America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 8 years ago by tonygraz. 55 replies replies.
2 Pages12>
2nd Amendment..
rfenst Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336

WASHINGTON (AP) — Backed by the National Rifle Association, the Senate's No. 2 Republican leader introduced legislation Wednesday that would reward states for sending more information about residents with serious mental problems to the federal background check system for firearms purchasers.


The bill by Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, would also bolster programs for treating mentally ill people and handling confrontations with them. It comes after last month's killings in a Louisiana movie theater by a gunman with mental problems put a fresh spotlight on holes in the background check system and programs for people with psychological difficulties.


Cornyn's legislation is far more limited than a Senate measure expanding background check requirements that Republicans and the NRA helped defeat two years ago. It's also narrower than a bill a top Senate Democrat announced this week.


Still, it represents a rare effort by a leading Republican to propose modest steps that could curb some firearms purchases. Cornyn has an A-plus rating for his gun-rights voting record from the NRA, which long has fought gun restrictions yet has backed some bills limiting the ability of mentally troubled people to buy firearms.


Cornyn said that while past bills have been designed to "drive a political wedge" on the issue, his was aimed at helping people with mental health issues to "hopefully pre-empt them from committing an act of violence."


Jennifer Baker, spokeswoman for NRA legislative affairs, said the bill took "meaningful steps toward fixing the system and making our communities safer."


Gun control advocates criticized the measure for doing little to curb firearms purchases. Dan Gross, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said it "does nothing to prevent dangerous people from purchasing guns" online or at gun shows.


By law, federally licensed gun dealers must conduct background checks on firearms purchasers.


Among those barred from buying guns are people legally determined to be "mentally defective" and those who have been committed to mental institutions. But states are not required to send those records to the background check system, which is run by the FBI, and its database is spotty.


Cornyn's bill would increase grants under the government's main law enforcement program by up to 5 percent for states that send the federal system at least 90 percent of their records on people with serious mental problems. States providing less data could see their grants from a broad range of justice programs penalized by the same amounts, at the attorney general's discretion.


The bill would give state and local governments more flexibility to use federal funds to screen for mental problems in prisoners and improve training for law enforcement officers and others on handling emergencies involving the mentally ill.


Less than two weeks ago, John Russell Houser fired a handgun into a crowd of movie watchers in Lafayette, Louisiana, killing two and wounding nine. Houser's family said they knew he had mental problems and had sought court protection, but he was not involuntarily committed to a hospital.


When he purchased the weapon at a gun shop in Alabama, the information about his problems had not been sent to the background check system and the sale was allowed. Police said Houser killed himself after they confronted him.


Dylann Roof, charged in June's massacre of nine people at a historically black church in Charleston, South Carolina, bought his gun after an FBI background check examiner did not discover that Roof had been arrested for possessing illegal drugs, authorities said. That should have blocked his purchase.


On Monday, a Democratic leader, Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., introduced legislation that would provide extra federal money to states that send a broad range of data on the mentally ill to the federal system, including information about the mentally ill, violent criminals and domestic abusers.


In 2013, the Senate shelved bipartisan legislation that would have expanded required background checks to firearms bought at gun shows and all Internet sales. All but four of the chamber's 45 Republicans opposed the measure.
DrafterX Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
they'll prolly find this guy OD'd in a hotel room soon... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Damn commie socialists trying to take away my guns.
teedubbya Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
victor809 wrote:
Damn commie socialists trying to take away my guns.



Are you saying your name is on the list?
DrafterX Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
Clinton's list..?? Huh
teedubbya Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
Clinton's list..?? Huh



isn't that a speilberg movie?
tonygraz Online
#7 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,266
Why not have guns legal for mentally ill people - what could possibly go wrong ?
teedubbya Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
tonygraz wrote:
Why not have guns legal for mentally ill people - what could possibly go wrong ?



yea... otherwise half the folks in here couldn't have them
DrafterX Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
when they outlaw guns for the mentally ill, only the mentally ill will have guns... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
cool ThumpUp
Abrignac Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,278
It's outrageous. It's crazy.
Gene363 Online
#12 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,822
rfenst wrote:
...By law, federally licensed gun dealers must conduct background checks on firearms purchasers...


