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Last post 10 years ago by pdxstogieman. 34 replies replies.
ACLU challenges Arkansas voter ID law
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Burner02 Offline
#1 Posted: Wed, Apr 16 2014, 4:39 PM EST
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,884
Associated Press - LITTLE ROCK, Ark. – "A civil liberties group filed suit Wednesday to block a new Arkansas law requiring voters to show photo identification at the polls before it is enforced for the first time state-wide in the primary election next month.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Arkansas filed the suit in Pulaski County court on behalf of four voters it says will be harmed by the law, which was approved by the Republican-led Legislature last year. Democratic Gov. Mike Beebe vetoed the measure, but lawmakers overrode his objection with simple majority votes in the House and Senate.

"The Arkansas Constitution specifically outlines the qualifications needed to vote. The state should be ashamed of making it harder for eligible voters from exercising this most fundamental right than our own Constitution requires," Rita Sklar, executive director if the ACLU of Arkansas, said in a statement."






You can only vote once if it really is you!
Abrignac Offline
#2 Posted: Wed, Apr 16 2014, 5:34 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,288
ID is needed to:
drive
purchase alcohol
purchase a firearm
rent an automobile
go to an "R" rated movie
purchase tobacco products
attend school
give blood
purchase or rent a home
buy cold medicine
gain employment
open a bank account
cash a check
apply for government benefits
get on an airplane
get a passport

I'm sure I left a few things out.

But, not to vote? Seems like a non-issue to me.
HockeyDad Offline
#3 Posted: Wed, Apr 16 2014, 5:41 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,142
Abrignac wrote:
ID is needed to:
drive
purchase alcohol
purchase a firearm
rent an automobile
go to an "R" rated movie
purchase tobacco products
attend school
give blood
purchase or rent a home
buy cold medicine
gain employment
open a bank account
cash a check
apply for government benefits
get on an airplane
get a passport

I'm sure I left a few things out.

But, not to vote? Seems like a non-issue to me.



Minorities dont do any of those things. That is why this is voter suppression.
Abrignac Offline
#4 Posted: Wed, Apr 16 2014, 5:50 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,288
HockeyDad wrote:
Minorities dont do any of those things. That is why this is voter suppression.


You really are on an island all by yourself....Sarcasm
frankj1 Offline
#5 Posted: Wed, Apr 16 2014, 8:41 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
simple solution-
issue voter picture IDs for people who register to vote and do not have another one, like a drivers' license etc.
teedubbya Offline
#6 Posted: Wed, Apr 16 2014, 8:45 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I'd still like to see the problem that needs the solution. Otherwise it's a waste of time.
frankj1 Offline
#7 Posted: Wed, Apr 16 2014, 9:06 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
teedubbya wrote:
I'd still like to see the problem that needs the solution. Otherwise it's a waste of time.

well, in reality you are correct. just figured my idea would end this nonsense.
z6joker9 Offline
#8 Posted: Wed, Apr 16 2014, 9:19 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2011
Posts: 5,902
Abrignac wrote:
ID is needed to:
drive
purchase alcohol
purchase a firearm
rent an automobile
go to an "R" rated movie
purchase tobacco products
attend school
give blood
purchase or rent a home
buy cold medicine
gain employment
open a bank account
cash a check
apply for government benefits
get on an airplane
get a passport

I'm sure I left a few things out.

But, not to vote? Seems like a non-issue to me.


It can get really complicated, but a lot of those things deal with differences between identification, authorization, and authentication. You also have to consider that you have a right to vote, but not get on an airplane or purchase alcohol.

Regardless of all of that, Voter ID reduces voter fraud at the cost of a few people not being able to vote that should have been allowed. The exact amounts of each are difficult to ascertain. What is certain is that it disproportionately affects minorities and the elderly. Some people believe it is better to allow a small amount of fraud so as not to restrict someone's right to vote, while others believe that fraud should be prevented even at the cost of restricting a few rights. Some people believe it's just a poll tax in disguise, and it doesn't matter what it would do for fraud, as it is unconstitutional.

I'm not advocating either position just trying to explain both sides. I don't really have strong feelings either way.
Abrignac Offline
#9 Posted: Wed, Apr 16 2014, 9:38 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,288
Voting is overrated anyway. Very little difference between R's & D's. Everyone below the 1%'ers get screwed regardless of who's in control.
Homebrew Offline
#10 Posted: Wed, Apr 16 2014, 10:00 PM EST
Joined: 02-11-2003
Posts: 11,885
I live in Arkansass,
And there are a lot of people who don't have a picture ID. That said, I really don't have a problem with it. I have a picture ID, and a voter registration card. Besides, I am more worried about fraud, after the people have voted.

Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)Beer
cacman Offline
#11 Posted: Fri, Apr 18 2014, 9:04 AM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
If I have to show a photo ID to buy groceries from Costco, then you should damn well have to show ID to vote!

The whole "effects minorities and the elderly" is a crock of sh|t!!! These minorities have no problem getting an ID to collect welfare or use their EBT card. The elderly have no problem getting their prescription drugs (oxy & such) from their pharmacy, which also requires ID for certain medicines.

