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Last post 11 years ago by Philly Jack. 53 replies replies.
Poll Question : Are You Better Off Now than 4 Years Ago?
Choice Votes Statistics
Yes 16 35 %
No 29 64 %
Total 45 100%

2 Pages12>
Are You Better Off Now Than 4 Years Ago?
HockeyDad Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,213
The double-dip recession starts in January.
dpnewell Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
HockeyDad wrote:
The double-dip recession starts in January.


Yeap, and if Boo Boo Bear is re-elected, it will still be Bush's fault, as all his failed policies over the past 4 years are stellar.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,634
dpnewell wrote:
Yeap, and if Boo Boo Bear is re-elected, it will still be Bush's fault, as all his failed policies over the past 4 years are stellar.



http://www.cigarbid.com/...621384/Poor-Kenyan-King


whip
rfenst Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,476
HockeyDad wrote:
The double-dip recession starts in January.


Probably begins in November. Depends on who wins and what happens in Europe and China. Europe will highly likely drag us down. Oil price stability and cost will be very important factors inexorably connected with regional turmoil/revolution/war. Terrorism is another potentially strong factor. On the other hand, the dollar will strengthen and non-domestic cigar prices will continue to fall back slowly...
DrMaddVibe Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,634
rfenst wrote:
Probably begins in November. Depends on who wins and what happens in Europe and China. Europe will highly likely drag us down. Oil price stability and cost will be very important factors inexorably connected with regional turmoil/revolution/war. Terrorism is another potentially strong factor. On the other hand, the dollar will strengthen and non-domestic cigar prices will continue to fall back slowly...



Yeah...it's everyone else's fault we're in debt...they MADE us do it...a dollar strengthening? You'll soon need a wheelbarrow full to buy a loaf of bread.

DrMaddVibe Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,634
I don't know what those voting "Yes" are smoking or hooked up to...swallow whatever it is with some facts!





http://www.republican.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/multimedia?ID=921a7736-2ab5-40b9-a8bf-3ee4ffea32c9


http://www.republican.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/our-view?ID=e33a7a58-66d2-4491-91f6-aae703cdb370
rfenst Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,476
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Yeah...it's everyone else's fault we're in debt...they MADE us do it...a dollar strengthening? You'll soon need a wheelbarrow full to buy a loaf of bread.



Good morning.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,634
rfenst wrote:
Good morning.



It's a beautiful day to enslave the youth of America isn't it?Angel
jackconrad Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
Though i am not better off i am better on !
bloody spaniard Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
DrMaddVibe wrote:
I don't know what those voting "Yes" are smoking or hooked up to...swallow whatever it is with some facts!



What the $#%&*@! are you talking 'bout??? These folks are THRIVING:

bogus disability/unemployment/welfare + rich medicare & ss recipients
politicians
government employees
teachers' unions
pawnshops
repossession & foreclosure companies
Wall Street
Pharma
loansharks
street criminals
damage/accident lawyers
video game creators
Indian & other Third World IT support
nursing homes (average about 6K+ per month in DC area)
assisted living providers
professional athletes
petuli wearing, fecal bomb throwing, anarchists living at home

See? Opportunities abound!!Applause
chemyst Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 05-29-2006
Posts: 1,674
If Obama gets reelected, look for $8/gal gas
and a $30T debt load. See, today's debt at $16T
is HALF of $30T. He keeps his promise, in
retrospect.

Get these incompetent AMATEURS out of DC !!!!
teedubbya Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
cats living with dogs! the whole schmear
DrMaddVibe Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,634
teedubbya wrote:
cats living with dogs! the whole schmear



On bagels?

Oh how Kosher!Drool
Stinkdyr Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
Am I freer than I was 4 yrs ago?


Ah, no.

Not talking
bloody spaniard Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Stinkdyr wrote:
Am I freer than I was 4 yrs ago?

Ah, no.

Not talking



Why'd you get married?d'oh!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,634
bloody spaniard wrote:
What the $#%&*@! are you talking 'bout??? These folks are THRIVING:

bogus disability/unemployment/welfare + rich medicare & ss recipients
politicians
government employees
teachers' unions
pawnshops
repossession & foreclosure companies
Wall Street
Pharma
loansharks
street criminals
damage/accident lawyers
video game creators
Indian & other Third World IT support
nursing homes (average about 6K+ per month in DC area)
assisted living providers
professional athletes
petuli wearing, fecal bomb throwing, anarchists living at home

See? Opportunities abound!!Applause




Frying pan Frying pan Frying pan

How'd I miss this jewel!?!

