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Last post 11 years ago by dlandri21. 45 replies replies.
Why Roberts Did It
FuzzNJ Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
By Charles Krauthammer

It’s the judiciary’s Nixon-to-China: Chief Justice John Roberts joins the liberal wing of the Supreme Court and upholds the constitutionality of Obamacare. How? By pulling off one of the great constitutional finesses of all time. He managed to uphold the central conservative argument against Obamacare, while at the same time finding a narrow definitional dodge to uphold the law — and thus prevented the Court from being seen as having overturned, presumably on political grounds, the signature legislation of this administration.

Whatever one thinks of the substance of Bush v. Gore, it did affect the reputation of the Court. Roberts seems determined that there be no recurrence with Obamacare. Hence his straining in his Obamacare ruling to avoid a similar result — a 5–4 decision split along ideological lines that might be perceived as partisan and political.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/304332/why-roberts-did-it-charles-krauthammer

So Chucky thinks that Roberts, stick with me here, Roberts, knowing that the court had a reputation for being political (unfairly, of course) deemed this legislation constitutional because he didn't want the court to appear to be too political, a political move, but the court doesn't deserve that reputation.

BRILLIANT!

ZRX1200 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,627
Why doesn't matter now does it.
FuzzNJ Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
ZRX1200 wrote:
Why doesn't matter now does it.


True. We're all dead. Game over man, game over.
pdxstogieman Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-04-2007
Posts: 5,219
This show is over. Time to change the channel to the one where conservatives all of a sudden pretend to give a crap about dead Mexicans.
HockeyDad Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
Dead Mexicans???

Obamacare didn't save them!
wheelrite Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
Dead Mexicans,
Loved their first Album...
rfenst Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
FuzzNJ wrote:
By Charles Krauthammer

It’s the judiciary’s Nixon-to-China: Chief Justice John Roberts joins the liberal wing of the Supreme Court and upholds the constitutionality of Obamacare. How? By pulling off one of the great constitutional finesses of all time. He managed to uphold the central conservative argument against Obamacare, while at the same time finding a narrow definitional dodge to uphold the law — and thus prevented the Court from being seen as having overturned, presumably on political grounds, the signature legislation of this administration.

Whatever one thinks of the substance of Bush v. Gore, it did affect the reputation of the Court. Roberts seems determined that there be no recurrence with Obamacare. Hence his straining in his Obamacare ruling to avoid a similar result — a 5–4 decision split along ideological lines that might be perceived as partisan and political.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/304332/why-roberts-did-it-charles-krauthammer

So Chucky thinks that Roberts, stick with me here, Roberts, knowing that the court had a reputation for being political (unfairly, of course) deemed this legislation constitutional because he didn't want the court to appear to be too political, a political move, but the court doesn't deserve that reputation.

BRILLIANT!




CK's opinion is asinine. To read in to any SCOTUS Justice's mind beyond what is written in their Opinion or they publicly state, is so incredibly speculative that it is not worth the paper it is written on. For better or worse, the legal decision has been made. CK should have just taken his lick and moved on with the rest of us.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
rfenst wrote:
CK's opinion is asinine. To read in to any SCOTUS Justice's mind beyond what is written in their Opinion or they publicly state, is so incredibly speculative that it is not worth the paper it is written on. For better or worse, the legal decision has been made. CK should have just taken his lick and moved on with the rest of us.



OR....


ZRX1200 wrote:
Why doesn't matter now does it.
teedubbya Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
It had to be his meds.
DrafterX Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
I heard Obama sent some guys in a limo sfter him.... Mellow
HockeyDad Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
The globalists got to him.

Welcome to Western Western Europe, bitches.
Kawak Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 11-26-2007
Posts: 4,025
I know this continues and guarantees years and years of lawyer/judge jokes! The pond scum proffesion has picked it up a notch!
rfenst Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
Kawak wrote:
I know this continues and guarantees years and years of lawyer/judge jokes! The pond scum proffesion has picked it up a notch!


