America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 9 years ago by Bitter Klinger. 36 replies replies.
IRS says it cannot locate Lois Lerner emails prior to 2011
Burner02 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,884
FoxNews.com - The Internal Revenue Service told Congress Friday it has lost a trove of emails to and from Lois Lerner, a central figure in the agency's Tea Party controversy, sparking outrage from congressional investigators who have been probing the agency for more than a year.

The IRS said it cannot locate many of Lerner's emails prior to 2011 because her computer crashed during the summer of that year.

Lerner headed the IRS division that processed applications for tax-exempt status. The IRS acknowledged last year that agents had improperly scrutinized applications for tax-exempt status by Tea Party and other conservative groups.

Republican congressional leaders were incensed.

"The fact that I am just learning about this, over a year into the investigation, is completely unacceptable and now calls into question the credibility of the IRS's response to congressional inquiries," said Rep. Dave Camp, R-Mich., chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee. "There needs to be an immediate investigation and forensic audit by Department of Justice as well as the inspector general."

Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, said he was "greatly troubled" that the agency didn't notify Congress when they first became aware of the computer problem.

“Today’s admission by the IRS that they cannot produce Lois Lerner’s emails is an outrageous impediment to our investigation," Hatch said in a statement. "Even more egregious is the fact we are learning about this a full year after our initial request to provide the Committee with any and all documents relating to our investigation."

The Ways and Means Committee is one of three congressional committees investigating the IRS over its handling of Tea Party applications from 2010 to 2012. The Justice Department and the IRS inspector general are also investigating.

Congressional investigators have shown that IRS officials in Washington were closely involved in the handling of Tea Party applications, many of which languished for more than a year without action. But so far, they have not publicly produced evidence that anyone outside the agency directed the targeting or even knew about it.

If anyone outside the agency was involved, investigators were hoping for clues in Lerner's emails.

The IRS was able to generate 24,000 Lerner emails from the 2009 to 2011 because Lerner had copied in other IRS employees. The agency said it pieced together the emails from the computers of 83 other IRS employees.

But an untold number are gone. Camp's office said the missing emails are mainly ones to and from people outside the IRS, "such as the White House, Treasury, Department of Justice, FEC, or Democrat offices."

The IRS said in a statement that it has gone to great lengths cooperating with congressional investigations, spending nearly $10 million to produce more than 750,000 documents.

Overall, the IRS said it is producing a total of 67,000 emails to and from Lerner, covering the period from 2009 to 2013.

"The IRS is committed to working with Congress," the IRS said in a statement. "The IRS has remained focused on being thorough and responding as quickly as possible to the wide-ranging requests from Congress while taking steps to protect underlying taxpayer information."

Lerner has emerged as a key figure in the Tea Party probe. In May 2013, she was the first IRS official to publicly acknowledge that agents had improperly scrutinized applications.

About two weeks later, Lerner was subpoenaed to testify at a congressional hearing. But after making a brief statement in which she said she had done nothing wrong, Lerner refused to answer questions, invoking her constitutional right against self-incrimination.

The IRS placed Lerner on administrative leave shortly after the congressional hearing. She retired last fall.

In May, the House voted to hold Lerner in contempt of Congress. Her case has been turned over to the U.S. attorney for the district of Columbia. (The Associated Press contributed to this report.)


Maybe IRS should bring in the IT folks that crafted the Obamacare web! Gonz
Gene363 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,821

This just cannot be, obama said his was going to be the most transparent administrations ever. On second thought, it is 'transparent' like no other, it's crystal clear they will lie, cheat and break the law to get their way. This is just another example. I sure even the NSA lost their copies too.
mikey1597 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 05-18-2007
Posts: 14,162
Surprise, Surprise, Surprise,


Ya know, it was funny when Gomer Pyle said that but it's really sad your president says it over and over again. Every time there is a new gubment FUBAR it's a total surprise to the white house. Seems like they learn more off the nightly news than they do from their own sources or advisors.
Burner02 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,884
mikey1597 wrote:
Surprise, Surprise, Surprise,


Ya know, it was funny when Gomer Pyle said that but it's really sad your president says it over and over again. Every time there is a new gubment FUBAR it's a total surprise to the white house. Seems like they learn more off the nightly news than they do from their own sources or advisors.



Have not heard FUBAR for some time.
cacman Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
So they're telling us the NSA is unable to recover data from a crashed hard-drive?
What a crock!
Gene363 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,821
mikey1597 wrote:
Surprise, Surprise, Surprise,


Ya know, it was funny when Gomer Pyle said that but it's really sad your president says it over and over again. Every time there is a new gubment FUBAR it's a total surprise to the white house. Seems like they learn more off the nightly news than they do from their own sources or advisors.


