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Last post 9 years ago by ZRX1200. 62 replies replies.
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An interesting dilema
Abrignac Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,278
Maine governor vows to use full extent of authority on Ebola nurse

(Reuters) - Maine Governor Paul LePage vowed on Thursday to use the full extent of his authority in response to a nurse who has treated Ebola patients in Sierra Leone, after she left her home in Maine and took a bicycle ride despite a quarantine order.

LePage said his office had been in talks overnight Wednesday to work out a deal for how Kaci Hickox, who has tested negative for Ebola, will spend the remaining time until Nov. 10, the period that the state has ordered her to remain at home as she waits out the virus's maximum 21-day incubation period.

"I was ready and willing - and remain ready and willing - to reasonably address the needs of healthcare workers meeting guidelines to assure the public health is protected," LePage, a Republican locked in a tight three-way re-election campaign, said in a statement.

Hickox, 33, returned to the United States last week after treating Ebola patients in Sierra Leone. LePage referred to her not by name, http://news.yahoo.com/maine-governor-vows-full-extent-authority-ebola-nurse-191712151.htmlbut as a person now staying in Fort Kent, near the Canadian border.

LePage said his office would be open to a deal under which Hickox could serve her quarantine under terms that would have allowed a bike ride so long as she remained 3 feet (90 cm) from other people.

Absent an agreement, LePage plans to use "the full extent of his authority allowable by law," his office said in a statement.

Attorneys for Hickox said they had not yet been served with a court order to enforce a 21-day quarantine but remained prepared to fight one if necessary.

Hickox says she is completely healthy and has been monitoring her condition and taking her temperature twice a day.

(Reporting by Scott Malone in Boston; Editing by Mohammad Zargham)




__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I'm thinking there is a problem with the Governor's plan....


1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution wrote:


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.





4th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution wrote:


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.




5th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution wrote:


No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.




14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution wrote:

Section 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.



Not really sure what the solution is but.....

ZRX1200 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,617
My favorite is people like SMGBOBBYSCOTT who think anti-vaccine parents are dumb because they put his kids at risk and doesn't care about the parents concern about vaccines (real or perceived). Those kids and parents in his eyes have no rights.

Yet some lib broad who KNEW she was going to a high risk area gets sympathy from these people. States have leeway with this law, don't like it? USE THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS THEN!!! Challenge the law in court or push to have it changed.
teedubbya Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
She does not have Ebola. She has tested negative. She is in no way high risk. It's a political farce.

I try to never bash on the anti-immunization crowd because I get it it's an emotional issue and frankly people have the right to protect or not protect their children in this regard however they please.

Science suggest that it is Asians are safe and actually do a greater good for society. Some folks disagree with that and even say the science was wrong.

Science suggest that this lady is of no risk to anybody else. Some folks adjust that science is wrong.

i'll except that fact that science sometimes can be wrong but once proven wrong science will change. But if you're basing your believes not on science but on your gut or something else you could never be proven wrong in that she will never change.

This is a political thing in Maine it's not a healthcare thing.
teedubbya Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
How did voice recognition translate immunizations as Asians? Lol. Better lay off the abelour
teedubbya Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Damon that reads rough. **** it.
ZRX1200 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,617
Yes but they decided on that 21 day quarantine because of the incubation period. It's not unreasonable to me for someone returning from a high risk area until those areas get it under control.

I get your point, or the scotch's point.

I like your phones autocorrect it's funnier than you!
(Just kidding)

Sincerely,
my phone
frankj1 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
I like the way this is going.
ZRX1200 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,617
It would be more fun if I wasn't oncall, I could be drunk too.

My posts are like ugly broads, they get better with booze.
teedubbya Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I'm thinker than I drunk I was.
teedubbya Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Picked up a bottle of abelour abundh for $50 tonight.

It reminds me of how drafter described his first time taking it in the bum. It stings a little at first then becomes very enjoyable.
frankj1 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
joking and booze aside, here are two things I think about,

for every demand of absolute freedoms, there is always a "yelling fire in a crowded theater" situation that absolutists are willing to consider as exceptions...

but I'd still back allowing Nazis to march in Skokie. Sometimes the ACLU is on your side too. Not easy being unpopular when protecting rights.

