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Why are so many people upset?
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Speyside Offline
#1 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 11:45 AM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
That the Supreme Court upheld same sex marriage? Since this is a civil marriage no one is being forced to perform religious services. To me this is no big deal. I am curious and thought to get input from people this ruling does bother.
tamapatom Offline
#2 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 12:00 PM EST
Joined: 03-19-2015
Posts: 7,381
Speyside wrote:
That the Supreme Court upheld same sex marriage? Since this is a civil marriage no one is being forced to perform religious services. To me this is no big deal. I am curious and thought to get input from people this ruling does bother.
Some people fear this is an intrusion.
DrafterX Offline
#3 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 12:08 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
God is outraged.... Mellow
banderl Offline
#4 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 12:32 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
tamapatom wrote:
Some people fear this is an intrusion.



Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Mattie B Offline
#5 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 1:00 PM EST
Joined: 12-12-2005
Posts: 6,350
I don't know that I was upset with decision as much as the process.

The Supreme Court shouldn't be making laws.


For those that are angry, read James 1:20. That's what our pastor spoke on this past Sunday. Kinda puts things in perspective.
surfish1961 Offline
#6 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 1:11 PM EST
Joined: 01-27-2008
Posts: 7,346
Just a little SCOTUS history for y'all.

http://prntscr.com/7msfcr
TMCTLT Offline
#7 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 1:20 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
surfish1961 wrote:
Just a little SCOTUS history for y'all.

http://prntscr.com/7msfcr




Well they have had a great leader in their lunacy, anyone remember BHO's anti gay stance BEFORE he won the election?


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/may/11/barack-obama/president-barack-obamas-shift-gay-marriage/
victor809 Offline
#8 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 1:26 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
TMCTLT wrote:
Well they have had a great leader in their lunacy, anyone remember BHO's anti gay stance BEFORE he won the election?


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/may/11/barack-obama/president-barack-obamas-shift-gay-marriage/


What? It's not okay to change your mind on stuff now?

It's a strange world you live in...
DrafterX Offline
#9 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 1:45 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
His college buddies threatened to out him if he didn't.... Mellow
tailgater Offline
#10 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 2:01 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Victor,
Politicians routinely change their positions, but it should be noteworthy when the issue is considered a "fundamental right".
DrafterX Offline
#11 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 2:11 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
I heard it was a choice... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#12 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 2:16 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
Victor,
Politicians routinely change their positions, but it should be noteworthy when the issue is considered a "fundamental right".



I agree it should be noteworthy. I don't agree it should be considered "lunacy".

He had an opinion when he was elected. Over the course of 6 years, probably 6 years of watching things play out on the national stage, he changed his opinion regarding the "fundamental right" of gays.

I find the idea that someone will not change their mind ever (which seems to be what a lot of people here would prefer) more disturbing than even a politician changing their mind in a direction I might not like.
wheelrite Offline
#13 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 2:29 PM EST
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
yawn,,,,

mary whom ever you want...


wheel,,
tailgater Offline
#14 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 3:23 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Vic,
If people didn't change their mind then there would be no discussion. I get that.
But changing a FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT is different. If it's truly FUNDAMENTAL now, why wasn't it 6 years ago?

Or more to the point, why won't BHO be asked?
delta1 Offline
#15 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 3:24 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,797
wheelrite wrote:
yawn,,,,

mary whom ever you want...


wheel,,





OK, Nurse Terrie...
dstieger Offline
#16 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 3:34 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I'd still like for someone to explain why this is an issue for the SC, the Congress, the County Clerk, the States or any other governmental body.

Best I can reckon, if it weren't for marriage tax deductions and 'dependent' social security, we coulda (shoulda) left marriage to the churches where it belongs. Bugs me to think that government thought they ought to legislate some sort of 'family value/marriage' laws that give money to people for getting married and having kids. I say get government out of the marriage question/definition business altogether.
teedubbya Offline
#17 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 3:39 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I used to be homophobic now I'm not. I actually like drafter. Not in that way but I like him.