Incorrect, they are required to call for a background check made by the FBI. That check can be waived if the buyer is a holder of a concealed carry permit since they have already had a documented background check.

I suspect they are going to violate HIPPA laws by sharing patient information, patients have rights, even if they are flat crazy.
Gene363 Online
#13 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,822
I can see an effort to require a mental health check to buy guns... that nobody can pass or a required exam that is not funded and therefore unavailable. These ideas will be perceived exactly for what they are, an end run on banning individual firearm ownership. Gun crime shave been trending down for many years according to the FBI. Just more emotional gun grabber Bullsh|t.
DrafterX Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
I think California is already taking guns from people prescribed anti-depressants... I think in one case they took some guns from an uncle that was living in the same house as a kid on the drugs... Mellow
Brewha Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
It's just ridiculous. Everyone knows laws about guns don't work. They waist money on tons of laws like "it illegal to shoot someone", and yet people get shot every day. Why do we even have these laws???
DrafterX Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
somethin about Obama's legacy or somethin like that... I dunno... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
HIPAA is an interesting thing. It's counterintuative but in some instances it actually allows or provides for sharing info when you would think it's the opposite.
Brewha Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
We should all be getting Obamaguns. Just to stop the violence....
frankj1 Online
#19 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
Gene363 wrote:
I can see an effort to require a mental health check to buy guns... that nobody can pass or a required exam that is not funded and therefore unavailable. These ideas will be perceived exactly for what they are, an end run on banning individual firearm ownership. Gun crime shave been trending down for many years according to the FBI. Just more emotional gun grabber Bullsh|t.

nah, no way. the guy is a big time republican. he would not pull an end around like a libtard, especially with his high favorable gun rating to this point in his career.

besides, he'd forfeit his Party dues when kicked out. I assure you, he is not, repeat NOT, part of the conspiracy we fear. He's just trying to find a way to keep completely insane people, like people who hear voices telling them to kill other people, from getting guns...cuz nothing has worked so far.

Them voices can be pretty convincing, I don't mind telling you.
Abrignac Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,278
When you get right down to it, this is much adieu about nothing. I seriously doubt it will save lives.

There are upwards of 270 million privately owned firearms in the U.S. Preventing someone from buying a firearm does not prevent them from obtaining one. If one wants something they will find a way to process it. Short of total confiscation, anyone has the ability to acquire a gun.

So-called "responsible" gun laws accomplish little more than to turn otherwise law abiding citizens into felons who find their ability to earn wages is sharply reduced because many employers will not hire them. People who once held jobs which enabled them to provide for their family find themselves with many less options. Many of them turn to criminal behavior so they can continue to provide for their families.

What is so bad about being in a firearm-free zone with a firearm? If no one is shot, what *real crime* has been committed? How about we severely punish those who harm or take from others? Doing so will clear the courts of the truly bullchit cases and free up time so the *real criminals* can have the full attention of the court instead of pleading those cases to maintain an acceptable work load.
Gene363 Online
#21 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,822
frankj1 wrote:
nah, no way. the guy is a big time republican. he would not pull an end around like a libtard, especially with his high favorable gun rating to this point in his career.

besides, he'd forfeit his Party dues when kicked out. I assure you, he is not, repeat NOT, part of the conspiracy we fear. He's just trying to find a way to keep completely insane people, like people who hear voices telling them to kill other people, from getting guns...cuz nothing has worked so far.

Them voices can be pretty convincing, I don't mind telling you.


True, about as likely of a republican controlled congress, AKA parliament of whores, would hand Obama fast track authority, wait, they did? WTF! you gotta be.. Full of crap
Gene363 Online
#22 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,822
Abrignac wrote:
When you get right down to it, this is much adieu about nothing. I seriously doubt it will save lives.

