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Last post 12 years ago by dubleuhb. 22 replies replies.
local lawsuit pre superbowl
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TMCTLT Offline
#1 Posted: Mon, Jan 9 2012, 8:17 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
So it seems a number of hotels in Indy are being accused of under paying or simply not paying hotel workers for all hours they've worked. The suit will be in a Federal court. Now my question is this, while I do not condone this type of behavior by the hotel industry, the clients in this lawsuit are ALL Latino and None speak English (an interpreter will be needed throughout). My question /comment is this...If they're not legal citizens ( and YES this should matter) then they should Not be able to hold a job here in the first place and most certainly should not be allowed to bring about lawsuits in a US Federal court. Funny thing is, it's become politically incorrect to even mention their status regarding citizenship....Who's paying for all this chit?
tailgater Offline
#2 Posted: Mon, Jan 9 2012, 8:31 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I assume you mean "if they're not here legally". A lot of people are not "legal citizens" yet have come here through the proper channels.

If they are indeed illegal, then the hotels themselves should be punished for hiring them.
HockeyDad Offline
#3 Posted: Mon, Jan 9 2012, 8:36 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
Flyover state housekeeping outrage!
TMCTLT Offline
#4 Posted: Mon, Jan 9 2012, 8:44 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
tailgater wrote:
I assume you mean "if they're not here legally". A lot of people are not "legal citizens" yet have come here through the proper channels.

If they are indeed illegal, then the hotels themselves should be punished for hiring them.



I guess you didn't read my full post....yes of course that's what I meant.
wheelrite Offline
#5 Posted: Mon, Jan 9 2012, 8:56 AM EST
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
White Broads rarely clean their own homes..

They pay Pedro's wife under the table to do it...
z6joker9 Offline
#6 Posted: Mon, Jan 9 2012, 8:57 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2011
Posts: 5,902
The way I see it- if you live in another country, you should be afforded some sort of protection. If you're going to draw a line on what protection is given to a non-citizen, where do you put it?

And the courts want no part in checking for citizenship for every case, especially if it doesnt matter. Could you imagine the extra paperwork? The waste in taxpayer dollars?

If you lived in another country, possibly even as a citizen, but appeared to be foriegn to the locals, would you want to be required to prove your legal right to be there several times a day, to anyone that deemed you suspect?

The assumption is that they were legally working, which is the responsibility of the hotel. A separate organization can investigate and bring charges against the hotel, and may still do so.

Just quick thoughts typed on a phone.
TMCTLT Offline
#7 Posted: Mon, Jan 9 2012, 8:59 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
wheelrite wrote:
White Broads rarely clean their own homes..

They pay Pedro's wife under the table to do it...




Sounds like the voice of experience there Wheel.......I thought you only had Pedro....got the wife too?
tailgater Offline
#8 Posted: Mon, Jan 9 2012, 10:06 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
TMCTLT wrote:
I guess you didn't read my full post....yes of course that's what I meant.


Actually, I DID read your full post.
I figured that's what you meant, but you make the same technical mistake more than once so I just wanted to be certain.
rfenst Offline
#9 Posted: Mon, Jan 9 2012, 11:46 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
z6joker9 wrote:
The way I see it- if you live in another country, you should be afforded some sort of protection. If you're going to draw a line on what protection is given to a non-citizen, where do you put it?

And the courts want no part in checking for citizenship for every case, especially if it doesnt matter. Could you imagine the extra paperwork? The waste in taxpayer dollars?

If you lived in another country, possibly even as a citizen, but appeared to be foriegn to the locals, would you want to be required to prove your legal right to be there several times a day, to anyone that deemed you suspect?

The assumption is that they were legally working, which is the responsibility of the hotel. A separate organization can investigate and bring charges against the hotel, and may still do so.

Just quick thoughts typed on a phone.


There are certain minimum standards that all people who are in the USA are entitled to regardless of their legal status. if these workers were working illegally, they should be paid the greater of the law or what they were promised. If they are here illegally, deport them. The hotel, if complicit in any illegality, should be penalized. I just don't like the possibility of any U.S business benefiting from knowingly employing illegal workers by not paying or under-paying them- and then getting away with it because the workers won't come forward out of fear of deportation.
HockeyDad Offline
#10 Posted: Mon, Jan 9 2012, 1:07 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
rfenst wrote:
There are certain minimum standards that all people who are in the USA are entitled to regardless of their legal status. if these workers were working illegally, they should be paid the greater of the law or what they were promised. If they are here illegally, deport them. The hotel, if complicit in any illegality, should be penalized. I just don't like the possibility of any U.S business benefiting from knowingly employing illegal workers by not paying or under-paying them- and then getting away with it because the workers won't come forward out of fear of deportation.




