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Last post 10 years ago by bloody spaniard. 40 replies replies.
Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 or why "immigation" is an issue these days
bloody spaniard Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
The 1965 act marked a radical break from the immigration policies of the past. The law as it stood then excluded Latin Americans, Asians, and Africans and preferred Europeans. In order to convince the American populace - the majority of whom were opposed to the act- its proponents (Ted Kennedy, Johnson...) assured that passage would not influence America's culture significantly. Gonz

Immigration changed America's demographics, opening the doors to immigrants from Asia, Africa, and the Middle East. The number of Latin American immigrants also dramatically increased after 1965, though this was more due to soaring population in Latin America and the Caribbean. It is worth noting that this act introduced immigration quotas from Latin American countries, whereas there were previously no immigration quotas from the Western Hemisphere (also see National Origins Formula). By the 1990s, America's population growth was more than one-third driven by legal immigration and substantially augmented by illegal immigration, primarily from Latin America and other parts of the developing world. Before passage of the Hart-Celler Act, immigration accounted for only ten percent of population increase in the U.S. Ethnic and racial minorities, as defined by the US Census Bureau, rose from 25 percent of the US population during the year 1990 to 30 percent in the year 2000 and to 36.6 percent as measured by the results from the 2010 census. Similarly, during the same time period the non-Hispanic white population in the United States decreased from 75 percent of the overall US population in 1990 to 70 percent in 2000 and finally to 63.4 percent during the year 2011. It is estimated that by the year 2042, white people not referring to themselves as Hispanic will no longer constitute a majority but rather only a plurality of the population of the United States. Non-white groups, led by Hispanic Americans (mainly Mexican Americans), Black Americans, Asian Americans, Native Americans, and Pacific Islander Americans would together outnumber non-Hispanic White Americans. According to the 2000 census, roughly 11.1 percent of the American population was foreign-born, a major increase from the low of 4.7 percent in 1970. A third of the foreign-born were from Latin America and a fourth from Asia. The passage of the Hart-Celler Act contributed to increased illegal immigration from Latin America, especially Mexico, since the unlimited legal bracero program previously in place was eliminated.

Let it be said that despite encountering problems such as importing disease, not finding employment possibly due to discrimination, and not assimilating easily, there are also may success stories. For instance, an illegal that I know, has 3 "kids" who have been nationalized and are achieving the American dream. One is studying medicine, another is a mortgage banker, and the third is management in a service industry.

At this point the floodgates have been opened & any discussion for a "solution" borders (hahaha) on lip flapping. IMHO.
dstieger Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
For all the news about and clamor for immigration reform these past couple of years, I still have no clear idea what needs fixing. Has anyone even tried to define a problem....or are we in need of a solution regardless of whether there is a problem?
bloody spaniard Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Let me put it to you this way, if the Chinese were to mass migrate to a struggling, borderless Mexico in huge numbers and let's say despite initial struggles & pushing limited social services to the verge of collapse, they helped the economy (translation: mostly the rich) due to cheaper labor, entrepreneurship, and overall achievement in the professional fields, should the change of (cultural) demographics be of any concern to Mexicans? Should they complain if their personal standard of living is static (at best) while the Chinese's is improving?
dstieger Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Huh????

Is the assumption that if the Chinese had stayed out of Mexico, the Mexicans would have improved the economy and everyone's standard of living all by themselves? How many average Mexicans are going to pick veggies and wash laundry?

I haven't heard anyone suggest that immigration policies are actually responsible for holding down the average American standard of living. I'd love to hear that debate played out.
bloody spaniard Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
dstieger wrote:
Huh????
Is the assumption that if the Chinese had stayed out of Mexico, the Mexicans would have improved the economy and everyone's standard of living all by themselves? How many average Mexicans are going to pick veggies and wash laundry?

I haven't heard anyone suggest that immigration policies are actually responsible for holding down the average American standard of living. I'd love to hear that debate played out.



No, the assumption is that the Chinese better THEIR lot while the average Mexican continues to struggle.

Oh really? You don't believe that immigration policies, or more specifically, a lack thereof, can lower a country's standard of living?
What example(s) can you site to the contrary? What country in the history of the world has ever flourished without borders?
teedubbya Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
foreign folk be bad
bloody spaniard Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
teedubbya wrote:
forien folk are bad


Ah, the voice of raisin.

Gotta run... Immigration.d'oh!
teedubbya Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
bad berry berry bad
Buckwheat Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
"We don't want the Irish!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boO4RowROiw
ZRX1200 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,673
The effect that our immigration policy and its enforcement and lack thereof is multi-faceted.

