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Last post 8 years ago by MACS. 21 replies replies.
Supreme Court Upholds Obamacare Subsidies
Brewha Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
And I’m McLovin’ it.

The Republicans continue the spin out because the U.S. now has national health care like the rest of the civilized world. What a bunch of corporate mouthpieces. But they will waste even more of your time and money fighting the law that was mandated by the voters.

They said it would destroy the United States and our way of life. Well we are still here, people are getting better care, and the insurance companies’ profiteering is slowed for the moment. Yeah, the end is near.

The Death Panel lie was a good one – had lot of folks believing that crap. Come on conservatives! Pull together with FoxNews and spin the next warning of impending doom!
victor809 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Brewha wrote:
And I’m McLovin’ it.

The Republicans continue the spin out because the U.S. now has national health care like the rest of the civilized world. What a bunch of corporate mouthpieces. But they will waste even more of your time and money fighting the law that was mandated by the voters.

They said it would destroy the United States and our way of life. Well we are still here, people are getting better care, and the insurance companies’ profiteering is slowed for the moment. Yeah, the end is near.

The Death Panel lie was a good one – had lot of folks believing that crap. Come on conservatives! Pull together with FoxNews and spin the next warning of impending doom!



Is it possible to both agree and disagree with you?

I mean, I totally agree that the republican hyperbole and whining was ridiculous... and their constant efforts to repeal it have been a huge waste of taxpayer time and money (and trust me, not a single one of them thought they would succeed. Ever. It was completely posturing for their base... )

Yep... we're still here. And yes, certain groups are definitely getting better care. A friend of mine has essentially had his life saved by the california version of ACA.

But the insurance companies are totally still profiteering. and the system is not one I'm a big fan of. In fact, I still maintain that this will have a disastrous impact on medicine and drug innovation in 50 years. But that's not going to have too big an impact on me, so I don't care that much.

Either way, the system once in place cannot be removed without a significant, well thought out plan in place without creating huge amounts of loss.
delta1 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,810
Maybe there are two starting points:

1) Eliminate "for profit" healthcare...If the goal is maximizing profits, quality and personalized healthcare becomes a non-issue.

2) " Insurance" A huge, and arguably unnecessary, portion of money spent in the health insurance industry is spent on grossly inflated salary packages for upper management, dividends to a few already wealthy shareholders, advertising/marketing, and redundant data collection and storage among all the "competing" healthcare insurance providers. A single healthcare pool may be the way to go.
danmdevries Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 02-11-2014
Posts: 17,426
I still want to know where the affordable part of the ACA comes in?
MACS Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
I've got coverage for the rest of my life, although I am the last priority as a retiree (active duty, active dependents, reservists... then if we have enough time for you... retirees). I'm not complaining, though.

What has me worried is the cost. Medical costs are already ridiculous. Where are they getting the money from to fund giving everyone free health care?

Taxes. We're already taxed too much, IMO, and we're what? 17 TRILLION in debt? And for you Obammy lovers... that's triple what it was under Bush. Not saying Bush was good... just saying you didn't get the CHANGE you were HOPING for.

Just about every country with nationalized health care taxes their people at a 45% rate or more... including us, now, for the top earners.

You can't punish people that make a lot of money by taking half of it and giving it to others. It isn't right, and it isn't fair.

Our government should not be taking care of us to this extent. Build solid infrastructure, make necessary legislations, and provide for the nation's security.

People should be fending for themselves, not dependent on the gov't for ANYTHING. Because when that happens... they got you by the short hairs. If they're big enough to give you what you need... they can take it all away, too, and that's how they get your vote. By paying for it with tax dollars... that don't f***ing belong to them.

And yes, I understand the irony of me being "dependent" on the gov't for my pension and my healthcare, but at least I earned it through military service. Now I pay into my pension (upwards of $600 a month) and put money into a tax deferred plan on my own (upwards of $1,000 a month).

The majority of the people taking from the system now have never contributed to the system.

Tax corporations, you say? We've done that... and they moved their sh*t overseas to China, and India, etc... So now we have fewer jobs... keep it up and we'll have NO jobs, save for gubmint ones, NO tax base and NO money.

Careful what you wish for.
MACS Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
danmdevries wrote:
I still want to know where the affordable part of the ACA comes in?


Only if you're taking government handouts, Dan. Quit your job, become a POS bum living on the street, drunk all day, and then it'll be free.
Brewha Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
MACS wrote:
I've got coverage for the rest of my life, although I am the last priority as a retiree (active duty, active dependents, reservists... then if we have enough time for you... retirees). I'm not complaining, though.

What has me worried is the cost. Medical costs are already ridiculous. Where are they getting the money from to fund giving everyone free health care?