Two weeks from now, nobody will be talking or thinking about about the Chief Justice's decision. If it is ever scrutinized or analyzed, it will be years from now in classrooms and symposiums on the history and/or legal development of the Commerce Claus, Tax Clause and the scope of the Judicial Branch's authority. I would expect there to be more talk of removing him from the bench by those who feel betrayed because they were counting on him for political and other non-legal reasons.
jojoc Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 03-05-2007
Posts: 6,272
rfenst wrote:
Two weeks from now, nobody will be talking or thinking about about the Chief Justice's decision. If it is ever scrutinized or analyzed, it will be years from now in classrooms and symposiums on the history and/or legal development of the Commerce Claus, Tax Clause and the scope of the Judicial Branch's authority. I would expect there to be more talk of removing him from the bench by those who feel betrayed because they were counting on him for political and other non-legal reasons.




they can talk all they want. Roberts may end up being the longest serving chief justice of all time. the power and beauty of lifetime appointment. Being appointed at age 50, he may beat Marshall's 34 year term.
FuzzNJ Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
jojoc wrote:
they can talk all they want. Roberts may end up being the longest serving chief justice of all time. the power and beauty of lifetime appointment. Being appointed at age 50, he may beat Marshall's 34 year term.


I don't see him having the stomach to hang on that long with all the political pressure on the court now.
jojoc Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 03-05-2007
Posts: 6,272
he will be there until he needs help moving his walker
FuzzNJ Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
jojoc wrote:
he will be there until he needs help moving his walker


Would make a cool bet if I didn't have the life expectancy of a caporegime who found Jesus.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
jojoc

CLARENCE THOMAS MUST BE IMPEACHED FIRST.
HockeyDad Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
^racist
pdxstogieman Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 10-04-2007
Posts: 5,219
HockeyDad wrote:
^racist


That's impossible. These forums are a pristine oasis of tolerance where racism is non-existent.
wheelrite Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
pdxstogieman wrote:
That's impossible. These forums are a pristine oasis of tolerance where racism is non-existent.


well said Honky..
rfenst Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
wheelrite wrote:
well said Honky..


What ever happened to all the yelling and screaming about the limited powers from the Commerce Clause being the controlling factor? Why isn't everyone screaming the Tax Clause has been misinterpreted and will be misused? Where are the shouts that SCOTUS Justices should be subject to term limits and/or retention/election? The sound of silence form all the "concerned " constitutionalists is deafening!
HockeyDad Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
rfenst wrote:
What ever happened to all the yelling and screaming about the limited powers from the Commerce Clause being the controlling factor? Why isn't everyone screaming the Tax Clause has been misinterpreted and will be misused? Where are the shouts that SCOTUS Justices should be subject to term limits and/or retention/election? The sound of silence form all the "concerned " constitutionalists is deafening!

'


It's constitutional, bitches.
rfenst Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
HockeyDad wrote:
'


It's constitutional, bitches.


What? I can't hear you!
wheelrite Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
rfenst wrote:
What? I can't hear you!


Well,

This decision was crap...
The merits or lack there of the Governments arguements were ignored . Roberts simply re-wrote the legislation from the bench...

He's a c#nt,,,
more concerned with his rep with the media than anything else...
rfenst Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
wheelrite wrote:
Well,

This decision was crap...
The merits or lack there of the Governments arguements were ignored . Roberts simply re-wrote the legislation from the bench...

He's a c#nt,,,
more concerned with his rep with the media than anything else...


Nice try...
wheelrite Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
rfenst wrote:
Nice try...


whatever...

teedubbya Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
It's no gore v bush that's for sure!
wheelrite Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
teedubbya wrote:
It's no gore v bush that's for sure!


Bush is back in style with the Porno chicks...
teedubbya Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
It's nice to see all the bright constitutional scholars in here flex their Abdullah ondumbgattos.
wheelrite Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
teedubbya wrote:
It's nice to see all the bright constitutional scholars in here flex their Abdullah ondumbgattos.


right,,,

all the modern ambulance chasers didn't study constitutional law in shyster school...

They learned Case Law, which is a crock....
teedubbya Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
You really believe yourself don't you?
wheelrite Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
teedubbya wrote:
You really believe yourself don't you?


no I believe in big chickens
teedubbya Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Much better. You like big cox.
wheelrite Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
teedubbya wrote:
Much better. You like big cox.


Wally Cox ?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
wheelrite wrote:
Well,

This decision was crap...
The merits or lack there of the Governments arguements were ignored . Roberts simply re-wrote the legislation from the bench...

He's a c#nt,,,
more concerned with his rep with the media than anything else...


Roberts switched his vote on the mandate

Amazing what happens while your internet connection gets wiped out, isn’t it. Today’s breaking news is that Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts originally voted to strike down the mandate in Obamacare, but then changed his mind and sided with the liberal members of the court. Or so CBS reports.

Chief Justice John Roberts initially sided with the Supreme Court’s four conservative justices to strike down the heart of President Obama’s health care reform law, the Affordable Care Act, but later changed his position and formed an alliance with liberals to uphold the bulk of the law, according to two sources with specific knowledge of the deliberations.
Roberts then withstood a month-long, desperate campaign to bring him back to his original position, the sources said. Ironically, Justice Anthony Kennedy – believed by many conservatives to be the justice most likely to defect and vote for the law – led the effort to try to bring Roberts back to the fold.