My views on the subject have changed dramatically over the years. I was ignorant before. Now I'm still ignorant but a little less so in this subject.
jetblasted Offline
#18 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 4:32 PM EST
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
Roberts & Scalia seem to think that this will open the door to plural marriage. After this ruling, there's no reason not to rule in favor of plural marriage.

And, the Godless Left will be specifically targeting Christian Churches & Businesses.
DrafterX Offline
#19 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 4:47 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4328330392001/police-blast-lgbt-protester-with-water-cannon/?intcmp=watchnow#sp=show-clips

Think
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#20 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 4:57 PM EST
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
teedubbya wrote:
I used to be homophobic now I'm not. I actually like drafter. Not in that way but I like him.

My views on the subject have changed dramatically over the years. I was ignorant before. Now I'm still ignorant but a little less so in this subject.


That's thuper.
frankj1 Offline
#21 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 5:22 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
jetblasted wrote:
Roberts & Scalia seem to think that this will open the door to plural marriage. After this ruling, there's no reason not to rule in favor of plural marriage.

And, the Godless Left will be specifically targeting Christian Churches & Businesses.


are you saying the Morally Superior Right has purged themselves of atheists? No wonder they own morality...
jetblasted Offline
#22 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 6:30 PM EST
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
Not saying that at all, Frank.
frankj1 Offline
#23 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 6:49 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
jetblasted wrote:
Not saying that at all, Frank.

Ah, you walked into it D, sorry-

I've been ranting cross thread about being a pretty good person, trying to do the right thing at all times, I don't lecture nor preach at/to others on how to behave and I've been getting pretty pizzed at the group-think indictments and unwanted "suggestions" from the right that has been building for years.

"Godless Left" is one of those buzz words that gnaws at me.

Especially from those public figures who are no where near as clean living as me...I despise those hypocrites, though wish them no harm. Just want them to STFU.

If there were no 10 commandments, I'd likely still have them as part of my core...even #7.
jetblasted Offline
#24 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 7:03 PM EST
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
Well, typically and historically, Liberals tend to be less of religious than Conservatives. Maybe, maybe not, but they're a lot more vocal about it, it seems.

And, with all the lawsuits and stories about gay folks suing Christian businesses, forcing them out of business, etc. I was just saying it's my belief that this will only intensify.

Specifically, they're going to go after Church's for their Tax Exempt Status . . .
frankj1 Offline
#25 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 7:33 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
jetblasted wrote:
Well, typically and historically, Liberals tend to be less of religious than Conservatives. Maybe, maybe not, but they're a lot more vocal about it, it seems.

And, with all the lawsuits and stories about gay folks suing Christian businesses, forcing them out of business, etc. I was just saying it's my belief that this will only intensify.

Specifically, they're going to go after Church's for their Tax Exempt Status . . .

based on just as little science as you also use, and also only knowing about what I have experienced in life, I'd say it has been my observation that until the last two or three decades, most "organized" religions in my lifetime (1953 born) were quite liberal in their views of society, their attitudes toward the poor and needy, etc. with the exception of perhaps abortion/birth control.

I think many of those followers are the same as before, but not as visible as the media savvy preachers and those they have enlisted. perhaps less audible would be a better word than less visible.

That's a whole lot of believers you tossed out with the bath water...

I'm not sure where I stand about tax exempt status.
surfish1961 Offline
#26 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 7:40 PM EST
Joined: 01-27-2008
Posts: 7,346
victor809 wrote:
What? It's not okay to change your mind on stuff now?

It's a strange world you live in...

The D's are quick to point out and vilify a flip-flopper in the opposition. Let the shoe be on the other foot and it's fine and dandy. Not only BHO but the darling of the Democratic party, Mrs. Clinton herself has done so. But they all do it. It's in most politician's nature to follow the direction the wind blows. That way they don't get caught up in the stench they've created.

It's a strange world we all live in.
victor809 Offline
#27 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 7:46 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
surfish1961 wrote:
The D's are quick to point out and vilify a flip-flopper in the opposition. Let the shoe be on the other foot and it's fine and dandy. Not only BHO but the darling of the Democratic party, Mrs. Clinton herself has done so. But they all do it. It's in most politician's nature to follow the direction the wind blows. That way they don't get caught up in the stench they've created.