There are upwards of 270 million privately owned firearms in the U.S. Preventing someone from buying a firearm does not prevent them from obtaining one. If one wants something they will find a way to process it. Short of total confiscation, anyone has the ability to acquire a gun.

So-called "responsible" gun laws accomplish little more than to turn otherwise law abiding citizens into felons who find their ability to earn wages is sharply reduced because many employers will not hire them. People who once held jobs which enabled them to provide for their family find themselves with many less options. Many of them turn to criminal behavior so they can continue to provide for their families.

What is so bad about being in a firearm-free zone with a firearm? If no one is shot, what *real crime* has been committed? How about we severely punish those who harm or take from others? Doing so will clear the courts of the truly bullchit cases and free up time so the *real criminals* can have the full attention of the court instead of pleading those cases to maintain an acceptable work load.


How do you eat an elephant?

It's an issue like abortion, but the roles are exchanged, mention of distant thought about limiting any aspect of abortion and suddenly you hate women and you're a terrible person.

FWIW, a woman friend, who is a devout liberal, thinks anything about gun control is total BS since there are millions and millions of them already in circulation.
frankj1 Online
#23 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
I gotta learn to use them smiley thingies.
Brewha Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Abrignac wrote:
When you get right down to it, this is much adieu about nothing. I seriously doubt it will save lives.

There are upwards of 270 million privately owned firearms in the U.S. Preventing someone from buying a firearm does not prevent them from obtaining one. If one wants something they will find a way to process it. Short of total confiscation, anyone has the ability to acquire a gun.

So-called "responsible" gun laws accomplish little more than to turn otherwise law abiding citizens into felons who find their ability to earn wages is sharply reduced because many employers will not hire them. People who once held jobs which enabled them to provide for their family find themselves with many less options. Many of them turn to criminal behavior so they can continue to provide for their families.

What is so bad about being in a firearm-free zone with a firearm? If no one is shot, what *real crime* has been committed? How about we severely punish those who harm or take from others? Doing so will clear the courts of the truly bullchit cases and free up time so the *real criminals* can have the full attention of the court instead of pleading those cases to maintain an acceptable work load.

Right. It's like having crack. It should not be a crime to have it, only to smoke it Gonz

Do you feel that the laws the make it illegal for a felon to own a gun are useless or as you seem to paint it, detrimental?

It seems it is obvious that there are times when position of a weapon should be criminal because of the risk it poses. In a bar, on an airplane, in a court room.

There is a balancing act here. And having everyone have a gun anywhere is not a reasonable thing.
Brewha Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Gene363 wrote:
How do you eat an elephant?

It's an issue like abortion, but the roles are exchanged, mention of distant thought about limiting any aspect of abortion and suddenly you hate women and you're a terrible person.

FWIW, a woman friend, who is a devout liberal, thinks anything about gun control is total BS since there are millions and millions of them already in circulation.

So she feels that it should be legal for a 10 year old to open carry? I mean they would look cute with a little six shooter on their hip, just for snakes and such, when they go to the mall.....
Gene363 Online
#26 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,822
Brewha wrote:
So she feels that it should be legal for a 10 year old to open carry? I mean they would look cute with a little six shooter on their hip, just for snakes and such, when they go to the mall.....


Shesh, what 10 year old doesn't?
Abrignac Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,278
Brewha wrote:
Right. It's like having crack. It should not be a crime to have it, only to smoke it Gonz


Do you feel that the laws the make it illegal for a felon to own a gun are useless or as you seem to paint it, detrimental?

It think it is obvious that there are times when position of a weapon should be criminal because of the risk it poses. In a bar, on an airplane, in a court room.


Thank you for making my point for me. Crack is outlawed, but it's easily available.

Scott, you and I will probably never agree on this, and that's fine. I don't profess to know everything about law enforcement, I'm rather new to it with only 11 years experience. But, what I do know is if someone wants something bad enough they will find a way to possess it. I don't have to read about it and everyday, I don't have to watch it on the news, I see it everyday.

If I thought for one minute that the so-called common sense legislation would save lives I'd be the first person to support it. As one person here put it he just wants his son, a LEO, to come home at the end of his shift. I also want to come home.