Of course you "have the right to vote", as longs as you meet the requirements to do so legally in this country - like being a freakin legal citizen. They used to close the bars on election days to prevent politicians from buying drinks & votes. Now they just buy votes with free cell phones, internet service, and welfare.

The ACLU should get its head out if its own azz, instead of being up someone else's.
HockeyDad Offline
#12 Posted: Fri, Apr 18 2014, 10:38 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,142
I imagine a ballot in Arkansas just has pictures on it.
DadZilla3 Offline
#13 Posted: Fri, Apr 18 2014, 10:42 AM EST
Joined: 01-17-2009
Posts: 4,633
cacman wrote:
If I have to show a photo ID to buy groceries from Costco, then you should damn well have to show ID to vote!

The whole "effects minorities and the elderly" is a crock of sh|t!!! These minorities have no problem getting an ID to collect welfare or use their EBT card. The elderly have no problem getting their prescription drugs (oxy & such) from their pharmacy, which also requires ID for certain medicines.

Of course you "have the right to vote", as longs as you meet the requirements to do so legally in this country - like being a freakin legal citizen. They used to close the bars on election days to prevent politicians from buying drinks & votes. Now they just buy votes with free cell phones, internet service, and welfare.

The ACLU should get its head out if its own azz, instead of being up someone else's.


This. ThumpUp
HockeyDad Offline
#14 Posted: Fri, Apr 18 2014, 11:04 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,142
DadZilla3 wrote:
This. ThumpUp


Sure. Let him do all the writing.
victor809 Offline
#15 Posted: Fri, Apr 18 2014, 11:15 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Logically, I have no problem requiring ID for people to vote.
From a class perspective, I prefer anything that keeps those with less than me from voting.

However, there is a belief in America that every (non felon) citizen has the right to vote (no, this is not what the founding fathers wanted, they only wanted property owners) numerous Amendments to the constitution have consistently broadened voting rights to ensure that all races, classes and sexes have the right to vote in america, provided they are american citizens. While logically, ID requirements are not what an average person considers a barrier, they are a non-zero cost. This is some level of barrier for those with no funds, no home address etc.

But hey... like I said, from a class perspective I prefer they don't get to vote.

I just don't like people deluding themselves into thinking this is anything other than that.
frankj1 Offline
#16 Posted: Fri, Apr 18 2014, 12:11 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
HockeyDad wrote:
I imagine a ballot in Arkansas just has pictures on it.

you mean like the cash registers at McDonalds?
HockeyDad Offline
#17 Posted: Fri, Apr 18 2014, 12:16 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,142
frankj1 wrote:
you mean like the cash registers at McDonalds?



Yup. I don't know how they would do amendments and stuff. Maybe stick figures.
Buckwheat Offline
#18 Posted: Fri, Apr 18 2014, 12:29 PM EST
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
This is a solution looking for a problem. In person voter fraud is pretty rare in this country.

http://www.politifact.com/georgia/statements/2012/sep/19/naacp/-person-voter-fraud-very-rare-phenomenon/

All this law and others like it are doing is creating a political "talking point".
frankj1 Offline
#19 Posted: Fri, Apr 18 2014, 4:20 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
Buckwheat wrote:
This is a solution looking for a problem. In person voter fraud is pretty rare in this country.

http://www.politifact.com/georgia/statements/2012/sep/19/naacp/-person-voter-fraud-very-rare-phenomenon/

All this law and others like it are doing is creating a political "talking point".

and perpetuating class warfare.
frankj1 Offline
#20 Posted: Fri, Apr 18 2014, 4:21 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
HockeyDad wrote:
Yup. I don't know how they would do amendments and stuff. Maybe stick figures.

that's just so funny!
cacman Offline
#21 Posted: Sat, Apr 19 2014, 11:11 AM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Buckwheat wrote:
This is a solution looking for a problem. In person voter fraud is pretty rare in this country.

http://www.politifact.com/georgia/statements/2012/sep/19/naacp/-person-voter-fraud-very-rare-phenomenon/

All this law and others like it are doing is creating a political "talking point".

Voter fraud is becoming more relevant than you think, and most likely happens more often than the guberment and media would like you to know. Just because it MAY be rare does not mean measures should not be put in place to prevent it.

I find this story ironic, considering it's the same state that decided a presidential election:
Local NBC Investigation Discovers Dozens of Illegal Voters in Florida
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2014/03/19/fraud-local-nbc-investigation-discovers-dozens-of-illegal-voters-in-florida-n1811547

A couple more Florida examples:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/florida-voter-fraud

I fail to see how requiring someone to show a Voter ID perpetuates class warfare. The "poor" have no problem getting a drivers license, or a photo ID to buy alcohol and register for welfare.
TMCTLT Offline
#22 Posted: Sat, Apr 19 2014, 11:22 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
cacman wrote:
If I have to show a photo ID to buy groceries from Costco, then you should damn well have to show ID to vote!