It's a strange world we all live in.


Surf, I'm mocking the idea that the act of changing one's mind is unacceptable. Both sides will be upset if someone were to change their mind because they came to a conclusion that the person disagrees with, that's a given. But cbid, specifically it's vocal rabid right wing, is the only place I've ever seen people think the actual act of changing one's mind is unacceptable. (note, the comment was based on more than this single post... there's a long history with this place being anti-mind-changing).

All politicians are free to change their mind, even if they decide somthing I think is wrong. That's still their right to come to that conclusion.
jetblasted Offline
#28 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 8:26 PM EST
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
Frank, my experience is obviously Southern. Mostly Baptist & a little bit of Methodist thrown in. I think all Christian religions are known for charitable giving.

It's interesting to note that the Church my Parents were wed at, St. Marks Methodist Cathedral in Atlanta, is one of the largest gay-friendly Church's in the nation. It wasn't always that way, of course. St. Marks was completed in 1903 & constructed of granite taken from Stone Moumtain. It's a very beautiful Church.
teedubbya Offline
#29 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 8:29 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I wouldn't mistake a group of people loudly proclaiming themselves as being more godfull than another as actually being so.
tonygraz Offline
#30 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 9:39 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,267
When atheists go from house to house selling a magazine for half a buck and trying to get you to join them, I will be a bit upset.
frankj1 Offline
#31 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 9:57 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
jetblasted wrote:
Frank, my experience is obviously Southern. Mostly Baptist & a little bit of Methodist thrown in. I think all Christian religions are known for charitable giving.

It's interesting to note that the Church my Parents were wed at, St. Marks Methodist Cathedral in Atlanta, is one of the largest gay-friendly Church's in the nation. It wasn't always that way, of course. St. Marks was completed in 1903 & constructed of granite taken from Stone Moumtain. It's a very beautiful Church.

no problem with you, per usual.

but there has been a growing anger and intolerance of the needy, blaming and shaming, and it ain't coming from the left.
delta1 Offline
#32 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 10:02 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,797
OK, I changed my mind...Frank is pretty smart...
frankj1 Offline
#33 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 10:03 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
teedubbya wrote:
I wouldn't mistake a group of people loudly proclaiming themselves as being more godfull than another as actually being so.

that's just it. they won't stop yelling at me! that's why "the Godless Left" hit a chord.
frankj1 Offline
#34 Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2015, 10:28 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
delta1 wrote:
OK, I changed my mind...Frank is pretty smart...

um...thanks?*








*from another thread, posted by Victor
QMPASH Offline
#35 Posted: Tue, Jun 30 2015, 6:45 AM EST
Joined: 03-15-2011
Posts: 897
DrafterX wrote:
God is outraged.... Mellow


No, she's not outraged!!!

Sarcasm
TMCTLT Offline
#36 Posted: Tue, Jun 30 2015, 7:52 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
What? It's not okay to change your mind on stuff now?

It's a strange world you live in...



Dude your living in the " strange World" even when the voters of your adopted state said NO.....your elected officials stepped in and silenced them. Yeah.....that's the answer, screw those pesky voters anyway. It was / is wrong for the courts to MAKE LAW regardless of what those of you who agree with this say.
tonygraz Offline
#37 Posted: Tue, Jun 30 2015, 8:55 AM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,267
Lesson in American government # 3 - The Supreme Court decides on the constitutionality of laws and does not make them. Bet you would be really upset if they chose a winner in a presidential election(unless you agreed). Have a happy gay Monday !
TMCTLT Offline
#38 Posted: Tue, Jun 30 2015, 9:18 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
tonygraz wrote:
Lesson in American government # 3 - The Supreme Court decides on the constitutionality of laws and does not make them. Bet you would be really upset if they chose a winner in a presidential election(unless you agreed). Have a happy gay Monday !



