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Last post 11 years ago by teedubbya. 31 replies replies.
CALL YOUR SENATOR!
ZRX1200 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,656
Upon the advice of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, President Obama has confirmed his intention to sign two controversial U.N. treaties --the Law of the Sea Treaty (LOST) and the so called "small arms" treaty.

Although many citizens and elected representatives are sounding the alarm about the small arms treaty, such as this entry Sunday at the Daily Paul, some political observers note that the treaty is unlikely to pass the Senate. But a very different scenario is developing for the Law of the Sea.

Twenty Republican senators are set to join with Democrats in upholding LOST. Some who are included in the list of 20 are those who have not yet decided how they will vote on the issue. Thus, the list of 20 includes those who have either declared support for LOST or declined to indicate their views on the subject one way or the other

In a breaking update, two of the 20 Republican senators have now indicated they will oppose the Law of the Sea Treaty. One political activist stated that it is important for citizens to call the offices of all 20 to make sure those Senators are on the record with their intent to vote against the treaty. McConnell and Toomey now state they will vote no.

The U.S. Constitution grants authority to presidents to enter into treaty agreements with other nations and entities. But due to the fact that a treaty, if approved, becomes the law of the land, the U.S. Senate must approve by an exact two-thirds majority rather than the simple supermajority of 60 votes. This means that 67 votes are needed in the Senate to approve a treaty.

Most political observers believe that all 53 Democrats in the Senate will vote to approve LOST. And if the 20 Republicans who have failed to indicate opposition to the treaty hold firm, the Senate will have more than the required 67 votes to pass.

The 20 Republicans who are apparently set to uphold the treaty, or who have not yet decided, are Enzi, McConnell, Hutchison, Toomey, Johanns, Ayotte, Graham, McCain, Lugar, Kirk, Snowe, Collins, Murkowski, Isakson, Grassley, Portman, Corker, Cochran, Brown, and Alexander.

This is a continually developing story that is changing on an hour by hour basis. For the latest information on who in the Senate has decided to oppose the treaty, consult late breaking articles here and here.

In 1983 President Ronald Reagan rejected LOST outright due to encroachments on U.S. sovereignty. Thus, the question arises as to why these 20 Republicans would be indicating support for a treaty that Reagan saw as an international attempt to usurp American sovereignty and thus supersede the U.S. Constitution.

The small arms treaty, on the other hand, is facing a much more difficult task in gaining the approval of the Senate. Although it is possible to muster 67 votes to approve, too many Democrats are facing reelection in states where gun rights are important. Democrats now have a 53 seat majority. Even if all of the Democrats voted in favor, 14 Republicans would have to join them in order for the measure to pass.

In an election year during a period of time in U.S. history when citizens have indicated in various ways that they oppose any more gun control in any form, it is difficult to imagine 14 Republicans voting in favor of such a treaty.

But as indicated by Forbes Magazine such assumptions are premature. Some senators are always loathe to oppose any treaty signed by a president for the fear of negatively impacting U.S. prestige on the international stage.

Thus, conservatives have sounded the alarm about the treaty to make sure citizens pressure their senators to vote no.

A look at some of the provisions of the treaty will reveal why many conservatives are alarmed. By international law all citizens in the United States would find it more difficult to purchase firearms due to tough registration and licensing requirements. The sale and private ownership of all semi-automatic firearms would be banned. And an international registry of gun owners would be created, which many gun rights enthusiasts view as a precursor to a worldwide ban on gun ownership.

Using the United Nations to enact strict gun control measures on Americans could be what Obama meant when he stated months ago that his administration is working on gun control "under the radar."
DrafterX Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,577
That Bassard..!! Mad
bloody spaniard Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Our Maryland senators take their marching orders from Mr. Executive Privilege but these treaties will never pass the House.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,552
Call them what?whip
HockeyDad Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
Outrage.
bloody spaniard Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
UN political eunuch outrage?
schusler Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 09-21-2010
Posts: 3,531

sent emails to them last week







http://dickmorris.rallycongress.com/7175/gun-control/

jojoc Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 03-05-2007
Posts: 6,272
I love articles that don't say anything!


