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Shooting in Charleston, SC
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Bitter Klinger Offline
#1 Posted: Wed, Apr 8 2015, 6:31 PM EST
Joined: 03-23-2013
Posts: 877

I'm sorry but there's some wierd stuff happening with this. First, its odd that the media keeps showing the shooting on TV - they usually won't do that so fast. If ever. Second, the next day Moms on TV with nary a tear in her eye, hoping it never happens to anyone else without so much as a tremor in her voice. Third, the "victim" ran awful far for having 5 bullets in him, and still managed to soften his fall with his arms after an alleged heart shot? The fall looked staged in the video to me. Fourth, Press conference - mumble, mumble, mumble, then "WEVE ORDERED BODY CAMERAS FOR ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS!". Clap, clap, clap. Huh? Fifth, The "crowd' of protesters was about eleven people with the same signs from Ferguson. There's a lot more, but I'll wait a bit.

This smells like false flag to me, but lets sit back and see what develops. I predict what develops will be nationwide "calls" to outfit the entire nations police forces with body cameras asap. Anything less will just be raciss.
frankj1 Offline
#2 Posted: Wed, Apr 8 2015, 7:10 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
why do we have to wait to see what develops, but you don't have to?

Heard a report that should give you hope despite the odds being so obviously stacked against the home team though...two hundred and some odd shootings by police in SC in x amount of recent years...zero convictions. I'll say that again...ZERO. ( Did you know this?) So you got that going for ya in the fight against reverse racism.

Wow. Is it not remotely possible, whether this case or another, that at least sometimes the side we love does evil? There are no heroes on any team anymore, perhaps some individuals will emerge someday though.

I agree, we should hold judgement. I will.
frankj1 Offline
#3 Posted: Wed, Apr 8 2015, 7:42 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
to clarify my "reverse racism" remark as it relates to the 200 plus win streak, I in no way meant to imply that this has anything at all to do with racism. there were no stats attached to the report indicating that even a majority involved minorities, nor was there any indication regarding the ethnicity of the police members involved.

Sorry for any misinterpretation.
delta1 Offline
#4 Posted: Wed, Apr 8 2015, 7:50 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,810
Looked like a clear case of excessive force and unjustified homicide. The unarmed person was running away from the officer, was no threat to the officer, nor to anyone else (not mentioned in the statements in his report) when the officer shot. There has to be an imminent threat to the safety of someone to justify deadly force. This was basically a summary execution for a non-capital offense. The officer compounded his actions by tampering with evidence in a homicide scene when he picked up an object and put it near the body, seemingly in an attempt to stage the scene to match his radio call after the shooting.

The other officer at the scene who witnessed the act of putting an object next to the body should have reported it. If he didn't, he should be disciplined. If he did report it, then the department failed to take timely action, waiting until the video surfaced to do the right thing.

Body cameras; community outreach; revised, refined and extra training; policy revisions; civil and criminal cases; federal investigations ... ad nauseum will not correct the inherent problem: deeply flawed humans trying to do a job that they are unsuited to do within communities of people they despise and mistrust and who feel the same way about their PD.
Bitter Klinger Offline
#5 Posted: Wed, Apr 8 2015, 8:03 PM EST
Joined: 03-23-2013
Posts: 877
frankj1 wrote:
why do we have to wait to see what develops, but you don't have to?

Heard a report that should give you hope despite the odds being so obviously stacked against the home team though...two hundred and some odd shootings by police in SC in x amount of recent years...zero convictions. I'll say that again...ZERO. ( Did you know this?) So you got that going for ya in the fight against reverse racism.

Wow. Is it not remotely possible, whether this case or another, that at least sometimes the side we love does evil? There are no heroes on any team anymore, perhaps some individuals will emerge someday though.

I agree, we should hold judgement. I will.


You're right - I said "lets" but I shouldn't have. I should have said "I'll" just as you did. My bad.

Frank, I don't really have a "side" on this unless it becomes very plausible that nobody died in order for another manufactured event to create an un-needed "demand" for even more un-wanted surveillance to be forced upon the nation as a whole. I would then be on the side that wants to reveal events that aren't real for what they really are.

Let me say also that IF this event is on the up&up, it APPEARS to be blatant murder. Regardless what allegedly transpired before the first shot. In fact, it appears to be incredulously, unbelieveably, super-stupid undeniably murder. Like how is it even possible that someone with enough intelligence to pull their hand out of a fire could possibly do something this effing stupid murder. Yeah, people do stupid things. But cops aren't stupid - its hard to become one, and rightfully so. This act we think we see taking place in this vid - I dunno, I'll wait some more and see.

