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99cobra2881 Offline
#51 Posted: Sun, Sep 13 2015, 9:17 PM EST
Joined: 11-19-2013
Posts: 2,472
Frank,
I really wasn't trying to be argumentative or disrespectful, this is a discussion on the internet. I don't try to win, I like to debate the matter at hand and learn something in the process. I really was just asking for a source on the end of sanctions as I hadn't seen this. I didn't mean it like I didn't beleive you but I think you took it that way.

To answer a few of your points.

No I don't want a war with Iran, it's them chanting "death to America" in their streets and sponsoring terrorists in their efforts to destroy the U.S. and Israel that causes me to have a problem with this deal. Maybe it's just posturing like North Korea often does with no real threat of aggression because they know they would get sat the hell back down in a hurry if they cross that line.

Hopefully Iran and the factions they sponsor will remember how the U.S. was galvanized together after 9/11 and think twice before they attack us again. I highly doubt any of that enters into their thought process.

I've been hearing about these progressive western leaning young Iranians for years and have yet to see any change.

Thank you for the reply, here's to hoping this discussion can continue.

Anthony

DrafterX Offline
#52 Posted: Sun, Sep 13 2015, 9:17 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
yep, my doctor is Iranian from Iran and still has family there... he's pretty much family in fact...been to my home many times.. this whole thing is weird for me... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#53 Posted: Sun, Sep 13 2015, 9:19 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
ZRX1200 wrote:
Sad thing is the majority of Iranians are wonderful people, their Mulah Government are a bunch of POS.

Almost like we have something in common.

I'm trying to tap into this too. You can't help but feel without the Regime, the average citizen is looking west.

yeah, I ignored the government comparison, not that I'm happy either.
Gene363 Offline
#54 Posted: Sun, Sep 13 2015, 9:33 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,822
DrafterX wrote:
yep, my doctor is Iranian from Iran and still has family there... he's pretty much family in fact...been to my home many times.. this whole thing is weird for me... Mellow


I worked in an office with an Iranian engineer for about a year, he was a character, ultra paranoid and a funny guy. He said the people of Iran really like us, but not our government.
frankj1 Offline
#55 Posted: Sun, Sep 13 2015, 9:53 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
Gene363 wrote:
I worked in an office with an Iranian engineer for about a year, he was a character, ultra paranoid and a funny guy. He said the people of Iran really like us, but not our government.

will take a bit to overcome our support of The Shah, i suppose.
frankj1 Offline
#56 Posted: Sun, Sep 13 2015, 9:54 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
99cobra2881 wrote:
Frank,
I really wasn't trying to be argumentative or disrespectful, this is a discussion on the internet. I don't try to win, I like to debate the matter at hand and learn something in the process. I really was just asking for a source on the end of sanctions as I hadn't seen this. I didn't mean it like I didn't beleive you but I think you took it that way.

To answer a few of your points.

No I don't want a war with Iran, it's them chanting "death to America" in their streets and sponsoring terrorists in their efforts to destroy the U.S. and Israel that causes me to have a problem with this deal. Maybe it's just posturing like North Korea often does with no real threat of aggression because they know they would get sat the hell back down in a hurry if they cross that line.

Hopefully Iran and the factions they sponsor will remember how the U.S. was galvanized together after 9/11 and think twice before they attack us again. I highly doubt any of that enters into their thought process.

I've been hearing about these progressive western leaning young Iranians for years and have yet to see any change.

Thank you for the reply, here's to hoping this discussion can continue.

Anthony


you read me right, and I am happy to be corrected.

Thanks.
DrafterX Offline
#57 Posted: Sun, Sep 13 2015, 10:11 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
Gene363 wrote:
I worked in an office with an Iranian engineer for about a year, he was a character, ultra paranoid and a funny guy. He said the people of Iran really like us, but not our government.



my friend's parents were wealthy business owners at one time until their gubment took it from them.. makes me wonder how we pick our outrage... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#58 Posted: Sun, Sep 13 2015, 10:40 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
DrafterX wrote:
my friend's parents were wealthy business owners at one time until their gubment took it from them.. makes me wonder how we pick our outrage... Mellow

used to be a simple answer.
teedubbya Offline
#59 Posted: Sun, Sep 13 2015, 10:52 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
One of my good friends and our goalie in college was in the shahs army and had to leave Iran or die after the revolution. I learned a lot from him.

They were our allies until the revolution. Reagan negotiated with and armed the new anti American regime and now folks see them as an eternal enemy that can not be worked with. I just don't think it's simple.

In the meantime Germany, Italy and Japan are our trusted allies.
DrafterX Offline
#60 Posted: Sun, Sep 13 2015, 10:54 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
Think
Gene363 Offline
#61 Posted: Sun, Sep 13 2015, 11:00 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,822
frankj1 wrote:
will take a bit to overcome our support of The Shah, i suppose.


Oh yeah, we would be so much better off if we could go back in time and just mind our one business.
frankj1 Offline
#62 Posted: Sun, Sep 13 2015, 11:06 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
Gene363 wrote:
Oh yeah, we would be so much better off if we could go back in time and just mind our one business.

complicated stuff happens. we ventured into and probably installed more than one dictator, despite our American values, and then can't figure out why those regions hate us.

United Fruit, Exxon...doesn't matter the industry. Beware the Military/Industrial Complex. Weren't we just talking about Ike recently?
Gene363 Offline
#63 Posted: Mon, Sep 14 2015, 12:08 AM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,822
frankj1 wrote:
complicated stuff happens. we ventured into and probably installed more than one dictator, despite our American values, and then can't figure out why those regions hate us.

United Fruit, Exxon...doesn't matter the industry. Beware the Military/Industrial Complex. Weren't we just talking about Ike recently?


Yes, then there is Gulf of Tonkin, Cuba, Honduras, the 1954 Guatemalan coup, oh and Panama used to be part of Columbia to name a few others. Whistle
99cobra2881 Offline
#64 Posted: Mon, Sep 14 2015, 8:30 AM EST
Joined: 11-19-2013
Posts: 2,472
teedubbya wrote:
One of my good friends and our goalie in college was in the shahs army and had to leave Iran or die after the revolution. I learned a lot from him.

They were our allies until the revolution. Reagan negotiated with and armed the new anti American regime and now folks see them as an eternal enemy that can not be worked with. I just don't think it's simple.

In the meantime Germany, Italy and Japan are our trusted allies.


Good read about the Iranian F-14s that the U.S. sold to Iran.

http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/persian-cats-9242012/
ZRX1200 Offline
#65 Posted: Mon, Sep 14 2015, 9:26 AM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,617
I must have forgot, who supported overthrowing the Shah?
teedubbya Offline
#66 Posted: Mon, Sep 14 2015, 9:32 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
That is an interesting read. My friend escaped through Turkey then France and ultimately here. He was infantry if I remember right. One of the nicest most compelling people I've ever met. His family pooled all their cash to get him to safety and he had very little contact with them following. Some in here would not let him in because of his religion. Shameful.


I need to read more about what Reagan sold them during the arms embargo. I think it was mostly missiles. It is interesting it was directly to the radical government put in place after the shah which still exists for the most part to this day.
DrafterX Offline
#67 Posted: Mon, Sep 14 2015, 9:39 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
I think military service in Iran is mandatory... everybody goes but the wealthy have servants to make their beds and stuff.... Mellow
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