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Last post 11 years ago by snowwolf777. 28 replies replies.
Poll Question : Sandy: Is she good for the economy?
Choice Votes Statistics
No, Dumbass. It has ground business to a halt. 12 52 %
Yes. Construction jobs alone will get it going. 4 17 %
I haven't thought about it. 7 30 %
Total 23 100%

Sandy & Econ
8trackdisco Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,110
What do you think?
rfenst Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,459
8trackdisco wrote:
What do you think?


I haven't thought about that yet. This could be the worst damage caused by a storm in U.S. history. The human tragedy is what is on my mind right now. Next in my mind is how many of the affected people's votes might not get cast by Tuesday. I will research and ponder the macro-economics of this after Tuesday night...
8trackdisco Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,110
rfenst wrote:
I haven't thought about that yet. This could be the worst damage caused by a storm in U.S. history. The human tragedy is what is on my mind right now. Next in my mind is how many of the affected people's votes might not get cast by Tuesday. I will research and ponder the macro-economics of this after Tuesday night...


Voting isn't going to be affected. NY & NJ were both going to Obama without question. Saw tonight on the news that a blue collar neighborhood in Staten Island residents are complaining the rich are getting taken care of first. They stopped short of blaming Obama.

victor809 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
We were just discussing the massive amount of work that will be required to get NYCs infrastructure operational again. There is going to be a government contractor out there making butt-loads of money. Some small workers may get some too.... (trickled on, so to speak)
ZRX1200 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,682
Depends on how much is insurance pay out and how much $ the gov't prints.
itsawaldo Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 09-10-2006
Posts: 4,221
Has anyone heard of the vast amount of jobs after Joplin got wiped out? Irene, Katrina?
My brother sells hvac steel, biz is not booming after any of these events, he is still waiting for the business bump.
I dont forsee a lot of wealth being spread around.
Prayers to all that have lost friends and family and all that they have.
rfenst Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,459
8trackdisco wrote:
Voting isn't going to be affected. NY & NJ were both going to Obama without question. Saw tonight on the news that a blue collar neighborhood in Staten Island residents are complaining the rich are getting taken care of first. They stopped short of blaming Obama.



Saw the same thing. There is only so much anyone can do when there is a disaster of such great proportion. Blame is on the storm, not Obama. Just like New Orleans where Bush didn't deserve blame.

As to voting, I am looking at it from a different perspective: I was literally too sick to vote in 2000. Had you carried me to the poll, I was incapable of filling in a ballot. I felt absolutely terrible about not having been able to exercise my patriotic right to vote- something I truly will never be able to forget. It had noting to do with my candidate winning or losing- just that i didn't get to stand at the voting booth, something i truly look forward to at every election.

My perspective is that many, many people simply will not be able to vote- not which way their states go.



8trackdisco Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,110
ZRX1200 wrote:
Depends on how much is insurance pay out and how much $ the gov't prints.


Insurance companies are paying, that is for sure. A company I have knowledge of is on the hook for at least 10 million and 1,000 claims 75% home, the rest auto.

Insurance companies will get some deserved and undeserved bad press. Many of the people that lost their homes didn't opt for flood insurance. Those same people won't likely take accountability for that decision, they'll just lash out at Big Bad Insurance Companies.

The other thing many people chose to do when they bought their policies was choose a different deductible for hurricane than the standard policy deductible.

Example; $300,000 policy, with a standard $1,000 deductible for the run of the mill fire, tree damage etc. Instead of choosing that same $1,000 deductible on hurricane (which is pricey), they choose a 15% deductible. Which means now that they have to come up with $45,000 out of their pocket before insurance begins to pay.

That is a tough financial nut for most people to crack.

Some cut rate insurance companies wrote a bunch of business close to the Atlantic shore with a relatively cheap rate, never thinking they'd have to pay for The Big One..... whoops. Don't be surprised if a couple of insurance companies follow the now typical big business plan.

Well, we can't afford to pay all these claims! We'll go under!! WE NEED A BAILOUT!!!