N. Chas was my home for 8 years - I know the demographics there, or at least did then. I'm sure with the major military downsizing that Charleston's Naval & Air Forces have recently suffered, it has changed, likely for the worse. I have no facts on recent crime or shooting statistics there, but I'd love to read your sources.
frankj1 Offline
#6 Posted: Wed, Apr 8 2015, 8:10 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
Bitter Klinger wrote:
You're right - I said "lets" but I shouldn't have. I should have said "I'll" just as you did. My bad.

Frank, I don't really have a "side" on this unless it becomes very plausible that nobody died in order for another manufactured event to create an un-needed "demand" for even more un-wanted surveillance to be forced upon the nation as a whole. I would then be on the side that wants to reveal events that aren't real for what they really are.

Let me say also that IF this event is on the up&up, it APPEARS to be blatant murder. Regardless what allegedly transpired before the first shot. In fact, it appears to be incredulously, unbelieveably, super-stupid undeniably murder. Like how is it even possible that someone with enough intelligence to pull their hand out of a fire could possibly do something this effing stupid murder. Yeah, people do stupid things. But cops aren't stupid - its hard to become one, and rightfully so. This act we think we see taking place in this vid - I dunno, I'll wait some more and see.

N. Chas was my home for 8 years - I know the demographics there, or at least did then. I'm sure with the major military downsizing that Charleston's Naval & Air Forces have recently suffered, it has changed, likely for the worse. I have no facts on recent crime or shooting statistics there, but I'd love to read your sources.

my source was prime time evening news.
Bitter Klinger Offline
#7 Posted: Wed, Apr 8 2015, 8:14 PM EST
Joined: 03-23-2013
Posts: 877
delta1 wrote:
...
Body cameras; community outreach; revised, refined and extra training; policy revisions; civil and criminal cases; federal investigations ... ad nauseum will not correct the inherent problem: deeply flawed humans trying to do a job that they are unsuited to do within communities of people they despise and mistrust and who feel the same way about their PD.


Theres some truth there.

But there is also the truth that crime statistics routinely show a disproportionately high level of crime amongst certain races. Both against themselves and others.

I disagree that the deeply flawed humans are the police and not the criminals though. And to say they despise the public they are trying to protect is insulting. For what theyre paid, and with their lives on the line, I'm amazed they take the jobs at all in the high crime areas. I damn sure wouldn't.
Bitter Klinger Offline
#8 Posted: Wed, Apr 8 2015, 8:15 PM EST
Joined: 03-23-2013
Posts: 877
frankj1 wrote:
my source was prime time evening news.


Do you trust them?
frankj1 Offline
#9 Posted: Wed, Apr 8 2015, 8:18 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
Bitter Klinger wrote:
Do you trust them?

not blindly, more than bloggers in many cases though.

200. think no one has challenged that yet from SC?
tailgater Offline
#10 Posted: Wed, Apr 8 2015, 8:26 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
BK,
It's fine to be cautious, but when somebody cries conspiracy within 24 hours of first seeing the news it reeks of biased interpretation.

It reminds me of those that thought the Boston Marathon bombing was a false flag.

Of course, history has proven those folks to be idiots, plain and simple.

Let your skepticism guide you to investigate further if you choose. And if real facts support your theory then run with it. Until then, a little respect should be given for the dead guy and his family.
What if it were someone you knew, and you read that he fell too gently or ran too slow?

This reeks of tragedy, and will hurt even the good cops before the story dies.
Bitter Klinger Offline
#11 Posted: Wed, Apr 8 2015, 8:28 PM EST
Joined: 03-23-2013
Posts: 877
frankj1 wrote:
not blindly, more than bloggers in many cases though.

200. think no one has challenged that yet from SC?


I'm not sure which bloggers your talking about, but I will say I trust very little of what the media says, especially on TV, regardless of which channel or network.

I do believe the liberal media is a key player in all false flag events though, and they're usually the key to determining if something is real or not, because they always screw stuff up royally. and before you think differently - Faux news is liberal media too.
frankj1 Offline
#12 Posted: Wed, Apr 8 2015, 8:34 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
if the truth turned out to be 136, would you say "told ya so"?
Bitter Klinger Offline
#13 Posted: Wed, Apr 8 2015, 9:02 PM EST
Joined: 03-23-2013
Posts: 877
tailgater wrote:
BK,
It's fine to be cautious, but when somebody cries conspiracy within 24 hours of first seeing the news it reeks of biased interpretation.

It reminds me of those that thought the Boston Marathon bombing was a false flag.

Of course, history has proven those folks to be idiots, plain and simple.

Let your skepticism guide you to investigate further if you choose. And if real facts support your theory then run with it. Until then, a little respect should be given for the dead guy and his family.
What if it were someone you knew, and you read that he fell too gently or ran too slow?

This reeks of tragedy, and will hurt even the good cops before the story dies.




