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Last post 6 years ago by RMAN4443. 124 replies replies.
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Global warming weather events
Speyside Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Global warming is real. Only an idiot would deny that. How much is man made is a debatable question. How bad is it for planet earth is a debatable question. What we should or should not do about it is a debatable question. One hypothesis I have read regularly is that global warming will cause weather extremes, so hurricanes, tornados, severe cold, draughts, floods, and large snows will be the normal. This all has been happening.
frankj1 Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
MARCO...
delta1 Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,788
...POLO...
HuckFinn Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Kawaksback wrote:
Only idiots think consensus equals science...sheesh...

Really? So if 97 out of 100 doctors diagnose you with cancer you're getting chemo?
HuckFinn Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Or not.
DrafterX Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
The earth is going thru it's normal cycles.. there's nothing we did to cause it or anything we can do to stop it... The earth is a big place... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
delta1 wrote:
...POLO...

seemed easy enough to find you.
Why is tail having difficulty?
Kawaksback Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 12-14-2017
Posts: 48
HuckFinn wrote:
Really? So if 97 out of 100 doctors diagnose you with cancer you're getting chemo?


Thanks, you just made my point...

The late Michael Crichton, MD, author, film producer, put it this way:
“I want to pause here and talk about this notion of consensus, and the rise of what has been called consensus science. I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks. Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you’re being had.

“Let’s be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus. Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus.

“There is no such thing as consensus science. If it’s consensus, it isn’t science. If it’s science, it isn’t consensus. Period.

“In addition, let me remind you that the track record of the consensus is nothing to be proud of”
Phil222 Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
DrafterX wrote:
The earth is going thru it's normal cycles.. there's nothing we did to cause it or anything we can do to stop it... The earth is a big place... Mellow


Source?
Phil222 Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
Kawaksback wrote:
“There is no such thing as consensus science. If it’s consensus, it isn’t science. If it’s science, it isn’t consensus. Period


https://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus.htm
frankj1 Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Kawaksback wrote:
Thanks, you just made my point...

The late Michael Crichton, MD, author, film producer, put it this way:
“I want to pause here and talk about this notion of consensus, and the rise of what has been called consensus science. I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks. Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you’re being had.

“Let’s be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus. Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus.

“There is no such thing as consensus science. If it’s consensus, it isn’t science. If it’s science, it isn’t consensus. Period.

“In addition, let me remind you that the track record of the consensus is nothing to be proud of”

not to be contrary, hell, not even taking a side, but reading the above made me want to ask...

don't the findings of the great scientists who broke with consensus end up becoming consensus if those findings are true?
DrafterX Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
Phil222 wrote:
Source?




I'm Indian.... We know these things... Mellow
Phil222 Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
frankj1 wrote:
not to be contrary, hell, not even taking a side, but reading the above made me want to ask...

don't the findings of the great scientists who broke with consensus end up becoming consensus if those findings are true?


He's qouting a medical doctor. That's like me qouting a mechanic when discussing heart surgery.

I don't care either way and am not well versed on the subject. When I don't know about a subject, I tend to listen to experts in the field. Those who have dedicated their lives to the subject, not science fiction writers/directors.

I would just like to see some evidence that makes me believe that humans have no impact on climate change.
Phil222 Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
DrafterX wrote:
I'm Indian.... We know these things... Mellow


I can live with that...ThumpUp
frankj1 Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Phil222 wrote:
I can live with that...ThumpUp

and there is no word for "lie" in X's native language.
At least that's what I heard.
Ewok126 Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 06-25-2017
Posts: 4,356
DrafterX wrote:
The earth is a big place... Mellow



Blink



What is your basis for comparison?

To a Cosmologist, Astrophysicists, and even to the Janitors at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, the perception is that earth is just a speck of dust.

It is all a matter of perception. Some have the ability to see a bigger picture and some just can't. Some can see the writing on the wall some just can't.

When a cup is half full or half empty with a yellow liquid, do you see a half full or half empty cup of yellow liquid. Me, I see a cup of piss.

Some can keep it real and some can't

and yep that is my .005 worth. Whistle
tailgater Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Phil222 wrote:
What do you think is the best way that we can minimize our influence on the climate?


Your question is based on a false premise.
Our (controllable) influence may or may not be significant in the scheme of things.

Let's focus on renewables because they're, well, renewable.
They're clean, which helps the environment.
And if we allow ingenuity rather than government to dictate their growth, they will probably be more cost effective.

In the meantime the best thing we could do to minimize our impact would be to plant a tree and curb worldwide breeding.

We compare global temperature rise and treat it like all other variables are a constant.
They aren't.

In 1900 the world had about 1.6 Billion people.
Today's climate is dealing with OVER 7 Billion.

Even algore could do that math. If he wanted. And if it would still pad his pocket.






