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Last post 11 years ago by teedubbya. 56 replies replies.
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hey TW, serious question...
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DrafterX Offline
#1 Posted: Sat, Nov 10 2012, 10:15 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,626
I think you've prolly researched this more than anyone else... what is Obamacare gonna do to the dudes working for big corps..?? Huh
bloody spaniard Offline
#2 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 12:15 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
^^^ (sympathy top)

Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#3 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 12:16 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,626
Laugh
bloody spaniard Offline
#4 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 12:29 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Bastid

I can't get anyone mad at me this morning.Sad Brick wall
8trackdisco Offline
#5 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 1:10 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,119
Employers should start shedding jobs until they get to 49 employees, as there are penalties for having 50 employees or more. More care mandated by the government without applying even the basic concepts of underwriting, giving insurance to everyone is going to start ratcheting up the costs.

Look for your premiums for 2013 to go up on average of 10-20%.

Don't worry; once the next layers of the mandates are in place for 2014, you'll look back wistfully on the 15% increase you had back in '13. Ahhh... the good old days.
bloody spaniard Offline
#6 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 1:23 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
8trackdisco wrote:
Employers should start shedding jobs until they get to 49 employees, as there are penalties for having 50 employees or more. More care mandated by the government without applying even the basic concepts of underwriting, giving insurance to everyone is going to start ratcheting up the costs.

Look for your premiums for 2013 to go up on average of 10-20%.

Don't worry; once the next layers of the mandates are in place for 2014, you'll look back wistfully on the 15% increase you had back in '13. Ahhh... the good old days.





So when can I expect to be able to drop my infernal BC/BS & pick up some of dat Obamacare??? 2014? I've asked the question & all I get is be calm, jefe loco, "sometime" within 2 years. Oh, and my premiums, have gone up more like 30% per year... for GARBAGE that barely covers anything & is more of a catastrophic hospitalization coverage that excludes vision/dental.

I'd rather save 2/3'rds on premiums and get crappy Soviet/Cuban healthcare and be able to buy my own bedpans/supplements & rent nurses than the current worthless crap with huge deductibles (and exclusions) I currently waste badly needed $$$ on.

YO QUIERO MI TACO CARE!!Woot
DrafterX Offline
#7 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 1:38 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,626
I've been hearing stories of smaller companies laying-off half their employees and stuff.. kind of figured they were paranoid or trying to make some sort of statement.... We've got over 40K employees now and I don't expect cutbacks due to Obamacare but somethings prolly gotta give....

I wish they'd come up with another name for it at least.... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#8 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 1:47 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,296
DrafterX wrote:
I've been hearing stories of smaller companies laying-off half their employees and stuff.. kind of figured they were paranoid or trying to make some sort of statement.... We've got over 40K employees now and I don't expect cutbacks due to Obamacare but somethings prolly gotta give....

I wish they'd come up with another name for it at least.... Mellow

it's called Romneycare in MA...
same thing only different.
bloody spaniard Offline
#9 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 1:51 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
DrafterX wrote:
I've been hearing stories of smaller companies laying-off half their employees and stuff.. kind of figured they were paranoid or trying to make some sort of statement.... We've got over 40K employees now and I don't expect cutbacks due to Obamacare but somethings prolly gotta give....

I wish they'd come up with another name for it at least.... Mellow




Think Something doesn't add up- especially if the premiums are going to be cut by two thirds.

Only people I'd be concerned about are those working for insurance companies... but it's hard to feel pity for people who rape you year after year and are then not only unapologetic but arrogant about it. They gleefully look for exclusions even after you've met huge deductibles and then pay medical "suppliers" at their convenience.

I suppose the insurance execs and stock holders are pretty satisfied with the way things are. No interstate competition, nice perks, salaries, fat bonuses... while the doctors get scraps.
Speaking of which, enjoy eating like pigs at the trough while you still can, folks.
watchurai Offline
#10 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 1:52 PM EST
Joined: 09-17-2008
Posts: 9,289
DrafterX wrote:
I wish they'd come up with another name for it at least.... Mellow



O-drama-care?


Cuz that seems to be the REAL side effect...d'oh!
DrafterX Offline
#11 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 2:09 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,626
this is pretty common it seems.....

The CEO of popular pizza chain Papa John's says his employees may face reduced hours and he expects his business costs to rise because President Obama's re-election most likely insures the president's health care reform law will be implemented in full.

NaplesNews.com reports John Schnatter made the remarks to a small group at Edison State College's Collier County campus the day after the election.

Schnatter, who supported Mitt Romney in the election, said all Americans having health insurance under ObamaCare is a good, but estimates the change will cost Papa John's $5 million to $8 million annually.