Mmmm, OK. But remember you never get a second chance to make a first impression, and my first impression tells me something is amiss here. Gut feeling. Like watching a "B" movie.

A mom lost her kid and showed very little, if any emotion at all. As a parent, that speaks volumes to me. When its real, the parents always go berserk - as would I, as would all of us. If I lost my kid like that the media would be unable to use anything I'd say to them for a good while. Just like Trayvon's parents did, just like Mike Browns' parents did. That was real - Just sayin'.

False Flag events are what they are - we're supposed to be respectful and mourn and shut up about it. While our rights get swift-boated down the river. I guess I would apologize for them feeling bad if that's the real case, but I won't apologize for pointing out gross oddities as they occur. And it's important to sort out quickly.

Maybe its real. I'll keep making my list and see what pans out. Just because you're seeing a video does not mean you're seeing what you think you are. I'll wait as long as the media does. I don't think that will be very long though.
frankj1 Offline
#14 Posted: Wed, Apr 8 2015, 9:11 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
I will admit it is unlike me to toss around stats cavalierly, so I started to question my memory of what I really heard.

A very quick search came up with the following, I have Evelyn Woodskied it, satisfied that at least the number 200 police shootings was not imagined, but I have not even read it carefully. I did see that very few ended up with charges filed (that "fact" may be even more remarkable) and the number ZERO for convictions was repeated in the article. Vegas wouldn't touch them odds.

The 200 shootings by police is since 2010. Understand that I'm one of those nuts that still has faith in most LEOs, believing that most signed on for the right reasons, not to be armed vigilantes. Over time it is easy to be changed by malcontents, but I have had 98.2% positive experiences with the authorities in my (mostly) crime free life. I'll assume that many incidents happened when confronted by armed bad guys, and some were horrendous mistakes. Cops are people, people are human, humans err.

One more thing BK...I don't have a clue what side, if any, this source falls on. I first heard this stuff on local Boston channel 5, WCVB TV, an ABC affiliate. So here is a second source. I'm going on record as saying I believe that since the year 2010, there have been over 200 police shootings investigated in South Carolina and there have been no convictions.

http://www.ibtimes.com/walter-scott-death-south-carolina-police-have-history-racial-profiling-shooting-black-1874008

maybe later I will try to find out who the heck IB Times is.
delta1 Offline
#15 Posted: Wed, Apr 8 2015, 9:12 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,810
Bitter Klinger wrote:
Theres some truth there.

But there is also the truth that crime statistics routinely show a disproportionately high level of crime amongst certain races. Both against themselves and others.

I disagree that the deeply flawed humans are the police and not the criminals though. And to say they despise the public they are trying to protect is insulting. For what theyre paid, and with their lives on the line, I'm amazed they take the jobs at all in the high crime areas. I damn sure wouldn't.



I was less than clear when I wrote that. I did not mean that every police officer is deeply flawed. Most that I know are honest, dedicated, hard-working and good people. All the same, I know that some are flawed in their beliefs and biases. Some have admitted to me that they began to view everyone in the neighborhood they patrolled as a potential criminal, believing that attitude was necessary for officer safety. Having worked with local PDs and the Sheriff, I've seen first-hand the level of distrust and disrespect that some initiating officers communicate, verbally and non-verbally, on first contact with a college age minority male.

The culture created within a department with many who have that mentality is typically "us vs them" which can be used to paint over the flaws, but ultimately feeds an adversarial relationship with the community. As obviously there are deeply flawed people, moreso, in any general population, the conflict when one confronts another can lead to disastrous consequences.
Bitter Klinger Offline
#16 Posted: Wed, Apr 8 2015, 9:12 PM EST
Joined: 03-23-2013
Posts: 877
frankj1 wrote:
if the truth turned out to be 136, would you say "told ya so"?


No.

Because I'm more concerned with whether this event is real, and I don't really know what the current crime stats are for North Charleston for the last 5 or so years is, the number really means nothing to me.

If your son or daughter were gunned down by a cop, and the video of that shooting were being played over and over on every single news media outlet, would you be capable of giving a news interview?

Talk about respect for the dead...think about that for a minute. It wasn't OK to show Bin Ladens death, but your kid taking 5 shots in the back is good and acceptable to see over and over? And for what purpose is this happening?
delta1 Offline
#17 Posted: Wed, Apr 8 2015, 9:24 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,810
Not being argumentative with you, Bitter Klinger, but the news media would've run the Bin Laden execution 24/7 if the military and administration had released it to them. They withheld the video for fear that showing it would incite more acts of terrorism by his followers and serve as a recruiting tool for Al Queda.
frankj1 Offline
#18 Posted: Wed, Apr 8 2015, 9:28 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
I questioned my memory of the 200, and came up with this:

http://www.ibtimes.com/walter-scott-death-south-carolina-police-have-history-racial-profiling-shooting-black-1874008

I did not even read it carefully, only until it stated what I had heard on local WCVB Channel 5, an ABC affiliate, 200 without a single conviction. So there are two sources for you. Vegas won't take that action.