At the end of the day none of those laws makes anyone safer. On my off duty days I work as a School Resource Officer. Schools are fun free zones. But, that hasn't stopped middle school kids from bringing guns to school. I remember an incident that happened about five years ago. A 7th grader was in the principle's office. A gun fell out of his pants leg. He picked it up and ran away. We combed the neighborhood around the school and eventually found him and the gun. It was a loaded 9mm. The student was locked up for a day or two. About a year ago he was found guilty of murder and sentenced to life.
Brewha Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Abrignac wrote:
Thank you for making my point for me. Crack is outlawed, but it's easily available.

Scott, you and I will probably never agree on this, and that's fine. I don't profess to know everything about law enforcement, I'm rather new to it with only 11 years experience. But, what I do know is if someone wants something bad enough they will find a way to possess it. I don't have to read about it and everyday, I don't have to watch it on the news, I see it everyday.

If I thought for one minute that the so-called common sense legislation would save lives I'd be the first person to support it. As one person here put it he just wants his son, a LEO, to come home at the end of his shift. I also want to come home.

At the end of the day none of those laws makes anyone safer. On my off duty days I work as a School Resource Officer. Schools are fun free zones. But, that hasn't stopped middle school kids from bringing guns to school. I remember an incident that happened about five years ago. A 7th grader was in the principle's office. A gun fell out of his pants leg. He picked it up and ran away. We combed the neighborhood around the school and eventually found him and the gun. It was a loaded 9mm. The student was locked up for a day or two. About a year ago he was found guilty of murder and sentenced to life.

Anthony, I do respect your view, particularly as it is a part of your profession. Yet I am confused by it. Especially from a law officer. I would think you would want all the legal tools you could have, not less. To keep the peace, as it were.

A law never stops a crime. It does allow us to punish it though. And it does have a level of deterrence. And for some, they never go above the posted speed limit - because it is a crime. Of cource not everyone.

Now it is a truism that a criminal will always find a way. But to me that has little bearing on what should be crime by law.

And I think the person that allowed the child access to the gun did something criminal. Or it should be a crime. Truth is I don't even know how old one needs to be to carry. But 12 or 13 is too young.

I think the regulation should be appropriate to the risk. Like driving a car, flying a plane, handling explosives. You can do it if you meet requirements and know what your doing - which means not everyone. Owning a fire arm is a big responsibility. And we need laws regarding who can have what.




I don't own a gun. Not that I have not fired them. And I don't want one.
But I am glad that you as a pro have one.
It's the other clowns that worry me...
Brewha Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Gene363 wrote:
Shesh, what 10 year old doesn't?

Your "women friend" is 10?
Gene363 Online
#30 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,822
Brewha wrote:
Your "women friend" is 10?


No
wheelrite Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
victor809 wrote:
I seduced a Young Republican Congressional Paige dude in 1997.



oh my


wheel,,
Abrignac Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,278
Brewha wrote:
Anthony, I do respect your view, particularly as it is a part of your profession. Yet I am confused by it. Especially from a law officer. I would think you would want all the legal tools you could have, not less. To keep the peace, as it were.


At face value it's easy to make that assumption. Years ago, I would have agreed with you. But, think of it like this, certian people are going to have guns regardless. But, if simply possessing one wasn't illegal under certian circumstances there would be many less foot pursuits through dark abandoned buildings. Also, I would venture to say a number of officers might still be with us because some felons may not have been worried about going back to jail for an extended length of time because they had guns.

Brewha wrote:
A law never stops a crime. It does allow us to punish it though. And it does have a level of deterrence. And for some, they never go above the posted speed limit - because it is a crime. Of cource not everyone.

Now it is a truism that a criminal will always find a way. But to me that has little bearing on what should be crime by law.


Here is the truism in that. If you look at all firearm related homocides, I would say at least 90% of them are not crimes of opportunity. By and large firearm related homocides are committed by career criminals, true predators. They can and will acquire a firearm by any means. To keep guns out of their hands which would prevent the overwhelming vast majority of firearm homocides there would have to be absolutely no way for them to acquire a firearm.

