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Last post 12 years ago by RICKAMAVEN. 33 replies replies.
Netanyahu Tells Obama Israel May Attack Iran Alone if Necessary
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RICKAMAVEN Offline
#1 Posted: Tue, Mar 6 2012, 6:04 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248

Monday 5 March 2012
by: Lesley Clark and Jonathan S. Landay, McClatchy Newspapers | Report
Washington - Highlighting their different views of the threat posed by Iran's nuclear program, President Barack Obama insisted Monday that diplomacy still has time to halt the effort, while Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reasserted Israel's right to take unilateral military action, saying the Jewish state must remain "the master of its fate."

Obama spent two hours in discussion with Netanyahu that was dominated by the crisis over the nuclear program that Iran claims is for peaceful purposes and that the United States, Israel and other powers charge is covertly developing the capability to build nuclear weapons.

A new report by a former U.N. nuclear inspector said that it is unlikely that Iran will move to build a warhead this year. But the report added that Iran could now build a crude bomb and that only a "negotiated long-term diplomatic resolution" can ensure that it doesn't break out of the international treaty designed to halt the spread of nuclear arms.

Speaking with reporters before their talks, Obama and Netanyahu were more relaxed with each other compared to their last meeting, in May 2011, when Obama sat silently as Netanyahu sternly rejected a U.S. plan to revive stalled Israeli-Palestinian peace talks.

Yet Netanyahu left no doubt about the seriousness of Monday's talks. Looking directly at Obama, he reiterated Israel's right to take unilateral military action against Iran's nuclear facilities, which the Jewish state — estimated to have several hundred nuclear warheads of its own that it refuses to acknowledge officially — views as an existential threat.

He didn't once refer to international sanctions aimed at compelling Iran to comply with U.N. demands to suspend uranium enrichment — which produces fuel for reactors and bombs — or European-led diplomatic efforts aimed at trading a halt to the program for financial and other incentives.

"Israel must have the ability always to defend itself by itself against any threat," Netanyahu said. "After all, that's the very purpose of the Jewish state: to restore to the Jewish people control over our destiny. And that's why my supreme responsibility is to ensure that Israel remains the master of its fate."

He was expected to repeat that theme in an evening speech to the annual policy conference of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, an influential pro-Israel lobbying group.

Addressing the 13,000 conference attendees on Sunday, Obama insisted that he wouldn't hesitate to use force to stop Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon, although he thinks there's time yet for economic sanctions and diplomacy to bring Iran to terms before resorting to force. He also said that he is not pursuing a containment policy, the approach the United States used for decades to check the influence of the nuclear-armed Soviet Union.

As he and Netanyahu sat next to each other Monday in straight-backed chairs in the Oval Office, Obama repeated those positions, as well as U.S. concerns that a nuclear-armed Iran would spark an arms race in the oil-rich Middle East, and he raised the possibility of Tehran slipping a warhead to a terrorist group.

"That's why we have worked so diligently to set up the most crippling sanctions ever with respect to Iran," Obama said. "We do believe that there is still a window that allows for a diplomatic resolution to this issue, but ultimately the Iranians' regime has to make a decision to move in that direction, a decision that they have not made thus far."

Netanyahu told Obama that Iran sees no difference between the United States and Israel.

"For them, you are the Great Satan, we're the Little Satan. For them we are you and you are us," he said.

It was clear, however, that Obama wants to avoid using military force, concerned that striking Iran's nuclear facilities wouldn't terminate its program and would trigger Iranian retaliation, such as blockading petroleum shipments through the Persian Gulf, which would deal a blow to the still-shaky global economy.

He said that he would continue working "on the diplomatic front" to tighten sanctions that the U.S. says are beginning to hurt Iran seriously, creating a hard currency shortage that has interrupted the oil sales on which the Iranian economy depends and forcing a devaluation of Iran's currency.

A senior White House official, who insisted on anonymity to discuss the talks, said the U.S. assessment is that Iran doesn't yet have the ability to assemble a warhead. Tehran would first have to expel U.N. International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors before proceeding, which would alert the international community, he said.

The Israelis, however, fear that Iran is entering a "zone of immunity" beyond which its nuclear facilities will be too heavily defended for Israel to destroy, and they think that only the U.S. military has the ability to take them out.