Phil222 Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
So...keep the goverment out of it...plant some trees, and a breeding tax. Roger that.
tailgater Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Phil222 wrote:

I would just like to see some evidence that makes me believe that humans have no impact on climate change.


Has anyone here suggested that humans have zero impact on climate change?

tailgater Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Phil222 wrote:
So...keep the goverment out of it...plant some trees, and a breeding tax. Roger that.


Only because you asked.
But it's not a mantra.
I'm not wearing a shirt with the equivalent of "make love, not war" on it.
Although in hindsight that may have helped to lead us to this current population crisis...

tailgater Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
POLO!
Phil222 Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
tailgater wrote:
Has anyone here suggested that humans have zero impact on climate change?


That was my understanding. Perhaps I misunderstood what they were trying to say.
delta1 Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,788
Even Big Oil has mostly abandoned the fight against the global warming/climate change "consensus." They are in transition, trying to brace themselves against a foreseeable tidal wave of liability. This is foreshadowed in their internal documents which showed their scientists were aware that they impacted global warming, and predicted unusual global warming related weather events that would damage their off-shore oil rigs it they didn't build them taller, so they modified the original designs.

Notice all the good corporate citizen ads by Big Oil companies, boasting about their sustainable energy, environmentally friendly programs? They're trying to influence potential jury pools. More importantly, that's where the bigger profits will be in the future. Petroleum and gas will be less important in meeting the world's energy needs, and because they are astute business organizations, they are jumping in.
DrafterX Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
Windmills suck... Mellow
Speyside Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
The wave of the future will be small Christmas tree shaped wind turbines, about 3 feet all. They work great on flat commercial building roofs, also they work in winds as low as 2 mph if memory serves me right.
DrafterX Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
That would be gay... Mellow
Speyside Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Only in Oklahoma.
DrafterX Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
We burn gas and oil here... Always will... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
And some coal... Mellow
tailgater Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
Even Big Oil has mostly abandoned the fight against the global warming/climate change "consensus." They are in transition, trying to brace themselves against a foreseeable tidal wave of liability. This is foreshadowed in their internal documents which showed their scientists were aware that they impacted global warming, and predicted unusual global warming related weather events that would damage their off-shore oil rigs it they didn't build them taller, so they modified the original designs.

Notice all the good corporate citizen ads by Big Oil companies, boasting about their sustainable energy, environmentally friendly programs? They're trying to influence potential jury pools. More importantly, that's where the bigger profits will be in the future. Petroleum and gas will be less important in meeting the world's energy needs, and because they are astute business organizations, they are jumping in.


And here I thought cynicism was dead.

So now we learn from our friend delta that not only are humans destroying our climate, but we've been knowingly doing it for years in the name of profit. Grandkids be damned.

Global warming: check
Big oil greed: check
corporate malfeasance: check

Hell, you just painted a perfect liberal trifecta.
Now go change your pants and we'll continue this discussion tomorrow.


Herfing
tailgater Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
DrafterX wrote:
We burn gas and oil here... Always will... Mellow


Drill Baby, Drill!

RMAN4443 Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
DrafterX wrote:
Windmills suck... Mellow

No, vacuum cleaners suck........Windmills blowWhistle
DrafterX Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
We do have some in the West part of the state... That's cause Texas sucks and Kansas blows... Laugh
tailgater Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
DrafterX wrote:
And some coal... Mellow


Dig, baby, dig!
tailgater Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Speyside wrote:
The wave of the future will be small Christmas tree shaped wind turbines, about 3 feet all. They work great on flat commercial building roofs, also they work in winds as low as 2 mph if memory serves me right.


My town has some helical shaped turbines.
They spin like the dickens even in moderate winds.
But their energy output hasn't met expectations for some reason.

I like them and hope they can make them work.
They're less intrusive than giant windmills. (only about 15 feet tall).
They're silent (those big wind mills are friggin loud)
DrafterX Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
The tidal turbines are cool tho.... Not sure about how the fishes do around them tho... Mellow
tailgater Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Tidal generators could be a real long term solution.
Wind and solar are dependent on the weather, but the tides are consistent.
frankj1 Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
tailgater wrote:
POLO!

too little
too late
tailgater Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I'd say you've been speaking with my wife, but she says "too little, too soon"...

delta1 Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,788
Clean pants on, reassured and hugged all my grand-kids last night...told them not to buy gas guzzlers like my cars and not to invest their inheritances in oceanfront property...and to accept the apologies of all the deniers...

we've lived this scenario before: world asbestos litigation, air pollution, mercury, Fomoco's Pinto, Big Tobacco...


the discussion about wind energy production by deniers is a hopeful sign...in that vein, we should continue to engage in oil and gas production, especially using safer and cleaner methods like some forward thinking companies in Norway are doing...

as for exploiting untapped reserves...we should have a public debate about all potential outcomes if those reserves are in public areas... like off the coast of populated areas...

