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Last post 10 years ago by jpotts. 27 replies replies.
Ok, I'll write an outright inflammatory post...
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jpotts Offline
#1 Posted: Fri, Oct 4 2013, 2:42 PM EST
Joined: 06-14-2006
Posts: 28,811
I don't get the outrage of federal workers not getting paid.

You start up a company of your own. Do you get paid right off the bat? For the most part, nope.

You work for a start-up company, do you get a steady paycheck? Nope.

And if you work for a start-up company, do you get any guarantee you'll get compensated for when the company becomes successful? Nope.

And as a private sector employee, do you get the benefits that government workers get? Double nopety-nope.

This is the type of stuff people in the private sector have to deal with every day. It is fairly commonplace. Yeah the government being shut down is an inconvenience, but it is no more of an inconvenience than what private sector workers have to contend with day-in and day-out. From my perspective, and some exposure to the public sector, you should be glad to get the benes and pay you get because you're not going to get that anywhere else.

Furthermore, with 17 trillion in debt hanging over this nation's head - what do you think will happen to your pensions if that debt can no longer be serviced? As it stands right now, state and local public sector employees are learning the hard way that when the government runs up its bills, the first hit they are going to take is on their pensions.

Hate the Republicans all you want (I'm not much of a fan for them either nowadays), but if something isn't done, it is all going to come crashing down.
Abrignac Offline
#2 Posted: Fri, Oct 4 2013, 2:51 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
This should provide ample weekend entertainment. Who has the popcorn, who has the beer?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#3 Posted: Fri, Oct 4 2013, 2:52 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
Why am I paying taxes to a governement that is out of service?

I want a refund

Day 4 of IDGAF!
bloody spaniard Offline
#4 Posted: Fri, Oct 4 2013, 3:57 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
I still feel their pain, jpotts... BUT you've said what most of us small business owners have been preaching all along. Aside from selling our homes, canceling our health coverages, depleting our savings/pensions and a few sundry social safety nets which are temporary and pay little... this is how many "movers and shakers" in the private sector live.
bloody spaniard Offline
#5 Posted: Fri, Oct 4 2013, 3:59 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Think of it as helping maintain services that help mostly the young, infirm, & old, DMV
DrMaddVibe Offline
#6 Posted: Fri, Oct 4 2013, 4:14 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
Broke is broke. There...I said it.
DadZilla3 Offline
#7 Posted: Fri, Oct 4 2013, 4:47 PM EST
Joined: 01-17-2009
Posts: 4,633
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Broke is broke. There...I said it.

We are a long long way past being merely broke.
fiddler898 Offline
#8 Posted: Fri, Oct 4 2013, 4:51 PM EST
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,782
Well, first of all, Federal workers are not self employed, so this is apples & oranges. Second, sounds like jpotts needs a group hug.

(({ }))
fiddler898 Offline
#9 Posted: Fri, Oct 4 2013, 4:52 PM EST
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,782
^^^ Sorry, forgot to say I'm classified as self employed.
Bur Offline
#10 Posted: Fri, Oct 4 2013, 5:18 PM EST
Joined: 07-31-2012
Posts: 5,638
Jpotts et al, it's not that some federal employees and contractors are furloughed, it's that they (since my contract is still paying I THINK-working at risk....) don't know when they are going back to work. I don't get compensated for the risk you take as a small business owner, so I won't reap any rewards-just a paycheck for my labor. If you, a big company or the federal government needs my labor, then pay me for it. If not, lay me off/fire me so I can either get another job or start my own business.

My furloughed or "shutdown" friends can't get other jobs-would you hire someone who might be able to re-join their career Monday? Oh, and some miss the cut-off for unemployment benefits by a few hundred dollars as retired E-6s after 20 years in the military.

And don't think I don't know this is about to bankrupt a whole bunch of small-businesses that had government contracts set aside "to benefit them." Got friends making payroll off credit cards routinely when DoD challenges invoices.

Don't bogart the popcorn, azzhats.
Billman Offline
#11 Posted: Fri, Oct 4 2013, 5:33 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2013
Posts: 82
Beer here! Ice cold beer!!!!
dharbolt Offline
#12 Posted: Fri, Oct 4 2013, 7:11 PM EST
Joined: 08-03-2013
Posts: 6,931
Beer And popcorn this should be a good one
HockeyDad Offline
#13 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 7:06 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
Bur wrote:
My furloughed or "shutdown" friends can't get other jobs-would you hire someone who might be able to re-join their career Monday?



I wouldn't hire them because I know that just as soon as the trough is open they're going to run back to it. Not a single Federal worker is going to quit over this shutdown. The government knows it. We know it.

