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Why has illegal immigration decreased?
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tailgater Offline
#1 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 9:08 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Look up the statistics.
Illegal immigration has apparently decreased over the past 5 or so years.

And the number of border arrests have decreased also (from over 1MM to about 600k). So it's not an increased or improved border patrol.

Why have the numbers decreased, and if this is real, why are we so "trumped" up about it now?
DrafterX Offline
#2 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 9:11 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
tailgater wrote:
Look up the statistics.




Where did you find yours..?? They've prolly been manipulated and stuff... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#3 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 9:27 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
Didn't we have like 500,000 kids come across the border last year we had to find homes for..?? Think
TMCTLT Offline
#4 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 9:41 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
IT ISN'T......don't trust the man behind the curtain!!!

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/07/09/border-patrol-official-dhs-ordered-illegal-immigrant-holding-facility-cleared-out-before-congressional-visit/



These are out and out lies....being perpetrated by this administration. And it's absolutely criminal

Check out the case in TX. where some Illegal invading mothers with children are suing the Fed Gov for ( supposed ) sub-par living conditions in the holding facility while being processed. Tax payer dollars going to legal representation through the F'n ACLU. Brick wall
victor809 Offline
#5 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 10:59 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
TMCTLT wrote:
IT ISN'T......don't trust the man behind the curtain!!!

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/07/09/border-patrol-official-dhs-ordered-illegal-immigrant-holding-facility-cleared-out-before-congressional-visit/



These are out and out lies....being perpetrated by this administration. And it's absolutely criminal

Check out the case in TX. where some Illegal invading mothers with children are suing the Fed Gov for ( supposed ) sub-par living conditions in the holding facility while being processed. Tax payer dollars going to legal representation through the F'n ACLU. Brick wall


^pretty sure none of that actually impacts the final numbers of illegal immigrants. Keeping reporters from holding facilities is not going to impact American Community Survey data.
TMCTLT Offline
#6 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 11:12 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
^pretty sure none of that actually impacts the final numbers of illegal immigrants. Keeping reporters from holding facilities is not going to impact American Community Survey data.



Can I ask Victor, are you actually okay with the way in which this Administration deals with the flood of Illegal Aliens that are already here and those that continue to come? Are you also okay with tax payer dollars going for FREE legal representation for these Law breakers? Not to mention ALL the other freebies being afforded them....

And you are correct if the press cannot access the areas the American community cannot and will not know what's really going on when being surveyed
victor809 Offline
#7 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 11:24 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I look at the illegal immigration issue the same way I would look at osmosis across a semipermeable membrane. It is inevitable, whether I choose to like it or not.

As much as people love the fantasy of some impenetrable wall, we have to accept that our borders will ALWAYS be semipermeable. They have to be, for the huge amount of trade we do north and south. With that in mind, with a high concentration of wealth on one side of the membrane, and a high concentration of poor on the other, osmosis will occur due to osmodic pressure....

As for whether we provide illegals with legal representation... that's just part of our system. I wouldn't get too worked up over it.

I haven't decided how I feel about amnesty. I think there may be better ways to approach it, but simply throwing them back over the wall is just maintaining the osmotic pressure. You're going to be constantly fighting a force that will eat at your resources, over and over again.
tailgater Offline
#8 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 11:48 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
DrafterX wrote:
Where did you find yours..?? They've prolly been manipulated and stuff... Mellow


Virtually every source shows the same figures.
TMCTLT Offline
#9 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 12:05 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
I look at the illegal immigration issue the same way I would look at osmosis across a semipermeable membrane. It is inevitable, whether I choose to like it or not.

As much as people love the fantasy of some impenetrable wall, we have to accept that our borders will ALWAYS be semipermeable. They have to be, for the huge amount of trade we do north and south. With that in mind, with a high concentration of wealth on one side of the membrane, and a high concentration of poor on the other, osmosis will occur due to osmodic pressure....

As for whether we provide illegals with legal representation... that's just part of our system. I wouldn't get too worked up over it.

