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Last post 10 years ago by DrafterX. 44 replies replies.
Obama administration defends NSA collection of Verizon phone records
HockeyDad Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,219
The White House has sought to justify its surveillance of millions of Americans' phone records as anger grows over revelations that a secret court order gives the National Security Agency blanket authority to collect call data from a major phone carrier.

Politicians and civil liberties campaigners described the disclosures, revealed by the Guardian on Wednesday, as the most sweeping intrusion into private data they had ever seen by the US government.

But the Obama administration, while declining to comment on the specific order, said the practice was "a critical tool in protecting the nation from terrorist threats to the United States".

The secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (Fisa) granted the order to the FBI on April 25, giving the government unlimited authority to obtain the data for a specified three-month period ending on July 19.

Under the terms of the blanket order, the numbers of both parties on a call are handed over, as is location data, call duration, unique identifiers, and the time and duration of all calls. The contents of the conversation itself are not covered.

The disclosure has reignited longstanding debates in the US over the proper extent of the government's domestic spying powers.

Under the Bush administration, officials in security agencies had disclosed to reporters the large-scale collection of call records data by the NSA, but this is the first time significant and top-secret documents have revealed the continuation of the practice under President Obama.

The White House stressed that orders such as the one disclosed by the Guardian would only cover data about the calls rather than their content. A senior administration official said: "Information of the sort described in the Guardian article has been a critical tool in protecting the nation from terrorist threats to the United States, as it allows counter-terrorism personnel to discover whether known or suspected terrorists have been in contact with other persons who may be engaged in terrorist activities, particularly people located inside the United States.

"As we have publicly stated before, all three branches of government are involved in reviewing and authorising intelligence collection under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. Congress passed that act and is regularly and fully briefed on how it is used, and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court authorises such collection. There is a robust legal regime in place governing all activities conducted pursuant to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act."

The administration stressed that the court order obtained by the Guardian relates to call data, and does not allow the government to listen in to anyone's calls.

This point was also made by the chairman of the Senate intelligence committee, Dianne Feinstein. "This is just meta data. There is no content involved," she told reporters on Capitol Hill. "In other words, no content of a communication. … The records can only be accessed under heightened standards."

However, in 2013, such metadata can provide authorities with vast knowledge about a caller's identity. Particularly when cross-checked against other public records, the metadata can reveal someone's name, address, driver's licence, credit history, social security number and more. Government analysts would be able to work out whether the relationship between two people was ongoing, occasional or a one-off.

"From a civil liberties perspective, the program could hardly be any more alarming. It's a program in which some untold number of innocent people have been put under the constant surveillance of government agents," said Jameel Jaffer, American Civil Liberties Union deputy legal director. "It is beyond Orwellian, and it provides further evidence of the extent to which basic democratic rights are being surrendered in secret to the demands of unaccountable intelligence agencies."

The order names Verizon Business Services, a division of Verizon Communications. In its first-quarter earnings report, published in April, Verizon Communications listed about 10 million commercial lines out of a total of 121 million customers. The court order does not specify what type of lines are being tracked. It is not clear whether any additional orders exist to cover Verizon's wireless and residential customers, or those of other phone carriers.

Fisa court orders typically direct the production of records pertaining to a specific, named target suspected of being an agent of a terrorist group or foreign state, or a finite set of individually named targets. The unlimited nature of the records being handed over to the NSA is extremely unusual.

The Verizon order expressly bars the company from disclosing to the public either the existence of the FBI's request for its customers' records, or the court order itself. "We decline comment," said Ed McFadden, a Washington-based Verizon spokesman said on Wednesday.
'Secret blanket surveillance'

Feinstein said she believed the order had been in place for some time. She said: "As far as I know this is the exact three-month renewal of what has been the case for the past seven years. This renewal is carried out by the [foreign intelligence surveillance] court under the business records section of the Patriot Act. Therefore it is lawful. It has been briefed to Congress."