Diseases that were wiped out in the US are back.
Standards of wages have dropped (in conjunction with non-reported inflation)
Welfare use has skyrocketed.
Healthcare costs have been effected by the uninsured and medicaid beneficiaries.
Crime has been a factor as well. Bare numbers don't play that out as a percentage, but the numbers of crimes committed by illegal aliens (undocumented democrats) are staggering.


Ted Kennedy's POS status is well documented, but this may very well have been his greatest work far overshadowing "No Child Left Behind" and Mary Jo Kopechne.
tailgater Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
dstieger wrote:
Huh????

Is the assumption that if the Chinese had stayed out of Mexico, the Mexicans would have improved the economy and everyone's standard of living all by themselves? How many average Mexicans are going to pick veggies and wash laundry?

I haven't heard anyone suggest that immigration policies are actually responsible for holding down the average American standard of living. I'd love to hear that debate played out.


Are you talking about legal immigrants? If so, I don't think you'll hear a debate.
Immigration numbers are kept in check, whether by design or by default, to have minimal impact on joe-america's wages.

The real issue is the illegal influence, and how it affects directly and indirectly.
teedubbya Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
ZRX1200 wrote:
The effect that our immigration policy and its enforcement and lack thereof is multi-faceted.

Diseases that were wiped out in the US are back.
Standards of wages have dropped (in conjunction with non-reported inflation)
Welfare use has skyrocketed.
Healthcare costs have been effected by the uninsured and medicaid beneficiaries.
Crime has been a factor as well. Bare numbers don't play that out as a percentage, but the numbers of crimes committed by illegal aliens (undocumented democrats) are staggering.


Ted Kennedy's POS status is well documented, but this may very well have been his greatest work far overshadowing "No Child Left Behind" and Mary Jo Kopechne.



You forgot to mention

There are less marshmellows in lucky charms
The price of tacos has gone up
The sewer systems in Montana are deteriorating
Scrappy Doo - nuff said
DrafterX Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,588
screw Scrappy Doo.... Not talking Not talking
dstieger Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
So.....Immigration Reform means reducing Illegals? I get that illegals are illegal - and I am a fan of laws and a non-fan of law-breakers. If the problem is that 'there are too many people in this country illegally'....and the solution is 'Immigration Reform'.....well then, I guess I'm for it. That never seems to be the expression of the problem statement, however. Maybe part of the problem is that both sides cry out for Immigration Reform without trying to articulate what the problem is or how their 'Reform' differs from the other side. We need better slogans. Can't have both Red AND Blue demanding 'Immigration Reform'. It's confusing. At least until somebody clarifies their vision of the problem and proposed solution.

But, I'm still not convinced by anything I've read suggesting that immigrants (legal or illegal) are holding down average standards of living in this country. In fact, I think I've been more persuaded by arguments suggesting that the average immigrant is more productive and self-reliant than the average native born American. I don't know, but it seems that if true, higher per-capita productivity has to be a net gain for the area/state/country.
I don't seem to hear very much about government prosecution/persecution of persons and companies that employ illegals. All I hear is 'build a fence' or 'send them home'. I don't care if you put landmines down and raise a fifty-foot fence.....if someone on this side is going to (illegally) pay substantially higher wages than available in foreign countries, you're going to have people working here illegally.

Besides, the price of tacos rising isn't necessarily a bad thing if it doesn't dramatically outpace overall inflation. It means higher wages for the taco vendor, more money coursing through our economic veins. Lucky Charm marshmallow shortages are another thing altogether.
teedubbya Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
I screwed Scrappy Doo....Flapper Drool




freak
DrafterX Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,588
Bassard... Mad
DrafterX Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,588
so, do we decide whether or not the illegal guy working here and sending money back to Mexico is ok but the illegal guy who brought his family with him and is collecting the welfare is not ok..?? or vice versa..?? Huh
tailgater Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
dstieger wrote:


But, I'm still not convinced by anything I've read suggesting that immigrants (legal or illegal) are holding down average standards of living in this country. In fact, I think I've been more persuaded by arguments suggesting that the average immigrant is more productive and self-reliant than the average native born American. I don't know, but it seems that if true, higher per-capita productivity has to be a net gain for the area/state/country.
I don't seem to hear very much about government prosecution/persecution of persons and companies that employ illegals. All I hear is 'build a fence' or 'send them home'. I don't care if you put landmines down and raise a fifty-foot fence.....if someone on this side is going to (illegally) pay substantially higher wages than available in foreign countries, you're going to have people working here illegally.
.


Gotta waive the BS flag on this one.