Reminds me of a Chris Rock routine. "I hate..."
Bitter Klinger Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 03-23-2013
Posts: 877
cacman wrote:
So they're telling us the NSA is unable to recover data from a crashed hard-drive?
What a crock!


Its not a crock, its a boldface lie. There's no way their mail is stored locally - none. And there's no way it isn't backed up on more than one server, with multiple drives, each striped and/or mirrored for redundancy.

But what do we know? Her PC crashed, right? d'oh!







snowwolf777 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-03-2000
Posts: 4,082
The average Obama voter sucks down the excuse like it's ice cream. That's all they care about. The rest of you are conspiracy theorists. We all know them computers has crashes and stuff, and when they do, your email is gone. Happens every day.

Bitter Klinger Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 03-23-2013
Posts: 877

Nothing to see here. Move along.
cacman Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
snowwolf777 wrote:
The average Obama voter sucks down the excuse like it's ice cream. That's all they care about. The rest of you are conspiracy theorists. We all know them computers has crashes and stuff, and when they do, your email is gone. Happens every day.


Guessing you've never sent a crashed hard-drive out for data recovery. Email file formats are some of the easiest to recover, especially considering the advanced Servers and RAID configs they are running as Bitter Klinger mentions.

The timing is highly suspicious, and convenient.
Bitter Klinger Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 03-23-2013
Posts: 877
Data recovery is expensive and time-consuming - usually if a server drive crashes, you toss the drive in the garbage (unless its under warranty). It only takes one reboot to restore/rebuild a failed drive in RAID 5 config, assuming they were even using local-server mail storage, which I highly doubt. Their mail is likely stored on secured & possibly encrypted SAN boxes, replicated to more of the same, and there's no way they were pawing through multiple PC's to find a damn thing. That was the excuse for the time needed to sanitize whatever they chose to hide.

The excuses become more infantile by the day. Maybe Susan Rice should do the Sunday AM talk show circuit again. You see, everything was working fine until Ms. Lerner was watching this youtube vid and...

TMCTLT Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
snowwolf777 wrote:
The average Obama voter sucks down the excuse like it's ice cream. That's all they care about. The rest of you are conspiracy theorists. We all know them computers has crashes and stuff, and when they do, your email is gone. Happens every day.




Happens every day to Average American people and Perhaps really small businesses....NOT the United States Government.....Wake the Hell UP!!!
Gene363 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,821

If you think there is only one hard drive, with no backups, that contains her emails, you might be an Obama voter.

Not only are there Federal requirements for maintaining and archiving emails, they are located in many places other than the sender and the recipient's personal hard disk.

If you want to believe in fantasy, unicorns, the transparency and reflectivity of the current administration, feel free, but if you think these emails cannot be located and recovered, you are an idiot. Well, unless Susan Rice says otherwise. Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall
gryphonms Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 04-14-2013
Posts: 1,983
The government has redundancies. The emails are part of their daily digital off site back up. Any one who thinks otherwise is being irrational.
victor809 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
gryphonms wrote:
The government has redundancies. The emails are part of their daily digital off site back up. Any one who thinks otherwise is being irrational.


Unless there is a time-limit on some data.

Some corporations I work for actively delete all emails past 3 months. If you have an email you want to keep, you have to pull it out of the server yourself and store it outside of the Outlook system. Ostensibly they do that to "keep data storage under control" but the secondary purpose is to ensure that email isn't relied on as a business record.

I don't know that the IRS policies are, and I'm going to guess none of you work for the IRS, so you don't know what the email policies are. But this is not unheard of.

Now, I will say, if there isn't a policy in place to delete emails past a certain age... then yes, the data is probably in about 5 different servers.
TMCTLT Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
Unless there is a time-limit on some data.

Some corporations I work for actively delete all emails past 3 months. If you have an email you want to keep, you have to pull it out of the server yourself and store it outside of the Outlook system. Ostensibly they do that to "keep data storage under control" but the secondary purpose is to ensure that email isn't relied on as a business record.

I don't know that the IRS policies are, and I'm going to guess none of you work for the IRS, so you don't know what the email policies are. But this is not unheard of.

Now, I will say, if there isn't a policy in place to delete emails past a certain age... then yes, the data is probably in about 5 different servers.