Z, this is an interesting dilema
teedubbya Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
If we learned anything from Abe Lincoln it's you shouldn't go to the theater anyway.
teedubbya Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I hate Illinois Nazis
ZRX1200 Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,617
Frank if you were directing that at me it's a very fair point but protection of the public is one of the few ENUMERATED powers the government has. How far that goes should be the reasonable discussion here.

I've stated MANY times here in the past one of my major problems with our broken immigration policy is people not being screened like they used to be. Now turd world diseases have been resurgent and the answer is vaccines.

I don't like treating symptoms, I like avoiding creation of problems when reaasonable. And in turn this is a major reason I have issues with vaccines, my child is subject to MULTIPLE shots because the Fed's cannot manage one of the few things they damn well SHOULD be doing.

Make sense?
frankj1 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
teedubbya wrote:
I hate Illinois Nazis

well, natch. that's why it was unpopular for the ACLU to be correct.
teedubbya Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
ACLU has sucked since Lou Alcindor changed his name.
frankj1 Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
ZRX1200 wrote:
Frank if you were directing that at me it's a very fair point but protection of the public is one of the few ENUMERATED powers the government has. How far that goes should be the reasonable discussion here.

I've stated MANY times here in the past one of my major problems with our broken immigration policy is people not being screened like they used to be. Now turd world diseases have been resurgent and the answer is vaccines.

I don't like treating symptoms, I like avoiding creation of problems when reaasonable. And in turn this is a major reason I have issues with vaccines, my child is subject to MULTIPLE shots because the Fed's cannot manage one of the few things they damn well SHOULD be doing.

Make sense?

yes you, and others too, and without malice. Simply an observation from many years of passion and discussion about freedom and our rights with all kinds of radicals in and around Boston/Cambridge growing up in the "turbulent" 60's and 70's. I used to think I was correct being absolute in my beliefs, but maybe I got beat down as I aged, maybe coopted, or absorbed by the "system", or somehow drifted a bit back to center.

You are making total sense. Do not lose passion or we are doomed, doomed I say!
frankj1 Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
teedubbya wrote:
ACLU has sucked since Lou Alcindor changed his name.

They had some good times with Bill Abdul Walton though.
csgamecock Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 05-08-2012
Posts: 2,448
SMGBOBBYSCOTT LOVES SANTA!!


Threadjack over


exit stage left.................
teedubbya Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
But wilt the stilt had more fun than Walton. Over 1000? I just don't have that much jab.
frankj1 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
according to this gem from Victor
http://jezebel.com/study-men-who-sleep-with-over-20-women-have-lower-pros-1651683136

Wilt may have exaggerated a bit or he'd still be among the living.
ZRX1200 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,617
I got jab for days yo.
cacman Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Believe more people will get sick with and possible die from the flu than ebola.
Should we force quarantine on all those people too?
HockeyDad Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,137
cacman wrote:
Believe more people will get sick with and possible die from the flu than ebola.
Should we force quarantine on all those people too?



Just the poor ones.
HockeyDad Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,137
I was in Canada this week. To get through Canadian customs, I had to answer some Ebola-related questions. (I guess because I came from an Ebola-infected country!)
When I returned to the USA, I did not have to answer anything Ebola-related. Neither US or Canadian customs were checking anyone for fevers.

The whole Ebola panic seems just a bit media manufactured.
Krazeehorse Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 04-09-2010
Posts: 1,958
As long as we have the resources to combat the virus we should be relatively safe. However it seems to me that ebola could be an effective terrorist tool. I would think that suicide "bombers" would have a much easier time bringing ebola into the country with them than they would explosive devices. Probably won't happen, just my tin-foil hat thinking.
teedubbya Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
This is one of the only people in the world we know does not have ebola and is not contagous. To have the public or politicians want to quarentine her is a microcasm of the hysterea and lack of critical thinking skills.
Abrignac Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,278
teedubbya wrote:
....lack of critical thinking skills.


Democrats???
Mr. Jones Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,431
I say quarentine that liberal vegetarian hippy loud mouthed BEOTCH....
EVERY SOLDIER THAT GOES OVER TO THAT HURTIN CONTINENT HAS TO QUARENTINE FOR 21 DAYS....

WHAT??? Makes her any different......

The soldiers are just guarding and doing logistical supply stuff....that red headed CLOWN was in the tents w/ EBOLA VICTIMS...i.e. in the thick of all the
fluids flying and sneezing sick people are.

