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NBC: Police Remove Vietnam War Veterans at Memorial Wall
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Abrignac Offline
#1 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 4:51 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
NBC: Police Remove Vietnam War Veterans at Memorial Wall

Via William Jacobson, NBC's affiliate in Washington, D.C. reports that police ordered tourists and Vietnam war veterans who were visiting the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall to leave the memorial at one point on Friday.

After one group of veterans went around the barricade, "the park ranger told them the wall was closed," NBC's Mark Seagraves reported. "Later another group of vets showed up and moved the barricades. At that point, the memorial filled with vets and tourists. That's when police came and moved everyone out."

The Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall is a black granite outdoor wall on which the names of the 58,272 service members who died or were unaccounted for during the Vietnam war are inscribed.

It takes more manpower and costs the government more money to close down an outdoor wall than to let people walk past it and pay their respects.

The Obama administration has been very selective in devoting resources to shutting down memorials.



http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/nbc-police-remove-vietnam-war-veterans-memorial-wall_759267.html

***************************************************************************************

But, Camp David remains open as the President sits for a portrait.
borndead1 Offline
#2 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 5:17 PM EST
Joined: 11-07-2006
Posts: 5,216
Funny how everything that is in "shutdown" is the stuff that has the maximum shock value to voters.


Meanwhile, foreign aid is unaffected, the NSA is still spying on us, and the massive military-industrial complex is still humming along.
Abrignac Offline
#3 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 5:22 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
borndead1 wrote:
Funny how everything that is in "shutdown" is the stuff that has the maximum shock value to voters.


Meanwhile, foreign aid is unaffected, the NSA is still spying on us, and the massive military-industrial complex is still humming along.



Imagine that. But, then again, I've been saying as much all along. Time to give Washington, DC an enema so ALL of the chit can float down the Potomac and far out to sea.
Gene363 Offline
#4 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 5:52 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838
Despicable government goons following orders from above to deprive citizens from their own property.

There is no reason not to allow people to view a memorial, especially the Vietnam War Memorial. They don't need any government azzhats there while they walk down a path, read the names on the memorial and shed some tears.
teedubbya Offline
#5 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 6:32 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Blame the politicians not the folks doing their jobs.
Abrignac Offline
#6 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 6:35 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
There are some fine people who work for the government who take great pride in their job.
Gene363 Offline
#7 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 6:43 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838
Gene363 wrote:
Despicable government goons following orders from above...


teedubbya wrote:
Blame the politicians not the folks doing their jobs.


Abrignac wrote:
There are some fine people who work for the government who take great pride in their job.


"...following orders from above......" wasn't an excuse for some despots back in the forties.
teedubbya Offline
#8 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 6:45 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Good lord.
Abrignac Offline
#9 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 6:48 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
Gene363 wrote:

"...following orders from above......" wasn't an excuse for some despots back in the forties.


Not everyone who works for the government are jack-booted thugs.
teedubbya Offline
#10 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 6:52 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
There is no relativity at all. It's an insult to the memory of those harmed by the Nazi not to mention just plain silly.
teedubbya Offline
#11 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 6:55 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
If we've evolved to the point that not being able to visit a monument for a short period of time is the equivalent to having your family forced into a camp, having all your possessions taken then systematically killed when you are no longer of value all based on your religion then I guess it's a good thing.

How absurd.
Gene363 Offline
#12 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 7:01 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838
Quite the opposite, the monuments are the property of the citizens. Our government provocatively spent additional money to block the access to the public. Like a two year old grabbing a toy for spite. Meanwhile, a certain government golf course was open. You can bluster all you like about the comparison, closing the monuments is still a despicable act.
teedubbya Offline
#13 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 7:05 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
No one is saying different. Blame the politicians. You are the one blustering and being melodramatic.
Abrignac Offline
#14 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 7:07 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
Gene363 wrote:
Quite the opposite, the monuments are the property of the citizens. Our government provocatively spent additional money to block the access to the public. Like a two year old grabbing a toy for spite. Meanwhile, a certain government golf course was open. You can bluster all you like about the comparison, closing the monuments is still a despicable act.


Blame the administration. The employees are following orders trying to hold onto their jobs. No different than a private sector employee following orders even if they disagree in principle.
Gene363 Offline
#15 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 7:08 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838
Abrignac wrote:
Not everyone who works for the government are jack-booted thugs.


Where do you read all or everyone?
teedubbya Offline
#16 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 7:14 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I'd bet most people working for any organization have to do things they don't want to at times. You can't just tell your employer you'll do whatever you want to regardless of what they think.