Schnatter estimated that these rising costs could adversely affect his workers. Since only full-time employees working 30 hours or more must be covered under the new law, he said he expects franchise owners will be forced to cut employees' hours because they can't afford the costs of health insurance plans.

"That's probably what's going to happen," he said according to NaplesNews.com. "It's common sense. That's what I call lose-lose."

The comments were not Schnatter's first statements on ObamaCare. He made headlines in August for telling shareholders the law may lead to increases in the price of his pizza.

In addition, the Applebee’s family restaurant chain is under public attack, including the threat of boycotts after New York-area franchisee Zane Tankel told Fox Business Network that cost increases related to implementing ObamaCare might result in no expansion or additional hiring. Critics appear to have interpreted Tankel’s comments to mean he will layoff customers as a result of ObamaCare.


Film at 11.... Think
DrafterX Offline
#12 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 2:10 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,626
Think
so if you work less than 30 hours a week do you qualify for food stamps..?? Huh
8trackdisco Offline
#13 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 2:54 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,119

"..Schnatter estimated that these rising costs could adversely affect his workers. Since only full-time employees working 30 hours or more must be covered under the new law, he said he expects franchise owners will be forced to cut employees' hours because they can't afford the costs of health insurance plans..."

Penalize employers for having people work 30 hours a week, and they'll reduce the number of people working 30 hours a week. There you go.

You reward behavior you want repeated.
You penalize behavior you don't.

The government is essentially saying do not hire people full time.

Brilliant!
leftyposthole Offline
#14 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 3:23 PM EST
Joined: 05-09-2011
Posts: 3,376
So you folks who work for a living like me think the insurance cos. are the culprits. I am sorry but sometimes intelligant people make the most idiotic statements. 2 years ago I had a total knee replacement. In the hospital 3 days with four mos. of therapy afterwards. The total cost of everything was nearly $75,000.00 almost totally paid by insurance. The surgeon charged $10,000, the hospital charged $ 52,000 for a three day stay. The surgeon makes $600,000 a year and his malpractice insurance costs him over $10,000 a mo. So please stop pissin and moanin cause you have to pay $1000. a mo. for insurance. If your gonna be pissed at someone be pissed at the lowlife lawyers who get their paydays suing the hospitals and Dr. everytime a Dr. or nurse cut someones hangnail too short.
8trackdisco Offline
#15 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 3:37 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,119
leftyposthole wrote:
So you folks who work for a living like me think the insurance cos. are the culprits. I am sorry but sometimes intelligant people make the most idiotic statements. 2 years ago I had a total knee replacement. In the hospital 3 days with four mos. of therapy afterwards. The total cost of everything was nearly $75,000.00 almost totally paid by insurance. The surgeon charged $10,000, the hospital charged $ 52,000 for a three day stay. The surgeon makes $600,000 a year and his malpractice insurance costs him over $10,000 a mo. So please stop pissin and moanin cause you have to pay $1000. a mo. for insurance. If your gonna be pissed at someone be pissed at the lowlife lawyers who get their paydays suing the hospitals and Dr. everytime a Dr. or nurse cut someones hangnail too short.


Paying $1,000 a month for insurance is no big deal? Count your blessings. You've got it better than most.
leftyposthole Offline
#16 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 4:33 PM EST
Joined: 05-09-2011
Posts: 3,376
I don't pay that, I'm talking about all the other whinners out there
DrafterX Offline
#17 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 4:38 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,626
is the thousand dollar whinner fine part of Obamacare..?? Huh
bloody spaniard Offline
#18 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 4:39 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
I WAS going to respond to this but thought better of it after my first paragraph... damn shame too & waste of my time typing (finger pecking) but it would have been a lose- lose if you know what I mean. Good luck to you, leftyposthole.
sd72 Offline
#19 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 4:40 PM EST
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
Join a union. EXEMPT!
DrafterX Offline
#20 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 4:41 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,626
lefty seems to be in a bad mood today.... Mellow
wheelrite Offline
#21 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 4:45 PM EST
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
Easy solution...

Don't ever get sick,,,

That's my plan.




wheel,
DrafterX Offline
#22 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 4:47 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,626
not a bad plan but I think you still have to pay.... Mellow
leftyposthole Offline
#23 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 5:32 PM EST
Joined: 05-09-2011
Posts: 3,376
Lefty is always in a good mood, well almost, Bloody, would love to hear your take on it. Sure would not want you to waste your time though.................
bloody spaniard Offline
#24 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 5:47 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
^ LOL- I'm a tuckered out keyboard pecker (so to speak) is all... Let me think about it.
Prolly need pecker fatigue coverage... Wonder if some rum & coke will help?

