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Poll: Many say let illegal immigrants stay in US
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rfenst Offline
#1 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 8:11 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,476

WASHINGTON (AP) — More than 6 in 10 Americans now favor allowing illegal immigrants to eventually become U.S. citizens, a major increase....
...

Sixty-two percent of Americans now favor providing a way for illegal immigrants in the U.S. to become citizens, an increase from just 50 percent in the summer of 2010, the last time the AP polled on the question.

In an even earlier poll, in 2009, some 47 percent supported a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants.
...

A majority in the GOP — 53 percent — now favor the change. That's up a striking 22 percentage points from 2010. Seventy-two percent of Democrats and 55 percent of independents like the idea, similar to 2010.
______________________________________________

Thoughts?
HockeyDad Offline
#2 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 8:36 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,213
Americans are too fat, drunk, and lazy to round up the illegals!
dstieger Offline
#3 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 9:14 AM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Reading the poll data, something doesn't sit right with me....

I would have expected a larger disparity between these two questions:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Do you favor or oppose providing a legal way for illegal immigrants already in the United States
to become U.S. citizens? -- 62% Favor

As you may know, President Obama announced in 2012 that illegal immigrants 30 years old or
younger who were brought to the United States as children could obtain work permits if they meet
certain criteria and do not have a criminal record. Do you favor, oppose or neither favor nor
oppose this policy? -- 63% Favor

http://ap-gfkpoll.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/AP-GfK-January-2013-Topline-FINAL_IMMIGRATION.pdf
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I just figured that it would be easier for Joe American to get behind 'letting the children stay', than 'let 'em all be citizens'.


I suspect that since so much discussion in past year has been about the Dream Act, that perhaps the average subconcious frames the first question as support of Dream Act specifically - moreso than the broadbrush question actually asked.

Buckwheat Offline
#4 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 9:59 AM EST
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
HockeyDad wrote:
Americans are too fat, drunk, and lazy to round up the illegals!


We could always hire illegal immigrants to round up and ship out other illegal immigrants. Frying pan
TMCTLT Offline
#5 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 10:08 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Buckwheat wrote:
We could always hire illegal immigrants to round up and ship out other illegal immigrants. Frying pan



Now there's an idea I can get behind!!!! Beer
rfenst Offline
#6 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 10:09 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,476
dstieger wrote:
Reading the poll data, something doesn't sit right with me....

I would have expected a larger disparity between these two questions:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Do you favor or oppose providing a legal way for illegal immigrants already in the United States
to become U.S. citizens? -- 62% Favor

As you may know, President Obama announced in 2012 that illegal immigrants 30 years old or
younger who were brought to the United States as children could obtain work permits if they meet
certain criteria and do not have a criminal record. Do you favor, oppose or neither favor nor
oppose this policy? -- 63% Favor

http://ap-gfkpoll.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/AP-GfK-January-2013-Topline-FINAL_IMMIGRATION.pdf
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I just figured that it would be easier for Joe American to get behind 'letting the children stay', than 'let 'em all be citizens'.

I suspect that since so much discussion in past year has been about the Dream Act, that perhaps the average subconscious frames the first question as support of Dream Act specifically - more so than the broad brush question actually asked.



This is about changing social attitude. I don't think it matters exactly how the question is phrased and exactly how mathematically accurate the questions asked were, so long as the same question was asked each year for comparison. That is the best way to compare "apples to apples" of the public's' mind.

To me, this is really about changing attitudes over time- which may come from more thought and public/private and political discussion as well as hearing about "The Dream Act".

The real kicker here will be the change in Republican attitude. Romney lost, in part becaause Republicans seem to be out of tough with the hispanic vote. They are going to do an "about face" as quickly as they can in time for the next election cycle.
HockeyDad Offline
#7 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 10:22 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,213
rfenst wrote:
The real kicker here will be the change in Republican attitude. Romney lost, in part becaause Republicans seem to be out of tough with the hispanic vote. They are going to do an "about face" as quickly as they can in time for the next election cycle.




