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The myth of "People are paid what they are worth"
Brewha Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
It's often assumed that people are paid what they're worth. According to this logic, minimum wage workers aren't worth more than the $7.25 an hour they now receive. If they were worth more, they'd earn more. Any attempt to force employers to pay them more will only kill jobs.

According to this same logic, CEOs of big companies are worth their giant compensation packages, now averaging 300 times pay of the typical American worker. They must be worth it or they wouldn't be paid this much. Any attempt to limit their pay is fruitless because their pay will only take some other form.

"Paid-what-you're-worth" is a dangerous myth.

Fifty years ago, when General Motors was the largest employer in America, the typical GM worker got paid $35 an hour in today's dollars. Today, America's largest employer is Walmart, and the typical Walmart worker earns $8.80 an hour.

Does this mean the typical GM employee a half-century ago was worth four times what today's typical Walmart employee is worth? Not at all. That GM worker wasn't much better educated or productive. He often hadn't graduated from high school. And today's Walmart worker is surrounded by digital gadgets -- mobile inventory controls, instant checkout devices, retail search engines -- making him or her highly productive.

The real difference is the GM worker a half-century ago had a strong union behind him that summoned the collective bargaining power of all autoworkers to get a substantial share of company revenues for its members. And because more than a third of workers across America belonged to a labor union, the bargains those unions struck with employers raised the wages and benefits of non-unionized workers as well. Non-union firms knew they'd be unionized if they didn't come close to matching the union contracts.

Today's Walmart workers don't have a union to negotiate a better deal. They're on their own. And because fewer than 7 percent of today's private-sector workers are unionized, non-union employers across America don't have to match union contracts. This puts unionized firms at a competitive disadvantage. The result has been a race to the bottom.

By the same token, today's CEOs don't rake in 300 times the pay of average workers because they're "worth" it. They get these humongous pay packages because they appoint the compensation committees on their boards that decide executive pay. Or their boards don't want to be seen by investors as having hired a "second-string" CEO who's paid less than the CEOs of their major competitors. Either way, the result has been a race to the top.

If you still believe people are paid what they're worth, take a look at Wall Street bonuses. Last year's average bonus was up 15 percent over the year before, to more than $164,000. It was the largest average Wall Street bonus since the 2008 financial crisis and the third highest on record, according to New York's state comptroller. Remember, we're talking bonuses, above and beyond salaries.

All told, the Street paid out a whopping $26.7 billion in bonuses last year.

Are Wall Street bankers really worth it? Not if you figure in the hidden subsidy flowing to the big Wall Street banks that ever since the bailout of 2008 have been considered too big to fail.

People who park their savings in these banks accept a lower interest rate on deposits or loans than they require from America's smaller banks. That's because smaller banks are riskier places to park money. Unlike the big banks, the smaller ones won't be bailed out if they get into trouble.

This hidden subsidy gives Wall Street banks a competitive advantage over the smaller banks, which means Wall Street makes more money. And as their profits grow, the big banks keep getting bigger.

How large is this hidden subsidy? Two researchers, Kenichi Ueda of the International Monetary Fund and Beatrice Weder di Mauro of the University of Mainz, have calculated it's about eight tenths of a percentage point.

This may not sound like much but multiply it by the total amount of money parked in the ten biggest Wall Street banks and you get a huge amount -- roughly $83 billion a year.

Recall that the Street paid out $26.7 billion in bonuses last year. You don't have to be a rocket scientist or even a Wall Street banker to see that the hidden subsidy the Wall Street banks enjoy because they're too big to fail is about three times what Wall Street paid out in bonuses.

Without the subsidy, no bonus pool.

By the way, the lion's share of that subsidy ($64 billion a year) goes to the top five banks -- JPMorgan, Bank of America, Citigroup, Wells Fargo. and Goldman Sachs. This amount just about equals these banks' typical annual profits. In other words, take away the subsidy and not only does the bonus pool disappear, but so do all the profits.

The reason Wall Street bankers got fat paychecks plus a total of $26.7 billion in bonuses last year wasn't because they worked so much harder or were so much more clever or insightful than most other Americans. They cleaned up because they happen to work in institutions -- big Wall Street banks -- that hold a privileged place in the American political economy.

