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Florida pastor arrested before he could burn Qurans
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rfenst Offline
#1 Posted: Wed, Sep 11 2013, 11:06 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,403
AP | By TAMARA LUSH
Published September 11, 2013 11:31PM EDT


MULBERRY, Fla. (AP) — A Florida pastor was arrested Wednesday as he drove a pickup truck towing a large barbecue-style grill filled with kerosene-soaked Qurans to a park, where the pastor had said he was planning to burn 2,998 of the Muslim holy books— one for every victim of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Sheriff's deputies in Polk County, Fla., arrested Pastor Terry Jones, 61, and his associate pastor, Marvin Sapp Jr., 44, each on a felony charge of unlawful conveyance of fuel. Jones had said he was heading to a nearby park in Mulberry to burn the Qurans on Wednesday, the 12th anniversary of the attacks. Sheriff's officials said that Jones was also charged with unlawful open-carry of a firearm, a misdemeanor, and that Sapp faces a charge of having no valid registration for the trailer.

Both were being booked Wednesday night into the Polk County jail, according to Sheriff Grady Judd.

Mulberry's mayor, along with area elected officials, a sheriff's deputy and several Polk County residents have talked about the need to express love and tolerance for all faiths on Sept. 11.

Jones is the pastor of a small evangelical Christian church. He first gained attention in 2010 when he planned to burn a Quran on the anniversary of 9/11, although he eventually called it off. His congregation did burn the Muslim holy book in March 2011 and last year he promoted an anti-Muslim film. All three incidents sparked violence in the Middle East and Afghanistan.
...

Jones has repeatedly ignored pleas from the U.S. military asking him not to stage his protests. Military officials say his actions put American and Western troops in Afghanistan and elsewhere in danger.

Mulberry is a town of about 3,000 between Orlando and Tampa and has no connection to Jones' church, which recently moved out of its Gainesville building.
...

Earlier Wednesday, about 75 people gathered In Mulberry for an interfaith prayer service to counter Jones' actions.

Mike Ghouse, who has organized a 9/11 prayer service in his home state of Texas for nine years, brought his event to Mulberry because of Jones' planned Quran burning. He initially had planned to hold the service in Texas but teamed with a group of Mulberry residents who had organized an anti-Jones Facebook page.

"Everyone has a right to believe what they believe," said Ghouse, adding that it was Jones' right as an American to express himself. Others said that while Jones was free to say or do whatever he wanted, the people of Mulberry didn't want the world to think that the residents condone or agree with Jones' views.

Said Polk County resident Butch Rahman: "We don't buy what Jones is selling."

(Emphasis added)


Driving around with 3,000 kerosene soaked prayer books is just plain crazy. Wanting to burn them in a public park to "honor" those killed on 9/11 is twisted. How does a burning/destroying prayer books help the families and other Americans in need? It is really just an attempt to agitate- similar but to a much lesser extent- that we blame Radical Islam for.

But, I do support the First Amendment and the rights of certain free expression. Quite a conflict when one hates the message, huh?

Peacefulness does not seem to be any part of this pastor's repertoire. I do not believe the one God we believe in looks kindly upon Pastor Jones. If he, his ilk and I all make it to heaven, then I will seriously question whether I belong in hell-so to speak...
jackconrad Offline
#2 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 12:05 AM EST
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
Jones is a Total nutcase!
cacman Offline
#3 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 1:44 AM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
A nut is sometimes just nut. A book is just a book. And media attention is just fuel on the fire.
HockeyDad Offline
#4 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 2:48 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
unlawful conveyance of fuel.......they should have just busted his tail light or something
Abrignac Offline
#5 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 4:48 AM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,354
How many Americans died so that Jones could speak his viewpoint?

Though I believe people like him are little more than a pimple on the ass of humanity if we aren't gonna persecute the other hate mo here on our soil, why him?
DadZilla3 Offline
#6 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 5:45 AM EST
Joined: 01-17-2009
Posts: 4,633
rfenst wrote:
AP | By TAMARA LUSH
Published September 11, 2013 11:31PM EDT

Jones has repeatedly ignored pleas from the U.S. military asking him not to stage his protests. Military officials say his actions put American and Western troops in Afghanistan and elsewhere in danger.