Yo take all the fun out of hiring "undocumented Democrats".
DrMaddVibe Offline
#11 Posted: Mon, Jan 9 2012, 1:59 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498



SCORCHED

ILLEGAL

POLICY

OUTRAGE!!!
tailgater Offline
#12 Posted: Mon, Jan 9 2012, 2:25 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
rfenst wrote:
There are certain minimum standards that all people who are in the USA are entitled to regardless of their legal status. if these workers were working illegally, they should be paid the greater of the law or what they were promised. If they are here illegally, deport them. The hotel, if complicit in any illegality, should be penalized. I just don't like the possibility of any U.S business benefiting from knowingly employing illegal workers by not paying or under-paying them- and then getting away with it because the workers won't come forward out of fear of deportation.


If the worker is here illegally, then they shouldn't be due anything.
Sure, the hotel may have screwed them out of some promised wages, but by applying for a job without at least a work visa, the worker is lying to the hotel to begin with.

I agree with dealing with both the illegal and the employer.
HockeyDad Offline
#13 Posted: Mon, Jan 9 2012, 2:42 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
We need to grant amnesty to the employer so they can refill the job with a legal worker.

Amnesty now!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#14 Posted: Mon, Jan 9 2012, 2:48 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
HockeyDad wrote:
We need to grant amnesty to the employer so they can refill the job with a legal worker.

Amnesty now!



He should be able to qualify for some sort of stimulus too!Angel
HockeyDad Offline
#15 Posted: Mon, Jan 9 2012, 2:49 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
If the upgrade the washers and dryers, I think they can get a "green" credit from the Department of Energy.
DrafterX Offline
#16 Posted: Mon, Jan 9 2012, 3:26 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
what's the upgrade from Latinos..?? Huh
HockeyDad Offline
#17 Posted: Mon, Jan 9 2012, 3:43 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
DrafterX wrote:
what's the upgrade from Latinos..?? Huh


Canadian
rfenst Offline
#18 Posted: Mon, Jan 9 2012, 4:48 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
tailgater wrote:
If the worker is here illegally, then they shouldn't be due anything.
Sure, the hotel may have screwed them out of some promised wages, but by applying for a job without at least a work visa, the worker is lying to the hotel to begin with.

I agree with dealing with both the illegal and the employer.


Why should the hotel profit by not paying, even if the worker was illegally employed w/o the employer's knowledge? On the other hand, why should the employee benefit by working illegally (and possibly lying or providing fraudulent documents)?

It just seems to me that the agreement is labor for pay.

How about pay them for their labor and seize their pay as part of the penalty for working illegally and for the cost of detention and deportation?


This is really another important social policy issue- with no empirically right answer.
DrafterX Offline
#19 Posted: Mon, Jan 9 2012, 5:25 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
I worked for a couple of the high end hotel chains when I was younger... was very common to see Imigration loading up a bus with housekeepers and and yard guys and stuff... they'd be back in less than a week... Mellow
tailgater Offline
#20 Posted: Tue, Jan 10 2012, 9:50 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
rfenst wrote:
Why should the hotel profit by not paying, even if the worker was illegally employed w/o the employer's knowledge? On the other hand, why should the employee benefit by working illegally (and possibly lying or providing fraudulent documents)?

It just seems to me that the agreement is labor for pay.

How about pay them for their labor and seize their pay as part of the penalty for working illegally and for the cost of detention and deportation?


This is really another important social policy issue- with no empirically right answer.



Bottom line is that BOTH parties should be penalized.

Reality is that neither will be. At least not sufficiently.

That's why it becomes such an emotionally charged and polarizing issue.
If people and businesses were fairly punished for abusing the system, then this would be a non-issue.
Nobody cries about an offensive lineman holding a would-be tackler if they are issued a 10 yard penalty. It's only when they get away with the holding that it becomes an issue.
FuzzNJ Offline
#21 Posted: Tue, Jan 10 2012, 10:12 AM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
tailgater wrote:
Bottom line is that BOTH parties should be penalized.

Reality is that neither will be. At least not sufficiently.

That's why it becomes such an emotionally charged and polarizing issue.
If people and businesses were fairly punished for abusing the system, then this would be a non-issue.
Nobody cries about an offensive lineman holding a would-be tackler if they are issued a 10 yard penalty. It's only when they get away with the holding that it becomes an issue.


heh, fairness.
dubleuhb Offline
#22 Posted: Tue, Jan 10 2012, 1:42 PM EST
Joined: 03-20-2011
Posts: 11,350
Do they have ID's ?
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