Brewha wrote:

And I think the person that allowed the child access to the gun did something criminal. Or it should be a crime. Truth is I don't even know how old one needs to be to carry. But 12 or 13 is too young.


No disrespect, but those words are very naive. You're an engineer. I would assume you live a comfortable life in a neighborhood where it's safe to leave your doors unlocked. The world that child came from is one where it is common to see people shot and killed in the street in front of their house in broad daylight. A world where his role models hand him a gun and tell him to go get the money from the ice cream truck when it turns onto his block.

In his world a loaded gun is as common to him as a gameboy would be to your children. In essence, what we find appalling it exactly what he was exposed to since the day he came into this world.


Brewha wrote:

I think the regulation should be appropriate to the risk. Like driving a car, flying a plane, handling explosives. You can do it if you meet requirements and know what your doing - which means not everyone. Owning a fire arm is a big responsibility. And we need laws regarding who can have what.


Therein lies the fallacy, you're attempting to regulate people who will for the most part self regulate. I grew up around firearms.

When I was about 6 years old, my grandfather taught me how to shoot using an old .22 rifle. He and my father took me hunting. They both taught me gun safety. Above all they taught me to not to be afraid of firearms, but to respect their ability to destroy. Most importantly they taught me firearms were not toys to be played with. I would feel confident in saying that most accidental shootings by minors occurred because those children were not properly taught to respect firearms.

Brewha wrote:

I don't own a gun. Not that I have not fired them. And I don't want one.
But I am glad that you as a pro have one.
It's the other clowns that worry me...


They worry me every day.

TMCTLT Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
A most interesting post and debate on more gun laws and I have to give the nod to Anthony as the clear headed rational debater on this one. And also agree whole heatedly with the " how do you eat an elephant analogy. For the majority of these folks who think that any and every law abiding legal gun owners are somehow a threat to society is just foolishness. More laws regarding gun ownership / possession is " just that " ....more useless laws. In the case of Adam Lanza, who was crazier....him or his mother for teaching him how to use guns and not properly storing them? And in virtually every one of these cases there WERE red flags or known mental issues that " should have " prevented these individuals from possessing a firearm. This IS the incremental creep that law abiding people who respect the right and freedom to possess a firearm are afraid of.
Brewha Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Abrignac wrote:
At face value it's easy to make that assumption. Years ago, I would have agreed with you. But, think of it like this, certian people are going to have guns regardless. But, if simply possessing one wasn't illegal under certian circumstances there would be many less foot pursuits through dark abandoned buildings. Also, I would venture to say a number of officers might still be with us because some felons may not have been worried about going back to jail for an extended length of time because they had guns.

Hmmm. An interesting point. I will consider this.


Abrignac wrote:
Here is the truism in that. If you look at all firearm related homocides, I would say at least 90% of them are not crimes of opportunity. By and large firearm related homocides are committed by career criminals, true predators. They can and will acquire a firearm by any means. To keep guns out of their hands which would prevent the overwhelming vast majority of firearm homocides there would have to be absolutely no way for them to acquire a firearm.

This may be. But decimalizing their fire arms would not be helpful.


Abrignac wrote:
No disrespect, but those words are very naive. You're an engineer. I would assume you live a comfortable life in a neighborhood where it's safe to leave your doors unlocked. The world that child came from is one where it is common to see people shot and killed in the street in front of their house in broad daylight. A world where his role models hand him a gun and tell him to go get the money from the ice cream truck when it turns onto his block.

In his world a loaded gun is as common to him as a gameboy would be to your children. In essence, what we find appalling it exactly what he was exposed to since the day he came into this world.

Not naive, altruistic maybe, impractical in some cases perhaps, but it is objective. And I think we do agree that our objective should be do not turn a blind I to the crime of and adult putting a child in that situation.



Abrignac wrote:
Therein lies the fallacy, you're attempting to regulate people who will for the most part self regulate.