A private sector corporation would be almost immediately thrown into bankruptcy if they did this stunt. Creditors would freeze lines, employees would quit, customers would flee.
JB113 Offline
#14 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 9:55 AM EST
Joined: 04-20-2013
Posts: 481
Hockey dad, you're wrong. The agency I work for has seen 3 people leave from my location alone.
You can't compare being a federal employee to being an employee of a startup company. I've been with the government for nearly 10 years and have nothing to do with passing the budget. Why does my family need to go without a paycheck for who knows how long simply because a handful of idiots can't get their $hit together & share the sandbox? I doubt that any of the employees at any private company would tolerate being told "I'll pay you when I can, I don't know how long it'll be. But no, you can go find another job until then. If you don't show up tomorrow, you're fired."
Despite what many people want to believe, the VAST majority of federal employees are not independently wealthy and live paycheck to paycheck. In fact, quite a few of us don't make much at all (entry level with my agency is around $30k, prorated to part time status working less than 50% so about $15k). Missing even 1 paycheck is going to have a very real impact on us very quickly. Since we're "essential", we have to report or face termination, so its not like we can go find another job until the budget/cr is passed.
HockeyDad Offline
#15 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 11:23 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
JB113 wrote:
Hockey dad, you're wrong. The agency I work for has seen 3 people leave from my location alone.
You can't compare being a federal employee to being an employee of a startup company. I've been with the government for nearly 10 years and have nothing to do with passing the budget. Why does my family need to go without a paycheck for who knows how long simply because a handful of idiots can't get their $hit together & share the sandbox? I doubt that any of the employees at any private company would tolerate being told "I'll pay you when I can, I don't know how long it'll be. But no, you can go find another job until then. If you don't show up tomorrow, you're fired."
Despite what many people want to believe, the VAST majority of federal employees are not independently wealthy and live paycheck to paycheck. In fact, quite a few of us don't make much at all (entry level with my agency is around $30k, prorated to part time status working less than 50% so about $15k). Missing even 1 paycheck is going to have a very real impact on us very quickly. Since we're "essential", we have to report or face termination, so its not like we can go find another job until the budget/cr is passed.



Three people have quit in the last 4 days? Really? Good for them although I find that a little hard to believe. That is the only way the government will learn they can't do this crap so I hope they did quit this week. I hope everybody in your entire agency quits on Monday.

I never compared federal employees with a startup company. A much better comparison would be to compare to IBM, GE, ExxonMobil, or Microsoft. Monster companies. As big as they are, their employees would not tolerate this crap.

The VAST majority of ALL employees are not independently wealthy and live paycheck to paycheck. The government can do this to federal employees because they know they won't quit. I empathize with your situation. It sucks being a pawn.
JB113 Offline
#16 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 11:31 AM EST
Joined: 04-20-2013
Posts: 481
Sorry, I didn't direct my second point to the OP as I intended to. His first 3 points were comparing fed workers to private sector startups.

But yea, 3 in 4 days. Whether or not you want to believe it is irrelevant.
teedubbya Offline
#17 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 3:02 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I was talking to one if the officers at Ft. Leavenworth who works with a mix of military and civilian employees. The civilians are not getting paid but are expected to report. According to him if they are one minute late they will be fired. They just fired a fifteen year employee for being 5 minutes late.

Sounds odd to me and I'm glad my shop isn't like that. But that's what he said (bs or not). He didn't seam to be joking.
teedubbya Offline
#18 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 3:06 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
As for the op, I'm not taking the bait. I'm not sure even Potts believes what he types at times. I just think he wants a reaction.

I long ago forgave Potts absurdity by considering his situation. He is surrounded by by far more lib whackos than any of the rest of us and prolly the only defense is go full on crazy in the other direction. I would too. There are no adults in his area. It's like a political children of the corn.
bloody spaniard Offline
#19 Posted: Sun, Oct 6 2013, 5:09 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
A conciliatory and unconditional surrender from TW if I've ever heard one!Applause
See? Don't you feel the bigger man for it? (or something like that)
ZRX1200 Offline
#20 Posted: Sun, Oct 6 2013, 6:11 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
He laid that golden fiddle on the ground at JPotts feet, because he knew that he'd been beat.
Abrignac Offline
#21 Posted: Sun, Oct 6 2013, 6:13 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
ZRX1200 wrote:
He laid that golden fiddle on the ground at JPotts feet, because he knew that he'd been beat.


Jeff said, "TW, just come on back if you ever wanna try again,
'Cause I've told you once--you son of a bitch--I'm the best there's ever been."
jpotts Offline
#22 Posted: Mon, Oct 7 2013, 4:25 PM EST
Joined: 06-14-2006
Posts: 28,811
fiddler898 wrote:
Well, first of all, Federal workers are not self employed, so this is apples & oranges. Second, sounds like jpotts needs a group hug.

(({ }))



Never said "self employed." I've worked as an employee for several start-ups. You want a job and a promise of money down the road, you make sacrifices for the company. Pure and simple.