Agreed but: In a theater of war, aren't troops always in danger?

This kind of thinking illustrates the problem with using our military as worldwide police and social workers instead of what a military used to be for...to kill as many enemies and break as many of their things as quickly as possible using overwhelming force, achieve a clear cut victory, and get back home.

We've lost many American lives and wasted a crap-ton of money in Iraq and Afghanistan, for what? Those places are still sh*tholes full of fundamentalist Muslim nut jobs who think this is still the 14th century.
rfenst Offline
#7 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 6:00 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,403
DadZilla3 wrote:
Agreed but: In a theater of war, aren't troops always in danger?



Of course they are. I think they are communicating increased danger when they ask him to STFU.
rfenst Offline
#8 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 6:03 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,403
HockeyDad wrote:
unlawful conveyance of fuel.......they should have just busted his tail light or something



They didn't have to break a tail light. The idiot was driving around towing a potential inferno.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#9 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 6:27 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,541
Ever been to Mulberry?

He could be the mayor!!!Frying pan

Freedom of speech cuts both ways. Don't like it? Don't listen to it!
Lou Sanis Offline
#10 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 8:06 AM EST
Joined: 09-05-2013
Posts: 219
When the cops stopped him with the bogus charges he should have thrown a lit zippo in to the whole mess and started dancing the Dougie.
Abrignac Offline
#11 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 8:07 AM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,354
rfenst wrote:
They didn't have to break a tail light. The idiot was driving around towing a potential inferno.


Robert you surprise me. You're an attorney how did you miss this?

Is there a law against towing a barbeque trailor in FL. If so where is the citation for that? How would the police know he had a bunch of kerosene soaked books inside? I'm trying to figure out what the reasonable suspicion was to conduct a traffic stop? Absent more "information" I'm gonna say this gets tossed and Jones sues for unlawful search and seizure.
DrafterX Offline
#12 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 8:12 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,574
ya.... somebody prolly narked him out... Mellow
Lou Sanis Offline
#13 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 8:13 AM EST
Joined: 09-05-2013
Posts: 219
He may have advertised his intent and the act of soaking the filthy books. I doubt he did it discretely.
DrafterX Offline
#14 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 8:15 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,574
were they gonna roast Nathan weiners or just burn books..?? Huh
Lou Sanis Offline
#15 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 8:17 AM EST
Joined: 09-05-2013
Posts: 219
Is Nathan's weiner made out of pork?
DrafterX Offline
#16 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 8:26 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,574
better check with Bloody..... he prolly knows... Mellow
Lou Sanis Offline
#17 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 8:40 AM EST
Joined: 09-05-2013
Posts: 219
He said Nathan's weiner tastes salty and creates it's own sauce.
HockeyDad Offline
#18 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 8:45 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
DadZilla3 wrote:
We've lost many American lives and wasted a crap-ton of money in Iraq and Afghanistan, for what? Those places are still sh*tholes full of fundamentalist Muslim nut jobs who think this is still the 14th century.



....but given enough time, those places will transform into somewhere neat like Copenhagen.
HockeyDad Offline
#19 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 8:53 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
rfenst wrote:
They didn't have to break a tail light. The idiot was driving around towing a potential inferno.



Yes. We have an exploding barbeque grill problem here in Florida.



It is unlawful for any person to maintain, or possess any conveyance or vehicle that is equipped with, fuel tanks, bladders, drums, or other containers that do not conform to 49 C.F.R. or have not been approved by the United States Department of Transportation for the purpose of hauling, transporting, or conveying motor or diesel fuel over any public highway. Any person who violates any provision of this subsection commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, and, in addition, is subject to the revocation of driver license privileges as provided in s. 322.26.



I don't see kerosene mentioned. The law also does not apply if the amount of motor fuel is 8 gallons or less. I wonder how much taxpayer money will be used to squeeze the kerosene out of the Korans to prove it was more than 8 gallons and to find a motor that will burn it.