No. I just would like crime to be deterred. Just like the good people that want picture ID’s to vote.
DrafterX Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
I could sure use and ice cream sammich about now... Mellow
Abrignac Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,278
TMCTLT wrote:
In the case of Adam Lanza, who was crazier....him or his mother for teaching him how to use guns and not properly storing them? And in virtually every one of these cases there WERE red flags or known mental issues that " should have " prevented these individuals from possessing a firearm.


Therein lies the fallacy in so-called reasonable or smart gun laws. It would be my guess that this troubled young man decided that he was ready to exit the world. But, he didn't want to do it in a quiet way. He wanted to be remembered. Surely he was familiar with Columbine, VA Tech and some of the other high profile mass shootings. He knew those incidents had captured the attention of the world. By re-creating those events he knew his name would live on after he was but a rotten hunk of worm food. He was a nobody seeking way more than his 15 minutes of fame.

Surely there's not a person alive that believes he would not have found a way to achieve what he considered his glory.

As far as the cooing off period is concerned, the press and the gun control groups quickly seize on the cases where someone purchases a gun and shoots someone an hour or two later. What no one wants to talk about is the fact that those cases show up in statistics only when those statistics use about 2 or 3 significant digits.

Even more telling is the nature of gun violence. Over time, Baltimore, Chicago, Washington DC, New York, Los Angeles and Detroit have had some of the highest numbers of gun related homocides in the U.S. Yet, those areas are also covered by some of the most restrictive gun laws in the U.S. I would bet the bulk of those gun related deaths are the result of predators fighting over drug turf, drug deals gone bad and retaliatory hits. If they aren't concerned with a life sentence for murder, then the certainly aren't concerned with a few years for possessing an illegal firearm.
Brewha Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
DrafterX wrote:
I could sure use and ice cream sammich about now... Mellow

That's just cold....
DrafterX Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
yes, colder the better... Mellow
Abrignac Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,278
The problem with criminalizing gun possession is what it does to the families of those convicted. Consider this. Everyday people are stopped by police because the forgot to signal a turn, or they failed to get their inspection sticker renewed on time. If they are in a high crime area, there car is going to be searched. If a an unregistered gun is found, they are headed to prison for 5 or 10 years leaving no one to provide for their families. No only that, but those fathers are no longer there to rear their sons. In his absence the streets do his job, but the result is less than desirable. The end result society now has another criminal. Keep in mind that perhaps the only reason that person had a gun in the first place is because he has been robbed once or twice and decided he doesn't want to be a victim again.
Abrignac Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,278
DrafterX wrote:
I could sure use and ice cream sammich about now... Mellow

That would hit the spot since its already about 95 degrees.
Brewha Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Abrignac wrote:
The problem with criminalizing gun possession is what it does to the families of those convicted. Consider this. Everyday people are stopped by police because the forgot to signal a turn, or they failed to get their inspection sticker renewed on time. If they are in a high crime area, there car is going to be searched. If a an unregistered gun is found, they are headed to prison for 5 or 10 years leaving no one to provide for their families. No only that, but those fathers are no longer there to rear their sons. In his absence the streets do his job, but the result is less than desirable. The end result society now has another criminal. Keep in mind that perhaps the only reason that person had a gun in the first place is because he has been robbed once or twice and decided he doesn't want to be a victim again.

Ok, now we are making some headway. I would agree that mandatory sentencing is often overboard. I mean if I wanted to get rid of somebody, I could plant a gun on then in NYC and they do a year of jail time – through no fault of their own.

I mean if they caught come some nerd like me with a gun it should be a slap on the wrist for the first offence. Hell I haven’t even had a speeding tick in this century. But if you catch a felon in a crack house with a piece missing the serial numbers – say by.
DrafterX Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
poor CROS.... Sad
victor809 Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Abrignac wrote:
Schools are fun free zones. But, that hasn't stopped middle school kids from bringing guns to school.


Is no one going to pick this one up???
TMCTLT Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
Is no one going to pick this one up???