News of the order brought swift condemnation from senior US politicians. Former vice-president Al Gore described the "secret blanket surveillance" as "obscenely outrageous". "In [the] digital era, privacy must be a priority," he said.

The court order appears to explain the numerous cryptic public warnings by two US senators, Mark Udall and Ron Wyden, about the scope of the Obama administration's surveillance activities.

For about two years, the two Democrats have been stridently advising the public that the US government is relying on "secret legal interpretations" to claim surveillance powers so broad that the American public would be "stunned" to learn of the kind of domestic spying being conducted.

Udall, a member of the Senate intelligence committee, said on Wednesday night: "While I cannot corroborate the details of this particular report, this sort of widescale surveillance should concern all of us and is the kind of government overreach I've said Americans would find shocking."

Russell Tice, a retired National Security Agency intelligence analyst and whistleblower, said: "What is going on is much larger and more systemic than anything anyone has ever suspected or imagined."

Although an anonymous senior Obama administration official said that "on its face" the court order revealed by the Guardian did not authorise the government to listen in on people's phone calls, Tice now believes the NSA has constructed such a capability.

"I figured it would probably be about 2015" before the NSA had "the computer capacity ... to collect all digital communications word for word," Tice said. "But I think I'm wrong. I think they have it right now."

The Center for Constitutional Rights said in a statement that the secret court order was unprecedented. "As far as we know this order from the Fisa court is the broadest surveillance order to ever have been issued: it requires no level of suspicion and applies to all Verizon [business services] subscribers anywhere in the US.

"The Patriot Act's incredibly broad surveillance provision purportedly authorizes an order of this sort, though its constitutionality is in question and several senators have complained about it."

Mark Rumold, a lawyer with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, said: "This is confirmation of what we've long feared, that the NSA has been tracking the calling patterns of the entire country. We hope more than anything else that the government will allow a judge to decide whether this is constitutional, and we can finally put an end to this practice."

Howard Wolfson, a deputy mayor of New York, described the revelations as "a shocking report that really exploded overnight".

"A lot of people are waking up now and I think they will be horrified," he said. "It is not just the civil libertarian wings of the Republican and Democratic parties; I think most Americans will be really surprised that their government is having access to all of the phone calls they make."

"I don't think the administration's response [so far] is anywhere near adequate. I think you will see a lot of questions being asked in the coming days."

Oregon senator Jeff Merkley said: "This type of secret bulk data collection is an outrageous breach of Americans' privacy. Can the FBI or the NSA really claim that they need data scooped up on tens of millions of Americans?"
ZRX1200 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,686
I use a burner cell for my covert ops.
paulkeck Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
ZRX1200 wrote:
I use a burner cell for my covert ops.

what ops? getting noobs to send you half naked photos with mustaches on!!!Sarcasm
teedubbya Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
paulkeck wrote:
what ops? getting noobs to send you half naked photos with mustaches on!!!Sarcasm


you fell for that one? how many times?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,635
whip Can I hear you now???whip
ZRX1200 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,686
He gave until it hurt......
Taps86 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 4,691
Nothing new here. This has gone on for years. New York times reported about the same thing in 2005. Why is everyone so surprised now.
paulkeck Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
teedubbya wrote:
you fell for that one? how many times?

i only showed you my pen1s one time!! i cant help it you started stalking him ya sick bastid!!!
DadZilla3 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2009
Posts: 4,633
In related news:

Iowa City could be among first in nation to ban drones

Iowa City will be among the first municipalities in the country to adopt a ban on drones and other surveillance devices, but city leaders are making clear that they hope the ordinance isn’t permanent.

The Iowa City Council on Tuesday unanimously approved the first reading of an ordinance to ban drones, automated traffic cameras and license-plate readers. That comes after thousands of local residents signed a petition calling for such a ban.