And why, exactly, do these institutions continue to have such privileges? Why hasn't Congress used the antitrust laws to cut them down to size so they're not too big to fail, or at least taxed away their hidden subsidy (which, after all, results from their taxpayer-financed bailout)?

Perhaps it's because Wall Street also accounts for a large proportion of campaign donations to major candidates for Congress and the presidency of both parties.

America's low-wage workers don't have privileged positions. They work very hard -- many holding down two or more jobs. But they can't afford to make major campaign contributions and they have no political clout.

According to the Institute for Policy Studies, the $26.7 billion of bonuses Wall Street banks paid out last year would be enough to more than double the pay of every one of America's 1,085,000 full-time minimum wage workers.

The remainder of the $83 billion of hidden subsidy going to those same banks would almost be enough to double what the government now provides low-wage workers in the form of wage subsidies under the Earned Income Tax Credit.

But I don't expect Congress to make these sorts of adjustments any time soon.

The "paid-what-you're-worth" argument is fundamentally misleading because it ignores power, overlooks institutions, and disregards politics. As such, it lures the unsuspecting into thinking nothing whatever should be done to change what people are paid, because nothing can be done.

Don't buy it.
DrafterX Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
I think they're still not thinkimg about the small business dude with a dozen employees... Main St across America will be vacant... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
The idea that the highest paid groups are paid more than they are worth does not support the argument that the lowest paid aren't paid what they are worth.

In fact, the argument that a Walmart employee is more productive now than a GM factory worker was 50 years ago is horribly flawed. The GM factory worker, while poorly educated, was still performing tasks for which we had minimal automation. The modern Walmart worker is NOT "made more productive" by the technology available today. His job is mostly performed by technology and his job is simply to move a barcode over a scanner and push a couple buttons, or simply move a couple pallets around to restock. Do you see the difference? Technology hasn't made him more productive, it has made HIS TASK more productive, but made him a much smaller part of the whole.

I don't argue that business and banks have a lot of political power, but one side having a lot of political power doesn't prove the argument either.
The employer WANTS to pay as little as possible for as much work. Duh.
But what you're forgetting is that the employee WANTS to be paid as much as possible for as little work as well.

Unionizing doesn't give you "fair" wages any more than a telecom monopoly will give you "fair" phone fees. Unionizing is just a monopoly on a good (or service)... labor.

The actual problem, which no one wants to face, is that there is a consolidation of the providers of labor. If there were more smaller stores competing with each other for a labor pool, then you would see pricing at value. As stores consolidate in areas, they have more impact on the labor force and can influence price of labor more. But at the "unskilled" levels, we aren't seeing a large influence, since unskilled labor is unskilled labor whether you're at Walmart, McDs, Starbucks, or any other place that needs floor mopping and cashier tending.
DrafterX Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
I'm all for a 30% minimum wage increase if you do it across the board... give everyone the increase and you won't find much objection... except the unemployed bassards I guess... Mellow
jetblasted Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
you sound like a democrat
wheelrite Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
oh jeez another failed Commie topic....


people's wage is like any other commodity,,

You will get paid for what it's worth,,

Want better pay ? Be a better commodity,,

Boo Hoo

wheel,,
DrafterX Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
jetblasted wrote:
you sound like a democrat



nope.. just pointing out the flaws.. Mellow
tailgater Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
DrafterX wrote:
I'm all for a 30% minimum wage increase if you do it across the board... give everyone the increase and you won't find much objection... except the unemployed bassards I guess... Mellow


Yeah.
Shame on those business owners, taking the risk to start a company.

Oh, and why stop at 30%? Go to 50%.

Inflation be damned.
It will help the manufacturing base.
In China.





HockeyDad Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
Brewha is angling for a raise again. Not gonna happen. Now get back to work.
MACS Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,824
Whoa. Wait. What? I agree with Victor?

Weird.

I am a member of a union. While I appreciate the support I get in terms of fair labor practices and legal counsel, should I ever need it, I think there are more drawbacks than benefits. They seem to breed mediocrity and laziness once a member is no longer probationary. Not in all people, but I'd venture to say more than half.

Which supports Victor's assertion that people want to get paid as much as they can for as little effort.
Gene363 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838
MACS wrote:
Whoa. Wait. What? I agree with Victor?

Weird.