You can certainly quit. You can also whistleblow if something is agregios.

I don't remember any crimes of this level at the neuremburg trials.
teedubbya Offline
#17 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 7:15 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Not gonna bother correcting spellins
Gene363 Offline
#18 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 7:20 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838

They don't even close the monuments at night. There are tours to view them as they are lighted at night.

Sure it's the administration that ordered them to be closed. I made that clear in my first entry. Like it or not, the people closing that monument are the minions of the current administration, hired goons.

See: http://www.letsgo-dc.com/tours/night-tour.html
Abrignac Offline
#19 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 7:23 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
Gene363 wrote:
Where do you read all or everyone?


Sorry, I guess I should have thrown the sarcasm flag. But, since we are on the subject, I think a reasonable person could infer from the tone of the posts you have made lately in other threads regarding government workers you hold the vast majority of them in low esteem.

FWIW, I am a government worker who straps a gun to my side when I go to work knowing that I may have to put myself in harms way so others can be safe. My father devoted his entire career to helping others through both government service and charitable works. My BIL is one of a number of people who take great pride in supporting the infrastructure that ordinary Americans like you and I use to make our views known to our elected officials in Washington, DC. Like many tax paying Americans we chose government service as a career path. I could name more, but I think my point is quite clear.

Perhaps you don't appreciate our service, or maybe you don't even think it's needed. That's your right. A right I supported while serving 4 years of active duty military service and 2 years of active reserve service. But, as much as it's your right to disparage government workers, its my right to call you on it.
Abrignac Offline
#20 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 7:25 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
Gene363 wrote:

They don't even close the monuments at night. There are tours to view them as they are lighted at night.

Sure it's the administration that ordered them to be closed. I made that clear in my first entry. Like it or not, the people closing that monument are the minions of the current administration, hired goons.

See: http://www.letsgo-dc.com/tours/night-tour.html


...and you are a pompous azz.
teedubbya Offline
#21 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 7:50 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Not to mention an idiot. I guess police and soldiers need to start questioning their orders no matter how big or small to decide if they agree with them and if they choose to follow them or not.

This one is on the politicians (blame Obama) not the common joe.

What a maroon.
teedubbya Offline
#22 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 7:52 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Or better yet we need each admin to bring in their own enforcers so we can make those absurd statements.
Gene363 Offline
#23 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:01 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838
Abrignac wrote:
Sorry, I guess I should have thrown the sarcasm flag. But, since we are on the subject, I think a reasonable person could infer from the tone of the posts you have made lately in other threads regarding government workers you hold the vast majority of them in low esteem.

FWIW, I am a government worker who straps a gun to my side when I go to work knowing that I may have to put myself in harms way so others can be safe. My father devoted his entire career to helping others through both government service and charitable works. My BIL is one of a number of people who take great pride in supporting the infrastructure that ordinary Americans like you and I use to make our views known to our elected officials in Washington, DC. Like many tax paying Americans we chose government service as a career path. I could name more, but I think my point is quite clear.

Perhaps you don't appreciate our service, or maybe you don't even think it's needed. That's your right. A right I supported while serving 4 years of active duty military service and 2 years of active reserve service. But, as much as it's your right to disparage government workers, its my right to call you on it.


Actually I do, and thank you for your service. For many years I was a government worker. After several years of watching the incompetent promoted and the hard workers held back to do the work. Each day I worked I focused on the things I could do to make things better. I did my best to ignore the stupidity and work around the incompetence, but I just could not stand it any longer and went to the private side. It's not perfect, but they were happy with hard work, reward me with raises and weeded out the zeros.

For the last 20+ years I worked on a government site as a government contractor. I have knowledge of the government workers I have come in contact with. I can directly speak of them and merely extrapolate for some others. There are indeed some really good government employees. There are also some that have never worked on the private side and think they are doing a wonderful job; they would never make it in a job with hard requirements, budgets and over site. It's not necessarily their fault, what they do or do not do is a condition of their employment, the bureaucrats running their department. Then there are the golden handcuffs: better security than the private sector, often better pay than the private sector and scant consequences for poor performance. There are also some that have the, 'we are the government' and know what is best for all the citizens.

Most of them will speak of funding from Congress or a government department as if the government had their own money for them to spend as they see fit. Seldom if ever is it put in terms tax money extracted from the taxpayers. It's as if they say, I work for the government, I need money because i want to do XYZ, go get more.
Gene363 Offline
#24 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:03 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838
teedubbya wrote:
Or better yet we need each admin to bring in their own enforcers so we can make those absurd statements.