HuckFinn Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
From:

https://www.skepticalscience.com/extreme-weather-global-warming-intermediate.htm

While it is very difficult to attribute individual weather events to global warming, we do know that climate change will 'load the dice' and result in more frequent extreme weather events.



From:

https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/human-contribution-to-gw-faq.html#.WlJ1CGhOmf1

Scientists agree that today’s warming is primarily caused by humans putting too much carbon in the atmosphere, like when we choose to extract and burn coal, oil, and gas, or cut down and burn forests.

We know human activities are driving the increase in CO2concentrations because atmospheric CO2 contains information about its source. Scientists can tease apart how much CO2 comes from natural sources, and how much comes from combusted fossil fuel sources.


From:

https://climate.nasa.gov/causes/

The role of human activity

In its Fifth Assessment Report, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a group of 1,300 independent scientific experts from countries all over the world under the auspices of the United Nations, concluded there's a more than 95 percent probability that human activities over the past 50 years have warmed our planet.

The industrial activities that our modern civilization depends upon have raised atmospheric carbon dioxide levels from 280 parts per million to 400 parts per million in the last 150 years. The panel also concluded there's a better than 95 percent probability that human-produced greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide have caused much of the observed increase in Earth's temperatures over the past 50 years.

On Earth, human activities are changing the natural greenhouse. Over the last century the burning of fossil fuels like coal and oil has increased the concentration of atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2). This happens because the coal or oil burning process combines carbon with oxygen in the air to make CO2. To a lesser extent, the clearing of land for agriculture, industry, and other human activities has increased concentrations of greenhouse gases.


Stephen Hawkings in a  BBC interview;

"Climate change is one of the great dangers we face, and it's one we can prevent if we act now. By denying the evidence for climate change, and pulling out of the Paris Climate Agreement, Donald Trump will cause avoidable environmental damage to our beautiful planet, endangering the natural world, for us and our children."

Anyone who has doubts about our UNDENIABLE RESPONSIBILITY  for global-warming should do their own online searches. 

I understand how building and repairing expensive  sea walls appear to be nothing more that political grandstanding (if you don't believe most weather events aren't due to climate change). 

But it's like this; if I'm talking  to a  skeptic and suddenly I see a giant tidal wave fast aproaching behind him, and my screaming " TIDAL WAVE!" doesn't even make him turn around,  just before I take off running I'm gonna point one last time and shout out "FIRE!"

From L.A. Times
As many of the world’s major oil companies — including Exxon, Mobil and Shell — joined a multimillion-dollar industry effort to stave off new regulations to address climate change, they were quietly safeguarding billion-dollar infrastructure projects from rising sea levels, warming temperatures and increasing storm severity.

From the North Sea to the Canadian Arctic, the companies were raising the decks of offshore platforms, protecting pipelines from increasing coastal erosion, and designing helipads, pipelines and roads in a warming and buckling Arctic.
Brewha Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,175
As I recall from another thread, many Cbid players discount all government evidence on GW because of Obama influence. And I reckon the rest is fake news.

Good try though.....
Speyside Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Sheep and lemmings are followers, not thinkers.
delta1 Offline
#94 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,788
#91 welcome to the asylum...fewer nuts to crack now compared to a few years ago...

In the past few years it seems the repetitive exposure of factual info about global warming and climate change coupled with the numbers of oil industry related disasters; revelations of internal acknowledgement of industry caused global warming by Big Oil and their organized disinformation/propaganda campaign; increasing numbers of severe weather events; measurable rise in global temperatures and sea levels; observable reduction of glaciers and melting ice caps; and the cessation of denial propaganda from Big Oil and its supporters as they pivoted to their we're "good corporate citizen" campaigns has muted the noise from deniers here.

Go back through the boards and you'll find much more heated and vociferous debate whenever this topic was raised, mostly from the deny side ... they seem to be losing steam as the world heats up
DrafterX Offline
#95 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
No way man... Not talking
HuckFinn Offline
#96 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
It's futile to try to change anyone's mind.
Anyone who's undecided but concerned should spend some time reading around online.
DrafterX Offline
#97 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
I heard the dinosaurs caused the ice age... Mellow
RMAN4443 Offline
#98 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
DrafterX wrote:
I heard the dinosaurs caused the ice age... Mellow

I heard it was the cold and the ice?Anxious
DrafterX Offline
#99 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
That was s result of the Neanderthals lighting dinosaur farts to stay warm... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#100 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
DrafterX wrote:
That was s result of the Neanderthals lighting dinosaur farts to stay warm... Mellow

hysterical!
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