I haven't decided how I feel about amnesty. I think there may be better ways to approach it, but simply throwing them back over the wall is just maintaining the osmotic pressure. You're going to be constantly fighting a force that will eat at your resources, over and over again.



I concur that we may not be able to keep them ALL out....but I most certainly think we could have kept many of the 20-25 Million that have Illegally entered our country.


So you don't think that our VERY soft approach to maintaining our border to the South along with them knowing full well (ahead of time) that there will essentially be NO repercussions to their actions is the right and only answer to this huge problem?
tonygraz Offline
#10 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 12:12 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,262
So why hasn't congress done anything to change immigration ? This did not start with Obama - tho I'm sure the haters will say it's all his fault.
frankj1 Offline
#11 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 12:22 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Brazillian economy is booming so no reason to come here or stay here.
victor809 Offline
#12 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 12:23 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Businesses profit off of illegal immigrants. Even if you think that they are costing our society, that's a spread cost. From a business side, it's great. You pay little to employ them, but the cost of maintaining them is spread across everyone. win win.

If you want to truly reduce the pressure across a semipermeable membrane, you change the gradient which is causing the osmotic pressure.
If you're looking at an earning situation (ie jobs on one side, no jobs on the other) you ensure that there are no jobs available for them (this would involve actually cracking down on employers of illegal immigrants. Restaurants and bars are HUGE here, as is agriculture.) If you reduce the opportunity to find work, you reduce the pressure across the membrane.
victor809 Offline
#13 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 12:24 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
frankj1 wrote:
Brazillian economy is booming so no reason to come here or stay here.


^ that's the other part of the equation. As the situation on either side gets closer to parity, the pressure reduces.
Speyside Offline
#14 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 12:24 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
We need immigration reform. As the boomers retire there are not enough new people entering the work force. This will harm our economy. The best way to solve this is for more skilled workers to immigrate here.

As far as the undocumented immigrants already here, it makes much more sense for them to be documented for many reasons. The cost to deport them would be extremely expensive. Plus they would end up back here any how. I have not seen a plan to keep them from coming back that I think will work.
DrafterX Offline
#15 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 12:46 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
Trump is gonna build a wall.... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#16 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 12:54 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637

With a cool catapult thingie to throw those that are in here out and to pummel those trying to get in?
DrafterX Offline
#17 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 12:55 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
that's what I heard.... and a golfcart path along the top... Mellow
ZRX1200 Offline
#18 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 12:55 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,615
How many are here and how many Americans are jobless?
Hmmmmm.

We need a system to hold businesses accountable who hire people who are using someone else's SSN#. They will self deport (mostly).

Speyside, what effect do you see this illegal immigration having on middle class wages?
DrafterX Offline
#19 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 12:58 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
let's not get in too big of a hurry.. I still got a guy working on my house... Mellow
dstieger Offline
#20 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 1:15 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I can't seem to get worked up about illegals.

And, I'm amused the way the phrase 'immigration reform' gets tossed about....I have NEVER heard an expression of policy or philosophy related to 'immigration reform' that makes even a little bit of sense to me. "build a wall" doesn't sound like 'immigration reform'...I suppose 'amnesty' might be a reform policy, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to anyone who thinks that laws should generally be obeyed...'path to citizenship' might qualify as a policy or philosophy, I suppose...if defined in a fairly 'simple' way...unfortunately, it can't be defined as such because it always comes down to either "compassionate" or "amnesty"...there's nothing in between.

My personal sense that the only reason that immigration - illegal or otherwise - is such a hot topic is because of voter demographics much more than economic demographics or crime demographics or morality...or....wait...why IS this supposed to be important to me????

There's so many more policy/platform/philosophy 'things' that are more important to me when choosing who to vote for.....I'm a little tired of the immigration 'noise'
dstieger Offline
#21 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 1:18 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
ZRX1200 wrote:

We need a system to hold businesses accountable who hire people who are using someone else's SSN#.