I am a member of a union. While I appreciate the support I get in terms of fair labor practices and legal counsel, should I ever need it, I think there are more drawbacks than benefits. They seem to breed mediocrity and laziness once a member is no longer probationary. Not in all people, but I'd venture to say more than half.

Which supports Victor's assertion that people want to get paid as much as they can for as little effort.


My experience is about the same. Many years ago I was in a union, even a member of the wage/benefit negotiating team. The biggest PITA were the lazy F's that didn't work but wanted all sorts of crazy benefits and unrealistic raises. I do have to give profs to our business agent, well informed and balls of brass.
gryphonms Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 04-14-2013
Posts: 1,983
Could you please provide factual information that GM workers were/are worth what they are paid. If no facts support this your argument has no validity in regard to minimum wage.
frankj1 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
perhaps correct wording would be "paid what the market determines", not by worth.

However, the "market" used to have more players, more competition, which was the intention of our system. Enforcement and interpretation of laws intended to protect free enterprise and an open market free of collusion has slowly eroded and many industries have been condensed, giving them the edge, but also many regulations have handicapped them as well. Depending on which side of the management/labor issue you reside, this is great news or a big earnings curtailment.

Very likely neither the exec getting six figure bonuses nor the minimum wage folks are truly paid what they are worth, but certainly both are paid what the market will bear, currently labor has less say in that decision.
tailgater Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Why do people assume that those making minimum aren't getting paid what they're worth?

Come up here to Massachusetts.
Hire someone at minimum wage for a any job more taxing than a Walmart greeter or toll taker.
Tell me what you get.

Because if your results are different from mine, we can have a discussion on what I'm doing wrong.

Until then, let it be known that people do not want to earn their money, even if it's minimum wage.

That's a fact, Jack.

tailgater Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:

Kumbaya Comrade, Kumbaya.


frankj1 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
tailgater wrote:
Why do people assume that those making minimum aren't getting paid what they're worth?

Come up here to Massachusetts.
Hire someone at minimum wage for a any job more taxing than a Walmart greeter or toll taker.
Tell me what you get.

Because if your results are different from mine, we can have a discussion on what I'm doing wrong.

Until then, let it be known that people do not want to earn their money, even if it's minimum wage.

That's a fact, Jack.


pretty sure all of our hourly rate workers make more than minimum and some are not worth what we start them at, I happen to have a department of people worth more than others but there's nothing I can do about it to help them get more. All of those jobs have been "surveyed" with similar positions of surrounding companies and the "going rates" are our yardstick, so it's a local market value by position, not the individual's performance value dictating pay. To me, performance value=worth, local scale =market tolerance.

I just think "worth" is semantically incorrect in the current marketplace. If my boss could get people as good for less, he would, but they wouldn't take the job for less. That's why I say what the market will bear...it's probably nit picking.


frankj1 Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
Come up here to Massachusetts.
Hire someone at minimum wage for a any job more taxing than a Walmart greeter or toll taker.
Tell me what you get.

Joe, what have you been getting out of the people hired at above minimum? truly curious to compare your results to mine, as you know, also in Massachusetts.

Brewha Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
victor809 wrote:
The idea that the highest paid groups are paid more than they are worth does not support the argument that the lowest paid aren't paid what they are worth.

In fact, the argument that a Walmart employee is more productive now than a GM factory worker was 50 years ago is horribly flawed. The GM factory worker, while poorly educated, was still performing tasks for which we had minimal automation. The modern Walmart worker is NOT "made more productive" by the technology available today. His job is mostly performed by technology and his job is simply to move a barcode over a scanner and push a couple buttons, or simply move a couple pallets around to restock. Do you see the difference? Technology hasn't made him more productive, it has made HIS TASK more productive, but made him a much smaller part of the whole.

I don't argue that business and banks have a lot of political power, but one side having a lot of political power doesn't prove the argument either.
The employer WANTS to pay as little as possible for as much work. Duh.
But what you're forgetting is that the employee WANTS to be paid as much as possible for as little work as well.

Unionizing doesn't give you "fair" wages any more than a telecom monopoly will give you "fair" phone fees. Unionizing is just a monopoly on a good (or service)... labor.

