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Last post 9 years ago by Brewha. 72 replies replies.
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Maybe Obamacare Didn't Save The U.S. Economy After All
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Brewha Offline
#51 Posted: Thu, Jun 26 2014, 1:35 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
victor809 wrote:
I'll give you "deny claims"... because that's part of their game. I'll even give you slow payments (but that's really more a function of deny claims until required to pay)... and every time I've dealt with it I just waited until the insurance company paid up, then paid my percentage. If I had to pay up early and the insurance company then came through, I got my money back from one of the parties.

But legally they cannot just "drop" a person. Hell, they're obligated to continue insuring you a few months past when you leave them.

Are you contending that because it is illegal it does not happen?
victor809 Offline
#52 Posted: Thu, Jun 26 2014, 1:51 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Brewha wrote:
Are you contending that because it is illegal it does not happen?


No. But just like your argument earlier, if it's already illegal it isn't like obamacare is going to stop it.
MACS Offline
#53 Posted: Thu, Jun 26 2014, 2:02 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,809
Brewha wrote:
Alright, if you don’t buy my version of why we are doing it, what is your explanation?

Obama is making insurance companies take people we pre-existing condition, why?


Maybe the reason we're doing it is altruistic, so people who have become catastrophically ill don't have 100k in medical bills, I really don't know why. But mandating that insurance companies take on bad debt means someone else is paying that debt. The insurance companies, the tax payers, the members paying premiums or a combination... the companies are not just going to eat the loss.
DrafterX Offline
#54 Posted: Thu, Jun 26 2014, 2:17 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
that's why they are raising the minimum wage... they're forcing the small business dudes to pay for it.. Mellow
Gene363 Offline
#55 Posted: Thu, Jun 26 2014, 2:35 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,834
DrafterX wrote:
that's why they are raising the minimum wage... they're forcing the small business dudes to pay for it.. Mellow


But that's negated by the endless flow of low wage workers across the border. The rich/corporations are not going to allow their pet politicians make them pay for anything so it will fall on the backs of the middle class. The more things change, the more they don't change.
DrafterX Offline
#56 Posted: Thu, Jun 26 2014, 2:38 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
How long before Obamacare comes right out of your paycheck like FICA & Taxes..?? Think
tailgater Offline
#57 Posted: Thu, Jun 26 2014, 2:45 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:
Alright, if you don’t buy my version of why we are doing it, what is your explanation?

Obama is making insurance companies take people we pre-existing condition, why?


pre-existing conditions is a two-way street.

Insurers don't want to accept PEC because too many had zero insurance, or very poor (cheap) insurance. then they get a disease and want to sign up with BCBS because they pay for all the treatments.

That isn't fair.

But if Joe schmo works for company A with insurance company I, he shouldn't be forced to stay with this company simply because switching jobs to company B makes him take insurer II that won't cover his chronic herpes because it's pre-existing.

the answer wasn't our previous system of waste, abuse, and perpetual rising costs.
But all we've got now is federally funded waste, abuse and perpetually rising costs.

Feel better?
tailgater Offline
#58 Posted: Thu, Jun 26 2014, 2:46 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
DrafterX wrote:
How long before Obamacare comes right out of your paycheck like FICA & Taxes..?? Think


Wait.
You get a paycheck?
Gene363 Offline
#59 Posted: Thu, Jun 26 2014, 2:48 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,834
DrafterX wrote:
How long before Obamacare comes right out of your paycheck like FICA & Taxes..?? Think


Yikes! Talk about scary! OhMyGod OhMyGod OhMyGod

Single payer is the ultimate aim for a lot of obamacare believers.
Brewha Offline
#60 Posted: Thu, Jun 26 2014, 8:13 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
tailgater wrote:
pre-existing conditions is a two-way street.

Insurers don't want to accept PEC because too many had zero insurance, or very poor (cheap) insurance. then they get a disease and want to sign up with BCBS because they pay for all the treatments.

That isn't fair.

But if Joe schmo works for company A with insurance company I, he shouldn't be forced to stay with this company simply because switching jobs to company B makes him take insurer II that won't cover his chronic herpes because it's pre-existing.

the answer wasn't our previous system of waste, abuse, and perpetual rising costs.
But all we've got now is federally funded waste, abuse and perpetually rising costs.

Feel better?




Now that' kinda weak.
tailgater Offline
#61 Posted: Fri, Jun 27 2014, 10:00 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:
Now that' kinda weak.


I can reply in-same, since you chose not to follow up.
I offer a small sliver of discussion on a very complex topic. My points are valid, in my opinion, and reflect common real life circumstance. How or why you feel this is weak I guess we'll never know.
But you sound like a simple nay-sayer, nothing more.
Brewha Offline
#62 Posted: Fri, Jun 27 2014, 2:30 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
tailgater wrote:
I can reply in-same, since you chose not to follow up.
I offer a small sliver of discussion on a very complex topic. My points are valid, in my opinion, and reflect common real life circumstance. How or why you feel this is weak I guess we'll never know.
But you sound like a simple nay-sayer, nothing more.


If I understand you point, it boils down to this; “it was bad before and now the government is involved and it won’t be any better”.

I feel this is a weak position. Perhaps practical in its cynicism, maybe even in step with common wisdom, but I don’t agree and feel it has no merit.