Frying pan Frying pan Frying pan

Once again...ya forgot scrap yards!
bloody spaniard Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Nice scoop!Applause
...and add what I affectionately call (junk)yard sales.
victor809 Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I don't get it. I'm better off now than I was 4 years ago. This really has very little impact from the president.

My client company has more work for me than I'll be able to accomplish, I've managed to get out from under all my credit card debt I'd acquired from dating a high-maintenance girl on a biotech-startup salary. My condo has likely regained some of the value it had lost back when I'd initially considered putting it on the market, enough that I'll likely make a 75% profit off the sale.

I've got a job, it pays well, it will likely continue paying for a long time.
I constantly get offers for additional work in the area with different companies.
I'm not carrying any operating debt, and will likely have eliminated all debt in my life within the next few months.

I don't understand how so many people can be claiming to be worse off.
teedubbya Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I can understand why many are worse off if they lost jobs or downgraded out of necessity..... easily... its interesting that this population would get hit so hard though... doesn't seem statistically sound.... but you can see the poll yourself. its true.

my 401K is in much better shape. It was a 201K 4 years ago..... I remember that. Maybe everyone here pulled their retirement money out of the market in a panic, realized the loss then didn't reinvest until it was too late to recoup.
teedubbya Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
And the big O has nothing to do with nothin.... he's just playin with the band
dpnewell Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
victor809 wrote:
I don't get it. I'm better off now than I was 4 years ago. This really has very little impact from the president.

My client company has more work for me than I'll be able to accomplish, I've managed to get out from under all my credit card debt I'd acquired from dating a high-maintenance girl on a biotech-startup salary. My condo has likely regained some of the value it had lost back when I'd initially considered putting it on the market, enough that I'll likely make a 75% profit off the sale.

I've got a job, it pays well, it will likely continue paying for a long time.
I constantly get offers for additional work in the area with different companies.
I'm not carrying any operating debt, and will likely have eliminated all debt in my life within the next few months.

I don't understand how so many people can be claiming to be worse off.


I own and operate a small (2 employee) awning & canopy company. I've been in business for over 30 years. Before Obama, I've had maybe 3 down years, which where always followed by a stellar year that more then made up for it.

Although awnings, canopies, patio rooms, carports, etc., are nice to have on your home, they are not necessities. The bottom fell out of my industry right after the ‘08 elections, and the entire industry has stayed flat ever since. No one has ever seen it so bad. Folks are afraid to spend money, and I attribute that directly to Obama’s failed policies. My closing rate used to be in the 80% to 90% range. Now I’m lucky to close 20%, and I’m not losing jobs to competitors. It’s because folks decide they’re not doing the work “right now”, due to the economy. You have no idea how many times I’ve heard “we’re going with you, but, we’re going to hold off right now. Maybe next year, or the year after.”

Folks who’s businesses and/or jobs rely on the general public are the ones taking the hit. Government jobs, or companies that rely on government are doing just fine (for now). Guess I should have closed down back in ‘08 and gotten under Obama’s cone of protection (i.e. gone to work for the government, GM or Wall Street).
HockeyDad Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,213
dpnewell wrote:
Guess I should have closed down back in ‘08 and gotten under Obama’s cone of protection (i.e. gone to work for the government, GM or Wall Street).



Nooooow you figure it out!
victor809 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
dpnewell wrote:
I own and operate a small (2 employee) awning & canopy company. I've been in business for over 30 years. Before Obama, I've had maybe 3 down years, which where always followed by a stellar year that more then made up for it.

Although awnings, canopies, patio rooms, carports, etc., are nice to have on your home, they are not necessities. The bottom fell out of my industry right after the ‘08 elections, and the entire industry has stayed flat ever since. No one has ever seen it so bad. Folks are afraid to spend money, and I attribute that directly to Obama’s failed policies. My closing rate used to be in the 80% to 90% range. Now I’m lucky to close 20%, and I’m not losing jobs to competitors. It’s because folks decide they’re not doing the work “right now”, due to the economy. You have no idea how many times I’ve heard “we’re going with you, but, we’re going to hold off right now. Maybe next year, or the year after.”

Folks who’s businesses and/or jobs rely on the general public are the ones taking the hit. Government jobs, or companies that rely on government are doing just fine (for now). Guess I should have closed down back in ‘08 and gotten under Obama’s cone of protection (i.e. gone to work for the government, GM or Wall Street).



Ever think it could have to do with the housing market?
I could think of a number of trends that would impact awning companies which have nothing to do with the president....