So you're saying the Republicans are going to become cheese-eating surrender monkeys on the illegal immigration issue?
ZRX1200 Offline
#8 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 10:29 AM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,683
Right propaganda and language never matter.....


What was the ethnical breakdown of that poll and geographic breakdown?


Polls are generally as useful as tits on a boar.
rfenst Offline
#9 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 10:30 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,476
HockeyDad wrote:
So you're saying the Republicans are going to become cheese-eating surrender monkeys on the illegal immigration issue?




Pretty much, but in a face-saving way.
HockeyDad Offline
#10 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 10:32 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,213
rfenst wrote:
Pretty much, but in a face-saving way.




Well if the Republicans are gonna make a big inclusive tent, they're gonna need some Mexicans to assemble and disassemble it!
rfenst Offline
#11 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 10:33 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,476
ZRX1200 wrote:
Right propaganda and language never matter.....


What was the ethnical breakdown of that poll and geographic breakdown?


Polls are generally as useful as tits on a boar.



If you say so.

So lets presume, for the sake of argument, there is a margin of confidence of 5% in either direction. The writing is still on the wall.
rfenst Offline
#12 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 10:36 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,476
Frank, I see you lurking!

03102640000079471831
frankj1 Offline
#13 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 10:37 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,293
rfenst wrote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — More than 6 in 10 Americans now favor allowing illegal immigrants to eventually become U.S. citizens, a major increase....
...

Sixty-two percent of Americans now favor providing a way for illegal immigrants in the U.S. to become citizens, an increase from just 50 percent in the summer of 2010, the last time the AP polled on the question.

In an even earlier poll, in 2009, some 47 percent supported a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants.
...

A majority in the GOP — 53 percent — now favor the change. That's up a striking 22 percentage points from 2010. Seventy-two percent of Democrats and 55 percent of independents like the idea, similar to 2010.
______________________________________________

Thoughts?

though I'm not a major conspiracy theorist (minor, yes), I must admit there seems to be a link between the new numbers favoring the change and the percent of Americans who.........



avoided the flu due to taking the shot.
bloody spaniard Offline
#14 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 10:40 AM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
^ mornin', Franciso!


It's a done deal. We have open borders. God bless America- willing to share her limited resources with the world.

The other day, a Peruvian lady friend, who arrived "without documents" & has since become a hard working American, was complaining to me after voting for Obama as an illegal (not that uncommon). He lied to her. Among other things, her sons were not eligible for in-state tuition.
Forget about Barack Hussein's dereliction of duty as a citizen of the world, you'd think that a sanctuary state like Maryland would know better.

Sarcasm
TMCTLT Offline
#15 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 11:04 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Shame on BOTH parties for blindly looking the other way as millions upon millions poured ILLEGALLY over our border and all they could do is see the "We got us some new voters"!!!! as they GIVE AWAY tax payer dollars in the form of one program after another. And if that's not bad enough our elections have become so corrupt that they are even allowed to vote on the "Horse"'s ass they think will most benefit them.
Win Win for them......Lose Lose for us. I laugh my ass off every time a POLE er poll is done cause lets face it to get the results your after, all you gotta do is poll the right groups /individuals.....

Here let me show you....say I want to create a poll, and I'm going to take a slice of 1000 individuals across the country on Immigration. I tell my poll takers to only call registered Latino voters....how do you think it would shake out???
Homebrew Offline
#16 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 11:32 AM EST
Joined: 02-11-2003
Posts: 11,885
I still think it would be easier, to go after those who knowingly employ illegal aliens, and strip them of their business licenses.

Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)
bloody spaniard Offline
#17 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 12:02 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
I say we all go door to door getting signatures expressing anger over our open borders AND then send a copy to Congress via certified mail!. ram27bat

Next, we can move on to outrage over Pearl Harbor and postal rate hikes.



LOL LOL LOL
dstieger Offline
#18 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 12:06 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Is that to suggest that perhaps the tail is wagging the GOP-dog straight into irrelevance?
bloody spaniard Offline
#19 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 12:14 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
dstieger wrote:
Is that to suggest that perhaps the tail is wagging the GOP-dog straight into irrelevance?