Wishing you a quick recovery, Lefty, but in the meantime can you do a little Walter Brennan (limp walk) for us?
leftyposthole Offline
#25 Posted: Sun, Nov 11 2012, 6:21 PM EST
Joined: 05-09-2011
Posts: 3,376
Hey that walk comes natural, what with my age and all....... yep I am one of those hunt and peck kinda guys, it took me 15 min. to type post #14
teedubbya Offline
#26 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 12:25 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Drafter I don't know. That's my problem with obamacare. It's sort of like Frankenstein, a bunch of old parts thrown together hastily. Although at least Frankenstein is a system. Obamacare is random at times and even contradictory. Good ol special interests.

That's what bothers me. There are good parts and bad parts and I'm not sure what the end result is going to be. I don't think anyone does.

Those that have been railing against it since day one and those championing it since day one have something in common. They likely don't really understand it and are parroting what they heard. And they likely hear what they want to.

I've been studying healthcare systems for years (bith under grad and grad) have worked in all sides of it (for profit, not for profit, government, government contractor), and have been forced to dive into it at a level that would allow me to implement parts of it and support the implementation of other parts.

And I don't think I get it. That's why I don't get too deep into it in here. In here its a very superficial discussion and there is very little truth or fact (at least in a long enough string of facts to be coherent). It's frustrating but all that said, anyone in here's opinion is likely as good as mine. I dunno.

I think it's safe to say its not evil though. The death panel stuff is nonsense. The practice protocol stuff as it is often presented is nonsense, much of the discussion turning savings into cuts is nonsense (weird that qa/qi techniques are considered bad to some otherwise bright individuals)

This is a conversation I find hard to have in here. You really need a give and take of a real conversation with no vitriol. Some of the quality improvement things happening are really cool and will improve care and lower cost at the same time.

Ok I'm done lol
teedubbya Offline
#27 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 12:27 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Oh yea, almost forgot. It's evil and will end America as we know it.

Didn't want to have to eat at the kiddie table.
bloody spaniard Offline
#28 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 1:25 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
So let me see... I can drop my current pos expensive BC/BS insurance & pay a penalty ($2,500?) for a policy under Obamascare which will be less expensive but gives me additional coverage??? Think Think Think


Don't rush me... I thinking here... (in my best Ratso Rizzo)
teedubbya Offline
#29 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 1:32 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I don't know your situation but know there will be winners and losers.

My folks will be losers in the sense they will lose the subsidy propping up Medicare advantage. They are winners compared to what I know about the voucher plan.

But there is much more to this than your question. Much more. It is the biggest issue to you understandably but it's the tip of the iceburg.

Translated though it sounds like you are looking for your government cheese while looking down your nose at others already cutting the cheese.
ZRX1200 Offline
#30 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 1:34 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,695
We'll see if I have a job in 2014.....


Medicare competitive bidding will be fun.
teedubbya Offline
#31 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 1:41 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Competitive bidding is an interesting farsce.

The state exchange thing is an interesting concept too.

As for you blood I dunno. In the old days bc/bs used community ratings rather than experience. That was a win or lose for any individual or company based on perceived health risk. It did sort of spread risk. It's not so clear anymore (if it ever was)

Some of the handwringing is warranted, much of it is not.

Frankenstein may be a miracle or he may kill the girl with the owners. Personally I thi k it's a bad thing in total but I am an incrementalist. I think a few peices should have been implemented then revise and expand over time.

Our politics will not allow that sort of logical approach.
teedubbya Offline
#32 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 1:42 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Owners = flowers.
bloody spaniard Offline
#33 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 1:46 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
teedubbya wrote:

Translated though it sounds like you are looking for your government cheese while looking down your nose at others already cutting the cheese.



yes* & no

*If Government cheese (Obamascare) is the only alternative to the garbage offered by unapologetic insurance companies which are the only game in town thanks to no (interstate) competition.
ZRX1200 Offline
#34 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 1:49 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,695
You can thank states with ridiculous mandates for coverage for that. That's why some states now only have a few major insurance companies around.
teedubbya Offline
#35 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 1:51 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
At some point you need to look at where you're at and plan for your future rather than ruminating over the past I think Obamacare is a done deal now you need to figure out how to leverage it for yourself
bloody spaniard Offline
#36 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 2:12 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
teedubbya wrote:
At some point you need to look at where you're at and plan for your future rather than ruminating over the past I think Obamacare is a done deal now you need to figure out how to leverage it for yourself



No brainer. Providing there's no surprises... I'm in.
I know the plusses and negatives to socialized medicine. The poor don't have to stiff doctors and/or swamp emergency rooms. While those who can afford can always bypass the minuses of Obamascare by paying non-participating specialists out of pocket just as many of us are already forced to do NOW...
DrafterX Offline
#37 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 3:01 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,626
I was really counting on one of them death panel jobs...... Mellow
HockeyDad Offline
#38 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 3:03 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,238
DrafterX wrote:
I was really counting on one of them death panel jobs...... Mellow



Well yeah....I was angling for one of the re-education camp commandant jobs and that hasn't come through yet. Wasted 4 weeks in night school.
DrafterX Offline
#39 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 3:20 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,626
I built a gong.... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#40 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 3:23 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,626
teedubbya wrote:
Drafter I don't know. That's my problem with obamacare. It's sort of like Frankenstein, a bunch of old parts thrown together hastily. Although at least Frankenstein is a system. Obamacare is random at times and even contradictory. Good ol special interests.