The whole "effects minorities and the elderly" is a crock of sh|t!!! These minorities have no problem getting an ID to collect welfare or use their EBT card. The elderly have no problem getting their prescription drugs (oxy & such) from their pharmacy, which also requires ID for certain medicines.

Of course you "have the right to vote", as longs as you meet the requirements to do so legally in this country - like being a freakin legal citizen. They used to close the bars on election days to prevent politicians from buying drinks & votes. Now they just buy votes with free cell phones, internet service, and welfare.

The ACLU should get its head out if its own azz, instead of being up someone else's.




Dude when we meet ( yes it will happen ) I am gonna buy YOU your favorite cigar and cocktail Beer

Your ALL over THIS subject Herfing
gryphonms Offline
#23 Posted: Sat, Apr 19 2014, 11:26 AM EST
Joined: 04-14-2013
Posts: 1,983
The law only stated that a photo ID was required. This could be anything from a Costco membership card to a DMV ID card. They only reason that I can see someone not having any form of photo ID is they are to lazy to get it. Also before anyone states that the underprivileged do not have transportation let me state categorically that argument is irrelevant for the following reason. To vote you must have trandportation.!
jetblasted Offline
#24 Posted: Sat, Apr 19 2014, 2:18 PM EST
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
Abrignac wrote:
ID is needed to get on an airplane.


No it's not Mellow
Abrignac Offline
#25 Posted: Sat, Apr 19 2014, 4:01 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,288
jetblasted wrote:
No it's not Mellow


That's news to me. But, I'll defer to you since it's your field. I haven't flown in years, but from what family members have said, they've had to present id's.
victor809 Offline
#26 Posted: Sat, Apr 19 2014, 4:19 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I'm gonna throw a bs flag on the whole ground transportation thing gryphonms. That's only a valid argument out in the burbs. Plenty of people in the cities (poor or wealthy) don't bother with cars.voting booths are by district, so will be within blocks of your home... Whereas DMV locations are not frequently close.
Abrignac Offline
#27 Posted: Sat, Apr 19 2014, 5:49 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,288
gryphonms wrote:
The law only stated that a photo ID was required. This could be anything from a Costco membership card to a DMV ID card. They only reason that I can see someone not having any form of photo ID is they are to lazy to get it. Also before anyone states that the underprivileged do not have transportation let me state categorically that argument is irrelevant for the following reason. To vote you must have trandportation.!



Don't they bring folks in by the bus load, dead and alive?
dkeage Offline
#28 Posted: Sat, Apr 19 2014, 5:58 PM EST
Joined: 03-05-2004
Posts: 15,152
Abrignac wrote:
Don't they bring folks in by the bus load, dead and alive?

Can you say Nagin?
Abrignac Offline
#29 Posted: Sat, Apr 19 2014, 6:13 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,288
dkeage wrote:
Can you say Nagin?


hehehe
gryphonms Offline
#30 Posted: Sat, Apr 19 2014, 6:31 PM EST
Joined: 04-14-2013
Posts: 1,983
AB, your comment related to mine is correct. So they can buss them to the DMV to get a picture ID.
jetblasted Offline
#31 Posted: Mon, Apr 21 2014, 1:53 AM EST
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
Little known fact. You can fly domestic w/o an ID ... You'll have to go through an interrogation & cavity search but you can fly w/o an ID on a domestic flight.
pdxstogieman Offline
#32 Posted: Sat, Apr 26 2014, 5:00 AM EST
Joined: 10-04-2007
Posts: 5,219
victor809 wrote:
Logically, I have no problem requiring ID for people to vote.
From a class perspective, I prefer anything that keeps those with less than me from voting.

However, there is a belief in America that every (non felon) citizen has the right to vote (no, this is not what the founding fathers wanted, they only wanted property owners) numerous Amendments to the constitution have consistently broadened voting rights to ensure that all races, classes and sexes have the right to vote in america, provided they are american citizens. While logically, ID requirements are not what an average person considers a barrier, they are a non-zero cost. This is some level of barrier for those with no funds, no home address etc.

But hey... like I said, from a class perspective I prefer they don't get to vote.

I just don't like people deluding themselves into thinking this is anything other than that.


The founding fathers thought slavery was ok too. How far we have strayed from their ideals.
pdxstogieman Offline
#33 Posted: Sat, Apr 26 2014, 5:05 AM EST
Joined: 10-04-2007
Posts: 5,219
cacman wrote:
If I have to show a photo ID to buy groceries from Costco, then you should damn well have to show ID to vote!



People going into Costco and just eating the food samples without their Costco card was a much bigger problem than the government would lead you to believe. I saw something on a TV show and an internet blog that said that so it must be true.
pdxstogieman Offline
#34 Posted: Sat, Apr 26 2014, 5:09 AM EST
Joined: 10-04-2007
Posts: 5,219
jetblasted wrote:
Little known fact. You can fly domestic w/o an ID ... You'll have to go through an interrogation & cavity search but you can fly w/o an ID on a domestic flight.


That's the TSA Pre-check program. Open wide.
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