Taxes. We're already taxed too much, IMO, and we're what? 17 TRILLION in debt? And for you Obammy lovers... that's triple what it was under Bush. Not saying Bush was good... just saying you didn't get the CHANGE you were HOPING for.

Just about every country with nationalized health care taxes their people at a 45% rate or more... including us, now, for the top earners.

You can't punish people that make a lot of money by taking half of it and giving it to others. It isn't right, and it isn't fair.

Our government should not be taking care of us to this extent. Build solid infrastructure, make necessary legislations, and provide for the nation's security.

People should be fending for themselves, not dependent on the gov't for ANYTHING. Because when that happens... they got you by the short hairs. If they're big enough to give you what you need... they can take it all away, too, and that's how they get your vote. By paying for it with tax dollars... that don't f***ing belong to them.

And yes, I understand the irony of me being "dependent" on the gov't for my pension and my healthcare, but at least I earned it through military service. Now I pay into my pension (upwards of $600 a month) and put money into a tax deferred plan on my own (upwards of $1,000 a month).

The majority of the people taking from the system now have never contributed to the system.

Tax corporations, you say? We've done that... and they moved their sh*t overseas to China, and India, etc... So now we have fewer jobs... keep it up and we'll have NO jobs, save for gubmint ones, NO tax base and NO money.

Careful what you wish for.

So one of the goals of Obamacare is to CONTROL health care costs. And the Republicans really hate that one.

As to the money –
Tax companies that move labor overseas and want to do business here. That’s what other countries do.
Stop corporate welfare
Stop the tax cuts for the rich (Oh No!)
Stop wasting billions on policing the world – we spend 9 times as much as the next biggest spender, I think we can step it down a little. Hell Cheney has already stolen a mint for his special friends.
ZRX1200 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
Corporate mouth piece? Who do you think wrote the damn thing?

Mandated by voters? It was done behind closed doors against the will of the majority.

It will fail. It was designed to fail.

Single payor or bust.....

If it cannot function without subsidies it isn't working.

Gene363 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,836
Brewha wrote:
So one of the goals of Obamacare is to CONTROL health care costs. And the Republicans really hate that one.

As to the money –
Tax companies that move labor overseas and want to do business here. That’s what other countries do.
Stop corporate welfare
Stop the tax cuts for the rich (Oh No!)
Stop wasting billions on policing the world – we spend 9 times as much as the next biggest spender, I think we can step it down a little. Hell Cheney has already stolen a mint for his special friends.


Lowering costs was just smoke to get the bill passed, ACA only adds to the cost of coverage. As for republicans or democrats, piff, the parliament of whores got paid to pass a bill that required citizens to become customers of large insurance companies. The republican controlled congress will do nothing to change the situation except make speeches and ask for contributions to fight the evil ACA. The democrats will do the same thing, but tell folks the ACA is threatened by those evil republicans. As usual, the working man tax payers gets screwed.

I agree about not policing the world, more like intimidating. What Halliburton gets is chump change compared to makers of military hardware. BTW, Cheney just worked for them, do you know when LBJ (R) was escalating the Vietnam war Halliburton, controlled by Mrs. LBJ aka Ladybird, was building infrastructure all over Vietnam.
MACS Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
Brewha wrote:
So one of the goals of Obamacare is to CONTROL health care costs. And the Republicans really hate that one.

As to the money –
Tax companies that move labor overseas and want to do business here. That’s what other countries do.
Stop corporate welfare
Stop the tax cuts for the rich (Oh No!)
Stop wasting billions on policing the world – we spend 9 times as much as the next biggest spender, I think we can step it down a little. Hell Cheney has already stolen a mint for his special friends.


Control health care costs? That ain't working.
Companies are already being taxed to death, which is why they moved in the first place.
I believe we should all pay the same rate in taxes. We all benefit from the same infrastructure. Flat tax.
I agree with you here... we should not be the world police, nor should we be giving money to other countries or bombing them and helping them rebuild... f***'em.
Brewha Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
ZRX1200 wrote:
Corporate mouth piece? Who do you think wrote the damn thing?

Mandated by voters? It was done behind closed doors against the will of the majority.

It will fail. It was designed to fail.

Single payor or bust.....

If it cannot function without subsidies it isn't working.


Z, Obama ran on healthcare reform and won. That's what ya call political capital. Ergo, it is what the people wanted.

And Obamacare will evolve over time. Just like Medicare.