"The U.S. sees that we have time, we have superior military capabilities, we have time to see if sanctions play themselves out," said David Makovsky of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, a pro-Israel think tank. "The Israeli fear is that you might not know if they convert" their facilities from producing low-enriched uranium to producing the highly enriched uranium required for a bomb.

In his new report, former U.N. nuclear inspector David Albright of the Institute for Science and International Security said that Iran already has the ability to make highly enriched uranium and a crude nuclear weapon.

But, the report continued, sanctions, covert intelligence operations and intense international scrutiny of the Iranian program have dissuaded Tehran from building a warhead, and it is "unlikely" to do so in 2012 "in large part because it will remain deterred from doing so."

Only "a negotiated long-term resolution" can ensure that Iran doesn't build nuclear weapons, the report said. It called for a combination of tougher sanctions and "creative diplomatic methods of achieving a compromise," such as reviving a proposal to freeze sanctions in return for Iran freezing uranium enrichment.
HockeyDad Offline
#2 Posted: Tue, Mar 6 2012, 6:31 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
"Israel May Attack Iran Alone if Necessary"


Good for them.......go for it.

(but don't come looking for handouts before and after)
wheelrite Offline
#3 Posted: Tue, Mar 6 2012, 6:56 PM EST
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
They should Nuke Palestine while they're at it...
HockeyDad Offline
#4 Posted: Tue, Mar 6 2012, 7:05 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
wheelrite wrote:
They should Nuke Palestine while they're at it...


That would take out 500,000+ Jews in the West Bank settlements.
wheelrite Offline
#5 Posted: Tue, Mar 6 2012, 7:13 PM EST
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
HockeyDad wrote:
That would take out 500,000+ Jews in the West Bank settlements.


Tactical Nukes...
or maybe that neat Neutron Bomb we've been waiting to use.

That would keep the Medrassa's and Terrorist Training Camps intact. They could be converted to Synagogue Schools.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#6 Posted: Tue, Mar 6 2012, 8:19 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,554
All hat no cattle.

They won't do a damn thing...especially with B in the White House. Why he'd probably bow in front of Assad to make up for the attack or some other silly B$...he's already supported the Arab Spring and we see how the stability of that region is doing.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#7 Posted: Wed, Mar 7 2012, 11:03 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
wheelrite 5

synagogue schools are called yeshivas.

don't you have any jewish friends?
Buckwheat Offline
#8 Posted: Wed, Mar 7 2012, 11:18 AM EST
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
wheelrite wrote:
They should Nuke Palestine while they're at it...


That would be like Manhattan nuking Brooklyn or Minneapolis nuking Saint Paul. (A little too close for comfort.)

Hell they don’t even need a reason to raise gas prices these days. I bet gas would go to $10+ per gallon in less than a day after Israel makes a move in the region?
bloody spaniard Offline
#9 Posted: Wed, Mar 7 2012, 11:18 AM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
The confused opportunist McLame, jowly Lindsay Grahamcrackers and the "wise & highly religious" Lieberman want the bombing of Syria AND war with Iran!!! If it's good enough for those idiots it's good enough for me!!! Drool


Buckwheat, you could be right but I think that there will eventually be some sort of legislation that will put a leash on scummy oil speculators. Perhaps demanding that they risk more (larger fees/deposits up front) before they place their bets...
daveincincy Offline
#10 Posted: Wed, Mar 7 2012, 12:45 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2006
Posts: 20,033
"Israel must have the ability always to defend itself by itself against any threat," Netanyahu said. "After all, that's the very purpose of the Jewish state: to restore to the Jewish people control over our destiny. And that's why my supreme responsibility is to ensure that Israel remains the master of its fate."

I'm all for a country defending itself, but the restoring "control over our destiny" and remaining "the master of its fate" seems a bit Think ...I'm trying to find the right word to describe it. I guess I'm looking at it from a "Christian" perspective with little knowledge of the Jewish religion. If I am attempting to control my destiny, and feel I am the master of my fate, working (by my own account) to reach some ultimate goal, that's me saying, "hey, God, I know you're sovereign and all, and have this great plan for me, and that's really cool and stuff...but I got this."

