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Last post 9 years ago by teedubbya. 19 replies replies.
Captain in Charge of Ferguson Security "Blows it"
Burner02 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,884
al.com - "An open letter penned by Gulf Shores, AL, Police Chief Ed Delmore, criticizing Missouri Highway Patrol Capt. Ron Johnson's actions as head of security in Ferguson, Mo., has struck a chord in the law enforcement community.

The letter published Sunday on LawOfficer.com had been shared over 40,000 times on Facebook as of Monday night.

The St. Louis suburb of Ferguson, Mo., has been increasingly in the spotlight following the shooting death of 18-year-old Michael Brown by Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson on Aug. 9. The federal government has launched a full investigation with more than 40 FBI agents and President Barack Obama said he is sending Attorney Gen. Eric Holder to the city on Wednesday.

Delmore, a 32-year law enforcement veteran who spent most of his career leading St. Louis area departments until becoming the Alabama beach city's top cop in 2010, is usually reserved but in his open letter he holds nothing back, ripping Johnson's handling of the tense and controversial situation.

While the Delmore's entire letter, titled "An Open Letter to Captain Ronald S. Johnson" can be found at www.LawOfficer.com, here's the first half of it:

I have to call you out.

I don't care what the media says. I expect them to get it wrong and they often do. But I expect you as a veteran law enforcement commander—talking about law enforcement—to get it right.

Unfortunately, you blew it. After days of rioting and looting, last Thursday you were given command of all law enforcement operations in Ferguson by Governor Jay Nixon. St. Louis County PD was out, you were in. You played to the cameras, walked with the protestors and promised a kinder, gentler response. You were a media darling. And Thursday night things were better, much better.

But Friday, under significant pressure to do so, the Ferguson Police released the name of the officer involved in the shooting of Michael Brown. At the same time the Ferguson Police Chief released a video showing Brown committing a strong-arm robbery just 10 minutes before he was confronted by Officer Darren Wilson.

Many don't like the timing of the release of the video. I don't like that timing either. It should have been released sooner. It should have been released the moment FPD realized that Brown was the suspect.

Captain Johnson, your words during the day on Friday helped to fuel the anger that was still churning just below the surface. St. Louis County Police were told to remain uninvolved and that night the rioting and looting began again. For much too long it went on mostly unchecked. Retired St. Louis County Police Chief Tim Fitch tweeted that your "hug-a-looter" policy had failed.

Boy did it.

And your words contributed to what happened Friday night and on into the wee hours of Saturday. According to the St. Louis Post Dispatch, you said the following regarding the release of the video:"There was no need to release it," Johnson said, calling the reported theft and the killing entirely different events.

Well Captain, this veteran police officer feels the need to respond. What you said is, in common police vernacular—bullsxxt. The fact that Brown knew he had just committed a robbery before he was stopped by Officer Wilson speaks to Brown's mindset. And Captain, the mindset of a person being stopped by a police officer means everything, and you know it.

Let's consider a few examples: ..."

Read the rest of the letter at www.Lawofficer.com.
Abrignac Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
Great post, but I would have printed the entire article


I have to call you out.

I don’t care what the media says. I expect them to get it wrong and they often do. But I expect you as a veteran law enforcement commander—talking about law enforcement—to get it right.

Unfortunately, you blew it. After days of rioting and looting, last Thursday you were given command of all law enforcement operations in Ferguson by Governor Jay Nixon. St. Louis County PD was out, you were in. You played to the cameras, walked with the protestors and promised a kinder, gentler response. You were a media darling. And Thursday night things were better, much better.

But Friday, under significant pressure to do so, the Ferguson Police released the name of the officer involved in the shooting of Michael Brown. At the same time the Ferguson Police Chief released a video showing Brown committing a strong-arm robbery just 10 minutes before he was confronted by Officer Darren Wilson.

Many don’t like the timing of the release of the video. I don’t like that timing either. It should have been released sooner. It should have been released the moment FPD realized that Brown was the suspect.

Captain Johnson, your words during the day on Friday helped to fuel the anger that was still churning just below the surface. St. Louis County Police were told to remain uninvolved and that night the rioting and looting began again. For much too long it went on mostly unchecked. Retired St. Louis County Police Chief Tim Fitch tweeted that your “hug-a-looter” policy had failed.

Boy did it.

And your words contributed to what happened Friday night and on into the wee hours of Saturday. According to the St. Louis Post Dispatch, you said the following regarding the release of the video: “There was no need to release it,” Johnson said calling the reported theft and the killing entirely different events.