Who the f$ck wouldnt want a "three week paid vacation" at home after being in that $HIT HOLE
LIBERIA for months???

She needs a big purple beet stuck into her flapping trap pie hole...
HockeyDad Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,137
Mr. Jones wrote:
I say quarentine that liberal vegetarian hippy loud mouthed BEOTCH....
EVERY SOLDIER THAT GOES OVER TO THAT HURTIN CONTINENT HAS TO QUARENTINE FOR 21 DAYS....

WHAT??? Makes her any different......



She's not a soldier so she has rights.
teedubbya Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Abrignac wrote:
Democrats???



if that is who is pushing to quarentine her.
teedubbya Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Mr. Jones wrote:
I say quarentine that liberal vegetarian hippy loud mouthed BEOTCH....
EVERY SOLDIER THAT GOES OVER TO THAT HURTIN CONTINENT HAS TO QUARENTINE FOR 21 DAYS....

WHAT??? Makes her any different......

The soldiers are just guarding and doing logistical supply stuff....that red headed CLOWN was in the tents w/ EBOLA VICTIMS...i.e. in the thick of all the
fluids flying and sneezing sick people are.

Who the f$ck wouldnt want a "three week paid vacation" at home after being in that $HIT HOLE
LIBERIA for months???

She needs a big purple beet stuck into her flapping trap pie hole...



The soldiers are getting paid and could be confined to barracks for any reason including their CO just plain feels like it. It is also cheaper becasue you don't need to test them all (although they still may).

The irony is we want to quarentine the one person we know doesn't have the virus. Its for show.
teedubbya Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Yet how many people are scared to call in sick for work and go in anyway while highly contageous? The virus that started in the KC area that has killed some kids is much more contageous and has spread like wild fire. The pandemic prep done previously for bird flu etc was widely made fun of because the pandemic never happened (catch 22). now we want to quarranteen a person we know not to have ebola. Hysterical much?
victor809 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Hold on TW.

You're not looking at this the right way.

That nurse doesn't have Ebola. EVERYONE ELSE in the rest of the nation may or may not be infected with Ebola. Her quarantine would just be the start of a "safe zone" (current population - 1).

:)
Mr. Jones Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,431
Do you think her "boyfriend" tapped that mouthy broad after todays' " infamous bike ride" ?

Wore a raincoat? Or not?
teedubbya Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I don't get the vitriol towards her. She knows much more about Ebola than most. She has done more to try to stop Ebola than any of us. she doesn't have Ebola. She knows it, and she's trying to prove a point to the hysterical over reacting politicians and other idiots that are acting out just like the morons in virtually every bad horror movie. The ones that panic and make things worse.
TMCTLT Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
teedubbya wrote:
The soldiers are getting paid and could be confined to barracks for any reason including their CO just plain feels like it. It is also cheaper becasue you don't need to test them all (although they still may).

The irony is we want to quarentine the one person we know doesn't have the virus. Its for show.



So.....I take it you know for a Fact that she was NOT being paid by the CDC ( her Employer ) while doing her DWOB stint??

I have heard MANY " beliefs " from doctors in the HC business and reports ARE mixed as to how early on a person could be a carrier without showing signs of the disease as well as the length of time necessary to monitor someone thought to have been exposed. It's more of a " common sense" thing as much as anything.....she's a selfish self centered twit IMHO
teedubbya Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I don't know if she is or isn't. I wasn't saying she wasn't getting paid. I was saying the soldiers are, by their primary employer who owns them and can do what they want Ebola or otherwise. It's very different to be a soldier than a private citizen.

A selfish twit that traveled half way around the world to do her part in stopping a third world Ebola outbreak from becoming a global issue. You do realize how absurd it is to call her selfish. Fear has a way of crying otherwise intelligent people's minds. Common sense my ass. Hysteria.

No one is suggesting she shouldn't self monitor or get continually tested (which she has. She does not have Ebola). But the politics on this is ugly and shameful.
teedubbya Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Crying = frying.

This person knows way more about Ebola than any of us or our politicians.
TMCTLT Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
teedubbya wrote:
Crying = frying.

This person knows way more about Ebola than any of us or our politicians.