The new housing construction has been abysmal for a while (way back to bush), fewer new houses means fewer houses that may potentially need awnings.

Current construction sales is just barely starting to make a come-back. Again, change of ownership would be a factor in driving upgrades like that.

There's a trend towards city living, away from suburbs. More people buy condos, that lowers the percentage of population in need of awnings.

Anyway, it's your business. My point is just that additional factors, completely disassociated with the president will impact it. Just like I don't give any credit to the pres for my good fortune, I don't see a reason to think that he's the main reason people aren't buying awnings.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,634
victor809 wrote:
Ever think it could have to do with the housing market?
I could think of a number of trends that would impact awning companies which have nothing to do with the president....

The new housing construction has been abysmal for a while (way back to bush), fewer new houses means fewer houses that may potentially need awnings.

Current construction sales is just barely starting to make a come-back. Again, change of ownership would be a factor in driving upgrades like that.

There's a trend towards city living, away from suburbs. More people buy condos, that lowers the percentage of population in need of awnings.

Anyway, it's your business. My point is just that additional factors, completely disassociated with the president will impact it. Just like I don't give any credit to the pres for my good fortune, I don't see a reason to think that he's the main reason people aren't buying awnings.



Think


wonder what caused that crash?
DrafterX Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,601
I heard Obama hates awnings.... Mellow
bloody spaniard Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Congrats, Victor. You, TW, and Drafter appear to be among the few relatively unscathed. My condolences to my fellow entrepreneur however- the awning guy. Hang tough & perhaps expand into ancillary services/products. As Victor said, the housing market is making a feeble comeback. There's hope.

Same thing is happening in my area of expertise- mktg/promo budgets were slashed by both Government and private industry. That's why if all goes well, I'll be starting a second business (and possibly a third) related to healthcare. Unlike Government/foundation research grants and other freebies, there'll (unfortunately) never be a shortage of developmentally challenged folks...
DrafterX Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,601
bloody spaniard wrote:
My condolences to my fellow entrepreneur however- the awning guy. Hang tough & perhaps expand ...



Mellow


Think
bloody spaniard Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
DrafterX wrote:
Mellow
Think


(see below)

dpnewell wrote:
I own and operate a small (2 employee) awning & canopy company. I've been in business for over 30 years. Before Obama, I've had maybe 3 down years, which where always followed by a stellar year that more then made up for it.

Although awnings, canopies, patio rooms, carports, etc., are nice to have on your home, they are not necessities. The bottom fell out of my industry right after the ‘08 elections, and the entire industry has stayed flat ever since. No one has ever seen it so bad. Folks are afraid to spend money, and I attribute that directly to Obama’s failed policies. My closing rate used to be in the 80% to 90% range. Now I’m lucky to close 20%, and I’m not losing jobs to competitors. It’s because folks decide they’re not doing the work “right now”, due to the economy. You have no idea how many times I’ve heard “we’re going with you, but, we’re going to hold off right now. Maybe next year, or the year after.”

Folks who’s businesses and/or jobs rely on the general public are the ones taking the hit. Government jobs, or companies that rely on government are doing just fine (for now). Guess I should have closed down back in ‘08 and gotten under Obama’s cone of protection (i.e. gone to work for the government, GM or Wall Street).




Oh, and dpnewell, companies that "rely" on Government jobs are not doing well at all- ever hear of Sequestration? There's been no money allotted to budgets for some time. Unfortunately, this has the oft- repeated trickle down effect but with negative results for vendors/suppliers and their distributors.
DrafterX Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,601
thought yoou may have planted a joke in there.... Mellow

you 'hang' awnings....
Awnings 'expand'...

over your own head I guess... Laugh
bloody spaniard Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
LOL!@ hang tough & expand...Brick wall True- good one, Drafter. Guess I shuttered it out.
Mathen Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 05-27-2011
Posts: 2,338
bloody spaniard wrote:
ever hear of Sequestration? There's been no money allotted to budgets for some time. .


If sequestration happens, Arlington, Alexandria and Fairfax counties in Northern Virginia will become Appalachia poor in about 60 days. They're predicting a quarter of a million jobs lost here. Mine will be one of them.
HockeyDad Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,213
Mathen wrote:
If sequestration happens, Arlington, Alexandria and Fairfax counties in Northern Virginia will become Appalachia poor in about 60 days. They're predicting a quarter of a million jobs lost here. Mine will be one of them.