so, just because Ronald thought it was a bad idea, I should call my senator to tell them to vote no on LOST? what exactly is it about LOST that I should be so upset about?
schusler Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 09-21-2010
Posts: 3,531
jojoc wrote:
I love articles that don't say anything!


so, just because Ronald thought it was a bad idea, I should call my senator to tell them to vote no on LOST? what exactly is it about LOST that I should be so upset about?


not sure on lost but on the arms treaty


On July 27th, the nations of the world are scheduled to meet in New York to sign a global Arms Trade Treaty (ATT). Disguised as a way to prevent the proliferation of small arms throughout the world, it is, in fact, a backdoor way to legislate gun control in the United States and effectively repeal our Second Amendment.

The ATT will set up a global body, which will require all nations to regulate firearms so that they can prevent their exportation to other countries. Inevitably, this will require countries to inventory the guns in private hands and to register them. A gun ban is not far away.

The ATT, under the Supremacy Clause of the US Constitution, would have the power of a constitutional amendment and would, effectively, repeal the Second Amendment guaranteeing us the right to bear arms. We must fight to stop the US from signing the treaty and, if we fail, block Senate ratification.
Brewha Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
I have been calling my Senator things for years, and it does not seem to help.
(Though I often feel better)
ZRX1200 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,656
Google Doug Bandow CEI LOST treaty its a quick PDF file.
jojoc Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 03-05-2007
Posts: 6,272
schusler wrote:
not sure on lost but on the arms treaty


On July 27th, the nations of the world are scheduled to meet in New York to sign a global Arms Trade Treaty (ATT). Disguised as a way to prevent the proliferation of small arms throughout the world, it is, in fact, a backdoor way to legislate gun control in the United States and effectively repeal our Second Amendment.

The ATT will set up a global body, which will require all nations to regulate firearms so that they can prevent their exportation to other countries. Inevitably, this will require countries to inventory the guns in private hands and to register them. A gun ban is not far away.

The ATT, under the Supremacy Clause of the US Constitution, would have the power of a constitutional amendment and would, effectively, repeal the Second Amendment guaranteeing us the right to bear arms. We must fight to stop the US from signing the treaty and, if we fail, block Senate ratification.


do you have authority for this interpretation of the Supremacy Clause? Basically, the purpose of the Supremacy Clause was to confirm that Federal Law is Supreme to State laws. It also confirms that Treaties are considered part of the body of Federal Law, along with statutes passed by congress. To my knowledge, there is nothing in the current interpretation of the Supremacy Clause that prevents the Supreme Court from striking down a law (or treaty) that otherwise violates the US Constitution.
jojoc Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 03-05-2007
Posts: 6,272
ZRX1200 wrote:
Google Doug Bandow CEI LOST treaty its a quick PDF file.


Have not read the PDF. My point was not so much about LOST itself as the poor writing of the article. If one of the points of the article is that I should take action to stop the passage of a law/treaty/etc., explain the basis of why I should do so other than "Ronald Reagan thought it was a bad idea"
schusler Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 09-21-2010
Posts: 3,531
schusler wrote:
not sure on lost but on the arms treaty


On July 27th, the nations of the world are scheduled to meet in New York to sign a global Arms Trade Treaty (ATT). Disguised as a way to prevent the proliferation of small arms throughout the world, it is, in fact, a backdoor way to legislate gun control in the United States and effectively repeal our Second Amendment.

The ATT will set up a global body, which will require all nations to regulate firearms so that they can prevent their exportation to other countries. Inevitably, this will require countries to inventory the guns in private hands and to register them. A gun ban is not far away.

The ATT, under the Supremacy Clause of the US Constitution, would have the power of a constitutional amendment and would, effectively, repeal the Second Amendment guaranteeing us the right to bear arms. We must fight to stop the US from signing the treaty and, if we fail, block Senate ratification.

jojoc wrote:
do you have authority for this interpretation of the Supremacy Clause? Basically, the purpose of the Supremacy Clause was to confirm that Federal Law is Supreme to State laws. It also confirms that Treaties are considered part of the body of Federal Law, along with statutes passed by congress. To my knowledge, there is nothing in the current interpretation of the Supremacy Clause that prevents the Supreme Court from striking down a law (or treaty) that otherwise violates the US Constitution.
I GUESS IF THEY AMEND THE CONSTITUTION THEN IT WOULDNT BE A VIOLATION.Brick wall
rfenst Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,415
jojoc wrote:
I love articles that don't say anything!


so, just because Ronald thought it was a bad idea, I should call my senator to tell them to vote no on LOST? what exactly is it about LOST that I should be so upset about?