“He was relentless,” one source said of Kennedy’s efforts. “He was very engaged in this.”

But this time, Roberts held firm. And so the conservatives handed him their own message which, as one justice put it, essentially translated into, “You’re on your own.”

It’s a four page article with a lot to go through, but if you haven’t read it already, it’s probably worth your time. At least… maybe. This story may be true in its entirety, or at least in part, but there are a couple of things which have me holding back on it. First, it relies entirely on two “unnamed sources” which always throws up a red flag. And when it’s something this juicy regarding proceedings which are normally held closer to the vest than anything else in the nation, I have to wonder.

Second – as you’ll find out after you read through all the tawdry details – this is a dream story for CBS or anyone looking to derail conservatives. It’s got all the elements of a Victorian bodice-ripper: alliances, denials, betrayal, and most importantly it features prominent national conservative figures fighting with each other. The breathless entry about the rest of the “conservative justices” telling Roberts “you’re on your own” is the stuff of liberal journalistic legend.

When something looks too good to be true, it’s generally worth checking out further. But if it is, the conclusion the authors draw is stunning. The clear implication is that Roberts initially wanted to do away with the mandate but was reading the tea leaves of public opinion and abandoned his initial, principled stand under outside influence and out of a desire to maintain his reputation and that of the court. That’s a pretty serious charge.

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/07/01/report-roberts-switched-his-vote-on-the-mandate/
jojoc Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 03-05-2007
Posts: 6,272
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Roberts switched his vote on the mandate

Amazing what happens while your internet connection gets wiped out, isn’t it. Today’s breaking news is that Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts originally voted to strike down the mandate in Obamacare, but then changed his mind and sided with the liberal members of the court. Or so CBS reports.

Chief Justice John Roberts initially sided with the Supreme Court’s four conservative justices to strike down the heart of President Obama’s health care reform law, the Affordable Care Act, but later changed his position and formed an alliance with liberals to uphold the bulk of the law, according to two sources with specific knowledge of the deliberations.
Roberts then withstood a month-long, desperate campaign to bring him back to his original position, the sources said. Ironically, Justice Anthony Kennedy – believed by many conservatives to be the justice most likely to defect and vote for the law – led the effort to try to bring Roberts back to the fold.

“He was relentless,” one source said of Kennedy’s efforts. “He was very engaged in this.”

But this time, Roberts held firm. And so the conservatives handed him their own message which, as one justice put it, essentially translated into, “You’re on your own.”

It’s a four page article with a lot to go through, but if you haven’t read it already, it’s probably worth your time. At least… maybe. This story may be true in its entirety, or at least in part, but there are a couple of things which have me holding back on it. First, it relies entirely on two “unnamed sources” which always throws up a red flag. And when it’s something this juicy regarding proceedings which are normally held closer to the vest than anything else in the nation, I have to wonder.

Second – as you’ll find out after you read through all the tawdry details – this is a dream story for CBS or anyone looking to derail conservatives. It’s got all the elements of a Victorian bodice-ripper: alliances, denials, betrayal, and most importantly it features prominent national conservative figures fighting with each other. The breathless entry about the rest of the “conservative justices” telling Roberts “you’re on your own” is the stuff of liberal journalistic legend.

When something looks too good to be true, it’s generally worth checking out further. But if it is, the conclusion the authors draw is stunning. The clear implication is that Roberts initially wanted to do away with the mandate but was reading the tea leaves of public opinion and abandoned his initial, principled stand under outside influence and out of a desire to maintain his reputation and that of the court. That’s a pretty serious charge.

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/07/01/report-roberts-switched-his-vote-on-the-mandate/



Have not had a chance to read the article yet, but if there were actually two sources that leaked details about the deliberations, they can kiss their careers goodbye!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
Naw...they'll be editor in chiefs in no time now!


http://blog.heritage.org/2012/04/18/top-10-most-expensive-obamacare-taxes-and-fees/
dubleuhb Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 03-20-2011
Posts: 11,350
Guess we can no longer count on the SCOTUS to protect ''We the People'' from an overreaching, overbearing out of control government.
Bodes well for the takers, not so much for the makers.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
dubleuhb wrote:
Guess we can no longer count on the SCOTUS to protect ''We the People'' from an overreaching, overbearing out of control government.
Bodes well for the takers, not so much for the makers.