The actual problem, which no one wants to face, is that there is a consolidation of the providers of labor. If there were more smaller stores competing with each other for a labor pool, then you would see pricing at value. As stores consolidate in areas, they have more impact on the labor force and can influence price of labor more. But at the "unskilled" levels, we aren't seeing a large influence, since unskilled labor is unskilled labor whether you're at Walmart, McDs, Starbucks, or any other place that needs floor mopping and cashier tending.

So you agree it is a myth then?
Brewha Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
wheelrite wrote:
oh jeez another failed Commie topic....


people's wage is like any other commodity,,

You will get paid for what it's worth,,

Want better pay ? Be a better commodity,,

Boo Hoo

wheel,,

You disappoint me Wheel. I was expecting you to treat us to a full on boot strap lecture and maybe even a little Obamaphone disdain on the side.

Realy wheel, what's the fun of being a conservative if you don't rear up on your hind legs and give them libberbulls the what for?
opelmanta1900 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
wheel didn't need to do all that... he was spot on with what he said... cry baby liberals want everyone to make the same amount regardless of what you do for a living... it's socialism and it's an active government in several countries in the world... people who want that type of government should move themselves to a land where that kind of government is active, not try to import it into our society...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
and as for the original post, it is a myth that people are paid what they're worth... most minimum wage workers don't deserve even that... the lazy and uneducated are always unappreciative... perhaps we should lower minimum wage and make them thankful for what they had...
Brewha Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
tailgater wrote:
Why do people assume that those making minimum aren't getting paid what they're worth?

Come up here to Massachusetts.
Hire someone at minimum wage for a any job more taxing than a Walmart greeter or toll taker.
Tell me what you get.

Because if your results are different from mine, we can have a discussion on what I'm doing wrong.

Until then, let it be known that people do not want to earn their money, even if it's minimum wage.

That's a fact, Jack.


I assume that you exclude yourself from you assertion that "people do not want to earn their money", right?


The point of the article I posted (Huffington post) is that those in power set the wages. True of unions and tycoons alike. The idea that people are payed what they are worth is both misleading and false. It covers up and glosses over the exploitation of those who are at a disadvantage and tells us that they deserve it.

While capitalize is a great and good thing, it still must be regulated. As there are those whom will take endless advantage of others . . . .
Brewha Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
opelmanta1900 wrote:
wheel didn't need to do all that... he was spot on with what he said... cry baby liberals want everyone to make the same amount regardless of what you do for a living... it's socialism and it's an active government in several countries in the world... people who want that type of government should move themselves to a land where that kind of government is active, not try to import it into our society...

Our society (the United States) was founded by liberals with liberal principles. But they were wise enough to allow even the most narrow minded conservatives to coexist with us as they too have a valued place. No matter how scared of ideas they are.

You remind of some kids I knew in high school that didn't want to take social studies for fear of becoming communists.....
opelmanta1900 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
I've been to plenty of socialist countries... I know what it is, know the effect it has on people...

your idea that this country was founded by "liberals" -as in the same liberals we have today in this country - couldn't be further from the truth... a small amount of study would make this abundantly clear to you...
victor809 Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Come on Brew... You're extrapolating a few steps too far.

I agree that there are other factors besides the value of the labor which influence its price (up or down).

But your solution is to mandate a wage for labor based on a perception of what people NEED. This is in no way related to the value of that labor and is non negotiable. That is like smashing the bowl because it's too small to fit the cereal you want. Mandating a price for all labor at the low end takes away all negotiating power for the worker and leaves the labor supplier with a very simple yes/no decision "do I want to pay X$ to get this done".... Since the price cannot be negotiated some percentage of those jobs will not get done.
Brewha Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
opelmanta1900 wrote:
I've been to plenty of socialist countries... I know what it is, know the effect it has on people...

your idea that this country was founded by "liberals" -as in the same liberals we have today in this country - couldn't be further from the truth... a small amount of study would make this abundantly clear to you...

You mean the Liberals of today weren't around 200 years ago? I just assumed that since ****** Cheney was . . .


Seriously, discussing fairness in the market place is not a socialist activity. And neither is enforcing at at some level. And calling it that is just misdirection. I see this crap all the time:

What about labor laws? "AaaahK, that's communisum!"

I don't want toll roads. "OMG! You're a socialist!"

The US spends 9 time more than any other country on it's millitary. "TRAITOR!"