Why shouldn't federal workers do the same?
jpotts Offline
#23 Posted: Mon, Oct 7 2013, 4:29 PM EST
Joined: 06-14-2006
Posts: 28,811
Bur wrote:
Jpotts et al, it's not that some federal employees and contractors are furloughed, it's that they (since my contract is still paying I THINK-working at risk....) don't know when they are going back to work. I don't get compensated for the risk you take as a small business owner, so I won't reap any rewards-just a paycheck for my labor. If you, a big company or the federal government needs my labor, then pay me for it. If not, lay me off/fire me so I can either get another job or start my own business.

My furloughed or "shutdown" friends can't get other jobs-would you hire someone who might be able to re-join their career Monday? Oh, and some miss the cut-off for unemployment benefits by a few hundred dollars as retired E-6s after 20 years in the military.

And don't think I don't know this is about to bankrupt a whole bunch of small-businesses that had government contracts set aside "to benefit them." Got friends making payroll off credit cards routinely when DoD challenges invoices.

Don't bogart the popcorn, azzhats.



What do you think happened when GM got restructured by the government? You think everyone that was a supplier to GM, or a dealer for GM made out in the end?

Or when a company goes bankrupt? You think a bankruptcy judge makes sure everyone gets what they are owed?

Same thing, different application.
jpotts Offline
#24 Posted: Mon, Oct 7 2013, 4:36 PM EST
Joined: 06-14-2006
Posts: 28,811
teedubbya wrote:
I was talking to one if the officers at Ft. Leavenworth who works with a mix of military and civilian employees. The civilians are not getting paid but are expected to report. According to him if they are one minute late they will be fired. They just fired a fifteen year employee for being 5 minutes late.

Sounds odd to me and I'm glad my shop isn't like that. But that's what he said (bs or not). He didn't seam to be joking.


I've been in a couple of those situations. I'll give you a good, albeit moderate example.

I worked at a company where I literally pulled their Windows offering out of the garbage. I spent maybe six months working late, fixing all of the really, really bad areas and made the thing competitive. And yet, when my review came up, I was criticized for not consistently being in on time, and maybe coming in 5 to 10 minutes late.

The never bothered to acknowledge that I usually worked 1 to 2 hour overtime on salary, which means no overtime pay. No big deal on my end, as I don't mind putting in the hours.

The last review I had, I called their bluff. I basically sad if it was THAT bad, the should fire me. And they back-peddled immediately.

The example you cited is one of the reasons why I no longer bother with working with the public sector. If they are going to get all p*ssy with me over 5 minutes, they ain't worth my time. There are other people out there who will pay just as much, and give me less crap over my "eccentricities" (of which there are many).
HockeyDad Offline
#25 Posted: Mon, Oct 7 2013, 4:40 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
A 15 year employee fired for being 5 minutes late? Not even a slight possibility that was the true reason.
jpotts Offline
#26 Posted: Mon, Oct 7 2013, 4:46 PM EST
Joined: 06-14-2006
Posts: 28,811
JB113 wrote:
Hockey dad, you're wrong. The agency I work for has seen 3 people leave from my location alone.
You can't compare being a federal employee to being an employee of a startup company. I've been with the government for nearly 10 years and have nothing to do with passing the budget. Why does my family need to go without a paycheck for who knows how long simply because a handful of idiots can't get their $hit together & share the sandbox? I doubt that any of the employees at any private company would tolerate being told "I'll pay you when I can, I don't know how long it'll be. But no, you can go find another job until then. If you don't show up tomorrow, you're fired."
Despite what many people want to believe, the VAST majority of federal employees are not independently wealthy and live paycheck to paycheck. In fact, quite a few of us don't make much at all (entry level with my agency is around $30k, prorated to part time status working less than 50% so about $15k). Missing even 1 paycheck is going to have a very real impact on us very quickly. Since we're "essential", we have to report or face termination, so its not like we can go find another job until the budget/cr is passed.



Let's be frank: you KNOW you're going to get paid. So that is a non-starter. When they pass a budget, you'll get compensated.

And yes, there are people who will work without pay in the private sector on the promise of payment down the road. I've actually been there. So don't tell me it doesn't happen. And yeah, if I no longer reported for work, they could fire me outright.

Likewise, they can fire me if they don't like the color of my hair. And I've been in those situations before too.

So, you are not making your case at all...
jpotts Offline
#27 Posted: Mon, Oct 7 2013, 4:50 PM EST
Joined: 06-14-2006
Posts: 28,811
teedubbya wrote:
As for the op, I'm not taking the bait. I'm not sure even Potts believes what he types at times. I just think he wants a reaction.

I long ago forgave Potts absurdity by considering his situation. He is surrounded by by far more lib whackos than any of the rest of us and prolly the only defense is go full on crazy in the other direction. I would too. There are no adults in his area. It's like a political children of the corn.



I have no idea what you are talking about. Most of the people I work with in the technology arena are very conservative in nature.

If you think it is all greasy-haired, femmy glasses, hipster wannabes doing this kind of stuff, you are in for a rude awakening. Those are the guys who generally suck at what they do. And yeah, I've worked with a few of them as well. Microsoft is loaded to the gills with 'em. Hence some of the software they produce...
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