Didn't agree with that either, BUT.....Thank GOD we didn't end up with Al the dipchit Gore in the WH!!!!!
And there is NOTHING in OUR Constitution about two men or two women = Marriage
We both know where this is headed next as their rogue campaign is never OVER, next they'll try to get our courts to FORCE denominational churches to go against their teachings so these confused individuals can marry in the church. ( that's when the chit will HTF

You too thweetie, BTW.....it's TUESDAY
cacman Offline
#39 Posted: Tue, Jun 30 2015, 9:26 AM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
tonygraz wrote:
Lesson in American government # 3 - The Supreme Court decides on the constitutionality of laws and helps the Liberals re-write them when they can't.

Fix it for ya.
teedubbya Offline
#40 Posted: Tue, Jun 30 2015, 9:36 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Yall are funny.
DrafterX Offline
#41 Posted: Tue, Jun 30 2015, 11:17 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
I'm funny how..?? I mean funny, like I'm a clown..?? I amuse you..?? Huh
Homebrew Offline
#42 Posted: Tue, Jun 30 2015, 11:31 AM EST
Joined: 02-11-2003
Posts: 11,885
I gave up, years ago, worrying about people who sin differently than me.

Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)Beer
banderl Offline
#43 Posted: Tue, Jun 30 2015, 11:36 AM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
TMCTLT wrote:
And there is NOTHING in OUR Constitution about two men or two women = Marriage



I really could not give a rats ass about **** but does the constitution say anything about marriage?
victor809 Offline
#44 Posted: Tue, Jun 30 2015, 11:47 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
TMCTLT wrote:
Dude your living in the " strange World" even when the voters of your adopted state said NO.....your elected officials stepped in and silenced them. Yeah.....that's the answer, screw those pesky voters anyway. It was / is wrong for the courts to MAKE LAW regardless of what those of you who agree with this say.


You don't understand a lot of government, do you?

I'm assuming you're referring to Prop 8. Which was not "silenced" by "my elected officials"... Prop 8 was overturned by a district judge... these are not elected, they are appointed. This particular judge was appointed by Bush.

Additionally, you seem to miss the entire point of courts, judges etc. Your elected officials are supposed to represent the will of the majority (in fact, that's their entire point, to do what the majority of the people have voted for them to do). But your courts are specifically put in place to ensure that the majority does not trample on the minority. Our country was not founded to simply do whatever the heck the most people want to do, that's a childish view of our representative democracy.
Speyside Offline
#45 Posted: Tue, Jun 30 2015, 12:02 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Marriage is not mentioned in the constitution, neither is morallity. But the 10th amendment clearly states that the federal government's powers are only those delegated to it by the constitution. Though it would be easy to argue that the Supreme Court has regularly ruled on issues not contained in the constitution.
tonygraz Offline
#46 Posted: Tue, Jun 30 2015, 12:21 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,267
Well, we don't know what a Gore presidency would have been like, but I doubt it would have been as much a disaster as we had with Bush.
Gene363 Offline
#47 Posted: Tue, Jun 30 2015, 2:20 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,822
frankj1 wrote:
are you saying the Morally Superior Right has purged themselves of atheists? No wonder they own morality...


There are plenty of conservative atheists, you just don't hear them whining about believers.
frankj1 Offline
#48 Posted: Tue, Jun 30 2015, 3:47 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
Gene363 wrote:
There are plenty of conservative atheists, you just don't hear them whining about believers.

so then there is also a Godless Right?

Interesting.

Gene363 Offline
#49 Posted: Tue, Jun 30 2015, 5:00 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,822
frankj1 wrote:
so then there is also a Godless Right?

Interesting.



I guess you've never heard a lefty vilify a conservative or compare them to the devil? Of course, they consider that a reasonable description. d'oh!
frankj1 Offline
#50 Posted: Tue, Jun 30 2015, 5:17 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
Gene363 wrote:
I guess you've never heard a lefty vilify a conservative or compare them to the devil? Of course, they consider that a reasonable description. d'oh!

sure I have. But never heard anyone here refer to the Godless Right segment before. Very refreshing.

Wouldn't that kind of level the playing field and make neither Morally Superior? Could that possibly lead to productive debate, end gridlock...you know, when sides respect each other as equals?
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