Well Captain, this veteran police officer feels the need to respond. What you said is, in common police vernacular—bull****. The fact that Brown knew he had just committed a robbery before he was stopped by Officer Wilson speaks to Brown’s mindset. And Captain, the mindset of a person being stopped by a police officer means everything, and you know it.

Let’s consider a few examples:
On February 15, 1978 Pensacola Police Officer David Lee conducted a vehicle check. He didn’t know what the sole occupant of the vehicle had recently done, but the occupant did. Who was he? Serial killer Ted Bundy. Bundy attempted to disarm Lee. Lee was able to retain his firearm and eventually took Bundy into custody.

On April 19, 1995 Oklahoma State Trooper Charlie Hangar stopped a vehicle for minor traffic violations. He didn’t know that 90 minutes earlier the traffic violator, Timothy McVeigh, killed 168 people with a truck bomb at the Murrah Federal Building. But McVeigh sure knew it, didn’t he? Fortunately, given his training and experience Hangar was able to take McVeigh into custody for carrying a concealed firearm. It was days later before it was determined that McVeigh was responsible for the bombing.

On May 31, 2003 then-rookie North Carolina police officer, Jeff Postell, arrested a man digging in a trash bin on a grocery store parking lot—an infraction that would rise to about the level of jaywalking. Postell didn’t know that he had just captured Eric Rudolph, the man whom years earlier had killed and injured numerous people with bombs and was on the FBI’s Ten Most Wanted list.

So now, let’s consider Ferguson Officer Darren Wilson’s stop of Michael Brown. Apparently Wilson didn’t know that Brown had just committed a strong-arm robbery. But Brown did! And that Captain, is huge.

Allegedly, Brown pushed Wilson and attempted to take Wilson’s gun. We’re also being told that Officer Wilson has facial injuries suffered during the attempt by Brown to disarm him. Let’s assume for a moment those alleged acts by Brown actually occurred. Would Brown have responded violently to an officer confronting him about jaywalking? Maybe, but probably not.

Is it more likely that he would attack an officer believing that he was about to be taken into custody for a felony strong-arm robbery? Absolutely.

Officer Wilson survived the encounter with Brown as did Lee, Hangar, and Postell. Michael Brown didn’t survive and it’s too soon to say if Officer Wilson’s use of deadly force was justified and legal. You and I both know that not all officers survive such confrontations. Officers die in incidents like this Captain Johnson, including a couple that I remember from your own organization:

On April 15, 1985 Missouri Trooper Jimmie Linegar was shot and killed by a white supremacist he and his partner stopped at a checkpoint; neither Trooper Linegar nor his partner were aware that the man they had stopped had just been indicted by a federal grand jury for involvement in a neo-Nazi group accused of murder. The suspect immediately exited the vehicle and opened fire on him with an automatic weapon.

Just a month before, Missouri Trooper James M. Froemsdorf was shot and killed—with his own gun—after making a traffic stop. When the Trooper made that stop he didn’t know that the driver was wanted on four warrants out of Texas—But again the suspect knew it.

So Captain Johnson, I guess the mindset and recently committed crimes of the suspects that murdered those Missouri Troopers didn’t mean anything. The stops by the Troopers, as you have said, are entirely different events right?

Bull****.



http://www.lawofficer.com/article/lifeline-training/open-letter-captain-ronald-s-j
Gene363 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838

Well how about that? Mad
opelmanta1900 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
interesting... glad someone said it... I've heard too many people say that his having just committed felony theft had nothing to do with him getting shot...
Gene363 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838

Accurate and early information is the best policy; for local law enforcement and at the Federal level. Captain Ronald S. Johnson isn't the only one that screwed up.
Gene363 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838
And now for some constructive comments:

Quote:
erguson: A Law Enforcement Perspective
By Robert Farago on August 19, 2014

Aftermath of Michael Brown shooting, Ferguson, St. Louis, America - 12 Aug 2014
By Patrick Hayes

I’m a Georgia Police officer with more than a few years of service under my belt. Unlike most of my colleagues, I’ve had riot training. But not much and not recently. Equally, my department doesn’t keep or maintain riot gear: shields, tear gas, etc. The responsibility for quelling civil disturbances – like the one in Ferguson, Missouri – lies entirely with the Georgia State Patrol. We call them, they handle it. Done. That’s not how it went down in Ferguson, before Governor Nixon called in the Highway Patrol. And from what I’ve seen of the situation since then, it looks like the Show Me State Police are making some major miscalculations . . .

The recent events in Ferguson have called into question police response to riots, generally. As they should. With live TV coverage of events, Americans have their first comprehensive, minute-by-minute look at police strategy and tactics for crowd control. What they’re seeing is disorganized deployment with knee-jerk reactions from the police agencies involved.