Yeah, if your pitiful personal attack doesn't succeed, call the administrator, pathetic.
teedubbya Offline
#25 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:06 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I don't understand but that's probably a good thing lol.
teedubbya Offline
#26 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:11 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Either way I agree with you gene on the closing of the monuments. I just disagree with your smearing of the "goons". Of even guess most of them are probably similar in political philosophy to you. You just have your red obamahatin glasses on and it's spilling over lol.
Abrignac Offline
#27 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:17 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
Gene363 wrote:
Actually I do, and thank you for your service. For many years I was a government worker. After several years of watching the incompetent promoted and the hard workers held back to do the work. Each day I worked I focused on the things I could do to make things better. I did my best to ignore the stupidity and work around the incompetence, but I just could not stand it any longer and went to the private side. It's not perfect, but they were happy with hard work, reward me with raises and weeded out the zeros.

For the last 20+ years I worked on a government site as a government contractor. I have knowledge of the government workers I have come in contact with. I can directly speak of them and merely extrapolate for some others. There are indeed some really good government employees. There are also some that have never worked on the private side and think they are doing a wonderful job; they would never make it in a job with hard requirements, budgets and over site. It's not necessarily their fault, what they do or do not do is a condition of their employment, the bureaucrats running their department. Then there are the golden handcuffs: better security than the private sector, often better pay than the private sector and scant consequences for poor performance. There are also some that have the, 'we are the government' and know what is best for all the citizens.

Most of them will speak of funding from Congress or a government department as if the government had their own money for them to spend as they see fit. Seldom if ever is it put in terms tax money extracted from the taxpayers. It's as if they say, I work for the government, I need money because i want to do XYZ, go get more.



Very little that I disagree with here. You are absolutely correct in terms of the spend it or loose it mentality. As in any large organization, you will find exceptional, reprehensible and all shapes in between.

FWIW, I too share your contempt for the closing of the monuments. If one wanted to save money simply leave them un-manned. Visit at your own risk as it's your property anyway.

But, to call these park rangers "goons" and compare them to those who interred Americans of Japanese ancestry is simply out of bounds. These rangers deprived no one of their freedom or imprisoned no one they simply followed lawful yet contemptible orders whether they agreed with them or not. Failure to do so could very well have cost them their job at the hands of the very dishonorable people who made those equally dishonorable decisions.
teedubbya Offline
#28 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:22 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I think gene just out kicked his coverage a bit and isn't the type to ever admit it.

Sound like we all agree with the foolishness of closing the monuments etc.

These guys were likely there prior to Obama and will be after. They will probably be heros or goons at any given time based on politics which is pretty shallow.
teedubbya Offline
#29 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:22 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I think gene just out kicked his coverage a bit and isn't the type to ever admit it.

Sound like we all agree with the foolishness of closing the monuments etc.

These guys were likely there prior to Obama and will be after. They will probably be heros or goons at any given time based on politics which is pretty shallow.
teedubbya Offline
#30 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:23 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I think gene just out kicked his coverage a bit and isn't the type to ever admit it.

Sound like we all agree with the foolishness of closing the monuments etc.

These guys were likely there prior to Obama and will be after. They will probably be heros or goons at any given time based on politics which is pretty shallow.
Gene363 Offline
#31 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:23 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838
teedubbya wrote:
Either way I agree with you gene on the closing of the monuments. I just disagree with your smearing of the "goons". Of even guess most of them are probably similar in political philosophy to you. You just have your red obamahatin glasses on and it's spilling over lol.


Sometime calling a spade a spade isn't pleasant. I don't dislike the workers, I dislike the job they did closing the monument. I'm sure they had sick leave they could have used.

Now would you be as philosophical about scab workers during a strike? Sarcasm
teedubbya Offline
#32 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:23 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I think gene just out kicked his coverage a bit and isn't the type to ever admit it.

Sound like we all agree with the foolishness of closing the monuments etc.

These guys were likely there prior to Obama and will be after. They will probably be heros or goons at any given time based on politics which is pretty shallow.
teedubbya Offline
#33 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:23 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I think gene just out kicked his coverage a bit and isn't the type to ever admit it.

Sound like we all agree with the foolishness of closing the monuments etc.