This arrest is harassment but it worked. Maybe they should have just shot him and dumped him in an orange grove or a meth lab and then blew the place up. It is Polk County.
ZRX1200 Offline
#20 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 9:00 AM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,651
I'd herf with him.
Abrignac Offline
#21 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 9:01 AM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,354
HockeyDad wrote:
Yes. We have an exploding barbeque grill problem here in Florida.



It is unlawful for any person to maintain, or possess any conveyance or vehicle that is equipped with, fuel tanks, bladders, drums, or other containers that do not conform to 49 C.F.R. or have not been approved by the United States Department of Transportation for the purpose of hauling, transporting, or conveying motor or diesel fuel over any public highway. Any person who violates any provision of this subsection commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, and, in addition, is subject to the revocation of driver license privileges as provided in s. 322.26.



I don't see kerosene mentioned. The law also does not apply if the amount of motor fuel is 8 gallons or less. I wonder how much taxpayer money will be used to squeeze the kerosene out of the Korans to prove it was more than 8 gallons and to find a motor that will burn it.

This arrest is harassment but it worked. Maybe they should have just shot him and dumped him in an orange grove or a meth lab and then blew the place up. It is Polk County.



Harassment is exactly what it was. Someone didn't like his message so they silenced him. Where have we heard this before?
Abrignac Offline
#22 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 9:01 AM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,354
ZRX1200 wrote:
I'd herf with him.


I wanna Herf with you.
ZRX1200 Offline
#23 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 9:04 AM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,651
Rfenster has alot of pull in Polk county!
rfenst Offline
#24 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 9:12 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,403
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Ever been to Mulberry?

He could be the mayor!!!Frying pan

Freedom of speech cuts both ways. Don't like it? Don't listen to it!



Given i never even heard of it I figured it had to be nowheresville, USA. As to Freedom of Speech- I agree.
DrafterX Offline
#25 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 9:14 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,574
wasn't there a tv show about Mulberry back in da day..?? Huh
rfenst Offline
#26 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 9:18 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,403
Abrignac wrote:
Robert you surprise me. You're an attorney how did you miss this?

Is there a law against towing a barbeque trailor in FL. If so where is the citation for that? How would the police know he had a bunch of kerosene soaked books inside? I'm trying to figure out what the reasonable suspicion was to conduct a traffic stop? Absent more "information" I'm gonna say this gets tossed and Jones sues for unlawful search and seizure.


I didn't miss anything. Probable cause wasn't the issue. It was the bittersweetness of both sides of the coin when it comes to freedom of speech. And, it was pastor Jones yet again...

As to pc, I don't see it either based on the article.
rfenst Offline
#27 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 9:19 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,403
HockeyDad wrote:



This arrest is harassment but it worked. Maybe they should have just shot him and dumped him in an orange grove or a meth lab and then blew the place up. It is Polk County.



Agreed.
dpnewell Offline
#28 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 9:37 AM EST
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
It is my opinion that this so called pastor is a hateful nut job, that has no concept of true Christianity. How did Jesus say that the world would know His followers? By their self-righteous attitudes, church attendance, or hatred of others? No, by their love. John 13:35 & 35 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you are also to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another".

Yet we see this man consumed with vengeful hate. The only thing this stunt of his did, was to bring disgrace to the name of the Christ he claims to serve. It's a shame that he is so blinded by hate and self-righteousness, that he probably can't even see the damage he is doing.





With that said, it's sure a good thing that some Cleric didn't burn a bunch of Bibles. I can see Christians all over the world running through the streets, burning down Mosques and beheading folk, not.
dpnewell Offline
#29 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 9:45 AM EST
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
DrafterX wrote:
wasn't there a tv show about Mulberry back in da day..?? Huh


Sheesh, Drafter, that was the fictitious town of Mayberry, GA, based on Andy Griffith's childhood memories of growing up in Mt. Airy, NC.
bloody spaniard Offline
#30 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 11:05 AM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Rfenst, I know you're reaching for some sort of Christian "equivalence" in order to appear fair but I think I would rate this potential Kuran burning pretty low (and silly) when on scale with ongoing muslim violence, intolerance, and other atrocities where folks are literally being skinned and quartered for their religious and political beliefs.
DrafterX Offline
#31 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 11:09 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,574
dpnewell wrote:
Sheesh, Drafter, that was the fictitious town of Mayberry, GA, based on Andy Griffith's childhood memories of growing up in Mt. Airy, NC.