Then there are plenty of verses in the bible on "destiny" and "fate." Trying to control either usually leads to the same place...death (a physical and/or spiritual death?). "when I called, you did not answer; when I spoke, you did not listen or obey. But you did what was evil in My eyes, and you chose that in which I did not delight."

I'm not arguing. I'm not trying to stir the pot. I hardly follow politics...I rarely "read all that," especially long cut/pastes.

Carry on...
bloody spaniard Offline
#11 Posted: Wed, Mar 7 2012, 1:07 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
I never read c&p either, Dave. I think that you're waaaaay overthinking this though.

We conveniently forget that God doesn't micromanage so we tend to blame Him for every misshap. We are given the free will to navigate our way through this morass we call life. In this case, the Jews need to protect themselves by striking first even though their survival & eventual victory is guaranteed by the Holy Book. If this means that their survival is guaranteed by men's decisions for a preemptive strike, so be it. I can't question the Lord's modus operandi. However, Iran has brought it on themselves through verbal provocation and covert operations throughout the region.

I am against American involvement however UNLESS there is a chance that Israel may lose on account of vast overwhelming numbers and/or Russian/Turkish involvement. In that case, WWIII here we come. That should make the clueless armchair hawks (mostly neocons) happy & fulfill scripture.
HockeyDad Offline
#12 Posted: Wed, Mar 7 2012, 1:31 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
bloody spaniard wrote:
If this means that their survival is guaranteed by men's decisions for a preemptive strike, so be it. I can't question the Lord's modus operandi.



NEW SLOGAN:

The US military industrial complex.......enabling the doing of the Lord's will!
daveincincy Offline
#13 Posted: Wed, Mar 7 2012, 2:28 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2006
Posts: 20,033
bloody spaniard wrote:
I never read c&p either, Dave. I think that you're waaaaay overthinking this though.

We conveniently forget that God doesn't micromanage so we tend to blame him for every misshap. We are given the free will to navigate our way through this morass we call life. In this case, the Jews need to protect themselves by striking first even though their survival & eventual victory is guaranteed by the Holy Book. If this means that their survival is guaranteed by men's decisions for a preemptive strike, so be it. I can't question the Lord's modus operandi. However, Iran has brought it on themselves through verbal provocation and covert operations throughout the region.

I am against American involvement however UNLESS there is a chance that Israel may lose on account of vast overwhelming numbers and/or Russian/Turkish involvement. In that case, WWIII here we come. That should make the clueless armchair hawks (mostly neocons) happy & fulfill scripture.


I tend to overthink things sometimes. Laugh

PM sent (sending)
Stinkdyr Offline
#14 Posted: Wed, Mar 7 2012, 2:56 PM EST
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
With whose $$?


Think


Oh, that's right. With our tax $$$$$$$$$$.
silly me, I forgot.
rfenst Offline
#15 Posted: Wed, Mar 7 2012, 4:09 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,431
Dave,

I too think that you are over-thinking this. More so, however, you are also analyzing this through "the lens" of your faith and that makes it "look" different to you than to others. Jews and Israel don't live their lives with a view to the Christian Bible and its prophecies of destiny.

Instead, Jews in believe in free will (with the exception being miracles- instances of divine intervention). That may be the reason for the paradox you seem to feel exists. It would explain the statements that you don't understand why were made.

Also, and just for the sake of thought the word "Israel" has several definitions. One is a "nick-name" for Jacob. Another is a people who are Jacob's "descendants" who are a "nation" (Jews). And, it is a country by another definition. Perhaps, this will help you in your studies of the Christian Bible and the paradox it seems to me you are stuck within. I don't mean to be telling you what to do and how to read your Holy Book; just offering something that maybe will help you.

rfenst
rfenst Offline
#16 Posted: Wed, Mar 7 2012, 4:12 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,431
bloody spaniard wrote:
Buckwheat, you could be right but I think that there will eventually be some sort of legislation that will put a leash on scummy oil speculators. Perhaps demanding that they risk more (larger fees/deposits up front) before they place their bets...