What the hell is your problem? Obama wants it, therefore it is evil. You do not need to know what it is about- just make sure your legislator votes against it!!!
ZRX1200 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,656
Giving sovereignty to the UN.

Its simple.

HockeyDad Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
Eurocopter Tigre: coming to skies near you. We're here to help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgOG-8Xdhh8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi_tE2YxDDY
jojoc Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 03-05-2007
Posts: 6,272

schusler wrote:
not sure on lost but on the arms treaty


On July 27th, the nations of the world are scheduled to meet in New York to sign a global Arms Trade Treaty (ATT). Disguised as a way to prevent the proliferation of small arms throughout the world, it is, in fact, a backdoor way to legislate gun control in the United States and effectively repeal our Second Amendment.

The ATT will set up a global body, which will require all nations to regulate firearms so that they can prevent their exportation to other countries. Inevitably, this will require countries to inventory the guns in private hands and to register them. A gun ban is not far away.

The ATT, under the Supremacy Clause of the US Constitution, would have the power of a constitutional amendment and would, effectively, repeal the Second Amendment guaranteeing us the right to bear arms. We must fight to stop the US from signing the treaty and, if we fail, block Senate ratification.


schusler wrote:
I GUESS IF THEY AMEND THE CONSTITUTION THEN IT WOULDNT BE A VIOLATION.Brick wall



that was my question -- what is the authority to back up the position that approval of a treaty equals a constitutional amendment? there is nothing in the supremacy clause that states or causes that result.

the supremacy clause states:
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.

A treaty that violates the terms of the Constitution can be struck down just like "the Laws of the United States" can be struck.

So again, where is the authority that this treaty if affirmed by the Senate = a constitutional amendment. Per the Constitution, an amendment must pass both houses of congress by 2/3 and be ratified by 3/4 of the states. A treaty is ratified by the President, subject to the consent of 2/3 of the Senate - a much lower standard.

The claim that this Treaty if ratified will modify/amend the Constitution is BS scare tactics at its finest!
jojoc Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 03-05-2007
Posts: 6,272
rfenst wrote:
What the hell is your problem? Obama wants it, therefore it is evil. You do not need to know what it is about- just make sure your legislator votes against it!!!




LOL LOL
ZRX1200 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,656
So citizens should wait for the courts to do the right thing instead of trying to stop passage in the first place?

You have much more faith in the govt. than me.
jojoc Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 03-05-2007
Posts: 6,272
ZRX1200 wrote:
So citizens should wait for the courts to do the right thing instead of trying to stop passage in the first place?

You have much more faith in the govt. than me.


not saying that at all. just calling BS on the statement that this treaty will amend the constitution. it would no more amend the constitution than obamacare did.
wait..... maybe that's a bad illustration ....... ahhhh....nevermind, carry on!
ZRX1200 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,656
Oh ok. Gotcha.


engletl Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 12-26-2000
Posts: 26,493
Contacted all of my Reps & Sens about these and other concerns
tj2001cobra Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 08-05-2008
Posts: 28,561
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/peter-roff/2012/05/10/kill-the-law-of-the-sea-treaty


Kill the Law of the Sea Treaty

May 10, 2012 RSS Feed Print The Law of the Sea Treaty is a complex international agreement that's been around since Ronald Reagan was president. Its ostensible purpose is to define the rights and responsibilities of nations in their use of the world's oceans, establishing guidelines for businesses, the environment, and the management of marine natural resources.