I bet Andy & Goober woulda burned them.... Mellow
tailgater Offline
#32 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 11:52 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I wish those cops would find a reason to arrest the Westboro church freaks who haunt soldier funerals.
DadZilla3 Offline
#33 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 12:07 PM EST
Joined: 01-17-2009
Posts: 4,633
HockeyDad wrote:
....but given enough time, those places will transform into somewhere neat like Copenhagen.

So maybe there is hope for Detroit too? Think
ZRX1200 Offline
#34 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 12:09 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,651
Amen Bloody.
rfenst Offline
#35 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 3:06 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,403
bloody spaniard wrote:
Rfenst, I know you're reaching for some sort of Christian "equivalence" in order to appear fair but I think I would rate this potential Kuran burning pretty low (and silly) when on scale with ongoing muslim violence, intolerance, and other atrocities where folks are literally being skinned and quartered for their religious and political beliefs.


Not searching for any "equivalence to be fair" that I can see- but maybe if you explain what you are thinking and mean- I will catch on. So, please help me here a bit...

That being said, I am sick to my stomach with what this guy does. But, this is the Freedom of Expression and Religion we charish. So be it.

I don't think desroying anyone elses' sacred text is acceptable. Mine, yours my Muslim friends' and clients', etc. Imagine someone here burning Christian Bibles. I think it would sadden you too. And, I don't think the way to stop Radical Islam is by burning the Koran...
Abrignac Offline
#36 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 6:49 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,354
rfenst wrote:
Not searching for any "equivalence to be fair" that I can see- but maybe if you explain what you are thinking and mean- I will catch on. So, please help me here a bit...

That being said, I am sick to my stomach with what this guy does. But, this is the Freedom of Expression and Religion we charish. So be it.

I don't think desroying anyone elses' sacred text is acceptable. Mine, yours my Muslim friends' and clients', etc. Imagine someone here burning Christian Bibles. I think it would sadden you too. And, I don't think the way to stop Radical Islam is by burning the Koran...



Think of him in the same way we think about Rush, Jesse, Sean, Al and company. It's not about effecting change, its about dollars and cents. Take a radical stand then hold out your hand.
wheelrite Offline
#37 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 8:37 PM EST
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
Abrignac wrote:
Think of him in the same way we think about Rush, Jesse, Sean, Al and company. It's not about effecting change, its about dollars and cents. Take a radical stand then hold out your hand.


Um.
Rush is a Talk Show Entertainer,,,,

your Lasso has a way too wide loop...
engletl Offline
#38 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 9:53 PM EST
Joined: 12-26-2000
Posts: 26,493
DadZilla3 wrote:
Agreed but: In a theater of war, aren't troops always in danger?

This kind of thinking illustrates the problem with using our military as worldwide police and social workers instead of what a military used to be for...to kill as many enemies and break as many of their things as quickly as possible using overwhelming force, achieve a clear cut victory, and get back home.

We've lost many American lives and wasted a crap-ton of money in Iraq and Afghanistan, for what? Those places are still sh*tholes full of fundamentalist Muslim nut jobs who think this is still the 14th century.

and yet more people have been murdered in Chicago during the same time we have been in Afghanistan than the number of Soldiers that have been killed over there.

I say we need to bring ALL of our Soldiers home from EVERY FOB and let the rest of the world kill each other
wheelrite Offline
#39 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 10:05 PM EST
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
yawn,,,,
ZRX1200 Offline
#40 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 10:48 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,651
Don't yawn.... rfenster is outraged.
Abrignac Offline
#41 Posted: Fri, Sep 13 2013, 5:39 AM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,354
wheelrite wrote:
Um.
Rush is a Talk Show Entertainer,,,,

your Lasso has a way too wide loop...


