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Last post 8 years ago by teedubbya. 21 replies replies.
The problem with echo chambers....
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victor809 Offline
#1 Posted: Fri, Aug 7 2015, 12:57 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
So something that struck me about the debate last night, which may not have been apparent to a lot of the individuals here is that the republican party has effectively lost the election.

The problem isn't the candidates themselves (some sounded like reasonable human beings, who could perform the duty of president adequately). The problem, for the most part, appears to be the republican party leadership (as it exerted itself through Fox news) and the pandering to the base they seem to think is necessary.

Look at the questions they asked the candidates (paraphrased):
How illegal are you going to make abortion?
How big a wall do you want to build, and how many illegal immigrants are you going to throw out?
How much do you hate terrorists?
How much do you hate obamacare?
How quickly will you end the deal with Iran?
And my favorite, so I'm quoting it directly: "I want to know if any of them have received a word from God on what they should do and take care of first."


The questions they are asking these candidates are ensuring that the the candidates will be unelectable in the general election. I understand that a lot of you may not get why (and that's why I titled this the way I did), but you have to understand that I'm the voter the republicans need. I DON'T like the poor and the needy. I DON'T want social programs. I DON'T give a rat's azz about gun control. I personally thought obamacare was a bad long term plan. It's voters like myself who would be most likely to jump ship if a viable candidate were presented from the Republican side.

But now, each one of those candidates is on record pandering to the far right base. Those clowns were going to vote republican anyway. Why sink the election just to give the primary candidates an opportunity to pander to their base?

A smarter Republican leadership would have steered the h#ll away from those questions. If possible, they would have stuck to topics which would be more of the focus in the general debates. Because now, in the general election, all the democratic nominee has to do is reference some of these answers and will easily swing the independent vote.
riverdog Offline
#2 Posted: Fri, Aug 7 2015, 1:23 PM EST
Joined: 03-28-2008
Posts: 2,600
Herfing Apparently no points to argue in there.
Abrignac Offline
#3 Posted: Fri, Aug 7 2015, 1:30 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,278
victor809 wrote:
So something that struck me about the debate last night, which may not have been apparent to a lot of the individuals here is that the republican party has effectively lost the election.

The problem isn't the candidates themselves (some sounded like reasonable human beings, who could perform the duty of president adequately). The problem, for the most part, appears to be the republican party leadership (as it exerted itself through Fox news) and the pandering to the base they seem to think is necessary.

Look at the questions they asked the candidates (paraphrased):
How illegal are you going to make abortion?
How big a wall do you want to build, and how many illegal immigrants are you going to throw out?
How much do you hate terrorists?
How much do you hate obamacare?
How quickly will you end the deal with Iran?
And my favorite, so I'm quoting it directly: "I want to know if any of them have received a word from God on what they should do and take care of first."


The questions they are asking these candidates are ensuring that the the candidates will be unelectable in the general election. I understand that a lot of you may not get why (and that's why I titled this the way I did), but you have to understand that I'm the voter the republicans need. I DON'T like the poor and the needy. I DON'T want social programs. I DON'T give a rat's azz about gun control. I personally thought obamacare was a bad long term plan. It's voters like myself who would be most likely to jump ship if a viable candidate were presented from the Republican side.

But now, each one of those candidates is on record pandering to the far right base. Those clowns were going to vote republican anyway. Why sink the election just to give the primary candidates an opportunity to pander to their base?

A smarter Republican leadership would have steered the h#ll away from those questions. If possible, they would have stuck to topics which would be more of the focus in the general debates. Because now, in the general election, all the democratic nominee has to do is reference some of these answers and will easily swing the independent vote.



I've been wondering why.....
Brewha Offline
#4 Posted: Fri, Aug 7 2015, 1:35 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Ladies and Gentlemen this is your captain speaking.
We’ll be landing soon at the FoxAmerica Theme park – please set your watch back 200 years….
victor809 Offline
#5 Posted: Fri, Aug 7 2015, 2:07 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Seriously, the only explanation I can come up with is that the Republican leadership has been surrounding itself with so many like-minded people that it simply doesn't understand that the "independents" or whatever you want to call the group caught between Obama and a dumb-spot, finds the far right extremes unpalatable.

I have three things in my "Will never vote for" list. I don't care how much their opponent wants to tax me, or even how untrustworthy their opponent appears, I will never vote for a candidate if they have expressed any of these 3 things:
- Against gay rights. I won't throw my friends under the bus.
- Anti-choice.
- Their god tells them to do anything. I don't care if their god told them to give me $5MM. I cannot trust a person who listens to their god and will develop policy based on what they think he/she/it said. Since it isn't my god, they are always one "whisper" away from their god telling them to have all the unbelievers put in re-education camps.