I also have no idea which side, if any, IB Times falls politically, nor do I care.

I did read enough to say that over 200 police shootings in South Carolina have been investigated since 2010. Many have not led to charges filed, and this makes sense in a four year period involving guys who do respond to criminal activity for a living (I have had nothing but excellent dealings with the locals). Zero convictions makes less sense.
frankj1 Offline
#19 Posted: Wed, Apr 8 2015, 10:03 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
tailgater wrote:
BK,
It's fine to be cautious, but when somebody cries conspiracy within 24 hours of first seeing the news it reeks of biased interpretation.

It reminds me of those that thought the Boston Marathon bombing was a false flag.

Of course, history has proven those folks to be idiots, plain and simple.

Let your skepticism guide you to investigate further if you choose. And if real facts support your theory then run with it. Until then, a little respect should be given for the dead guy and his family.
What if it were someone you knew, and you read that he fell too gently or ran too slow?

This reeks of tragedy, and will hurt even the good cops before the story dies.



well said.
frankj1 Offline
#20 Posted: Wed, Apr 8 2015, 10:07 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
frankj1 wrote:
I questioned my memory of the 200, and came up with this:

http://www.ibtimes.com/walter-scott-death-south-carolina-police-have-history-racial-profiling-shooting-black-1874008

I did not even read it carefully, only until it stated what I had heard on local WCVB Channel 5, an ABC affiliate, 200 without a single conviction. So there are two sources for you. Vegas won't take that action.

I also have no idea which side, if any, IB Times falls politically, nor do I care.

I did read enough to say that over 200 police shootings in South Carolina have been investigated since 2010. Many have not led to charges filed, and this makes sense in a four year period involving guys who do respond to criminal activity for a living (I have had nothing but excellent dealings with the locals). Zero convictions makes less sense.

sorry for the reworded post. the first did not appear on my screen until just now...
Gene363 Offline
#21 Posted: Wed, Apr 8 2015, 11:21 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838

It's pretty bad. We had another officer shooting locally, the city of North Augusta just paid out more than $1.2 million to the family of a black man killed by a North Augusta Public Safety officer. In a slow car chase of a suspected drunk driver the officer left North Augusta City and surrounding Aiken county chasing the drunk driver into Edgefield county. Two Edgefield sheriff deputies responded and tried to take over the pursuit but the PS Officer didn't back off.
Quote:

Satterwhite, a black man, was shot by the white public safety officer as he sat in his vehicle parked in his driveway. Edgefield County officers who had joined Craven’s pursuit reported Craven fired several shots into the driver’s side door and said Satterwhite had tried to take his weapon.


No video, they are on order, but it pretty hard to believe the guy was grabbing for the officer's gun when the officer shot through the car door and the dead guy was locked inside. The Edgefield deputies had to break out the window to get to the guy. The dead guy had several DUIs, but had never been aggressive or resisted, he just would drive to his home without stopping for the police.

The charge is a serious felony, but not murder???

Quote:
Craven was arrested Tuesday on a charge of discharging a firearm into an occupied vehicle, a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison. Craven is free on a $20,000 bond.


http://chronicle.augusta.com/news/crime-courts/2015-04-08/former-north-augusta-officer-face-two-criminal-charges-fatal-shooting
Abrignac Offline
#22 Posted: Thu, Apr 9 2015, 6:47 AM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
This is going to be a chit storm that will fan the flames once again.

I suspect far more attention will be given to the video itself and very little attention to what precipitated the event.

from CNN wrote:
A man walking to work on Saturday recorded the video and provided it to the family. That man, Feidin Santana, spoke to NBC's Lester Holt.

He said there had been a struggle between the two men on the ground before he started recording, and that the officer was in control.


The subject is seen running from the officer. Something appears to be lying on the ground in that area. The subject takes off running and is shot at multiple times. First the officer approaches the subject, then he is seen apparently going from the subject laying on the ground, back to the location where the action on the video started. It appears that he picks something up off the ground, then walks to where the subject is lying and drops something on the ground.

Some difficult questions need to be asked and answered before a decision can be made.

Did the officer feel threatened? I think that if a subject has the ability to incapacitate an officer with his own Taser and the officer knows that person has that ability, then it's a slam dunk.

For those who have never been in a struggle with someone who may or may not attempt to take a duty weapon, I think it's very hard to second guess someone who has. Decisions are made in split seconds, while under tremendous stress and full of adrenalin.