What do you think the right answer to the problem is, if not government reform of the system?
MACS Offline
#63 Posted: Fri, Jun 27 2014, 3:23 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,809
Brewha wrote:
If I understand you point, it boils down to this; “it was bad before and now the government is involved and it won’t be any better”.

I feel this is a weak position. Perhaps practical in its cynicism, maybe even in step with common wisdom, but I don’t agree and feel it has no merit.

What do you think the right answer to the problem is, if not government reform of the system?


The government can't reform themselves, let alone anyone else.

Welfare? The people who NEED it can't get it, and the people who get it abuse it.

Social Security? Ponzi scheme that has about run its course.

Taxation? Don't even get me started... we're taxed on EVERYTHING and the gov't is so broke they can't pay attention.

What the hell makes you think ANYTHING they get involved with will get better???!!!??? If money is involved, it WILL get effed up even worse.
tailgater Offline
#64 Posted: Fri, Jun 27 2014, 4:22 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:
If I understand you point, it boils down to this; “it was bad before and now the government is involved and it won’t be any better”.

I feel this is a weak position. Perhaps practical in its cynicism, maybe even in step with common wisdom, but I don’t agree and feel it has no merit.

What do you think the right answer to the problem is, if not government reform of the system?


It's not cynicism when there is ample evidence to back up a cautious approach.

Our government does some things very well.
They built the best military in the world.
And, uh, ummm.

OK, they do very few things efficiently.
So we should leave them to tend for the things that private industry can not.

Health insurance needed some kind of reform. You and I agree.
A single payer take over not only isn't the solution, it's been proven time and again that this cure is worst than the disease.
Pick a country that employs a single payer system and tell me HOW they're better.

Canadians flock to our hospitals like flies to sh*t.
Even those enlightened Europeans hate their system. Don't believe me? Ask a few. And, oh yeah. You'll likely find some over here for that very reason.

And maybe you'll get bothered because I call it a single payer system. Because right now I agree it's not. but wait a minute. It will be.
Private industry CAN NOT compete with an industry in which the law makers are the competition.
Can you at least see this? Am I being unreasonable when I say it? Is it weak?


stogiefan Offline
#65 Posted: Fri, Jun 27 2014, 4:45 PM EST
Joined: 10-23-2012
Posts: 80
The Obamacare law was always meant to usher in single payer. Harry Reid even admits Obamacare is the 1st step to single payer. When this law fails liberals will blame the insurance companies and the private sector saying that we tried but we need a full government takeover. It's all Cloward and Piven, order out of chaos strategy.
Brewha Offline
#66 Posted: Sat, Jun 28 2014, 11:08 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
tailgater wrote:
It's not cynicism when there is ample evidence to back up a cautious approach.

Our government does some things very well.
They built the best military in the world.
And, uh, ummm.

OK, they do very few things efficiently.
So we should leave them to tend for the things that private industry can not.

Health insurance needed some kind of reform. You and I agree.
A single payer take over not only isn't the solution, it's been proven time and again that this cure is worst than the disease.
Pick a country that employs a single payer system and tell me HOW they're better.

Canadians flock to our hospitals like flies to sh*t.
Even those enlightened Europeans hate their system. Don't believe me? Ask a few. And, oh yeah. You'll likely find some over here for that very reason.

And maybe you'll get bothered because I call it a single payer system. Because right now I agree it's not. but wait a minute. It will be.
Private industry CAN NOT compete with an industry in which the law makers are the competition.
Can you at least see this? Am I being unreasonable when I say it? Is it weak?



Tail, I took your post as weak for the reason I see post #63 as weak, although MACS has you beat hands down; it's not discussion, it's rants and twaddle. Not making a case for a better way or alternate path, just carping.

Now, I a agree that some cynicism is proper (even required) when we talk about our government doing anything. And someone is bound to screw things up. But as Americans we need to try.

Private industry should never compete with the law. But it absolutely needs regulation - just like they regulate how fast you and I can drive home from work. And I for one am glad to see us making some headway, rather than drifting as the GOP would keep us doing.
Brewha Offline
#67 Posted: Sat, Jun 28 2014, 11:10 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
stogiefan wrote:
The Obamacare law was always meant to usher in single payer. Harry Reid even admits Obamacare is the 1st step to single payer. When this law fails liberals will blame the insurance companies and the private sector saying that we tried but we need a full government takeover. It's all Cloward and Piven, order out of chaos strategy.

Sweet!!!
We were all worried that Obamacare would lead to communism!
Gene363 Offline
#68 Posted: Sat, Jun 28 2014, 11:55 AM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,834
Brewha wrote:
Sweet!!!
We were all worried that Obamacare would lead to communism!


That is further down the timeline to hell.
Brewha Offline
#69 Posted: Thu, Jul 3 2014, 3:56 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
Gene363 wrote:

That is further down the timeline to hell.

Gene, there is no Hell. There is only New Jersey.
gryphonms Offline
#70 Posted: Thu, Jul 3 2014, 4:18 PM EST
Joined: 04-14-2013
Posts: 1,983
And the difference is?
Gene363 Offline
#71 Posted: Sat, Jul 5 2014, 1:23 AM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,834
Brewha you obviously haven't spent time in swamps along the Texas border in the summer.
Brewha Offline
#72 Posted: Sun, Jul 6 2014, 1:26 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
Gene363 wrote:
Brewha you obviously haven't spent time in swamps along the Texas border in the summer.

Come on, that's where people from Newark go on vacation!
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