Unfortunately, Fox decided it was a good idea to have their candidates really double down on a bunch of these.
tailgater Offline
#6 Posted: Fri, Aug 7 2015, 2:11 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
So many juicy morsels from Victor's opening gem, and brewha takes the Liz Warren sound bite instead.

So disappointing.
SmokeMonkey Offline
#7 Posted: Fri, Aug 7 2015, 2:16 PM EST
Joined: 04-05-2015
Posts: 5,688
But, Victor, you would take the $5MM, right?
ZRX1200 Offline
#8 Posted: Fri, Aug 7 2015, 2:26 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,615
Victor, you have to separate the establishment GOP and non-establishment GOP.

I think they're scared their little monopoly in their half of the sandbox is getting overthrown when they've abandoned their base and right leaning liberatarians.
Brewha Offline
#9 Posted: Fri, Aug 7 2015, 2:52 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
tailgater wrote:
So many juicy morsels from Victor's opening gem, and brewha takes the Liz Warren sound bite instead.

So disappointing.

Sorry Dude, busy day at the office....
victor809 Offline
#10 Posted: Fri, Aug 7 2015, 2:53 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
It's sad, because this was their best opportunity ever.

I'm willing to bet that the Republican party has never had so many non-republicans (independents, dems) watching a Republican debate. This was a seriously prime opportunity to get one or two of their candidates in front of an audience of voters who may never have heard them speak.

By choosing this opportunity to double down on far right topics, they really lost an opportunity to make headway on the actual presidential election.

teedubbya Offline
#11 Posted: Fri, Aug 7 2015, 2:58 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Zrx could be. Is Cruz establishment though? He's all kinds of scary crazy. What a freak.

Paul looked like one of the goth guys on South Park.
teedubbya Offline
#12 Posted: Fri, Aug 7 2015, 2:59 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I have to think about kaisic a bit more. He almost seemed reasonable.
ZRX1200 Offline
#13 Posted: Fri, Aug 7 2015, 3:10 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,615
Cruz isn't establishment.
teedubbya Offline
#14 Posted: Fri, Aug 7 2015, 3:48 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Yet he is a big part of the problem with the party. One that makes it hard to become a republican and harder for them to win a national election. He is and panders to the lowest or low common denominators in the extreme part of the party.
teedubbya Offline
#15 Posted: Fri, Aug 7 2015, 3:49 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Become should have been just be, but it works in both contexts.
teedubbya Offline
#16 Posted: Fri, Aug 7 2015, 3:52 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I kept thinking last night how will any of this help win a general election ..... It's not enough to win runner up. ThT makes you a ducockass not Reagan. Kasich came closest in that regard which dooms him with the party.
victor809 Offline
#17 Posted: Fri, Aug 7 2015, 3:56 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
teedubbya wrote:
I kept thinking last night how will any of this help win a general election ..... It's not enough to win runner up. ThT makes you a ducockass not Reagan. Kasich came closest in that regard which dooms him with the party.


It doesn't just not help win... Whoever wins this primary is going to actually have an uphill fight against everything they said in the primary debates. The questions set them up for failure.
victor809 Offline
#18 Posted: Fri, Aug 7 2015, 4:01 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
To be perfectly honest, I'm tired of Clinton. I was amused when she was going up against Obama in the primary, but 8 years later (and the application of the ACA) I'm just bored of her. And honestly, I'm just tired of hearing people whine about her...

It became clear last night that I cannot expect a republican to win next year. At this point I can only hope that another democrat pulls off the nomination.
frankj1 Offline
#19 Posted: Fri, Aug 7 2015, 4:02 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
victor809 wrote:
It's sad, because this was their best opportunity ever.

I'm willing to bet that the Republican party has never had so many non-republicans (independents, dems) watching a Republican debate. This was a seriously prime opportunity to get one or two of their candidates in front of an audience of voters who may never have heard them speak.

By choosing this opportunity to double down on far right topics, they really lost an opportunity to make headway on the actual presidential election.


2 is company, 3's a crowd...what does that make 17?
It makes it impossible to be heard by the audience. How could they ever let it get to this point? Not impressive leadership being demonstrated.

There is nobody running this party, there are no thoughts on what to do, just what to undo. It's all negatives.

They are intent on losing when they should have had a cakewalk (always wondered what a cakewalk really means).
teedubbya Offline
#20 Posted: Fri, Aug 7 2015, 4:04 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
The problem with the no compromise extreme wing of the Republican Party including many tea parties is that they have all the markings of a third party and are odd bedfellows in the Republican Party. The republicans grab on to them to win state elections etc but can't figure out how to manage them in a national because the mainstream party are not entirely sincere and these folks will not compromise or be managed.

It's quite the dilemma. They really should just run independent but know that guarantees a dem win. So there is the great pretend.
teedubbya Offline
#21 Posted: Fri, Aug 7 2015, 4:06 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Clinton sucks ass.

Abc (anyone but Clinton or Cruz)
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