That being said, when a suspect is running away, it's not a good idea to fire 8 shots at him unless he has a weapon that he can use to harm other people. But, maybe the officer didn't want to go a second round with him either. Sure this started with a "routine traffic stop." What most people don't realize it that by and large the majority of law enforcement officers that are killed in the line of duty die as a result of a "routine stop" going terribly bad.

I've been through 2 P.O.S.T academies. One was about 240 total hours, the other around 320. In both of them we were shown numerous videos of "routine stops" going very badly. Officers are conditioned to have a raised sense of awareness that a "routine stop" can turn deadly very quickly.

At the end of the day, this was preventable. The deceased was pulled over for a broken tail light. By driving a vehicle on a public street, one is tacitly agreeing to obey the laws governing said action. How in the HELL did this escalate from that to a struggle on the ground? Hopefully, there is some dash cam video.I suspect we will never really know the complete chain of events.



BK, do you really believe this is some sort of hoax and unreal?
Gene363 Offline
#23 Posted: Thu, Apr 9 2015, 11:15 AM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838
Abrignac wrote:
This is going to be a chit storm that will fan the flames once again.

I suspect far more attention will be given to the video itself and very little attention to what precipitated the event.



The subject is seen running from the officer. Something appears to be lying on the ground in that area. The subject takes off running and is shot at multiple times. First the officer approaches the subject, then he is seen apparently going from the subject laying on the ground, back to the location where the action on the video started. It appears that he picks something up off the ground, then walks to where the subject is lying and drops something on the ground.

Some difficult questions need to be asked and answered before a decision can be made.

Did the officer feel threatened? I think that if a subject has the ability to incapacitate an officer with his own Taser and the officer knows that person has that ability, then it's a slam dunk.

For those who have never been in a struggle with someone who may or may not attempt to take a duty weapon, I think it's very hard to second guess someone who has. Decisions are made in split seconds, while under tremendous stress and full of adrenalin.

That being said, when a suspect is running away, it's not a good idea to fire 8 shots at him unless he has a weapon that he can use to harm other people. But, maybe the officer didn't want to go a second round with him either. Sure this started with a "routine traffic stop." What most people don't realize it that by and large the majority of law enforcement officers that are killed in the line of duty die as a result of a "routine stop" going terribly bad.

I've been through 2 P.O.S.T academies. One was about 240 total hours, the other around 320. In both of them we were shown numerous videos of "routine stops" going very badly. Officers are conditioned to have a raised sense of awareness that a "routine stop" can turn deadly very quickly.

At the end of the day, this was preventable. The deceased was pulled over for a broken tail light. By driving a vehicle on a public street, one is tacitly agreeing to obey the laws governing said action. How in the HELL did this escalate from that to a struggle on the ground? Hopefully, there is some dash cam video.I suspect we will never really know the complete chain of events.



BK, do you really believe this is some sort of hoax and unreal?


Our local paper, The Augusta Chronicle, said the victim probably ran because he had child support problems/warrants.
dstieger Offline
#24 Posted: Thu, Apr 9 2015, 12:07 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Watched Lester Holt's report last night, but have not read or heard another word about it yet except what's in this thread. The whole report on the news was rather surreal and I don't think I absorbed everything. Wasn't there a suggestion that the officer claimed the deceased had taken the taser away? And didn't the video look as though the officer had the taser the whole time, but dropped it next to the victim after he got up to the body on the ground? I think that it is such a jarring video that it was impossible to take in the entire report in one viewing. I will find it and re-watch. It was pretty clear that a (likely?) non-violent offender, threatening no person or property at the time, was shot in the back. Maybe I watch too much TV, but I thought cops chase and tackle suspects, not shoot them in the back as they run away?
Abrignac Offline
#25 Posted: Thu, Apr 9 2015, 4:46 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
dstieger wrote:
Watched Lester Holt's report last night, but have not read or heard another word about it yet except what's in this thread. The whole report on the news was rather surreal and I don't think I absorbed everything. Wasn't there a suggestion that the officer claimed the deceased had taken the taser away? And didn't the video look as though the officer had the taser the whole time, but dropped it next to the victim after he got up to the body on the ground?


That's the part that bothers me most, perhaps. I seem to recall the officer walking back to the scene of the initial struggle, bend over and pick something up off the ground. Then he walks back to where the offender is lying on the ground and appears to drop something.

dstieger wrote:
I think that it is such a jarring video that it was impossible to take in the entire report in one viewing. I will find it and re-watch. It was pretty clear that a (likely?) non-violent offender, threatening no person or property at the time, was shot in the back. Maybe I watch too much TV, but I thought cops chase and tackle suspects, not shoot them in the back as they run away?


You watch way too much TV. To do so only serves one purpose and that is to put an officer in a hand to hand combat situation with only a 50:50 shot at winning. That is not taught in P.O.S.T. Academies.