Don't get caught up in picking teams with your favorite, pwetty colors.
It's all one ruling class in DC. The Democrats are slightly better at circling their wagons but they're both scum just the same.
SweetHavok Offline
#20 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 3:38 PM EST
Joined: 11-28-2012
Posts: 557
I for one can not understand why so many people are so willing to have open borders. Doing so will only cause a bigger financial burden on U.S tax payers. From medical expenses, to housing illegal immigrants in prison sense, and everything in between, having open borders will only increase our countries financial troubles and increase our debt to foreign countries. I for one am strongly opposed to this.
SweetHavok Offline
#21 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 3:40 PM EST
Joined: 11-28-2012
Posts: 557
Bloody


Do we need to have a intervention? Too many diet pills, perhaps?


Your drastic weight loss from your last picture to your current one is shocking! I mean your nose is bleeding. Sarcasm
bloody spaniard Offline
#22 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 4:04 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
LMAO! I've been feeling cranky too.
SweetHavok Offline
#23 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 4:09 PM EST
Joined: 11-28-2012
Posts: 557
Hopefully a good sammich, will solve that problem for you.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#24 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 4:28 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,634
Why can't we shoot them?
frankj1 Offline
#25 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 5:45 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,293
bloody spaniard wrote:
^ mornin', Franciso!


It's a done deal. We have open borders. God bless America- willing to share her limited resources with the world.

The other day, a Peruvian lady friend, who arrived "without documents" & has since become a hard working American, was complaining to me after voting for Obama as an illegal (not that uncommon). He lied to her. Among other things, her sons were not eligible for in-state tuition.
Forget about Barack Hussein's dereliction of duty as a citizen of the world, you'd think that a sanctuary state like Maryland would know better.

Sarcasm

good evening to you.

Guess I was the only one who thought of the flu thread when I saw the 62% figure tossed about on this poll. So much for my conspiracy theory sarcasm.
bloody spaniard Offline
#26 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 6:15 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
frankj1 wrote:
good evening to you.

Guess I was the only one who thought of the flu thread when I saw the 62% figure tossed about on this poll. So much for my conspiracy theory sarcasm.




Francisco Franco- conspiracy theory sarcasm only works on dems that don't like or respects you. Sorry, but dats da rules.Not talking
(buenas noches, nacho)
DadZilla3 Offline
#27 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 6:51 PM EST
Joined: 01-17-2009
Posts: 4,633
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Why can't we shoot them?

Look, no matter where they came from all illegal aliens are human beings just like the rest of us and deserve a fair chance.

So just make sure to yell 'pull' first.
rfenst Offline
#28 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 8:09 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,476
Homebrew wrote:
I still think it would be easier, to go after those who knowingly employ illegal aliens, and strip them of their business licenses.

Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)


+1
Blame all of us. We have all benefited from cheap labor.
frankj1 Offline
#29 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 8:25 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,293
rfenst wrote:
Frank, I see you lurking!

03102640000079471831

hey, our posts must have crossed in the mail, so to speak. was on for just a few minutes at work this AM, just got home a few minutes ago. Looooong day, my Vietnamese guys, (both have become citizens via the long process) simply refused to leave without completing our goals. That's why I hired them.

great news, thank you.
frankj1 Offline
#30 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 8:30 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,293
bloody spaniard wrote:
Francisco Franco- conspiracy theory sarcasm only works on dems that don't like or respects you. Sorry, but dats da rules.Not talking
(buenas noches, nacho)

small "d" dems. no?
wheelrite Offline
#31 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 8:35 PM EST
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
Homebrew wrote:
I still think it would be easier, to go after those who knowingly employ illegal aliens, and strip them of their business licenses.

Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)


Um,
Pedro cuts my grass and his wife is here every friday cleaning,,,

They work hard for the meager pay they receive,,,

Whitey or African Americans won't do what they do...