Bingo!!!

Really...do we need any other sort of immigration reform???? Aren't 90+% of working age illegals here because of money and/or work?

Why do we allow employers to employ them? Seems to me that's a fairly straightforward root cause and the area where solutions should be worked.
Brewha Offline
#22 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 1:23 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
We could also try enforcing the laws that are on the book regarding illegal aliens.

Nah – that’d never work…..
TMCTLT Offline
#23 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 1:28 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
tonygraz wrote:
So why hasn't congress done anything to change immigration ? This did not start with Obama - tho I'm sure the haters will say it's all his fault.




Well it seems with his propensity to use his pen and phone.....yes HE could and should do something about this. Instead he's spent taxpayer dollars advertising in Southern a Central America why these people should come here.
It has zero to do with hate and everything to do with him doing his JOB.
DrafterX Offline
#24 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 1:28 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
Brewha wrote:
We could also try enforcing the laws that are on the book regarding illegal aliens.

Nah – that’d never work…..



There's no legacy in that... Not talking
ZRX1200 Offline
#25 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 1:44 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,615
Why doesn't the left feel the same about guns Brewha?
teedubbya Offline
#26 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 1:50 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I think we should have immigration reform. Make it easier to get in legally, and dramatically raise the quotas. We could actually do this separately from addressing those that are already here illegally but will not because behind the cloak of some is the truth that they are really anti immigration and want to claim they are not.
DrafterX Offline
#27 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 1:51 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
I heard if Biden becomes president we all get new shotguns... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#28 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 1:52 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
teedubbya wrote:
I think we should have immigration reform. Make it easier to get in legally, and dramatically raise the quotas. We could actually do this separately from addressing those that are already here illegally but will not because behind the cloak of some is the truth that they are really anti immigration and want to claim they are not.




nobody wears cloaks anymore... Not talking
Brewha Offline
#29 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 1:55 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
ZRX1200 wrote:
Why doesn't the left feel the same about guns Brewha?

Hmmm… Not sure I understand you fully.

Maybe the left thinks building a wall around the guns is silly….
Brewha Offline
#30 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 1:56 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
DrafterX wrote:
nobody wears cloaks anymore... Not talking

Ah, but daggers are back in a BIG WAY!!!!
tailgater Offline
#31 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 1:59 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
Brazillian economy is booming so no reason to come here or stay here.


True.
I've read that most women under 30 have gone Brazilian...
tailgater Offline
#32 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 2:03 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
Businesses profit off of illegal immigrants. Even if you think that they are costing our society, that's a spread cost. From a business side, it's great. You pay little to employ them, but the cost of maintaining them is spread across everyone. win win.

If you want to truly reduce the pressure across a semipermeable membrane, you change the gradient which is causing the osmotic pressure.
If you're looking at an earning situation (ie jobs on one side, no jobs on the other) you ensure that there are no jobs available for them (this would involve actually cracking down on employers of illegal immigrants. Restaurants and bars are HUGE here, as is agriculture.) If you reduce the opportunity to find work, you reduce the pressure across the membrane.


You should record yourself while reading this post.
Then play it when you want nothing more than to hear your own voice.

Meanwhile, this hasn't addressed the question of why illegal immigration has declined over the past 5 years.
Brewha Offline
#33 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 2:03 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
How many is a brazilian?
tailgater Offline
#34 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 2:06 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Speyside wrote:


As far as the undocumented immigrants already here, it makes much more sense for them to be documented for many reasons. The cost to deport them would be extremely expensive. Plus they would end up back here any how. I have not seen a plan to keep them from coming back that I think will work.



So repeat thieves should likewise be given that pesky automobile they've been trying to steal.

I mean, our system doesn't prevent it long term, so we should just give them what they want.