What about the times when speculation keeps the price of oil lower or at least predictable?
rfenst Offline
#17 Posted: Wed, Mar 7 2012, 4:25 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,431

Here is a factoid of interest to me when considering this thread. Sundown today is the beginning of the Jewish Festival Purim. Purim celebrates the saving of the ancient Jewish people living in Iran (Persia).
frankj1 Offline
#18 Posted: Wed, Mar 7 2012, 6:08 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,252
rfenst wrote:
Here is a factoid of interest to me when considering this thread. Sundown today is the beginning of the Jewish Festival Purim. Purim celebrates the saving of the ancient Jewish people living in Iran (Persia).

Queen Esther. Fairest lady in the land!
rfenst Offline
#19 Posted: Wed, Mar 7 2012, 6:34 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,431
frankj1 wrote:
Queen Esther. Fairest lady in the land!



Oh, once there was a wicked, wicked man
And Hamen was his name sir,
He would have murdered all the Jews,
Though they were not to blame sir

CHORUS:
Oh today, we'll merry, merry be
Oh today, we'll merry, merry be
Oh today, we'll merry, merry be
And nash some hamentashen

And Esther was the lovely queen
Of King Ahasuerus,
When Hamen said he'd kill us all,
Oh my how he did scare us

CHORUS

But Mordecai her cousin bold,
Said what a dreadfull chutzpah,
If guns were but invented now
This Hamen I would shoot sir

CHORUS

When Esther speaking to the King
Of Hamens plot made mention,
"Ha, ha" said he, " Oh no he won't.
I'll spoil his bad intention."

CHORUS

The guest of honor he shall be
This clever Mr. Smarty.
And high above us he shall swing,
At a little hanging party.

CHORUS

Of all his cruel and unkind ways,
This little joke did cure him,
And don't forget we owe him thanks,
for this jolly feast of Purim.

CHORUS
frankj1 Offline
#20 Posted: Wed, Mar 7 2012, 11:32 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,252
totally forgot about that song. Where's my gregor?
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#21 Posted: Thu, Mar 8 2012, 4:35 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
BOTTOM LINE

NO ONE GIVES A **** ABOUT THE JEWS EXCEPT THE JEWS.

NO ONE DID WHEN THEY WERE BEING GASSED BY THE MILLIONS.

NO ONE WILL GIVE A **** ABOUT THE NEXT POGROM
Buckwheat Offline
#22 Posted: Thu, Mar 8 2012, 8:28 AM EST
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
Is this the little girl I carried,
Is this the little boy at play?

I don't remember growing older,
When did they?

When did she get to be a beauty,
When did he grow to be so tall?

Wasn't it yesterday when they were small?

Sunrise, sunset,
Sunrise, sunset,
Swiftly flow the days.

Seedlings turn overnight to sunflowers,
Blossoming even as we gaze.

Sunrise, sunset,
Sunrise, sunset,
Swiftly fly the years,
One season following another,
Laiden with happiness and tears.

What words of wisdom can I give them,
How can I help to ease their way?

Now they must learn from one another,
Day by day.

They look so natural together.

Just like two newlyweds should be.

Is there a canopy in store for me?

Sunrise, sunset,
Sunrise, sunset,
Swiftly fly the years,
One season following another,
Laiden with happiness,
And tears Boo hoo!

Stinkdyr Offline
#23 Posted: Thu, Mar 8 2012, 10:22 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
RICKAMAVEN wrote:
BOTTOM LINE

NO ONE GIVES A **** ABOUT THE JEWS EXCEPT THE JEWS.

NO ONE DID WHEN THEY WERE BEING GASSED BY THE MILLIONS.

NO ONE WILL GIVE A **** ABOUT THE NEXT POGROM



Same for all tribes. No one cares about the Irish but the Irish, no one cares about the Inuit but the Inuit......Join the parade.

Beer
bloody spaniard Offline
#24 Posted: Thu, Mar 8 2012, 10:26 AM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
^^^Are you kidding?? Even Soledad O'Brien & Shaquille O'Neil brag about their Irish roots. Everybody wants to be Irish!
There's even an American MMA of Scottish blood who goes by the Irish Hand Grenade. LOL!!
Not so sure about the Inuit though.Think


RICKAMAVEN wrote:
BOTTOM LINE
NO ONE GIVES A **** ABOUT THE JEWS EXCEPT THE JEWS.
NO ONE DID WHEN THEY WERE BEING GASSED BY THE MILLIONS.
NO ONE WILL GIVE A **** ABOUT THE NEXT POGROM



I disagree.
Despite the the current regime's lukewarm support for Israel, this country is the ONLY real stalwart ally that the Jews have in the Middle East.
It's not only our tax money (approx. 3 billion/year), technology, and the sharing of "information". The American Christian community also sends Israel millions of dollars despite our poor economy in support of their homeless, sick, and elderly.
HockeyDad Offline
#25 Posted: Thu, Mar 8 2012, 10:50 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
Stinkdyr wrote:
Same for all tribes. No one cares about the Irish but the Irish, no one cares about the Inuit but the Inuit......Join the parade.