Let them stay...
engletl Offline
#32 Posted: Wed, Jan 23 2013, 8:35 PM EST
Joined: 12-26-2000
Posts: 26,493
maybe if we do that then we can 'force" them "hard workin" illegals to pay taxes....

Nah, if they had to do that they would most likely go home
wild2brew Offline
#33 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2013, 4:29 AM EST
Joined: 02-12-2008
Posts: 56
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Why can't we shoot them?



Open season on the illegals!

Canadians = the other white meat!
TMCTLT Offline
#34 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2013, 5:38 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
rfenst wrote:
+1
Blame all of us. We have all benefited from cheap labor.



I cannot recall benefitting from this.....sorry. And if your gonna go with the fifty dollar salad argument, it doesn't take
20 million immigrants to pick fruits and vegetables. Agreed employers exacerbate the problem at hand, however they could NOT take advantage of "cheap labor" if it wasn't here and available to them.....ie: Finish ourborder fences and while were at it maybe...just maybe we stop the next group of terrorists from entering our country from down there.


wheelrite wrote:
Um,
Pedro cuts my grass and his wife is here every friday cleaning,,,

They work hard for the meager pay they receive,,,

Whitey or African Americans won't do what they do...

Let them stay...




Ummm try doing it yourselves...or perhaps don't be such a tight ass and pay a decent wage. Think
rfenst Offline
#35 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2013, 9:20 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,476
TMCTLT wrote:
I cannot recall benefitting from this.....sorry. And if your gonna go with the fifty dollar salad argument, it doesn't take
20 million immigrants to pick fruits and vegetables. Agreed employers exacerbate the problem at hand, however they could NOT take advantage of "cheap labor" if it wasn't here and available to them.....ie: Finish ourborder fences and while were at it maybe...just maybe we stop the next group of terrorists from entering our country from down there.


Finishing the border fence and enforcing the law only addresses the "supply" side of the illegal Hispanic immigration/labor issue. Being unable to recall benefiting from illegal immigrant labor ignores the "demand side". If you cannot see both, you are missing the picture.
deadeyedick Offline
#36 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2013, 7:49 PM EST
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,177
rfenst wrote:
+1
Blame all of us. We have all benefited from cheap labor.


We all benefit from cheap labor and goods from China also. How is that working out?

DED
frankj1 Offline
#37 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2013, 10:28 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,293
rfenst wrote:
Finishing the border fence and enforcing the law only addresses the "supply" side of the illegal Hispanic immigration/labor issue. Being unable to recall benefiting from illegal immigrant labor ignores the "demand side". If you cannot see both, you are missing the picture.

everybody sing along now, you know the tune...ya can't have one without the...oth-er
what else, oh yeah...it takes two to tango.
Rfenst is correct.
CelticBomber Offline
#38 Posted: Fri, Jan 25 2013, 12:24 AM EST
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
Buckwheat wrote:
We could always hire illegal immigrants to round up and ship out other illegal immigrants. Frying pan


Funniest thing about this idea is that it would probably work... really well! Offer some guys citizenship and a paycheck and they'd depopulate the Southwest!
CelticBomber Offline
#39 Posted: Fri, Jan 25 2013, 12:27 AM EST
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
TMCTLT wrote:
I cannot recall benefitting from this.....sorry. And if your gonna go with the fifty dollar salad argument, it doesn't take
20 million immigrants to pick fruits and vegetables. Agreed employers exacerbate the problem at hand, however they could NOT take advantage of "cheap labor" if it wasn't here and available to them.....ie: Finish ourborder fences and while were at it maybe...just maybe we stop the next group of terrorists from entering our country from down there.






Ummm try doing it yourselves...or perhaps don't be such a tight ass and pay a decent wage. Think


Wasn't there a big story in the news about the illegal immigrants crossing into the US from Mexico pointing out Muslims from the MidEast trying to cross over? I could swear I read something about that a few years back.
HockeyDad Offline
#40 Posted: Fri, Jan 25 2013, 8:03 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,213
CelticBomber wrote:
Wasn't there a big story in the news about the illegal immigrants crossing into the US from Mexico pointing out Muslims from the MidEast trying to cross over? I could swear I read something about that a few years back.