That's a slap in the face to everyone who does things the right way, and it's an embarrassing argument to make.
Fight to find a means to deter them, or simply open the borders.
But NEVER reward those who broke the law to achieve their goal. That's wrong on principle alone.
tailgater Offline
#35 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 2:07 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:
How many is a brazilian?


a hair less than most.
DrafterX Offline
#36 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 2:09 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
Brewha wrote:
How many is a brazilian?



a brazillion = the square root of a brazillion squared... Mellow
tailgater Offline
#37 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 2:11 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
DrafterX wrote:
I heard if Biden becomes president we all get new shotguns... Mellow


I thought it was shoguns.
He has a thing for the orientals, I heard.
Brewha Offline
#38 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 2:12 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
tailgater wrote:
a hair less than most.


I'll buy that for a dollar... ThumpUp
tailgater Offline
#39 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 2:12 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:
Hmmm… Not sure I understand you fully.

Maybe the left thinks building a wall around the guns is silly….


Then only the illegals would have gun walls...
Brewha Offline
#40 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 2:17 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
I suppose we could get the illegals to build the wall and just not tell them they are on the wrong side until it’s done….
tonygraz Offline
#41 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 2:23 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,262
Not a bad idea, Brewha. But they are mostly rapists according to Trump, so they may lack the expertise and desire to build a wall.
tonygraz Offline
#42 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 2:27 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,262
TMCTLT wrote:
... Instead he's spent taxpayer dollars advertising in Southern a Central America why these people should come here.
....



Where did you get that information ?
ZRX1200 Offline
#43 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 2:29 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,615
Brewha, I was talking about your comment "enforce the existing laws"

Trolly, do you know what the % of illegals in federal prison is?
Brewha Offline
#44 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 2:45 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
ZRX1200 wrote:
Brewha, I was talking about your comment "enforce the existing laws"

Trolly, do you know what the % of illegals in federal prison is?

So I looked, and found 36% of federal in mates were illegals. Which means a lot of criminals are also not here legally.

But, I was speaking of laws that prohibit them from being here. And the ability of the law to prosecute those who harbor.
tailgater Offline
#45 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 2:58 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:
So I looked, and found 36% of federal in mates were illegals. Which means a lot of criminals are also not here legally.

But, I was speaking of laws that prohibit them from being here. And the ability of the law to prosecute those who harbor.


Let me 'splain it to ya:


36% of inmates is high, because we're told less than 5% of the population is illegal.
(Tony, that means Trump is more right than you'd like to admit).

And regarding enforcement of laws, Brew, Z is suggesting that if we could simply "enforce existing" immigration laws then we could also simply enforce existing gun laws.
The thought process being that not only could we put a dent in illegal immigration, but also in the illegal use of guns.

And we could all join hands and sing a song that TW writes just for the occasion.
teedubbya Offline
#46 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 3:02 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
cool. I like to write songs.

I hear there is a one to one relationship between the number percent of blacks in federal prisons and the percentage of blacks in the general population as well.

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the reasons the illegals are in the pokie though.
DrafterX Offline
#47 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 3:04 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
teedubbya wrote:

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the reasons the illegals are in the pokie though.



there's the thought of the day.... Think
ZRX1200 Offline
#48 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 3:20 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,615
Well locally here its mostly it's drugs and gang related stuff, but the highlight is the percentage of sex crimes.

Again Mr Trump got something right, anecdotal as it may be as its local here.
tailgater Offline
#49 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 3:26 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
teedubbya wrote:


It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the reasons the illegals are in the pokie though.


Drafter is right.
That's just plain ol' awesome in a Yogi Berra sorta way.
banderl Offline
#50 Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 3:26 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
ZRX1200 wrote:
Brewha, I was talking about your comment "enforce the existing laws"

Trolly, do you know what the % of illegals in federal prison is?



Much is made of the alleged fact that 30 percent of federal prison inmates are illegal immigrants. Actually, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, the correct figure is 14 percent, and many are in just for violating immigration laws. In prisons at the state level, where most violent crime is prosecuted, illegal immigrants account for less than 5 percent of all inmates.

http://www.creators.com/opinion/steve-chapman/illegal-immigrants-not-so-scary.html
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