That's what bothers me. There are good parts and bad parts and I'm not sure what the end result is going to be. I don't think anyone does.

Those that have been railing against it since day one and those championing it since day one have something in common. They likely don't really understand it and are parroting what they heard. And they likely hear what they want to.

I've been studying healthcare systems for years (bith under grad and grad) have worked in all sides of it (for profit, not for profit, government, government contractor), and have been forced to dive into it at a level that would allow me to implement parts of it and support the implementation of other parts.

And I don't think I get it. That's why I don't get too deep into it in here. In here its a very superficial discussion and there is very little truth or fact (at least in a long enough string of facts to be coherent). It's frustrating but all that said, anyone in here's opinion is likely as good as mine. I dunno.

I think it's safe to say its not evil though. The death panel stuff is nonsense. The practice protocol stuff as it is often presented is nonsense, much of the discussion turning savings into cuts is nonsense (weird that qa/qi techniques are considered bad to some otherwise bright individuals)

This is a conversation I find hard to have in here. You really need a give and take of a real conversation with no vitriol. Some of the quality improvement things happening are really cool and will improve care and lower cost at the same time.

Ok I'm done lol



and thanks man.... I knew I couldn't beleive everything I heard and I'm really not worried... If I worked for a small company I might be... we'll see soon enough...... Mellow
dpnewell Offline
#41 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 3:49 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
My youngest daughter's boyfriend is a manager for Papa Johns. He's already been told by corporate that now that Obamacare looks like a sure thing, they will be reducing staff, and phasing all employees into part time positions. I think it would be foolish to assume that they are the only ones with such plans.

But hey, TW has "hope", so I guess we shouldn't be concerned.
teedubbya Offline
#42 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 3:53 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Read that about papa johns. I guess that settles it. Plain and simple. There is no hope.

Crappy pizza outrage!
teedubbya Offline
#43 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 3:56 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Funny how being optimistic is a bad thing. Telling.

And if hope is all you took from my take on obamacare then you are right. Some things are hopeless.

I take issue with much of the ACA. I was and am against it. But there is both good and bad in there. In total I'm not happy with it but it is here.

Guess you missed that part.
ZRX1200 Offline
#44 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 4:04 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,695
Well with everyone going to 29 hours per week now the unemployment should drop anyways......
teedubbya Offline
#45 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 4:07 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
There is that.
DrafterX Offline
#46 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 4:08 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,626
still wonder about the 29 hours and the poverty level.... I now it'll vary from state to state and minimum wage and stuff... but will cutting someone back to 29 hours qualify them for gubment assistance..?? Huh
dpnewell Offline
#47 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 4:08 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
TW, my biggest concern about Obamacare, is what it's going to cost us in jobs. I had to drop my health insurance 4 years ago when the economy tanked. As one of the un-insured, I should be happier then a pig in crap about finally getting coverage again, and especially about the part that you poor slobs will be paying for most of it (my current income places me near the poverty level). Instead, I'd much rather have a robust economy that allows me to once again purchase my own. Can't for the life of me understand how some folks think that this new, massive burden on business isn't going to result in massive layoffs, and a possible recession.

But again, dude, we have your "hope", so maybe everything will be fine.
ZRX1200 Offline
#48 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 4:09 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,695
See I can be half empty or full.

(Le Hockey Dad taught me that)
teedubbya Offline
#49 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 4:10 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
yea. I really haven't thought much about this issue. I'm just hopeful.

I'm sorry.
dpnewell Offline
#50 Posted: Mon, Nov 12 2012, 4:16 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
TW, I understand your expertise, and I'm not trying to dismiss it or belittle you. Forgive me for giving you that impression. Sometimes I'm too sarcastic for my own good. I also understand and appreciate that the current system needs reforming, and that there are things in Obamacare that will be beneficial to many of us. I just don't feel that the possible loss in jobs and resulting damage to the economy is worth the benefits. I very well could be wrong, and for this nation's sake, I hope I am.

I don’t have one of those fancy speech recognition thingies, so I always seem to be a couple posts behind ya.
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