For one thing, I’m not a fan of police using large armored vehicles for crowd control. The vehicles send all the wrong messages, creating an “us vs. them” mentality. Instead of concentrating on the faces of human beings (police) the crowd sees a mechanized army, ready, willing and able to roll right over them. Literally.

But since the Ferguson police had armored vehicles, they should have used them strategically. They should have parked the rigs to block access to at-risk areas. The vehicles could help contain the crowd in a relatively safe place, protecting businesses and preventing the crowd from outflanking the officers. They shouldn’t be using them to patrol the streets.

When it came time to face the crowd, the police didn’t form a proper line. Some had riot shields, some didn’t. This left gaps. It’s a potentially dangerous situation for the police and a psychological signal to the crowd that the police are not well-organized and therefore unprepared to maintain discipline and create order out of chaos.

The police seemed listless, moving without obvious intentions or coordination, indicating a lack of proper command and control. They should have had a clear strategy: isolate the smaller number of people who were rioting, directing (respectfully but forcefully guiding) the peaceful protestors elsewhere. Away from the scene.

A sniper on an MRAP? Really? It looks cool, but it’s not very smart. It confronts the crowd with the possibility of lethal force, raising the stakes for all concerned, instead of deescalating the situation.

As for police wearing protective gear and carrying rifles, sure. Why not? Who wouldn’t in that situation? That is not militarization, that’s just common sense. (By the way, most of that gear is made for police agencies by private companies like 511 Tactical.) Those who think police shouldn’t have rifles have never done the job.

Most of the rifles I saw at Ferguson were standard AR-15 platform weapons. The same weapons gun owners have been saying are NOT military weapons for years. The same ones the anti gun folks have been going after for years. If we say the police don’t need them, then why would anyone else? It’s ammo we don’t want to give to the anti’s.

I question the OIS (Officer Involved Shooting) itself. Contrary to common opinion, cops are far harder on other cops than the general public. In principle, any time the police shoot an unarmed person it is a per se bad shoot until it is justified. Common justifications are a fight over a weapon or the officers life being placed in grave danger. Did this shooting meet that justification? Did the officers actions cause the situation?

These are the questions that will have to be answered. Here’s what we know and what we need to know:

- The suspect attacked the officer in or near the car and there was a struggle for the officers’ gun. A shot was fired that didn’t hit anyone.
- The suspect disengaged at this point and the officer exited his vehicle.
- The officer had his gun drawn and the suspect charged him.
- The officer fired several shots, killing the suspect.

My questions are these:

- Why did the officer have his gun out in the car?
- Why did the officer continue to hold his gun after the suspect disengaged?
- If the officer had re-holstered, could he have used less lethal force?
- Did the officer fear for his life from the much larger suspect?
- Did the officer’s actions lead to a situation where lethal force was the only option?
- Did the suspect take action that justified the officer’s use of force?

When a trained police officer takes an action and that action escalates a situation to a point where lethal force is used, the officer is judged based on what an average police officer would do given the same situation. In a deadly force use, an officer is judged by the same standard as everyone else. Did he fear for his life?

Time will tell. Sharpton, Jackson and Holder aside, the facts will come out. And that’s when we’ll know what kind of shoot triggered the civil unrest. Meanwhile, the Missouri state police would do well to talk to the National Guard about their crowd control strategies and techniques, before something even worse happens.


Source: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/08/robert-farago/ois-police-response-ferguson-law-enforcement-perspective/
victor809 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Interesting article Gene.

Here's something to simply think about.

Gas Masks.

A lot of the images of the Ferguson police I've seen they're wearing gas-masks. Now, ostensibly that's so they're protected if/when they deploy smoke/pepper, but there's another effect of dehumanizing which occurs. The police officers are hiding their face, making them a single uniform entity. This seems more likely to encourage violence in the crowd, since they are less likely to see the police officers as human beings. It's the same idea used in video games and simulations, dehumanize the enemy so that you're more likely to shoot it. Take away a face, make the enemy a faceless entity and you don't have the second thoughts about what you're doing.

I'm not a psychologist... it just seems to me to be a bad idea to do this if your intent is to make the crowd less violent rather than more.
Abrignac Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
victor809 wrote:
Interesting article Gene.

Here's something to simply think about.

Gas Masks.

A lot of the images of the Ferguson police I've seen they're wearing gas-masks. Now, ostensibly that's so they're protected if/when they deploy smoke/pepper, but there's another effect of dehumanizing which occurs. The police officers are hiding their face, making them a single uniform entity. This seems more likely to encourage violence in the crowd, since they are less likely to see the police officers as human beings. It's the same idea used in video games and simulations, dehumanize the enemy so that you're more likely to shoot it. Take away a face, make the enemy a faceless entity and you don't have the second thoughts about what you're doing.