Apparently our Judges think they know more than anyone. So there's no possibility that she joined DWOB simply to have That on her resume'?? You and she share a commonality, you both Think you know more than others......For absolutely NO reason.....and btw if you work for the CDC.....your ALSO a Gov. Employee.....subject to it's decisions. Seems they're working from two different play books though.....doesn't it?
teedubbya Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Sometimes well meaning people through fear and ignorance cause the very issue they are trying to mitigate to get worse.
TMCTLT Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
teedubbya wrote:
Sometimes well meaning people through fear and ignorance cause the very issue they are trying to mitigate to get worse.




And......Sometimes NOT fog
teedubbya Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
If you really believe enlisting in the military is remotely similar to accepting a job at the CDC then I accept the fact that you either hold the average fed employee in high esteem like the average military folks or you hold all military folks in contempt like you do Feds. I don't beleive you do nor should you. Enlisting in the military is a much bigger commitment where they own you 24/7. You give up some of your rights. The CDC is a job. One can send you to buttemunch Montana because they feel like it. The other can send the job there but you decide what you want to do. So let's not be silly here.

As for the judicial branch I'm not really sure what you are trying to say. I know you have no faith in that branch nor do I. So if you are saying they suck and their decisions are made on law rather than science I agree with you.

I know you consider yourself as very knowledgeable in the area of health care and health care delivery because you know people that work in health care. Then you know that often things are not definitive. The practice of health care involves risk assessment and proper mitigation. Proper mitigation involves balance appropriate with the risk. There is such a thing as over mitigation.

I'm more worried about the virus that is putting our children in ICUs a cross the country and likely killng along the way. It is much more contagious, much more prevlant and will likely kill more in this country than Ebola ever will. I had a long discussion about this with a couple docs at a premier facility in the country. It's scary.

Ebola is a press/political darling. Combine fear with fuel and a little bit of laymans knowledge and you get convinced someone is selfish or evil or stupid although they were knowledgeable about Ebola long before you were and they cared enough to attempt to do something about it at great personal risk. No one knows her intent but her. You write it off as resume building. I don't. There are better and safer ways to build a resume. She didn't ask for the Spotlight like our politicians she just responded and refused to sit down and shut up. And folks vilify her and assume bad intent on her part? To beleive your version of her takes quite a leap in logic. It emotional. It's fear.

I'm all for self monitoring and testing but this person knows way more than us and deserves the benefit of the doubt. We don't want to stifle folks from attempting to control this outbreak or it will find its way here.
teedubbya Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
If you start with the experts are stupid and know nothing and beleive the non experts (politicians, press, average joe) know more then there is really no argument to be had.

The experts don't know everything. Of course they don't. In health care it's not possible. In my situation with my heart not much has changed with me but there was a dramatic change in science this year based on evidence and their best guess.

I know some don't beleive in educated guesses but much of health care is just that. I'll weigh the educated guess if the Cleveland Clinic higher than that of an average joe making an uneducated guess. You have to figure out who to trust. If the CDC is simply always wrong then who do you trust? Politicians of either party? The press? Who?

teedubbya Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
This remind me of post 911 when so many were willing to give up their rights out of fear and those that were not were unpatriotic morons with something to hide. Yet on other issues those very same people are absolutists.
ZRX1200 Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,617
Yeah, this is exactly like TSA groping/body cavity searches, and illegal wiretaps.
teedubbya Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
It is very similar and more intrusive. You are suspending an individual's rights supposedly for the greater good. You are either imprisoning them in a facility or their home. To me that's equal or greater.

I'm actually ok with it if they have Ebola. But they don't. So what's the next thing you might have that allows the government to lock you up even though you have no symptoms and have tested negative multiple times?

What about the other virus folks are ignoring. If your kid has been around another kid or a school that has exposure should your family get quaranteened at gunpoint even though you test negative and have no symptoms? Where does it end?

It's pure politics and drama. There are equally deadly more contagous viruses amongst us. This one is sexy to the politicians the others are not. We are treating this one differently. Hmmm. Again we make fun of the reaction to a potential pandemic that was avoided but go ape**** over this. why?
teedubbya Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I thought folks in here were generally for less government and thought the government was generally wrong.
teedubbya Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
By the way there is an argument that would make me change my mind nobody's made it yet though. :)
teedubbya Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
And my guess is that argument is soon to be made at a federal level and things will change slightly
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