All seven council members supported the ordinance Tuesday night and indicated they’ll do the same June 18 when the measure comes up for final approval in two weeks. However, council members said they still want to install some of those devices, red-light cameras in particular. They said they’ll wait until state policymakers finish reviewing possible restrictions on cameras.


http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20130606/NEWS/130606002/Iowa-City-could-be-among-first-in-nation-to-ban-drones?Frontpage&nclick_check=1
HockeyDad Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,219
Taps86 wrote:
Nothing new here. This has gone on for years. New York times reported about the same thing in 2005. Why is everyone so surprised now.



Obama changed all that. Don't you remember "Hope & Change"?
HockeyDad Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,219
DadZilla3 wrote:


Iowa City could be among first in nation to ban drones




Flyover State Flyover Drone Outrage!
Taps86 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 4,691
HockeyDad wrote:
Obama changed all that. Don't you remember "Hope & Change"?


LOL. Pretty hard to change anything with the nonsense going on in the senate and house.
8trackdisco Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,114
HockeyDad wrote:
The White House has sought to justify its surveillance of millions of Americans' phone records as anger grows over revelations that a secret court order gives the National Security Agency blanket authority to collect call data from a major phone carrier.

Politicians and civil liberties campaigners described the disclosures, revealed by the Guardian on Wednesday, as the most sweeping intrusion into private data they had ever seen by the US government.

But the Obama administration, while declining to comment on the specific order, said the practice was "a critical tool in protecting the nation from terrorist threats to the United States".

The secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (Fisa) granted the order to the FBI on April 25, giving the government unlimited authority to obtain the data for a specified three-month period ending on July 19.

Under the terms of the blanket order, the numbers of both parties on a call are handed over, as is location data, call duration, unique identifiers, and the time and duration of all calls. The contents of the conversation itself are not covered.

The disclosure has reignited longstanding debates in the US over the proper extent of the government's domestic spying powers.

Under the Bush administration, officials in security agencies had disclosed to reporters the large-scale collection of call records data by the NSA, but this is the first time significant and top-secret documents have revealed the continuation of the practice under President Obama.

The White House stressed that orders such as the one disclosed by the Guardian would only cover data about the calls rather than their content. A senior administration official said: "Information of the sort described in the Guardian article has been a critical tool in protecting the nation from terrorist threats to the United States, as it allows counter-terrorism personnel to discover whether known or suspected terrorists have been in contact with other persons who may be engaged in terrorist activities, particularly people located inside the United States.

"As we have publicly stated before, all three branches of government are involved in reviewing and authorising intelligence collection under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. Congress passed that act and is regularly and fully briefed on how it is used, and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court authorises such collection. There is a robust legal regime in place governing all activities conducted pursuant to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act."

The administration stressed that the court order obtained by the Guardian relates to call data, and does not allow the government to listen in to anyone's calls.

This point was also made by the chairman of the Senate intelligence committee, Dianne Feinstein. "This is just meta data. There is no content involved," she told reporters on Capitol Hill. "In other words, no content of a communication. … The records can only be accessed under heightened standards."

However, in 2013, such metadata can provide authorities with vast knowledge about a caller's identity. Particularly when cross-checked against other public records, the metadata can reveal someone's name, address, driver's licence, credit history, social security number and more. Government analysts would be able to work out whether the relationship between two people was ongoing, occasional or a one-off.

"From a civil liberties perspective, the program could hardly be any more alarming. It's a program in which some untold number of innocent people have been put under the constant surveillance of government agents," said Jameel Jaffer, American Civil Liberties Union deputy legal director. "It is beyond Orwellian, and it provides further evidence of the extent to which basic democratic rights are being surrendered in secret to the demands of unaccountable intelligence agencies."

The order names Verizon Business Services, a division of Verizon Communications. In its first-quarter earnings report, published in April, Verizon Communications listed about 10 million commercial lines out of a total of 121 million customers. The court order does not specify what type of lines are being tracked. It is not clear whether any additional orders exist to cover Verizon's wireless and residential customers, or those of other phone carriers.