These guys were likely there prior to Obama and will be after. They will probably be heros or goons at any given time based on politics which is pretty shallow.
Abrignac Offline
#34 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:23 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
Group hug.
teedubbya Offline
#35 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:23 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Lol. Triple post. Wow.
Abrignac Offline
#36 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:27 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
Gene363 wrote:
Sometime calling a spade a spade isn't pleasant. I don't dislike the workers, I dislike the job they did closing the monument. I'm sure they had sick leave they could have used.

Now would you be as philosophical about scab workers during a strike? Sarcasm



Before one looks a gift horse in the mouth, the need to ask themselves if there is someone out there who is in worse shape than them and are they prepared to hand their position over to that person.
teedubbya Offline
#37 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:31 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Sick leave is not an option for most at the time and can result in loss of job. That just happened at fy Leavenworth on Thursday.

I caught the sarcasm but for the record I'm anti union and don't really see the correlation with scabs.
teedubbya Offline
#38 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:32 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
You don't dislike them but called them goons. I bet you are a silver to unglued sweet talker lol.
teedubbya Offline
#39 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:34 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
All that aside I get where you are coming from gene. I just can't judge those individuals like you do.
teedubbya Offline
#40 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:36 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Silver tongued. Damn autocorrect.
Abrignac Offline
#41 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:39 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
Quote:
“It’s a cheap way to deal with the situation,” an angry Park Service ranger in Washington says of the harassment. “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting.”


http://freebeacon.com/park-rangers-ordered-to-make-life-difficult-during-shutdown/

#######################################################

I'm guessing this view is shared by more than a few rangers. But, we really have no idea if these folks could have called in sick or taken leave without jeopardizing their jobs.

It's ok Gene. You can admit you drove off the cliff on this one. God knows I taken that "Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead approach." We will still love you in the morning.
Gene363 Offline
#42 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:41 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838
Abrignac wrote:
Very little that I disagree with here. You are absolutely correct in terms of the spend it or loose it mentality. As in any large organization, you will find exceptional, reprehensible and all shapes in between.

FWIW, I too share your contempt for the closing of the monuments. If one wanted to save money simply leave them un-manned. Visit at your own risk as it's your property anyway.

But, to call these park rangers "goons" and compare them to those who interred Americans of Japanese ancestry is simply out of bounds. These rangers deprived no one of their freedom or imprisoned no one they simply followed lawful yet contemptible orders whether they agreed with them or not. Failure to do so could very well have cost them their job at the hands of the very dishonorable people who made those equally dishonorable decisions.


Goon: a bully or thug, esp. one hired to terrorize or do away with opposition.

The guys, 'following orders' I referred to were the Germans, hence TD's outrage. FWIW, I agree your description of that interment. I know people that lived in those camps.
teedubbya Offline
#43 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:45 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
The thing I love about this place is you can completely agree on something and still argue like hell.

I got a fly it's been fun.
Gene363 Offline
#44 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:49 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838
Yup.
Abrignac Offline
#45 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:53 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
Gene363 wrote:

Goon: a bully or thug, esp. one hired to terrorize or do away with opposition.

The guys, 'following orders' I referred to were the Germans, hence TD's outrage. FWIW, I agree your description of that interment. I know people that lived in those camps.



Hit the brakes Gene you're about to fly over another cliff.

From Merriam-Webster's online dictionary: GOON
1: a stupid person
2: a : a man hired to terrorize or eliminate opponents, b : enforcer

To call someone stupid based soley on one action is, for lack of a better world: STUPID. I don't think you are stupid, so we'll toss that one out.

I'm sure neither you nor anyone else here believe the park rangers were hired to simply to terrorize. So I'm thinking we can eliminate that. Finally, I seen some rather diminutive park rangers and don't believe that would be considered an enforcer. Perhaps a tour guide, but not an enforcer.

Maybe we can call them pawns.

From Merriam-Webster's online dictionary: PAWN
1: one of the chessmen of least value having the power to move only forward ordinarily one square at a time, to capture only diagonally forward, and to be promoted to any piece except a king upon reaching the eighth rank

2: one that can be used to further the purposes of another
Abrignac Offline
#46 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:54 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
Damn I missed the love.
Abrignac Offline
#47 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 8:55 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
I guess there's one more thing I can add to my bucket list. A mini herf with Tdub and Gene.
ZRX1200 Offline
#48 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 9:01 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
You call Gene.

I'm packing teedubya's schit right now.

Abrignac Offline
#49 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 9:07 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
ZRX1200 wrote:
You call Gene.

I'm packing teedubya's schit right now.




You're a little late for the party Bro.
DrafterX Offline
#50 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 9:46 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Freaks.... Mellow
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