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I'm sorry I didn't read every post in this thread.

I don't mind the illiberal lefties complaining about Global Warming or Pollution etc, but they should also admit that breeding more welfare rats exacerbates the situation they pretend they want to fix.
(fun fact: more than 50% of all babies in USA are born on welfare)

Ya can't have it both ways amigos!

psycho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmKzkX5YGPE

the Living Minimum Wage still gets me.... it will never be enough until everybody has a Buick and a 3 bedroom house... what exactly is wrong with getting an education or at least learning a trade..??

Don't those people have any other ambitions.?? even Walmart management..??

Brew.... Why do you assume that people can only work 40hrs per week? If someone can't feed themselves on 40hrs, why would they not get a second job?

If someone can't live on 80hr work weeks, then you might be correct... But to assume that a 40hr standard must be maintained across the board simply isn't correct.

Well Victor, I was not assuming people could only work 40 hours. I was talking to the standard. But you are blowing past the basic issue of you and me subsidizing coporations because of their local monopoly and buying power.

Not to put too fine of a point on it, but them poor folks could do nothing but work - just to put food in their mouths. And they could pull their kids out of school and put them to work. Maybe sell a few drugs on the side and pick a few pockets....you'd be good with that I assume.

You and I are only subsidizing corporations if we choose to give aid to someone earning that amount. You are correct, if someone works 30hrs a week for Walmart and needs food stamps to live, we are subsidizing Walmart wages. On the other hand, if we say "hey, you're only working 30hrs, maybe if you worked another 30 you could afford to eat.... "

I do think people need to be helped at the bottom (at least those who are still trying)... But just requiring companies pay more for labor that isn't worth that value is not going to resolve your problem

You haven't been paying attention.

Wage controls in this case might hurt the working poor more than those evil corporations.

Remember, for a lot of this work, the working poor need that job a lot more than the employer really needs a worker. You make it too expensive, they may walk away.

Think of labor as a good... By fixing the minimum wage, the government is setting a minimum price that good, regardless of quality. Imagine if the government set a minimum price for all cigars of 15$ each. Do you think people would buy any fighting c%cks?

Arn't you supposed to to say "riddle me this"?

Hah... Why would no one be poor? Why would elimination of the poor even be a goal? Talk about shifting the goalposts. The goal should not be to eliminate the poor, but to make sure they don't die on the streets... Or at least not in a place that isn't frequently cleaned.

I'm not in any way saying they're going to pass on a marketplace. But they will pass on certain jobs. This isn't rocket surgery... Every person doing work for someone else is doing a job their employer values at roughly the wage they are paid. Just as every cigar sold here on auction is purchased at a price the purchaser values. People even buy the puros indios on auction... But they don't buy the puros indios at the same price they buy the Fuentes.... If suddenly cigarbid set the minimum auction price for all cigars to the same price the Fuentes were sold at, people would buy more Fuentes and fewer puros... Because they are the same price.

Now look at the labor market.. We have unemployed people of a variety of skill levels. People who's education and skills can get rates of $5/hr up to $250/hr... If you have to pay 15$/hr you are going to look for that level of competence from the employee. You will fire the 5$/hr employees who can't deliver any additional competence and hire people who previously you would never have considered for this job because they were too expensive.

Yes, in the whole, some people who are at the lowest rung will get more money. But I suspect it will do more harm than good.

can't wait until I can go back to digging ditches.

Brew, you're not wrong in the idea that a monopoly situation can create local effects which don't follow a free market. But this goes both ways. We see that same monopoly effects when labor over-organizes into monolithic unions... And tells employers exactly what the price they pay for labor will be. Both can be bad.

One might say that if we are in a situation where there is only one employer in the area, maybe the situation can be helped by improving the mobility of the labor pool, or enhancing the skills of the labor pool so they can diversify their employers? Another question one might ask is just how many locations in the US do you think have only one (or mainly only one) employer? And do you think making a national, sweeping law would really be the best solution to small localized problems?

i cant wait until everyone is magically rich for free

im just really glad we have finally evolved to the point where we can achieve equal opportunity and equal outcomes

what if you just want to go to get drunk and screw off, majoring in minority womens sexuality in latin america 1800-1856?

shouldnt you at least be guaranteed $70k/year?

you know, cause rich people and bigotry and racism and stuff
i mean think of the chilrens...

We will always be stratified as much as do gooders wish we were not. To try to socially engineer it away has never and will never work.

I suppose I deserve all those questions because I illustrated the problem. So it goes….

The issue is that far too many people in the United States live below the poverty line while working full time. People can give all the “boot strap” lectures they like (and people do need to pull themselves up) but it pleads ignorance of a real problem in our economy. I remind you that we have minimum wages laws to keep businesses from running amok:

“No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. ”

— President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 1933

And he was right….

then just move the poverty line and call it good. afterall that is what just throwing money at it will do like it or not. forcing more pay only works in a vacuum and is a simplistic response to a complicated issue.

yea but it makes us feel more gooder because we are "doing something"

Wait - Don't you want to make America great again?




As a foot note, and regards to the OP subject line, I am a liberal - and I tolerate this crap.
Just sayin'

if america is to be great its going to involve a heck of a lot more than that elitist felon or that narcissist with bad hair

Face it Drafter - without a few liberals, this place would be as boring as Lubbock.


- on a Monday night.