I don't know the figures, but I don't think the average immigrant holds as high a social class as you immagine. You could argue that the "typical" immigrant is more self reliant.
But when you "average" all the illegals into the fray, there is a higher percentage who are on government social programs and they usurp our funds faster than they put back into the system.

And immigrants, by definition, haven't worked here their whole life, so when they collect social security it's from borrowed money. They put nothing in the til, yet they receive benefits.

The same is true for healthcare and education.

I don't begrudge them their work ethic. It's no secret that America lost her way in this regards.
But until we eliminate all the illegals the numbers will most certainly be weighed against them in terms of the +/- column.


And when I say "eliminate", I mean build a fence with them.




teedubbya Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I've not seen all the data apparantly yall have access to.
ZRX1200 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,673
Jesus H Christ.........you're worse than Victor sometimes .........
bloody spaniard Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
LOL!!

Ok, let me try a different approach using an imaginary Orthodox people called the Greeks who don't have two drachmas, er, I mean euros to rub together, high unemployment, poor health coverage, and whose mythical country (Greaseland) has been decreed a depository for political flotsam from the Third World by the all knowing EU. Does this put their country in less of a crisis mode? I'm sure that they are more than happy to share their unlimited resources with impoverished yet VERY hard working Syrians, Turks, Philipinos, Ethiopians, & Albanians. And of course, the "guests" are thrilled! They no longer have to recycle digestible shoe leather and they send their savings home.

Sound familiar?d'oh!
DrafterX Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,588
no... never heard of Greaseland... Mellow
ZRX1200 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,673
Its Teedubbya's ranch (dressing) name.
bloody spaniard Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Don't make fun of TW's noble asspirations to live in a borderless country with unlimited welfare resources for all until it collapses into his black hole.Pray
ZRX1200 Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,673
Like he's gonna read any of that ^ except "black hole"......


Smooth Bloody!
teedubbya Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Blah blah blah black hole blah blah


wheelrite Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
teedubbya wrote:
You forgot to mention

There are less marshmellows in lucky charms
The price of tacos has gone up
The sewer systems in Montana are deteriorating
Scrappy Doo - nuff said



um,,,
It's marshMALLOWS...

not marshMELLOWS

ya moron,,,


Whistle
ZRX1200 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,673
You got SERVED!
teedubbya Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Oh no he diint
bloody spaniard Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
You gotta love TW. He's the poster boy for cut 'n paste and smirks.
teedubbya Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
And blood is the poster boy for the R.C. Wooters fan club.
bloody spaniard Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
When you post I see a smug Al Franken sitting on a chair donut.
teedubbya Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
bloody spaniard wrote:
When you post I see a smug Al Franken sitting on a chair donut.


weird because I see you as the chair donut
bloody spaniard Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
That was a dirty crack.jester
teedubbya Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
bloody spaniard wrote:
That was a dirty crack.jester


It was but thank you for cleaning it up for me. Here is a dollah for a tick tac
bloody spaniard Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
I still don't understand why illegals can't be shipped out of the country by rail, boat, and plane.
The Germans and others with fewer transportation tools did more than half a century ago...
THEN we can allow some to enter at OUR discretion. Problem is, we don't want to do anything about the borders.

Get ready for 6- 12 million more Democrat voters. Then we will have a DUPLICATE of the corrupt, self- serving political systems these people left.
bloody spaniard Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Rubio and gang are hucksters.
There are no real ramifications to their immigration program. You sneak in, you stay, period.

Besides, there's already a HUGE, LEGAL immigration pathway.
Perhaps we should shoot & rape them like our benevolent neighbors to the south do to encroaching Central Americans.
ZRX1200 Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,673
I listened to Mark Lavin's interview of Paul Ryan defending this debacle.

At the very end (22+ minutes) he admits we can't do anything about them coming here.

Yet he's promising security!





As soon as you take the financial incentives away they WILL self deport. Not all, but a large number that don't give a rats azz about assimilation.
dkeage Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 03-05-2004
Posts: 15,161
ZRX1200 wrote:
I listened to Mark Lavin's interview of Paul Ryan defending this debacle.

At the very end (22+ minutes) he admits we can't do anything about them coming here.

Yet he's promising security!





As soon as you take the financial incentives away they WILL self deport. Not all, but a large number that don't give a rats azz about assimilation.



But but but..........who would cut Wheelrites grass??? and clean his house????

Think
bloody spaniard Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
ZRX1200 wrote:
I listened to Mark Lavin's interview of Paul Ryan defending this debacle.
At the very end (22+ minutes) he admits we can't do anything about them coming here.
Yet he's promising security!



Ryan's a calculated idiot. That's why many viewers joined Biden in laughing at him during the debates.
Mark Levin is a brilliant constitutionalist. He could think circles around Obama and most Democrats.
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