Reagan objected to several of the treaty's provisions and refused to sign it without amendments changing it, but like a bad penny, it keeps turning up. In 1994 the United Nations attempted to move the ball down the field by creating an "Agreement on Implementation" that would address the concerns expressed by the United States and others. It didn't really make the treaty any better but President Bill Clinton signed it anyway. The U.S. Senate, however, has never, as the Constitution requires, voted to ratify it.

[See pictures of Navy SEALs]

The global governance crowd remains undeterred. The treaty may again see the light of day in the Senate, perhaps as early as next week. And this doesn't sit well with some people.

"One of the primary missions of the United States Navy for over two centuries has been to maintain freedom of the seas for all. As a Navy veteran, I am offended to think that the Senate and the Chief of Naval Operations would even consider ceding any part of that mission to the United Nations," said Colin Hanna, president of Let Freedom Ring—a nonpartisan organization where I am a senior fellow.

In reality the Law of the Sea Treaty is one more step towards a system of global governance under which U.S. sovereignty would be subordinated to an international system managed by an unelected, self-perpetuating form of bureaucratic aristocracy that cares little for democratic traditions. Which, Hanna suggests, is one of a series of reasons the Senate should continue to vote down efforts to ratify it.

[See pictures of Iran participating in War Games]

The Law of the Sea Treaty would do irreparable harm to U.S. military and intelligence operations and would force the United States to hand over proprietary technology to countries actively hostile to U.S. interests. It would also create a system for resolving disputes lying outside the jurisdiction of the U.S. legal system, leaving American citizens and businesses at the mercy of international tribunals whose members are not necessarily adherents to Western political or legal traditions and who may not hail from democratic nations.

The Law of the Sea Treaty, as previously mentioned, establishes a global bureaucracy that could leave U.S. businesses awash in a sea of destructive environmental regulations that would be costly and anticompetitive while these same bureaucrats handed out U.S. government money to give the economies of unfriendly countries a boost. The treaty would, Hanna says, impose global royalties and fees on American energy companies that will destroy U.S. jobs and make energy from traditional sources like natural gas and oil even more expensive. It might also embolden the military of countries like the People's Republic of China, who could use its language to justify a more aggressive posture in the South China Sea, while at the same time impeding the ability of the United States to interdict weapons of mass destruction being transported from one nation to another on the high seas.

[See pictures of U.S. military power in the Persian Gulf]

Finally, says Hanna, "There is no guarantee that the treaty will remain what it is at the time of ratification. Under its terms, its content can later be changed by an amendment process that does not require the approval of the United States government. This undermines U.S. sovereignty and, to put it bluntly, is unconstitutional."

The issue is not one that gets much attention while those who oppose it are often dismissed as raising concerns that lie outside the mainstream of American political belief. The treaty has the support of Massachusetts Democratic Sen. John F. Kerry, who chairs the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and Indiana Sen. Richard Lugar, the committee's ranking Republican, who was defeated Tuesday in his bid for renomination. Both men are the kind of internationalists who believe the United States needs to deepen its involvement in global affairs—not as the leader of the free world—but as a kind of first among equals which, history has shown, is not in the best long-term interests of the nation as a whole or the values upon which it was founded and continues to represent to the rest of the world.

Kerry and Lugar are thought by some to want to bring the treaty up, yet again, perhaps as a way to burnish their domestic and international credentials as potential secretaries of state in a second Obama administration. If they do, the Senate should reject it.

pdxstogieman Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 10-04-2007
Posts: 5,219
Gun's don't kill people. The Government does.
ZRX1200 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,656
http://www.thegunmag.com/un-releases-un-arms-trade-treaty-final-draft/
schusler Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 09-21-2010
Posts: 3,531
Got a letter back from Jo ann Emerson saying she is against the arms treaty.
Applause
ZRX1200 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,656
Another winner:

http://educate-yourself.org/lte/senatevoteparentalrightsbill31jul12.shtml
wheelrite Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
Untwist your knickers...

There is no way Americans will surrender their guns...

Regardless of any UN Treaty,,,
ZRX1200 Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,656
Bill don't be a ninny. Read.

How has this been always done?

In increments. This is a bigger one.

George Soros is also buying manufacturers and closing them.
teedubbya Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I hear Obama is trying to take away our chicken nuggets and stuff
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