Sounds like we need massive tax increases to keep the government sector the largest part of the US economy.
bloody spaniard Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
I just got goose bumps & chills.
That change is already taking place, Mathen. It's just verrrrrrry subtle. Budgets will be passed but the monies allotted will be sparse. I hope I'm wrong.
DadZilla3 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2009
Posts: 4,633
So far I've been pretty fortunate. I'd gotten a raise that more or less kept me even with inflation - but no more than that.

But best of all my ex stopped talking to me completely.

Win-win. ThumpUp
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
chemyst

AND IF ROMNEY GETS ELECTED, NEVER MIND HE WON'T GET 200 ELECTROL VOTES.
PRESIDENT OBAMA REELECTED Y 10:PM CALIORNIA TIME.

THE REAL QUESTION IS HAS ROMNEY EVER RECEIVED A FORGIVNESS FROM THE IRS
FOR HIS ADMITTED (TO THE IRS) FRAUDULENT TAX RETURN. MAYBE PRESIDENT OBAMA
WILL ASK HIM PERSONALLY DURING THE3 DEBATE.

MAYBE THE JOBS BILLS TO REPAIR OUR INFERSTRUCTER WILL FORCE THE REPUBLICANS
TOALLOW THESE MANY BILLS TO COME TO A VOTE. ASSUMING THEIR IS A REPUBLICAN
AND OR A TEA.PARTY LEFT
victor809 Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DadZilla3 wrote:

But best of all my ex stopped talking to me completely.

Win-win. ThumpUp


You definitely can thank Obama for that.

I hear he keeps her really busy.... :)
OldSchool Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 07-21-2005
Posts: 1,542
If it is not Romney on 11/2, depression begins 11/3. Pack your bags and hit the storm cellar it going to be a bumpy ride...
pdxstogieman Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 10-04-2007
Posts: 5,219
victor809 wrote:
I don't get it. I'm better off now than I was 4 years ago. This really has very little impact from the president.

My client company has more work for me than I'll be able to accomplish, I've managed to get out from under all my credit card debt I'd acquired from dating a high-maintenance girl on a biotech-startup salary. My condo has likely regained some of the value it had lost back when I'd initially considered putting it on the market, enough that I'll likely make a 75% profit off the sale.

I've got a job, it pays well, it will likely continue paying for a long time.
I constantly get offers for additional work in the area with different companies.
I'm not carrying any operating debt, and will likely have eliminated all debt in my life within the next few months.

I don't understand how so many people can be claiming to be worse off.


Maybe Thurston Howell III bought out their company, downsized and outsourced it.
pdxstogieman Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 10-04-2007
Posts: 5,219
HockeyDad wrote:
Sounds like we need massive tax increases to keep the government sector the largest part of the US economy.


Wait, I thought that's what everyone here was waving their pitchforks and torches against. Big Government is bad I guess unless you make a living from it making pitchforks and torches.
HockeyDad Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,213
pdxstogieman wrote:
Wait, I thought that's what everyone here was waving their pitchforks and torches against. Big Government is bad I guess unless you make a living from it making pitchforks and torches.




It's funny how Cones of Protection work!
wheelrite Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
Better off, no...

But I have Trust Fund and stuff
SamWidge Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 09-05-2012
Posts: 205
Better off... sure I'm better off - in everything EXCEPT my finances.

I work, live, move and have my being in the manufacturing industry, and everyone I work with has been hammered. Federal regulations, the cost of money, the cost of healthcare is creating such an amazing burden that almost everyone I know, work with or sell to is struggling in some way.

In environmental concerns alone, my company spends millions of dollars that would be unheard of in other parts of the world. We are very socially & globally conscious, but the measures we're forced to take because of regulators justifying their positions creates a huge drag on the growth of industry in general.

When you combine those issues with the amazing trade imbalance, it makes things pretty damn difficult! We're fortunate, and we're doing fine, but we have 500 families that are hit with the higher prices of absolutely everything they buy, and we can't keep pace with their wages, and its not because of "corporate greed" - in fact our margins are the smallest they've been in our 80 year history.

rfenst Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,476
OldSchool wrote:
If it is not Romney on 11/2, depression begins 11/3. Pack your bags and hit the storm cellar it going to be a bumpy ride...


If you truly believe that and that it will be so decisive, then i would expect you to sell everything now, and short everything you can.
drywalldog Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 06-19-2007
Posts: 5,536
Better 4 years ago than now, in Florida, thats funny. Just check Craigslist skilled, or general labor lists. About a hundred jobs on each list per day now. Used to be about 10 on a good day. But they say first in, first out.
cacman Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
NO!!! Not since Clinton was in office.
But did buy gold and silver ETF's this week after Bernake's debackle d'oh!
DadZilla3 Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2009
Posts: 4,633
victor809 wrote:
You definitely can thank Obama for that.