Line up, taxpayers.
bloody spaniard Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
The economy was already on the ground. Sandy just gave it a good hearty Hollywood action style kick to the ribs- not debilitating but a wee painful.

Sandy's irrelevant except to Obama who needs all the help he can get looking "presidential" and will get a short bump & to Christy who is a jackass for helping him. For once I admire the little whiny NY governor for saying no to Hussein's photo op which would have tied up manpower and other resources unnecessarily IMO.

I didn't vote because I didn't see the option: "anemic business continues as usual".
rfenst Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,459
bloody spaniard wrote:
The economy was already on the ground. Sandy just gave it a good hearty Hollywood action style kick to the ribs- not debilitating but a wee painful.

Sandy's irrelevant except to Obama who needs all the help he can get looking "presidential" and will get a short bump & to Christy who is a jackass for helping him. For once I admire the little whiny NY governor for saying no to Hussein's photo op which would have tied up manpower and other resources unnecessarily IMO.

I didn't vote because I didn't see the option: "anemic business continues as usual".


Funny. Christie's praise of Obama, accurate or not, showed him crossing party lines on behalf of his state. His political capital sure got a bump from me.
bloody spaniard Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
His image as a call it as he sees it maverick gets a black eye from me & others who now see him as just another pandering politician.
Idiot would have gotten the help from FEMA regardless.
ZRX1200 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,682
This may be a long term investment for Christie.

Rfenter your feeling I think were the goal for constituants in the mushy middle for him.

Gov't doesn't create money so unless the insurance $ is greater than the damage this will be a net loss. Oh course contracters and others who grease palms will benefit.
8trackdisco Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,110
bloody spaniard wrote:
For once I admire the little whiny NY governor for saying no to Hussein's photo op which would have tied up manpower and other resources unnecessarily


Sure. But then he decides to dump all of those same resources into running a marathon. Am sure having cops standing in every intersection for 26 miles won't take anything away from the recovery effort.

Just like starting a war with Iraq did n't take anything away from the effort in Afganistan.




...................................................................................................................................................................... morons.
rfenst Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,459
The concept of even thinking of holding a marathon makes me want to puke. People have been killed and may be dying. There's looting, insufficient food, shelter and clothing. Sick and injured can't get medical care. Yeah, the marathon must go on!!!
jackconrad Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
It will make many jobs and we always rebuild better.
rfenst Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,459
Here's what The Economist said in part about Hurricane Katrina

"History suggests that the hurricane will have little effect on the national economy. Despite all the pictures of sinking hotels and flooded convention centres, the overall impact of natural disasters is often close to neutral: lost output (which will be large) is then compensated for by a surge in reconstruction and public spending (also large). That may be scant comfort to individual hoteliers, residents and insurers, but on a national level the economic damage will be real but limited."

http://www.economist.com/node/4343279

I believe the impact from Sandy will be greater than from Katrina due to New York's and New Jersey's greater population and population densities as well as New York being the financial epicenter of the U.S. and the world.
jackconrad Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
I was in New Orleans this year and it was a hundred times nicer than befoe Katrina,,
Stinkdyr Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
The answer is it is a mix of Yes and No.

Not sure what the NET result is.

Beer
bloody spaniard Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
The marathon folks have brought in a couple of generators that could have given power to over 800 homes and the lapdog media has done same.Cursing
snowwolf777 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 06-03-2000
Posts: 4,082
They're blocking off streets in a city where people are being told to car pool due to grid lock. They're using police and city labor to set up the marathon route. Bringing in food trucks and setting up water stations for runners and spectators. Kicking people who are homeless out of hotels because people have the rooms reserved for the Marathon. Makes New Orleans Katrina mayor look smart by comparison. Think

bloody spaniard Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
They just canceled the NY marathon.
See? They're knot stoopid.jester
MTappert Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 04-27-2011
Posts: 1,085
Broken Window Fallacy.