They were prolly just identifying Puerto Ricans and calling them Muslims.
TMCTLT Offline
#41 Posted: Fri, Jan 25 2013, 8:08 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
rfenst wrote:
Finishing the border fence and enforcing the law only addresses the "supply" side of the illegal Hispanic immigration/labor issue. Being unable to recall benefiting from illegal immigrant labor ignores the "demand side". If you cannot see both, you are missing the picture.



I'm NOT missing ANYTHING.....and just becuase you say so doesn't make it true. I have NO USE for " Cheap Illegal Labor" because in the end it ISN"T cheap for the rest of us. You legal types sure can twist the fuqin truth
rfenst Offline
#42 Posted: Fri, Jan 25 2013, 8:28 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,476
TMCTLT wrote:
I'm NOT missing ANYTHING.....and just becuase you say so doesn't make it true. I have NO USE for " Cheap Illegal Labor" because in the end it ISN"T cheap for the rest of us. You legal types sure can twist the fuqin truth


Quit crying. No one twisted anything. If you do not want to accept the fact that you have benefited from cheap illegal labor in the past, you are in denial.
dpnewell Offline
#43 Posted: Fri, Jan 25 2013, 8:35 AM EST
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
rfenst wrote:
Quit crying. No one twisted anything. If you do not want to accept the fact that you have not benefited from cheap illegal labor in the past, you are in denial.


Double negative, so that means you're agreeing with Paul's statement. I couldn't resist, Robert. I mean how many times do I get to bust a lawyer's nuts?
HockeyDad Offline
#44 Posted: Fri, Jan 25 2013, 8:36 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,213
rfenst wrote:
Quit crying. No one twisted anything. If you do not want to accept the fact that you have not benefited from cheap illegal labor in the past, you are in denial.



Not everyone has benefited from cheap illegal labor. It is too broad an assumption.
z6joker9 Offline
#45 Posted: Fri, Jan 25 2013, 8:55 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2011
Posts: 5,902
They left everything they know to try for a better life. Isn't that the attitude we want around here? Give them citizenship and let them pay taxes so they can help support the millions of Americans who don't want to work hard.
z6joker9 Offline
#46 Posted: Fri, Jan 25 2013, 8:57 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2011
Posts: 5,902
If you say you haven't benefited from cheap illegal labor, you have never eaten in a restaurant, had your roof replaced, or purchased vegetables from the grocery store, among plenty of other things.
HockeyDad Offline
#47 Posted: Fri, Jan 25 2013, 9:00 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,213
z6joker9 wrote:
If you say you haven't benefited from cheap illegal labor, you have never eaten in a restaurant, had your roof replaced, or purchased vegetables from the grocery store, among plenty of other things.



Too broad an assumption. For it to be true you must assume that everyone in the jobs you mentions are illegals.
z6joker9 Offline
#48 Posted: Fri, Jan 25 2013, 9:01 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2011
Posts: 5,902
HockeyDad wrote:
Too broad an assumption. For it to be true you must assume that everyone in the jobs you mentions are illegals.


Negative. It just means at least one person in your supply line is or was, which is exceptionally likely.
z6joker9 Offline
#49 Posted: Fri, Jan 25 2013, 9:03 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2011
Posts: 5,902
deadeyedick wrote:
We all benefit from cheap labor and goods from China also. How is that working out?


Pretty great actually. We get a ton of stuff for far cheaper than we could make it ourselves, and we've completely neutered the single largest political threat to our national security. They are so dependent on us that they cannot do anything that would upset our economy.
rfenst Offline
#50 Posted: Fri, Jan 25 2013, 9:08 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,476
dpnewell wrote:
Double negative, so that means you're agreeing with Paul's statement. I couldn't resist, Robert. I mean how many times do I get to bust a lawyer's nuts?


LOL! and, you did it without whining too!
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