I hear he keeps her really busy.... :)

She's always been busy, even back those happy carefree college days when Obama was hanging around with Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn.
frankj1 Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,293
have to say I am better off in many, if not all, ways that matter. I assume the first thought the op conjures up is personal finances, but Stinkdyr did make me think with his "less free" answer. But that happens no matter which party rules, might explain his Libertarian stance. So that's a wash, been losing ground since 1968. But I have a pretty nice story.

Had my pay cut of 5 years ago reversed 2 years ago, with a nice bonus to help make up for the damage.

My company, that I care about deeply, is poised to have it's biggest year ever in 2012. 2011 was one of our top 4 years ever. We have been in biz for 27 years, I have been there 18, have known the owner since 7th grade and he recruited me.

We have absolutely no government contracts, though a small percentage of our sales are to local Housing Authorities, but it's always for lower end, lower profit goods.. We are a cabinet distributor and manufacturer, and fabricate countertops of all kinds from laminate to corian to marble and granite. We market to the trades and they send their customers to our showrooms. We do not compete with our customers as we do not install, except for granite. We were HIT bad as the economy tanked. 4 day work weeks for labor, 8% $$$ cuts for management and designer/sales people, 4% for labor. 401K matches were discontinued. But we also had just completed our manufacturing expansion before the dark settled in and were able to survive (competition thinned out a lot) because we no longer tied up money in stock cabinets hoping for buyers. Virtually all of the finished product we were holding had been ordered and had at least 50% deposit on it. The warehouse was hardly filled, but there would never be a liquidation sale!

New home starts died, and even safely employed people held back on remodeling, but the slack was picked up by Property Management companies, huge, large, and small owners of multi unit rental housing and others with tenants and turnovers in apartments. Our edge was that even if we were not cheaper than say Home Depot, our turn around time meant new tenants in and paying rent a few weeks sooner. A lost month's rent is not recoverable, and makes a $1,000 kitchen cost a lot more. We cost more, but we turned out to be a lot cheaper.

Massachusetts really is always in better shape than much of the country most of the time, and people realized that when homes don't sell at all, new home starts are dead, and foreclosures and abandoned property listings dominate the RE pages...well folks have to live somewhere and rental prop takes off. So the developers were and still are having a field day in rental prop development, converting mills, refurbishing neglected apartment buildings etc. And the word got out about our local factory...unheard of that manufacturing would come to Massachusetts as other industries closed. But it not only saved us, we are prospering. And now the log jam is breaking re: private residential remodeling, individuals are starting to spend. The MA RE market currently is heating up, but pricing is level (probably a realistic correction to the previous decade). So either sell now that you can or fix 'er up and live better where you are.

DPNewell and others in related trades...get your arses down to the Housing Authorities and bid those jobs, or become independent contractors for large prop management companies in reasonably populated areas. They are raking it in.

Also, the utilities are pushing free energy audits, then offering 0% interest loans for insulation, weather stripping, windows, roofing etc. When something dies, something else is born.

Frank
bloody spaniard Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Some very cogent & emotionally appealing posts...

Since the era of gruff/bully Johnson, I've done everything from digging ditches (at 14), to working for the Government, scrubbing toilets (preparing apartments), undercover store ******, broker, promotions, insurance adjustor, executive with large staff for firm w/clients internationally, to scrubbing toilets again, and finally becoming an entrepreneur... I've NEVER seen it anywhere this bad not even during clueless Carter.

God bless you if you think things are looking up & good luck if you're a Yak turd polisher so irreplaceable & insulated that you don't think you'll be eventually affected. Congrats, you're probably suffering from mental illness. I envy your obliviousness.
I grieve for this country. 100 Mitt Romneys & Ryans coudn't redirect this Titanic in time from hitting the iceberg.
Just keep working hard and keep your faith that a Higher Being will deliver us. Oh, and storing 3- 6 months worth of water & food wouldn't hurt

Buckle up. Our American Spring approaches. BigGrin ThumpUp
8trackdisco Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,114
Financially- Yes.
Physically and Mentally- No.
DadZilla3 Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2009
Posts: 4,633
bloody spaniard wrote:
Oh, and storing 3- 6 months worth of water & food wouldn't hurt

Buckle up. Our American Spring approaches. BigGrin ThumpUp


Don't forget plenty of ammo.
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