The dash cam footage has been released.

http://www.wafb.com/story/28761385/sled-releases-dash-cam-footage-from-michael-slagers-patrol-car-before-fatal-shooting-of-walter-scott

It starts with the officer pulling the offender over in an auto parts parking lot. After a minute or so, the offender breaks and runs. Makes no sense. The officer has his license. Even if he can't catch you. he knows who you are. You will eventually be caught. Not all the time, but plenty of time when a suspect breaks and runs he is trying to get rid of illegal drugs.
DrafterX Offline
#26 Posted: Thu, Apr 9 2015, 4:51 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
I heard he had just stole some cigars... Mellow
jackconrad Offline
#27 Posted: Thu, Apr 9 2015, 5:39 PM EST
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
Reminded me of the Running man Movie.. This was a clear over reaction and will probably end in In Voluntary Manslaughter as a Conviction . Even Sean Hannity was all over this cop.. I also see this guy had 10 convictions and probably was thinking he would serve jail time . I think the White Conservative Media looks at this as an opportunity to prove they are not prejudiced by condemning this and i can't blame them . The thing was terrible even if the guy was not the best of Society ,(although i really don't have proof except what i heard and read),. I will say two things though how friggin stupid could a Cop be to shoot someone on a traffic stop not to mention considering the current climate . Number 2 is why is it OK for the Media to act as judge and jury in mere minutes ?
Speyside Offline
#28 Posted: Thu, Apr 9 2015, 7:53 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I am not sure how the court will be able to empanel an unbiased jury. I doubt there are many people who have not seen this horrific video. I know I could not be impartial after seeing the video, but the man deserves a fair trial.
jetblasted Offline
#29 Posted: Thu, Apr 9 2015, 8:38 PM EST
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
So, the moral of the story is . . . Don't Run from the Cops.
frankj1 Offline
#30 Posted: Thu, Apr 9 2015, 9:11 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
did anyone else think they saw a passenger in the car?
Gene363 Offline
#31 Posted: Fri, Apr 10 2015, 12:06 AM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838
frankj1 wrote:
did anyone else think they saw a passenger in the car?


Yup, most likely. Either that or there was a helium balloon bobbing around inside the car or something moving on the lot in front of the car.

What a mess, two families had a bomb go off, clearly, there are no winners in this story.
DrafterX Offline
#32 Posted: Fri, Apr 10 2015, 6:56 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
apparently Scott's family told Sharpton to stay the f^ck away after he contacted them... prolly hurt his feeling... Mellow
dstieger Offline
#33 Posted: Fri, Apr 10 2015, 8:58 AM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
jackconrad wrote:
not to mention considering the current climate .



This is the part that continues to rattle around in my head. Where the f has this cop been for the last nine months? I don't care how hot it was in the heat of that moment; no sane/rational police officer would take that shot
DrafterX Offline
#34 Posted: Fri, Apr 10 2015, 9:07 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
he acted stupidly... Mellow
Gene363 Offline
#35 Posted: Fri, Apr 10 2015, 11:11 AM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838
dstieger wrote:
This is the part that continues to rattle around in my head. Where the f has this cop been for the last nine months? I don't care how hot it was in the heat of that moment; no sane/rational police officer would take that shot


Reading too many Warrior Cop magazines.
Abrignac Offline
#36 Posted: Fri, Apr 10 2015, 11:33 AM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
Speyside wrote:
I am not sure how the court will be able to empanel an unbiased jury. I doubt there are many people who have not seen this horrific video. I know I could not be impartial after seeing the video, but the man deserves a fair trial.



This will never go to trial. Expect a plea deal down the road.
Bitter Klinger Offline
#37 Posted: Fri, Apr 10 2015, 11:56 AM EST
Joined: 03-23-2013
Posts: 877
Abrignac wrote:
This is going to be a chit storm that will fan the flames once again.

I suspect far more attention will be given to the video itself and very little attention to what precipitated the event.



The subject is seen running from the officer. Something appears to be lying on the ground in that area. The subject takes off running and is shot at multiple times. First the officer approaches the subject, then he is seen apparently going from the subject laying on the ground, back to the location where the action on the video started. It appears that he picks something up off the ground, then walks to where the subject is lying and drops something on the ground.

Some difficult questions need to be asked and answered before a decision can be made.

Did the officer feel threatened? I think that if a subject has the ability to incapacitate an officer with his own Taser and the officer knows that person has that ability, then it's a slam dunk.

For those who have never been in a struggle with someone who may or may not attempt to take a duty weapon, I think it's very hard to second guess someone who has. Decisions are made in split seconds, while under tremendous stress and full of adrenalin.

That being said, when a suspect is running away, it's not a good idea to fire 8 shots at him unless he has a weapon that he can use to harm other people. But, maybe the officer didn't want to go a second round with him either. Sure this started with a "routine traffic stop." What most people don't realize it that by and large the majority of law enforcement officers that are killed in the line of duty die as a result of a "routine stop" going terribly bad.