Fisa court orders typically direct the production of records pertaining to a specific, named target suspected of being an agent of a terrorist group or foreign state, or a finite set of individually named targets. The unlimited nature of the records being handed over to the NSA is extremely unusual.

The Verizon order expressly bars the company from disclosing to the public either the existence of the FBI's request for its customers' records, or the court order itself. "We decline comment," said Ed McFadden, a Washington-based Verizon spokesman said on Wednesday.
'Secret blanket surveillance'

Feinstein said she believed the order had been in place for some time. She said: "As far as I know this is the exact three-month renewal of what has been the case for the past seven years. This renewal is carried out by the [foreign intelligence surveillance] court under the business records section of the Patriot Act. Therefore it is lawful. It has been briefed to Congress."

News of the order brought swift condemnation from senior US politicians. Former vice-president Al Gore described the "secret blanket surveillance" as "obscenely outrageous". "In [the] digital era, privacy must be a priority," he said.

The court order appears to explain the numerous cryptic public warnings by two US senators, Mark Udall and Ron Wyden, about the scope of the Obama administration's surveillance activities.

For about two years, the two Democrats have been stridently advising the public that the US government is relying on "secret legal interpretations" to claim surveillance powers so broad that the American public would be "stunned" to learn of the kind of domestic spying being conducted.

Udall, a member of the Senate intelligence committee, said on Wednesday night: "While I cannot corroborate the details of this particular report, this sort of widescale surveillance should concern all of us and is the kind of government overreach I've said Americans would find shocking."

Russell Tice, a retired National Security Agency intelligence analyst and whistleblower, said: "What is going on is much larger and more systemic than anything anyone has ever suspected or imagined."

Although an anonymous senior Obama administration official said that "on its face" the court order revealed by the Guardian did not authorise the government to listen in on people's phone calls, Tice now believes the NSA has constructed such a capability.

"I figured it would probably be about 2015" before the NSA had "the computer capacity ... to collect all digital communications word for word," Tice said. "But I think I'm wrong. I think they have it right now."

The Center for Constitutional Rights said in a statement that the secret court order was unprecedented. "As far as we know this order from the Fisa court is the broadest surveillance order to ever have been issued: it requires no level of suspicion and applies to all Verizon [business services] subscribers anywhere in the US.

"The Patriot Act's incredibly broad surveillance provision purportedly authorizes an order of this sort, though its constitutionality is in question and several senators have complained about it."

Mark Rumold, a lawyer with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, said: "This is confirmation of what we've long feared, that the NSA has been tracking the calling patterns of the entire country. We hope more than anything else that the government will allow a judge to decide whether this is constitutional, and we can finally put an end to this practice."

Howard Wolfson, a deputy mayor of New York, described the revelations as "a shocking report that really exploded overnight".

"A lot of people are waking up now and I think they will be horrified," he said. "It is not just the civil libertarian wings of the Republican and Democratic parties; I think most Americans will be really surprised that their government is having access to all of the phone calls they make."

"I don't think the administration's response [so far] is anywhere near adequate. I think you will see a lot of questions being asked in the coming days."

Oregon senator Jeff Merkley said: "This type of secret bulk data collection is an outrageous breach of Americans' privacy. Can the FBI or the NSA really claim that they need data scooped up on tens of millions of Americans?"



Thank Heavens. The government is keeping us safe.
bloody spaniard Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
I've given up on these clowns. They are finally killing the dream & remaking America into their nightmare. LOL Boo hoo!
Taps86 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 4,691
Only fools would think this is only with Verizon...

You can bet your a$$ there are also Apple, Google, Twitter & many more blanket surveillance orders.
paulkeck Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Taps86 wrote:
Only fools would think this is only with Verizon...

You can bet your a$$ there are also Apple, Google, Twitter & many more blanket surveillance orders.