Beer



Everybody hates the French. It is my cross to bear.
bloody spaniard Offline
#26 Posted: Thu, Mar 8 2012, 10:52 AM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
HockeyDad wrote:
Everybody hates the French.



Not the Algerians!!! (in my best Jerry Lewis) Hey, Lady!!!
MACS Offline
#27 Posted: Thu, Mar 8 2012, 6:17 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,881
I just find it ironic that Rick is an admitted atheist, yet he always identifies himself as Jewish.

Judaism is a religion, sir... if you don't believe in God, can you be Jewish?
rfenst Offline
#28 Posted: Thu, Mar 8 2012, 6:32 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,431
MACS wrote:
I just find it ironic that Rick is an admitted atheist, yet he always identifies himself as Jewish.

Judaism is a religion, sir... if you don't believe in God, can you be Jewish?



Ethnically, "yes". Religiously, "no".

Interestingly, there is a supposed branch of Judaism- Humanistic Judaism- which does not believe in any god, let alone God. I'd like to exclude them from religious Judaism because the primary and central premise of Judaism is that God exists (and is the one and only god).

Here is a simple translation of Judaism's most important prayer/affirmation:

LISTEN, Israel (the people) the lord is our God. There is only one God.
bloody spaniard Offline
#29 Posted: Thu, Mar 8 2012, 6:44 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
I think of Jews as a multiracial ethnic group, much as the Hispanics (unless from Spain & that is changing...).

Hope Rick forgives me for speaking out of turn, but I believe that he is half Irish & since it's on his mother's side, he is just as much (if not more) gentile than gefilte.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#30 Posted: Fri, Mar 9 2012, 6:55 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
blood


my father's family all lived in county cork. my father was born in liverpool when his mother was on holiday there.

none of his brothers or sisters drank' my mother was bosrn in rochester. her father was russian abd her mother was hungarian.
Stinkdyr Offline
#31 Posted: Fri, Mar 9 2012, 8:02 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
RICKAMAVEN wrote:
blood


...

none of his brothers or sisters drank' my mother was bosrn in rochester. ......



I scan-read this first as, "none of his brothers or sisters drank from my mother's bosom in rochester....."

And I thought, wow, where is this story going?


Think
bloody spaniard Offline
#32 Posted: Fri, Mar 9 2012, 10:51 AM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
RICKAMAVEN wrote:
blood
my father's family all lived in county cork. my father was born in liverpool when his mother was on holiday there.
none of his brothers or sisters drank' my mother was bosrn in rochester. her father was russian abd her mother was hungarian.




Brick wall Now, it's coming back... Sorry, Rick. Don't be surprised if I address you as Barry when I speak to you next.

They say two things occur with old age:

1. Memory loss
2. I forgot what comes next

Brick wall
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#33 Posted: Fri, Mar 9 2012, 12:37 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
blood

the b in my name stands for Barry, like richard barry miller

and toby dell miller.

memory loss comes and goes and since i don't give a s h i t what i said yesterday,
memory is is not important to me.

please tell mac i have never said i was an atheist . never have been, and wouldn't
waste my time dwelling on the idea. i have explained my position on the god idea,
most god fearing religious people can't understand my explanation.


my fingers have lost the capacity to respond to my brain because the nerves are shot, the only
\feeling i have is the pain of a trigger finger that i plan on having repaired as soon as i can schedule
an appointment with my orthopedic doctor and my **** i n g eyes are getting so bad i am almost
at the point that i will type what i believe and if it's misspelled, too bad. most of the right wing
dingos on the board don't know what the hell i am tgalking about and i only postg to see what i
am thinking at the momen.

starting now i am not cxorretin what i typet
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