I've been through 2 P.O.S.T academies. One was about 240 total hours, the other around 320. In both of them we were shown numerous videos of "routine stops" going very badly. Officers are conditioned to have a raised sense of awareness that a "routine stop" can turn deadly very quickly.

At the end of the day, this was preventable. The deceased was pulled over for a broken tail light. By driving a vehicle on a public street, one is tacitly agreeing to obey the laws governing said action. How in the HELL did this escalate from that to a struggle on the ground? Hopefully, there is some dash cam video.I suspect we will never really know the complete chain of events.



BK, do you really believe this is some sort of hoax and unreal?



I'm not Rickmaven, so whats the bold supposed to imply? That I dare to suggest it? Or something else?

I still stand by what I wrote, and yes I do believe there is strong potential for this event to be staged for several reasons.
It was and still is my gut feeling. I have already found some media interviews that are being scrubbed and replaced with different ones. I'm documenting them, and I recorded a good bit of the news as the event was first reported, so I have a baseline report to return to.

I also went online and started looking to see if I was the only person feeling this way - its not too many, but there are some, and interestingly to me anyway, they mentioned some of the same things that had me raising an eyebrow - and also some other things I didn't even notice.

In the meantime the liberal media has shifted their focus - not surprisingly - calling for those body cameras on ALL LEO's.

It is too incredulous to be real to me. Here's another thing that stood out to me - the cop is wearing short sleeves. Anyone that has lived in the "lowcountry" as its called there will tell you that the humidity there is brutal in spring. Why is the "victim" wearing a long sleeved sweatshirt? Maybe for protection from an anticipated fall that day? And its all fluffy-like (technical term) like maybe he was wearing something under it. Food for thought.
frankj1 Offline
#38 Posted: Fri, Apr 10 2015, 12:30 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
it happened. show a morsel of respect to a dead man and his family.
Bitter Klinger Offline
#39 Posted: Fri, Apr 10 2015, 12:49 PM EST
Joined: 03-23-2013
Posts: 877

Another oddity, not sure it really factors in at all, but both the cop and the "victim" were former Coast Guardsmen. No joke.
Bitter Klinger Offline
#40 Posted: Fri, Apr 10 2015, 12:50 PM EST
Joined: 03-23-2013
Posts: 877
frankj1 wrote:
it happened. show a morsel of respect to a dead man and his family.


We'll see Frank. Im not convinced it did though.
teedubbya Offline
#41 Posted: Fri, Apr 10 2015, 1:29 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Someone has s new tin foil hat. Koo koo koo koo

I don't know how I'd react if my son was shot down because it's never happened to me. I know when my brother died the initial shock made for a sort of bizzar time and the following stages of grief manifested very different in each if my parents as well as my sister and I. I'm pretty sure my brother really died and there was no false flag even though my parents probably didn't respond correctly.

Simply silly.
Bitter Klinger Offline
#42 Posted: Fri, Apr 10 2015, 2:22 PM EST
Joined: 03-23-2013
Posts: 877
teedubbya wrote:
Someone has s new tin foil hat. Koo koo koo koo

I don't know how I'd react if my son was shot down because it's never happened to me. I know when my brother died the initial shock made for a sort of bizzar time and the following stages of grief manifested very different in each if my parents as well as my sister and I. I'm pretty sure my brother really died and there was no false flag even though my parents probably didn't respond correctly.

Simply silly.



TW - why did building 7 fall - at the speed of free-fall - and after it was announced that it had fallen already by a female reporter standing in front of an office window clearly showing the building standing in the background?

An office furniture fire was blamed, and now its taboo for the media to discuss it.

Where you at on that one?
Bitter Klinger Offline
#43 Posted: Fri, Apr 10 2015, 2:24 PM EST
Joined: 03-23-2013
Posts: 877
teedubbya wrote:
Someone has s new tin foil hat. Koo koo koo koo

I don't know how I'd react if my son was shot down because it's never happened to me. I know when my brother died the initial shock made for a sort of bizzar time and the following stages of grief manifested very different in each if my parents as well as my sister and I. I'm pretty sure my brother really died and there was no false flag even though my parents probably didn't respond correctly.

Simply silly.


Sorry about your brother. I understand your point about how grief works, but the grief is but one item in a list.
dstieger Offline
#44 Posted: Fri, Apr 10 2015, 2:40 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Bldg 7? What's your take on that? The 9/11 planes were a cover-up so the CIA could level Manhattan? I've never even heard there was a conspiracy, but a couple minutes of googling took me to some very humorous places. Forgive me, BK, if I no longer afford you any credibility....I'm sorry for your loss, as well.
sd72 Offline
#45 Posted: Fri, Apr 10 2015, 2:43 PM EST
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
The whole thing was staged at the same studio where they filmed the moon landing, and edited by those who made the shadows move in the grassy knoll.