Who takes a radical stand and holds out his hand.
DadZilla3 Offline
#42 Posted: Fri, Sep 13 2013, 9:02 AM EST
Joined: 01-17-2009
Posts: 4,633
engletl wrote:
I say we need to bring ALL of our Soldiers home from EVERY FOB and let the rest of the world kill each other

And while they're at it, having some of those troops guard our own southern border might not be a bad idea. That may be a problem though, as right now the government seems to be more concerned about storing all of its citizens emails, phone calls, and the URL of all the websites they visit.

And oh yeah...and making sure they don't smoke cigars from a certain place. Brick wall
bloody spaniard Offline
#43 Posted: Fri, Sep 13 2013, 10:44 AM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Just saw a blood curdling video of Syrian rebels yelling Allahu Akbar as they proudly displayed bodies of children they had just slashed and beheaded.
To me, a bunch of Kurans splashed with kerosene pales in comparison- actually it's NOTHING if not worth mentioning IMHO.
Waste of kerosene if you ask me.
ZRX1200 Offline
#44 Posted: Fri, Sep 13 2013, 10:53 AM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,651
But that's not religious (christian) nuts here in the USA (Florida). So it doesn't assuage rfenster's outrage.
Buckwheat Offline
#45 Posted: Fri, Sep 13 2013, 12:06 PM EST
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
Abrignac wrote:
How many Americans died so that Jones could speak his viewpoint?

Though I believe people like him are little more than a pimple on the ass of humanity if we aren't gonna persecute the other hate mo here on our soil, why him?


+1 fog
HockeyDad Offline
#46 Posted: Fri, Sep 13 2013, 12:40 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
bloody spaniard wrote:
Just saw a blood curdling video of Syrian rebels yelling Allahu Akbar as they proudly displayed bodies of children they had just slashed and beheaded.



If the USA had supplied them with rifles they wouldn't have had to use knives.
bloody spaniard Offline
#47 Posted: Fri, Sep 13 2013, 1:16 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
ZRX1200 wrote:
But that's not religious (christian) nuts here in the USA (Florida). So it doesn't assuage rfenster's outrage.

What those muslim animals did probably surpassed any savagery by most WWII Japanese and Nazi monsters.
We are a wacked out civiiization with screwed up priorities to even care about the insignificant potential burning of a questionably holy book by a single Christian preacher while there's ongoing muslim bloodletting being unleashed everywhere. Brick wall
rfenst Offline
#48 Posted: Fri, Sep 13 2013, 2:04 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,403
bloody spaniard wrote:
What those muslim animals did probably surpassed any savagery by most WWII Japanese and Nazi monsters.
We are a wacked out civiiization with screwed up priorities to even care about the insignificant potential burning of a questionably holy book by a single Christian preacher while there's ongoing muslim bloodletting being unleashed everywhere. Brick wall



Bloody, those are seperate issues in my mind. Good people/Americans worship with the Koran (as do evil people). Same with the Christian Bible and Torah. Who are we todecide wihich prayer books are holly- other than our own. Here is a version of a popular saying:

First they came for the Liberals, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Liberal.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Catholic.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

I am just speaking out on this one-
DrafterX Offline
#49 Posted: Fri, Sep 13 2013, 2:09 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,574
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/11/american-soldier-anti-mus_n_3906743.html

Mellow
bloody spaniard Offline
#50 Posted: Fri, Sep 13 2013, 2:16 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
True, Robert. But I'm one of those "conspiracy theorists" who believe that the more powerful a Government is, the more likely they will become a thought police & come after those who disagree with them. Having said that, yes, respect for one another is important regardless of whether one worships the one true God or the moon but I thought we lived in a free society where we could burn things such as the flag AND books.
IMHO, we devolve into a Hitlerian/Bolshevik/Muslim society when we arrest a preacher or anyone for PLANNING to burn books & the purported hate crimes due to the book's title.

I think that Western society fears Islam greatly and thus treats it deferentially. This man, like him or not, is not cowed by them.
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