You just did....yes I saw it, took it for what it is / was....a typo in an otherwise very coherent post.

okay, maybe worthy of a light chuckle fog
TMCTLT Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Abrignac wrote:
Therein lies the fallacy in so-called reasonable or smart gun laws. It would be my guess that this troubled young man decided that he was ready to exit the world. But, he didn't want to do it in a quiet way. He wanted to be remembered. Surely he was familiar with Columbine, VA Tech and some of the other high profile mass shootings. He knew those incidents had captured the attention of the world. By re-creating those events he knew his name would live on after he was but a rotten hunk of worm food. He was a nobody seeking way more than his 15 minutes of fame.

Surely there's not a person alive that believes he would not have found a way to achieve what he considered his glory.

As far as the cooing off period is concerned, the press and the gun control groups quickly seize on the cases where someone purchases a gun and shoots someone an hour or two later. What no one wants to talk about is the fact that those cases show up in statistics only when those statistics use about 2 or 3 significant digits.

Even more telling is the nature of gun violence. Over time, Baltimore, Chicago, Washington DC, New York, Los Angeles and Detroit have had some of the highest numbers of gun related homocides in the U.S. Yet, those areas are also covered by some of the most restrictive gun laws in the U.S. I would bet the bulk of those gun related deaths are the result of predators fighting over drug turf, drug deals gone bad and retaliatory hits. If they aren't concerned with a life sentence for murder, then the certainly aren't concerned with a few years for possessing an illegal firearm.




Won't argue these points and would concur completely with the last paragraph!! For those wanting to pile on more and more restrictive laws to be to some degree crazy themselves.

And Brewha, my friend...no one short of crazy doesn't want these needless / senseless crimes and deaths to happen
tonygraz Online
#46 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,266
In Massachusetts one needs a special permit to have any kind of a firearm in the car. If you don't have a special permit you go to jail. When I worked for Colt (in CT), I occasionally got tapped to take a load of guns from one plant to another. I was concerned about what would happen if I was stopped by the police. What concerned me even more was that our guards could not carry and instead had guns locked in a drawer. My concerns were not considered until somebody's husband walked into the plant with a gun and shot his wife.
Brewha Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
TMCTLT wrote:
Won't argue these points and would concur completely with the last paragraph!! For those wanting to pile on more and more restrictive laws to be to some degree crazy themselves.

And Brewha, my friend...no one short of crazy doesn't want these needless / senseless crimes and deaths to happen

I suppose as always, the Devil himself lives in the details.

I don't want to see people who need defense, my wife and others, be disallowed a fire arm when needed. And the hard core criminals will always find a way to have weapons. But, the seeming wide scale proliferation of guns appears to only be increasing the risk to the innocent.

My opinion; those who are armed should have just cause in the eyes of the law. Like Anthony pointed out; guns ar not toys.
TMCTLT Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Brewha wrote:
I suppose as always, the Devil himself lives in the details.

I don't want to see people who need defense, my wife and others, be disallowed a fire arm when needed. And the hard core criminals will always find a way to have weapons. But, the seeming wide scale proliferation of guns appears to only be increasing the risk to the innocent.

My opinion; those who are armed should have just cause in the eyes of the law. Like Anthony pointed out; guns ar not toys.



Neither are kitchen knives or cars or airplanes or motorcycles or ( Drunk Drivers who year in year out kill more than guns ever did. )The " just cause " as you put it....is called personal protection, afforded us under our wonderful constitution so that we may stand a fighting chance against those who have little to no respect for other human lives.
tonygraz Online
#49 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,266
So where is the phrase "personal protection" in the constitution or the amendments thereto ?
TMCTLT Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
tonygraz wrote:
So where is the phrase "personal protection" in the constitution or the amendments thereto ?



The same place that you'll find the right to healthcare.....Beer


More insanity on the right to bear coming out of that Garden City of New Yourk....


http://www.responseaction.com/Article/nyc-threatens-jail-marine-veteran-declaring-lawful-handguns
Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages12>