Google it.
banderl Offline
#46 Posted: Fri, Apr 10 2015, 3:06 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
sd72 wrote:
The whole thing was staged at the same studio where they filmed the moon landing, and edited by those who made the shadows move in the grassy knoll.

Google it.



God damn that Muslim loving left wing media!!!!!!!!!!!!
Abrignac Offline
#47 Posted: Fri, Apr 10 2015, 3:23 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
Bitter Klinger wrote:
I'm not Rickmaven, so whats the bold supposed to imply? That I dare to suggest it? Or something else?


Never thought you were. But, if given only one guess as to who could conjure up such conspiracy theories I'd have to consider Rick as he can be pretty clever when need be.

Which leads me to wonder what your fog handle is? Rick has been inactive for quite sometime. But, your familiarity with him suggests you've been here longer than noted on your join date.



Bitter Klinger wrote:
I still stand by what I wrote, and yes I do believe there is strong potential for this event to be staged for several reasons.

It was and still is my gut feeling. I have already found some media interviews that are being scrubbed and replaced with different ones. I'm documenting them, and I recorded a good bit of the news as the event was first reported, so I have a baseline report to return to.




Scrubbed and/or replaced media interviews? Care to elaborate?

Baseline? So, am I correct to assume you knew from the moment the first video hit the web this was all a hoax? You also knew that interviews would be scrubbed so you had the foresight to preserve this historic information for all of humanity?



Bitter Klinger wrote:
I also went online and started looking to see if I was the only person feeling this way - its not too many, but there are some, and interestingly to me anyway, they mentioned some of the same things that had me raising an eyebrow - and also some other things I didn't even notice.


Elaborate, what are some of the things you didn't notice at first?



Bitter Klinger wrote:
In the meantime the liberal media has shifted their focus - not surprisingly - calling for those body cameras on ALL LEO's.


Really, it seems this has been in focus for quite some time. Some agencies down here have been issuing body cams for more than a year.



Bitter Klinger wrote:
It is too incredulous to be real to me. Here's another thing that stood out to me - the cop is wearing short sleeves. Anyone that has lived in the "lowcountry" as its called there will tell you that the humidity there is brutal in spring. Why is the "victim" wearing a long sleeved sweatshirt? Maybe for protection from an anticipated fall that day? And its all fluffy-like (technical term) like maybe he was wearing something under it. Food for thought.


As far as the offender wearing long sleeved sweatshirt, I live in south Louisiana, I'm a LEO, it's 70 degrees here at the moment and in the last 5 minutes I have seen at least 5 people wearing sweatshirts. I on the other hand am wearing a short sleeved shirt and I'm quite warm. The body armor I'm wearing has superior insulating power.

What do you mean by fluffy-like?

What do you think he was wearing underneath it?
DrafterX Offline
#48 Posted: Fri, Apr 10 2015, 3:25 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Abrignac wrote:


What do you think he was wearing underneath it?



freak... Mellow
Bitter Klinger Offline
#49 Posted: Fri, Apr 10 2015, 3:34 PM EST
Joined: 03-23-2013
Posts: 877
dstieger wrote:
Bldg 7? What's your take on that? The 9/11 planes were a cover-up so the CIA could level Manhattan? I've never even heard there was a conspiracy, but a couple minutes of googling took me to some very humorous places. Forgive me, BK, if I no longer afford you any credibility....I'm sorry for your loss, as well.


I asked the question to weed out the truly clueless. Thanks for falling into line.

If you believe that building 7 fell because of an office fire you have A) not bothered to devote more than a google search to the subject, which given the gravity of the event is shameful B) Sold yourself and your rights down the river through apathy, ignorance or blind acceptance of whatever the liberal media has force-fed you, or C) you agree with and are actively choosing to go along with the agenda that caused it to begin with.

There is a wealth of information available to you - I'm not going to spoon feed it to you. Do your own homework. Or be stupid American sheeple and go watch TV - they'll tell you what to think.

I don't know for sure what TW will say, but I have feeling what his answer will be.

Do you guys believe everything you see portrayed on television for what its being billed as? Can you be this truly gullible?
And if your answer is no, then tell me what events, if any, do you believe were not what they were billed as.

Here, since I think I get your crowd a little bit, I'll start the list for you:

1. No weapons of mass destruction. OK, go...
2.
3.
4.

Newsflash, many conspiracies are not just theories. Plenty of evidence exists.
teedubbya Offline
#50 Posted: Fri, Apr 10 2015, 3:52 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I find it completely amusing that you throw out a conspiracy theory to try to weed out who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't know what they about.

But then again I love irony.
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