Just remember when the barbarian hordes stormed into Rome....
DrafterX Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Just remember when the barbarian hordes stormed into Rome....




Think
I'll have to ask Ram about that... a little before my time I think..... Mellow
rfenst Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349

1. Right now, given that the Court has issued its binding Opinion, the most important issue in all of this is that there may be one or more "leakers" in the SCOTUS. This could be disastrous as there are strong rules and customs of great magnitude, which are supposed to allow the Justices the freedom to speak and think openly, without outside criticism.

2. Any justice who voted for or against the mandate for any reason other than its "constitutionality" would be "legislating from the bench". Some times people think its good. Other times the same people think its bad. I think it has more to do with how the individual(s) feel about the ultimate decision and its impact. And, I just do not think it is possible to completely avoid or prohibit this- it is simply part of being human and human nature.

3. Roberts has absolutely nothing to gain from currying public favor. He has been appointed to the highest judicial position in the land for the rest of his life.

4. Every single case the SCOTUS takes up is re-considered from the perspective that the SCOTUS can do whatever it wants within the boundaries of the case and the law. It is not restricted to the issues the parties or the attorneys address or what the lower court(s) has/have decided. If, while looking at the case on appeal, the Justices see an issue of fact or law of concern, even if no one else realized it before the Court did, the SCOTUS is empowered to act as it sees fit. The fact that there are nine Justices tends to keep this on "even keel", where the Court only deviates under unique circumstances. Here, for better or for worse, the Court denounced institution of the plan under the "Commerce Clause", but found it constitutional under the "Tax Clause". Quite simply, this is how the Court works.

5. Lawrence Tribe, one of- if not the foremost authority on the U.S. Constitution- was one of Roberts' Law professors many years ago. During that time, Tribe was exploring and writing at length about the history and development of the "Tax Clause". Roberts was his assistant...

6. The history and nature of the court (and most juries) is a free-flowing "discussion/debate" with Justices swaying one another back and forth until all discussion about the case is exhausted. Then and only then is a final decision made by each Justice and the author of the Court's soon coming Opinion is appointed.

Hope this helps from bit from a historical perspective...
wheelrite Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
rfenst wrote:
1. Right now, given that the Court has issued its binding Opinion, the most important issue in all of this is that there may be one or more "leakers" in the SCOTUS. This could be disastrous as there are strong rules and customs of great magnitude, which are supposed to allow the Justices the freedom to speak and think openly, without outside criticism.

2. Any justice who voted for or against the mandate for any reason other than its "constitutionality" would be "legislating from the bench". Some times people think its good. Other times the same people think its bad. I think it has more to do with how the individual(s) feel about the ultimate decision and its impact. And, I just do not think it is possible to completely avoid or prohibit this- it is simply part of being human and human nature.

3. Roberts has absolutely nothing to gain from currying public favor. He has been appointed to the highest judicial position in the land for the rest of his life.

4. Every single case the SCOTUS takes up is re-considered from the perspective that the SCOTUS can do whatever it wants within the boundaries of the case and the law. It is not restricted to the issues the parties or the attorneys address or what the lower court(s) has/have decided. If, while looking at the case on appeal, the Justices see an issue of fact or law of concern, even if no one else realized it before the Court did, the SCOTUS is empowered to act as it sees fit. The fact that there are nine Justices tends to keep this on "even keel", where the Court only deviates under unique circumstances. Here, for better or for worse, the Court denounced institution of the plan under the "Commerce Clause", but found it constitutional under the "Tax Clause". Quite simply, this is how the Court works.

5. Lawrence Tribe, one of- if not the foremost authority on the U.S. Constitution- was one of Roberts' Law professors many years ago. During that time, Tribe was exploring and writing at length about the history and development of the "Tax Clause". Roberts was his assistant...

6. The history and nature of the court (and most juries) is a free-flowing "discussion/debate" with Justices swaying one another back and forth until all discussion about the case is exhausted. Then and only then is a final decision made by each Justice and the author of the Court's soon coming Opinion is appointed.


Hope this helps from bit from a historical perspective...


Tribe is an Ultra Lib Ivory Tower type. So he sux...
elk hunter Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 03-20-2009
Posts: 10,331
Correct me if I am wrong here...

I don't believe that it is the Supreme Court's job to MODIFY law... By doing this, they have in fact acted unconstitutionally....

Silly Supremes....
dlandri21 Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 07-31-2010
Posts: 334
There's no sense getting upset about something that won't work anyway.
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