And as far as subsidies go, it works for Monsanto.
Hey, that rhymes.....
Brewha Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
Gene363 wrote:
Lowering costs was just smoke to get the bill passed, ACA only adds to the cost of coverage. As for republicans or democrats, piff, the parliament of whores got paid to pass a bill that required citizens to become customers of large insurance companies. The republican controlled congress will do nothing to change the situation except make speeches and ask for contributions to fight the evil ACA. The democrats will do the same thing, but tell folks the ACA is threatened by those evil republicans. As usual, the working man tax payers gets screwed.

I agree about not policing the world, more like intimidating. What Halliburton gets is chump change compared to makers of military hardware. BTW, Cheney just worked for them, do you know when LBJ (R) was escalating the Vietnam war Halliburton, controlled by Mrs. LBJ aka Ladybird, was building infrastructure all over Vietnam.

Yes, I think Eisenhower warned us about the military industrial complex. Looks like he was spot on.
Brewha Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
MACS wrote:
Control health care costs? That ain't working.
Companies are already being taxed to death, which is why they moved in the first place.
I believe we should all pay the same rate in taxes. We all benefit from the same infrastructure. Flat tax.
I agree with you here... we should not be the world police, nor should we be giving money to other countries or bombing them and helping them rebuild... f***'em.

Companies are being taxed to death?

When was the last time your lobbyist got tax law passed? Anyone offer to not tax your home for five years if you build it in their city? Ever go bankrupt and have the government bail you out?

Look at the market. Businesses are booming. Especially the ultra large ones.
ZRX1200 Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
Then why was it passed the way it was since it was so popular?

A presidential nod doesn't equal a country all united around a gigantic public action like this. Bush (43) introduced Medicare part D WITH DEMOCRATS helping cosponsor it. Mirror that with ACA........

You sprinkle fairy dust on this turd but at the end of the day it won't shine or smell good.
delta1 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,810
ZRX1200 wrote:
Corporate mouth piece? Who do you think wrote the damn thing?

Mandated by voters? It was done behind closed doors against the will of the majority.

It will fail. It was designed to fail.

Single payor or bust.....

If it cannot function without subsidies it isn't working.



Z...you OK?
Brewha Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
ZRX1200 wrote:
Then why was it passed the way it was since it was so popular?

A presidential nod doesn't equal a country all united around a gigantic public action like this. Bush (43) introduced Medicare part D WITH DEMOCRATS helping cosponsor it. Mirror that with ACA........

You sprinkle fairy dust on this turd but at the end of the day it won't shine or smell good.

Oh, it was in no way popular with everyone. Hotly debated. Still is. But I feel the majority spoke with the election. And Government skulduggery to get a law passed is par for the course.

Doubtless, there could be better ways. And in time I hope we find them. But faced with the alternative of doing nothing, I'll go with it.
ZRX1200 Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
You ok of the Patriot Act being passed in that manner?

You being ok with what happened is fine, but saying it's part for the course is intellectually dishonest. Blame R's all you want but legislation of this magnitude has never been done with zero bipartisan support.
delta1 Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,810
Yup...incremental change...much better than the system allowing healthcare insurance providers to cherry-pick their insured, deny coverage to those with any pre-existing conditions, challenge recommended health care procedures, deny claims, sell worthless policies, etc....

Sure do like the new ACA death panels!

Ultimately, we'll get to single payer...
ZRX1200 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
Incremental change is the tool of those with unpopular ideas. The government is breaking legs and offering wheelchairs...
delta1 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,810
Nah, it's how things work in a democratic society where a vocal minority has the power, granted by the Founders, to bring the economy to a halt...
MACS Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
Brewha wrote:
Companies are being taxed to death?

When was the last time your lobbyist got tax law passed? Anyone offer to not tax your home for five years if you build it in their city? Ever go bankrupt and have the government bail you out?

Look at the market. Businesses are booming. Especially the ultra large ones.


I was AGAINST the bailout... xibbumbero says Obama saved the auto industry with the bailout. Once again, I say f***'em. The banks and the politicians (both sides) are in bed. It shouldn't be the lobbyists controlling sh*t. It shouldn't be the politicians, either... because they're being paid by the lobbyists.

Please explain to me WHY a guy who makes more than $250,000 should be taxed at a higher RATE than a guy making $50,000? Maybe that guy is smart, went to medical school, or he's an engineer from MIT, or maybe the guy grew up dirt poor and just has a good business sense and a HS diploma...

Why should wealthy people be taxed at a higher RATE. Given a 10% tax, the guy making 50k is paying 5k and the guy making 250k is paying 25k. He's already paying 5 times as much because he makes more. Why is he being punished for being smart or lucky?

They are both receiving the same screw job from the gov't... use the same roads, kids maybe go to the same public school system... same sewer and garbage pickup.

How is that fair?

It's not. But the politicians take from the rich/middle class, and use that money to buy the votes of the poor.
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