Opel, you should feel fortunate that still Cbid has a few liberals to help show the way.

- you're welcome
Brewha Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
victor809 wrote:
Come on Brew... You're extrapolating a few steps too far.

I agree that there are other factors besides the value of the labor which influence its price (up or down).

But your solution is to mandate a wage for labor based on a perception of what people NEED. This is in no way related to the value of that labor and is non negotiable. That is like smashing the bowl because it's too small to fit the cereal you want. Mandating a price for all labor at the low end takes away all negotiating power for the worker and leaves the labor supplier with a very simple yes/no decision "do I want to pay X$ to get this done".... Since the price cannot be negotiated some percentage of those jobs will not get done.

I was floating the idea that people believe a myth. I take it that you do not. At least now.

In other threads I have said we need to increase the minimum wage - true. But weren't you the guy with the "theory" that it would cause kids to drop out of school? Didn't you make the case that the minimum wage had not been raised in five year because "they did not deserve it"?
victor809 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Don't be so black and white... You're sounding like a conservative.

I can think there are factors influencing what would otherwise be fair pay AND believe that a minimum wage will negatively impact education AND believe there are workers who don't deserve the minimum wage. These are not mutually exclusive concepts.

Because there are factors impacting the wages, your solution is to enforce an across the board minimum. This is a dumb solution... A better solution would be to deal with the factors. When your solution has no impact on the factors, but instead creates another set of externalities, you create additional issues.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Brewha wrote:
You mean the Liberals of today weren't around 200 years ago? I just assumed that since ****** Cheney was . . .


Seriously, discussing fairness in the market place is not a socialist activity. And neither is enforcing at at some level. And calling it that is just misdirection. I see this crap all the time:

What about labor laws? "AaaahK, that's communisum!"

I don't want toll roads. "OMG! You're a socialist!"

The US spends 9 time more than any other country on it's millitary. "TRAITOR!"




Opel, you should feel fortunate that still Cbid has a few liberals to help show the way.

- you're welcome


fairness? you're crying about fairness? redistribution of wealth is a socialist concept and your attempt to disguise it as "fairness" in the workplace makes you look like a crybaby who can't handle the harsh reality that you create your own destiny in this land...

if you don't like it, no one has you staked to American soil... you can always leave... problem is, this country you're trying so hard to change is one of the few places left on earth that will allow you to cry about how unfair life is... so you're kinda in a pickle...

victor809 Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Now hang on...

I don't agree with Brew, but he's right, calling it a socialist redistribution of wealth is an extreme exaggeration at best.

It's a government regulation for the most part. It isn't a redistribution because it doesn't require the employer to keep the job in place... They can fire everyone or automate or hire people at the higher rate and force them to do twice the work.

I don't like the idea of a minimum wage, and I definitely don't like the idea of raising it simply because someone decided that all jobs require a pay level that a family can survive on. But I wouldn't call it socialism...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
victor809 wrote:
Now hang on...

I don't agree with Brew, but he's right, calling it a socialist redistribution of wealth is an extreme exaggeration at best.

It's a government regulation for the most part. It isn't a redistribution because it doesn't require the employer to keep the job in place... They can fire everyone or automate or hire people at the higher rate and force them to do twice the work.

I don't like the idea of a minimum wage, and I definitely don't like the idea of raising it simply because someone decided that all jobs require a pay level that a family can survive on. But I wouldn't call it socialism...


it is redistribution of wealth... if it isn't, where does the new money for the increase in wage come from? The government is going to pay the $2 increase? No, it was in the hands of people "x" and it's being moved by government force into the hands of people "y"...

to say the employer doesn't have to keep the job in place is like saying, "well they can always just shut their business down"... well of course they can, but they've still been strong armed into it by government policies that essentially amount to you either giving up some of your wealth or giving up your means of making that wealth...

McDonalds employees - although close - can't be fully automated just yet... and as for requiring hourly workers to do twice the work - if you can figure out how to do that you've probably solved every labor problem I and everyone else in this state has ever had...

Now to split hairs... I never called it socialism as you have so brutally portrayed me as having said... I said redistribution of wealth is a socialist concept... it may have originated with communism, but it is still a concept enforced by socialism...
victor809 Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I could have misread you. But my point still stands. It is not necessarily a redistribution of wealth. It's a regulation... Similar in effect to a minimum emissions standard or something similar. The business is required only to comply within the specifications of the regulation.

