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We should at least get a free car with that payment..

I thought of this very thing when the Tim Thomas thread came up and he was called unpatriotic. I'm sure we will have a rational explanation later that details how he didn't really say that.

Isn't the debt clock over 15 trillion now?

15.296 trillion and counting!

Hope and change, what a joke!

It's NEW money!!!!

Technically, 11.9 trillion is what Obama started at.

Yeah, facts don't matter.

Just curious Fuzz where did you get your number?

From the treasury site I see Bush started at end of Jan 2001 with 5.7 trillion, left Jan 2009 with 10.6 trillion; debt as of Dec 2011 was 15.2 trillion. Based on that Obama did in 3 years what it took Bush 8 years to accomplish. Bush spent like a drunken sailor and I make no excuses for that, but Obama has taken spending to another level.

September 2009, end of the budget year that Bush signed.

WHA???


Oh, HELLZ No...you can't bring up that word with HockeyDad's man B!


NOBODY PUTS A BUDGET ON B...NOBODY!

What are you some racist?

How rude of me...good afternoon, Fuzz. You just waking up from last night's free food coma at the charity event?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jukQX2pl2Q

Free?!

I assume it's the Mo Money skit...

The skit with Evangelist Ed Cash (Damon Wayans) and Reverend Carl Pathos (Jim Carrey) is also a good one

No, he's responsible for the stimulus, Bush for the bank bailouts.

First over 1/3 of the $800 billion stimulus was tax breaks, the majority revenue loss wouldn't have shown up until the next year.

The other third is spent on loans or new projects and spent over time, even now, so not all was spent right away and again.

The last third on entitlements.

In all it is expected to cost around $80billion/year over the next ten years, which is how it was budgeted. So certainly he had that supplimental, but it didn't add $1.5 or so trillion right away.

Do I even have to say I diagree with your line of thought? Putting that aside and assuming we follow your logic, Obama "started" with 11.9 trillion. Based on Obama's 2012 budget, the CBO estimated the debt in 2017 would be just over 22 trillion. So Bush added roughly 6 trillion and Obama will add 10 trillion if he serves another term.

Now we like cbo estimates for the future? Clinton's surplus is dismissed because of estimates when he actually had surplusses the last two years in office.

Suplimental spending, like the stimulus, endorsed and pushed for by Obama is his responsibility, there is no question about that. It didn't all show up in the budget before the end of the fiscal year though, nor does it account for the increase in the debt from Feb-Sept alone. I suppose we could count every cent spent on the prescription drug benefit, tax cuts, and the two wars should be credited to Bush since we are still spending more money today from those decisions too should we want to use your logic that Obama is responsible for a budget he didn't create, sign or support.

I have no problem with Obama's administration being responsible for their spending. I do when Republicans push the blame for the recent increases in debt on Obama, especially when the numbers just don't add up.

I don't think you are reading my posts correctly. I never blamed Bush for all, I never excused Obama, I objected to inflating Obama's numbers. The increase in debt from Jan 2009 to September is over 1.5 trillion. Even if the stimulus is added to the debt immediatly it would account for only 1/2 of that number, but again it isn't, it's budgeted over 10 years.

Of course the debt is too large, no question, but this problem goes back 30 years. It's the DC mentality, not any particular President. Every single one has added to the debt, some more than others, I understand that. Obama is just the latest and greatest to do it, but the next 3 are Reagan, Bush and Bush who raised the debt around 900%

"Federal debt began the 20th century at less than 10 percent of GDP. It jerked above 30 percent as a result of World War I and then declined in the 1920s to 16.3 percent by 1929. Federal debt started to increase after the Crash of 1929, and rose above 40 percent in the depths of the Great Depression."

"Federal debt exploded during World War II to over 120 percent of GDP, and then began a decline that bottomed out at 32 percent of GDP in 1974. Federal debt almost doubled in the 1980s, reaching 60 percent of GDP in 1990 and peaking at 66 percent of GDP in 1996, before declining to 56 percent in 2001. Federal debt started increasing again in the 2000s, reaching 70 percent of GDP in 2008. Then it exploded in the aftermath of the Crash of 2008, reaching 102 percent of GDP in 2011."

"Federal debt has breached 100 percent of GDP twice since 1900: during World War II and in the aftermath of the Crash of 2008."

Edit: Clinton's cbo projection is dismissed as incorrect, but Obama's is correct. Simply can't have it both ways. Projections are based on the situation and policies now, those can change. They obviously did when W. took over and the projections were ammended. Raising taxes won't fix all of it, cutting spending won't either, it requires a comprehensive approach and the politics of the moment do not allow for that. Obama has proposed a more comprehensive approach, the Republicans just want spending cuts, but haven't come up with anything that will save any real money, they just bring up projects they have always hated that amount to nothing in comparison to the entire budget.

How is it different and what point are you trying to make? Debt is worse to have now? Easier to run up now? Harder to run up now? How does that difference you claim effect debt?

When?

That's why our GDP grew barely 2% in 2011 and China's grew 9%..[/quote]

What is why? Economy is growing slower during a recession is because why? The debt is larger?

We are almost at the point of no return..[/quote]

You're saying a lot of words, but not putting any of the concepts together. Sounds just like repeating talking points without anything to back them up.

Most likely he didn't mean what he said, we are all to stupid to grasp his intellect...

What the hell? The budget runs to September. 9 months on the old budget with whatever other non-budget funding they push for and get. How is that trying to have it both ways? The budget isn't thrown out either.

Now as far as the original post is concerned, it's obvious that, according to this statement, that Obama would be unpatriotic, as he set it up. I don't think any president is unpatriotic for this reason though.

Whazzup Waterhead?????


Ron

Well last time he proposed one I believe exactly ZERO democrats voted for it.

This way he can say he did none of the spending, it will be all of the Republicans fault because they hold the purse strings.