Thats just stupid Taps! everyone knows bing out does google!!!!! DUH
teedubbya Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Im kinda on the fence
DrafterX Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,601
does it hurt..?? Huh
bloody spaniard Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
DrafterX wrote:
does it hurt..?? Huh


You can hear the giant sucking sound when he gets off the post.
teedubbya Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
does it hurt..?? Huh


not if you do it right. much like HDs cones it starts small and tapers out.
victor809 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
teedubbya wrote:
not if you do it right. much like HDs cones it starts small and tapers out.


You're sitting on HD's head?
teedubbya Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
victor809 wrote:
You're sitting on HD's head?


no he has madonna cones
wheelrite Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
Bush sux !
edin508 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 06-19-2012
Posts: 4,647
Smoke signals?
teedubbya Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Bush started it, Barry intensified it. Shameful.
snowwolf777 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 06-03-2000
Posts: 4,082
teedubbya wrote:
Bush started it, Barry intensified it. Shameful.



Barry has done what he promised. He said he wouldn't be like Bush.

Everyone who voted for him just assumed he meant he was going to be better. Not talking

DrMaddVibe Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,635
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXWTdTnhebs
rfenst Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,490
Surprise! Surprise!!!
Taps86 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 4,691
The Wall Street Journal reports unnamed sources, which claim that Verizon isn't the only telecom turning over extensive phone records to the NSA. The agency's logging includes "call data" from AT&T and Sprint as well as information from ISPs and credit card records. If you've been following this week's disclosures about the NSA's expansive spying program, none of this should be too surprising.
daveincincy Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2006
Posts: 20,033
Logan's Run was one of my all-time favorite shows as a kid. While I may never get to live it out to the fullest in real life, perhaps my kids' kids will get to experience it.
HockeyDad Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,219
I wonder where credit card records of Cuban cigars ranks as a drone-strike offense.
Taps86 Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 4,691
HockeyDad wrote:
I wonder where credit card records of Cuban cigars ranks as a drone-strike offense.


Lol. That's why I get a gift card and go online and register a false billing name....
rfenst Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,490
Taps86 wrote:
Lol. That's why I get a gift card and go online and register a false billing name....


Brilliant statement on a public forum.
Taps86 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 4,691
rfenst wrote:
Brilliant statement on a public forum.



Like it really matters anyways.
HockeyDad Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,219
rfenst wrote:
Brilliant statement on a public forum.



NSA will be in contact with CigarBid now!
Taps86 Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 4,691
HockeyDad wrote:
NSA will be in contact with CigarBid now!

Beer
Taps86 Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 4,691
and the talk of shipping shine is anymore legal.
DrafterX Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,601
they were shipping apple sauce.... Mellow
daveincincy Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2006
Posts: 20,033
Hey, my kid like's cider and I like booze. It was more economical to ship the two together in one bottle, and there's less chance of breakage.
Taps86 Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 4,691
daveincincy wrote:
Hey, my kid like's cider and I like booze. It was more economical to ship the two together in one bottle, and there's less chance of breakage.


So next time I guess I should ship corn then with it eh?
DrafterX Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,601
daveincincy wrote:
Hey, my kid like's cider and I like booze. It was more economical to ship the two together in one bottle, and there's less chance of breakage.



Think
ya know, every can of apple sauce should have a porkchop in it too... Mellow
8trackdisco Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,114
More spying.
More drone strikes.
Guantanimo still open.

You'd think Obama would be trending in a more positive light here, being that he is now acting more like Bush than Bush did.
cacman Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
8trackdisco wrote:
More spying.
More drone strikes.
Guantanimo still open.

You'd think Obama would be trending in a more positive light here, being that he is now acting more like Bush than Bush did.

And let's not forget:
- The Benghazi Cover-up
- Targeting by the IRS
- Immigration Immunity
- Politicians Insider Trading
– The fluffed-up Housing Market
– And a healthcare law that none of the politicians who voted for it have to participate in.

Obama's trending alright…
DrafterX Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,601
He turned me into a newt.... Sad
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