Again, This IS the same Government who just built HUGE storage facilities in order to NEVER have to rid itself of one small kernel of information gathered on " whoever " they want it gathered on. Even you
victor809 Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
TMCTLT wrote:
Again, This IS the same Government who just built HUGE storage facilities in order to NEVER have to rid itself of one small kernel of information gathered on " whoever " they want it gathered on. Even you


Of course. Because that's information they're gathering on us. A smart organization (not saying they're smart, but some shining star may have popped up briefly) would make sure that all correspondence WITHIN the organization is not stored, to make sure that no one can get a record of what they're doing to collect all the information on people OUTSIDE of the organization.....
gryphonms Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 04-14-2013
Posts: 1,983
Per IRS internal revenue manual chapter 10 section 3. If an email constitutes a federal record then a printed copy must be kept. Though I have no idea what constitutes a federal record I would assume at least some of the emails do.
snowwolf777 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 06-03-2000
Posts: 4,082
Apparently I've been absent from this forum long enough where some people miss the Sarcasm

My 11 year old knows enough about computers to back up her drive. I'm not sure how retarded you'd have to be to believe the government doesn't have redundancy up the ass.
stogiemonger Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 06-25-2009
Posts: 4,185
Do you know who has the data recovery experts that can sniff out any old deleted E-mail?


The IRS!
Bitter Klinger Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 03-23-2013
Posts: 877
Paul Ryan bowed up today - unfortunately, he just complained about the IRS not being "forthcoming", basically called the IRS guy a liar, then kept complainig about the "crashed" hard drive(s), as if that were a legit excuse to begin with.

Whomever is administering the mail servers at the IRS needs to be called onto the carpet, not the Dilbert at the top - this is a big smoke and mirror show. I won't be the least bit surprised to find out later that one or more of them were "contract" employees, who "travelled home to India last month" or tripped and hit their heads or some other random excuse for being unavailable.

So, who wants to guess on the number of days the John Koskinen "retirement" or "step down" announcement is made? I'll say 10 business days.
bs_kwaj Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 02-13-2006
Posts: 5,214
I'd like to see the IRS dismantled within 10 business days.
DrafterX Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
She's EEEeevil I tells ya.... EEEEvvil.... Mellow
Gene363 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,821
bs_kwaj wrote:
I'd like to see the IRS dismantled within 10 business days.


Yup

How long before HD posts, "[email protected]"
cacman Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
What happens if you tell the IRS you lost all your receipts due to a crashed hard-drive?
Could this be a new legitimate excuse for the common tax-payer?
TMCTLT Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
cacman wrote:
What happens if you tell the IRS you lost all your receipts due to a crashed hard-drive?
Could this be a new legitimate excuse for the common tax-payer?



We WISH, **** runs down hill....the taxpayer is already @ the bottom of those ****ting On US. Nope we'll still get locked up Carl
cacman Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
TMCTLT wrote:
We WISH, **** runs down hill....the taxpayer is already @ the bottom of those ****ting On US. Nope we'll still get locked up Carl

So it's do as they say, not as they do? Gotcha!
TMCTLT Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
cacman wrote:
So it's do as they say, not as they do? Gotcha!



Yessir, the more things change....the MORE they stay the SAME or Get Worse d'oh!
ZRX1200 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,617
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2664130/Congressman-introduces-bill-taxpayers-use-lame-excuses-IRS-filing-returns.html
cacman Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
ZRX1200 wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2664130/Congressman-introduces-bill-taxpayers-use-lame-excuses-IRS-filing-returns.html

LMFAO!!! The Dog Ate My Tax Receipts Act.
I like this guy!

Unless the IRS produces the documents that were subpenaed, 'taxpayers shall be given the benefit of the doubt when not producing critical documentation' if their excuse is one of the following:

1. The dog ate my tax receipts
2. Convenient, unexplained, miscellaneous computer malfunction
3. Traded documents for five terrorists
4. Burned for warmth while lost in the Yukon
5. Left on table in Hillary’s Book Room
6. Received water damage in the trunk of Ted Kennedy’s car
7. Forgot in gun case sold to Mexican drug lords
8. Forced to recycle by municipal Green Czar
9. Was short on toilet paper while camping
10. At this point, what difference does it make?
victor809 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
They're kinda going off the deep end on this one

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/25/darrell-issa-lois-lerner-emails_n_5530125.html
DrafterX Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
I'm guessing he's leaving a little room for negotiation.... Mellow
Gene363 Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,821

I suspect he has an idea about what is in the old correspondence. Even before Internet email most government entities had electronic mail through mainframe systems, All-In-One for example. If they are paper letters, there are all sorts of archiving rules that make it tough to throw out anything. Since discarding anything would requires a documented decision, it is seldom done by the government.
Bitter Klinger Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 03-23-2013
Posts: 877
Comveniently, in other news, a bunch of people crammed a bunch of sick illegal ailien kids onto busses and began flooding border towns with them.

And the media all said " Lois who?"

ZRX1200 Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,617
Good old Cloward and Piven tactics again.....overwhelm the news cycle when confronted.
Bitter Klinger Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 03-23-2013
Posts: 877
They've "overwhelmed" so much crap with so much more crap, I'm afraid its become terminal. The media now has the permanent attention span of a Golden Retreiver...

Time for a reboot yet?
Users browsing this topic
Guest