Link if you wanna learn about econ. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_window_fallacy
engletl Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 12-26-2000
Posts: 26,493
rfenst wrote:
The concept of even thinking of holding a marathon makes me want to puke. People have been killed and may be dying. There's looting, insufficient food, shelter and clothing. Sick and injured can't get medical care. Yeah, the marathon must go on!!!


I bet this year we would have seen the first sub-90 minute marathon - maybe even less than an hour d'oh!
TMCTLT Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
bloody spaniard wrote:
They just canceled the NY marathon.
See? They're knot stoopid.jester



Ya it only took a TON of pressure......but the dip**** finally relented
bloody spaniard Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
^ Really.
Now he can focus on more important business like drink sizes at fast food restaurants & leanness of corned beef at delis.
rfenst Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,459
bloody spaniard wrote:
^ Really.
Now he can focus on more important business like drink sizes at fast food restaurants & leanness of corned beef at delis.


Hey, I have no problem with that- as long as the pastrami isn't too lean.
Don't F with Katz's!!!
rfenst Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,459
Sandy slowed US consumer spending and pay in Oct.
Published - Nov 30 2012 10:32AM EST

MARTIN CRUTSINGER, AP Economics Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) — Americans cut back on spending last month while their income remained flat. The weakness in part reflected disruptions from Superstorm Sandy that could slow economic growth for the rest of the year.

The Commerce Department said Friday that consumer spending dropped 0.2 percent in October. It was the weakest figure since May, and it compared with a 0.8 percent spending increase in September.

Income had risen 0.4 percent in September.

Work interruptions caused by the storm reduced wages and salaries in October by about $18 billion at an annual rate, the government said. The storm affected 24 states, with the most severe damage in New York and New Jersey.

Consumers may also be scaling back on spending because of fears about the "fiscal cliff." That's the name for automatic tax increases and spending cuts that will take effect in January if Congress and the Obama administration fail to strike a budget deal by then.

"The upshot is that although both incomes and spending will probably bounce back in November, the underlying trend is weak," said Paul Dales, senior U.S. economist at Capital Economics.

The depressed spending figures suggest that the economy is growing more slowly in the October-December quarter than it did in the July-September quarter. Consumer spending drives nearly 70 percent of economic activity.

Dales predicts U.S. economic growth will tumble from the 2.7 percent annual rate in the July-September quarter to a weak 1 percent in the October-December period. That's too low to lower the unemployment rate, now at 7.9 percent.

Even discounting the effects of Sandy, income and spending gains would have been meager. Income would have risen a still-weak 0.1 percent. Spending would have been essentially flat, Dales estimated.

After-tax income adjusted for inflation fell 0.1 percent in October. And spending, when adjusted for inflation, dropped 0.3 percent — the biggest such decline in three years.

The saving rate edged up slightly to 3.4 percent of after-tax income in October, compared with 3.3 percent in September.

Many economists say growth will rebound in the New Year once the rebuilding phase begins in the Northeast.

And if President Barack Obama and Congress can reach a budget deal to avert to fiscal cliff, some economists, including Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, are predicting a strong year for the economy.

Still, the storm's impact has slowed sales in the nation's most densely populated region ahead of the crucial holiday shopping season.

The International Council of Shopping Centers said 18 major retailers reported sales rose 1.7 percent in November compared with the same period a year ago. The group had been expecting sales growth between 4.5 percent and 5.5 percent.

The economic damage from the storm may be starting to fade, though. Retailers are reporting solid sales over the Thanksgiving Day holiday weekend.

And applications for unemployment benefits have fallen from an 18-month high in the first week of November. That surge was driven by applications in New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Connecticut.

Still, the increase in unemployment applications earlier this month will likely depress job growth for November. Many economists predict that net job growth for November will range between 25,000 and 75,000 — well below the 171,000 jobs that were added in October.
snowwolf777 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 06-03-2000
Posts: 4,082
The storm will provide a great spin point for our dictator to point at and exclaim how well the auto industry is doing in this "re surging" economy. "People are buying new cars in droves". No, actually, insurance carriers are buying new cars in droves to replace the ones that went underwater. Say hello to your new, higher insurance rates.Whistle
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