A redistribution of wealth is specifically that... The person being redistributed from has no choice (ie taxes or something like that) seizure or land, factories wealth etc... That is true redistribution.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
it's actually much more efficient than redistribution of wealth... rather than the government taking from X and giving to Y, they just stand over X's shoulder and force him to give it to Y... cuts out the middle man...

Correction: "force him/her to give it to Y"... X isn't always a white man... just most the time...
victor809 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Huh... Not sure race even enters into the discussion. I agree it's more efficient than redistribution tho...

Essentially it's govt imposed price fixing.... Like forcing dairy farms to sell milk at a minimum price point... The govt is forcing the workers to sell their services at a minimum price.
wheelrite Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
Will Prostitutes cost more now ?


wheel,
Brewha Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
victor809 wrote:
... You're sounding like a conservative.

You're trying to hurt my feelings, aren't you?
Brewha Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
opelmanta1900 wrote:
fairness? you're crying about fairness? redistribution of wealth is a socialist concept and your attempt to disguise it as "fairness" in the workplace makes you look like a crybaby who can't handle the harsh reality that you create your own destiny in this land...

if you don't like it, no one has you staked to American soil... you can always leave... problem is, this country you're trying so hard to change is one of the few places left on earth that will allow you to cry about how unfair life is... so you're kinda in a pickle...


As many people recognize, we live in a period of growing wealth redistribution - in the form of the increasing concentration of wealth in the hands of a few. The wage gap is ever widening and it is supported by the truly foolish people who believe that income inequality is good business. But then people are easily fooled, all you have to do is cry socialism!

And as far as Americans go, one of the freedoms we hold most dear is that of speech and diverse opinions. So inviting people to leave the country who disagree with you is a poor, and frankly, un-American attitude. But then maybe you're just part of our beloved huddled masses and just don't know any better . . . .
Brewha Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
wheelrite wrote:
Will Prostitutes cost more now ?


wheel,


Worse, according to Drafter many will have to “close up shop”.

I suppose the pimps will have to run their businesses by hand . . . .
opelmanta1900 Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Brewha wrote:
As many people recognize, we live in a period of growing wealth redistribution - in the form of the increasing concentration of wealth in the hands of a few. The wage gap is ever widening and it is supported by the truly foolish people who believe that income inequality is good business. But then people are easily fooled, all you have to do is cry socialism!

And as far as Americans go, one of the freedoms we hold most dear is that of speech and diverse opinions. So inviting people to leave the country who disagree with you is a poor, and frankly, un-American attitude. But then maybe you're just part of our beloved huddled masses and just don't know any better . . . .


or maybe I just think you're just a douche bag our country would be better off without...
Brewha Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
Thinking! Not you're strong suit I take it.


Jeez, where is Beef Supreme when you need him?Herfing
wheelrite Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
opelmanta1900 wrote:
or maybe I just think you're just a douche bag our country would be better off without...


Dude !!!!

Brewha may be a commie,, But he IS our commie and we love him,,,,,

now play nice..

wheel,,

DrafterX Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Brewha is a commie..?? was it a choice or was he born that way..?? Huh
wheelrite Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
DrafterX wrote:
Brewha is a commie..?? was it a choice or was he born that way..?? Huh


a choice,,
He couldn't get laid in High School and decided then that everyone should equal amounts of poon,,


wheel,
DrafterX Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
we get Obamapoon now..?? Huh
Brewha Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
I just knew I should have stayed in bed today.


This is all my fault. I can see that now . . . .
DrafterX Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
would there have been poon if you did..?? Huh
Brewha Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
Could have been. But she was up making coffee. And I was too hung over anyway . . . .


Wait, what was that about Obamapoon???







Never mind. I'm still waiting on my gd Obamaphone.......
DrafterX Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Laugh




I never got my Obamaphone either..!! Mad
victor809 Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I think as long as you have a job there is a govt mandated minimum amount of poon you're supposed to get. I think they did a calculation to figure out ho much poon a family of 4 needs to survive or something.

DrafterX Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Think
well, maybe mandating you have to have a job to get poon might not be a bad idea... Think
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