I'm not a psychologist... it just seems to me to be a bad idea to do this if your intent is to make the crowd less violent rather than more.


That's only if it's safe to assume that the protestors see the officers as being human beings to begin with. Based on the initial reactions from day one, it's pretty safe to assume that there is a disconnect between the officers and the protestors.
Gene363 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838
victor809 wrote:
Interesting article Gene.

Here's something to simply think about.

Gas Masks.

A lot of the images of the Ferguson police I've seen they're wearing gas-masks. Now, ostensibly that's so they're protected if/when they deploy smoke/pepper, but there's another effect of dehumanizing which occurs. The police officers are hiding their face, making them a single uniform entity. This seems more likely to encourage violence in the crowd, since they are less likely to see the police officers as human beings. It's the same idea used in video games and simulations, dehumanize the enemy so that you're more likely to shoot it. Take away a face, make the enemy a faceless entity and you don't have the second thoughts about what you're doing.

I'm not a psychologist... it just seems to me to be a bad idea to do this if your intent is to make the crowd less violent rather than more.


Same thing with ski masks, for both sides.

Not feeling too happy now, just watched a video of a immigrant's store that was looted of food and liquor and tobacco, then destroyed. Masked 'protestors' had no remorse what ever.

On the 'bright side' I haven't seen any stories about looted work boots.
Mad Sarcasm
victor809 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Abrignac wrote:
That's only if it's safe to assume that the protestors see the officers as being human beings to begin with. Based on the initial reactions from day one, it's pretty safe to assume that there is a disconnect between the officers and the protestors.


That's not really optional. It's human nature to recognize a human face. They may have an "us vs them" mentality (I'm not arguing that at all), but I'm just pointing out that anything which obscures the officers face is probably more likely to make the protests violent vs de-escalate.

Don't get me wrong... the whole situation is f-ed.

Maybe if the officers painted yellow smiley faces on their gas masks....
victor809 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Gene363 wrote:
Same thing with ski masks, for both sides.

Not feeling too happy now, just watched a video of a immigrant's store that was looted of food and liquor and tobacco, then destroyed. Masked 'protestors' had no remorse what ever.

On the 'bright side' I haven't seen any stories about looted work boots.
Mad Sarcasm


Yeah. the people wearing masks and looting are opportunists with no interest in the actual issue at hand.
DrafterX Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
I don't think very many of them are from Ferguson anymore... 'Opportunists' from both coasts are there.... or so i heard... Mellow
Abrignac Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
This is such a difficult situation for me to respond to. There is so much BS being spread. I've typed out 2 or 3 long point by point responses to what is being reported only to delete them.

No matter, the truth is starting to trickle out. As soon as rational folks put two and two together this will become a non-issue as far as the officer is concerned. Politics on the other hand will always spawn a life of it's own.
DrafterX Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
the truth won't really matter to many anyway.... Mellow
Abrignac Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
DrafterX wrote:
the truth won't really matter to many anyway.... Mellow



This is true. Most of the mouth pieces had an agenda from the beginning.

On 8/8/2014 Jesse Jackson had this to say.

"And where was he shot? And why was he lying in the street for several hours? That was kind of a state execution.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/08/jesse-jackson-ferguson-reaction-110058.html#ixzz3AsE0oHcv




delta1 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,810
It seems that Law Enforcement philosophies and practices in responding to protests by large numbers of civilians evolved a few years ago, in response to the Occupy movement. The feeling then was that existing militaristic practices were ineffective and led to violent confrontations. Police were also reminded the people had first amendment rights to speak out, to assemble and demand redress. Police were provided training about the new effective methods to contain civil protests by meeting with the leaders of the group, to facilitate an area where the protests can occur, and to standby and maintain liaison with the protestors. I guess the Ferguson and Missouri PD didn't get the memo.

Wonder if that is still possible in Ferguson?
teedubbya Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
yea there are definitely two schools of thought on this. do what we say or we will shoot seems to be the first one.
delta1 Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,810
Quieter night last night. No shooting, looting, rock/bottle throwing. Peaceful protesting with cops standing by and mingling with the crowd rather than standing in formation with guns and batons ready. Change starting?
teedubbya Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
delta1 wrote:
Quieter night last night. No shooting, looting, rock/bottle throwing. Peaceful protesting with cops standing by and mingling with the crowd rather than standing in formation with guns and batons ready. Change starting?



It started when the state troopers came in but since it wasn't immediate the folks that disagreed with that move (the county is right this must be met with force) declared it a failure.

who knows what is next. what a mess.
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