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Paul Manafort : JUDGE ORDERS HIM DETAINED AND JAILED AFTER HEARING TODAY
HuckFinn Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
RMAN4443 wrote:
so when does it stop? How many are you willing to support? I personally have a limited budget, and my taxes are already pretty high.
I understand how sad it is, but when do you say enough? A million, 5 million,a billion? maybe every tax paying adult should bring an immigrant family into their homes and support them.....when every taxpayer has one, then maybe you bring in another.
Where does the money come from? Your retired right? How much are you contributing from your pocket to support all these non-tax paying immigrants? Brick wall

First generation immigrants cost taxpayers. Second generation add surplus. By a lot.
The jobs they're willing to fill create wealth when compared to other countries. In the final analysis, we benefit.

From the NYT

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/29/opinion/campaign-stops/what-does-immigration-actually-cost-us.html

The US has since the beginning of the 20th century destabilized Latin America. We've invaded, colonized, occupied and meddled with country after country south of our border.
I'm not saying like some do, that we're largely responsible for the failed governments and economies in these countries but now many people are desperate to get the heck away from the chaos.
When is enough enough? I dunno...I do know ripping kids away from their parents sounds like something Boko Haram or the Taliban would advocate. I'm out.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/18/immigration-latin-america_n_5168356.html?slideshow=true#gallery/345888/8
RMAN4443 Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 6,216
HuckFinn wrote:
First generation immigrants cost taxpayers. Second generation add surplus. By a lot.
The jobs they're willing to fill create wealth when compared to other countries. In the final analysis, we benefit.

From the NYT

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/29/opinion/campaign-stops/what-does-immigration-actually-cost-us.html

The US has since the beginning of the 20th century destabilized Latin America. We've invaded, colonized, occupied and meddled with country after country south of our border.
I'm not saying like some do, that we're largely responsible for the failed governments and economies in these countries but now many people are desperate to get the heck away from the chaos.
When is enough enough? I dunno...I do know ripping kids away from their parents sounds like something Boko Haram or the Taliban would advocate. I'm out.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/18/immigration-latin-america_n_5168356.html?slideshow=true#gallery/345888/8

no one is "ripping kids away from their parents", until laws have been broken(and then the parents make the decision as to what happens next)
You never answered the question....how many are you willing to take in and support? How much are you donating or spending to change things?

As I said it's sad, but a line needs to be set(and not like Obama's line)

and I've never invaded,colonized,occupied and meddled with any foreign country.....

These immigrants could go about coming to the US by way of legal means like millions before them, but they are trying to sneak in under cover of night....invade the US , if you will

…..and you should research the Taliban and Boko Haram concerning the outcome of the children they violently separate from their parents
HuckFinn Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
RMAN4443 wrote:
no one is "ripping kids away from their parents", until laws have been broken(and then the parents make the decision as to what happens next)
You never answered the question....how many are you willing to take in and support? How much are you donating or spending to change things?

As I said it's sad, but a line needs to be set(and not like Obama's line)

and I've never invaded,colonized,occupied and meddled with any foreign country.....

These immigrants could go about coming to the US by way of legal means like millions before them, but they are trying to sneak in under cover of night....invade the US , if you will

…..and you should research the Taliban and Boko Haram concerning the outcome of the children they violently separate from their parents

Seems to me you want to win some sort of argument we're supposed to be in (?)

I'm not gonna give you a body count or a dollar amount when I would say enough is enough.

We're both watching the news.

You see criminals paying the high price for breaking the law, I see desperate people who've risked their lives to cross a border because they had no plan B.
For their families and their futures.
DrafterX Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 89,563
They shoulda just gone to the gate... Sorry, no sympathy here... I just see a reason for people to attack Trump as they ignore the obvious reasons the kids aren't with their parents... Mellow
fiddler898 Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,242
No sympathy for 2000+ children being held in cages? You have my sympathy.
DrafterX Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 89,563
how about outrage towards the parents that put them in that situation..... at the kids are getting clothed, feed and receiving medical care... as well as therapy.... maybe that was the plan... Mellow
RMAN4443 Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 6,216
You still have not answered the question. ..how much monetary support are you supplying? How many children/families are you willing to or are housing in your home?
HuckFinn Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
RMAN4443 wrote:
You still have not answered the question. ..how much monetary support are you supplying? How many children/families are you willing to or are housing in your home?

You're right. I'm not answering. It's a ridiculous question.
My home? How about my bed!?

I sympathize with these kids. They're being traumatized.
It's not being handled well.
And history will bear that out. I think it's freaking shameful.

I'd expect my government, not me and my wife, would find a way to process these folks without separating them.

Only a third of Americans agree with you and Trump on this.
Doesn't always mean much to be in the majority but...in this case it does and im grateful for that. Because it seems like a simple matter of humanity and morality.

You prefer putting kids in cages?

If you can live with that, fine. That's your business and I'll try to respect that.
But I ain't gonna lie, I think it's heartless.

delta1 Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 17,952
I respected Laura Bush about as well as I did Barbara Bush. Laura was a school teacher, just as my wife was. Laura Bush said this immigration enforcement policy to separate children from their parents and breaking apart families "is cruel. It is immoral. It breaks my heart"


Steven Miller and John Kelly said many months ago as this policy was being rolled out that it is a considered and intentional decision because it will be a major deterrent to keep immigrant families from coming illegally. This administration has chosen to pursue this course of action as a step in our immigration policies. Some have said it is the moral equivalent of locking up Japanese Americans during WWII, of rounding up and sending American citizens of Mexican heritage on trains to Mexico with one-way tickets in the Depression era 30's...

Now, as then, there are other alternatives, but we choose to do........this...
RMAN4443 Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 6,216
So,what are the other solutions? Wait until the country is full and cannot hold or SUPPORT more illegals?
Doesn't this country already have an overabundance of poor starving children and elderly?
A ten pound sack can't hold much more than 10 pounds before it breaks open and spills out everywhere....you say save the immigrants but you don't want to support the effort with anything more than words...where is your monetary support?....sounds to me like your saying support the children, but not in my neighborhood or with my money....where do you think the money comes from?
Taxes and cutting back on programs for the elderly and mentally
Disabled....instead of just saying stop the. ....quit yer bitch in and offer up a solution....
HuckFinn Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
RMAN4443 wrote:
So,what are the other solutions? Wait until the country is full and cannot hold or SUPPORT more illegals?
Doesn't this country already have an overabundance of poor starving children and elderly?
A ten pound sack can't hold much more than 10 pounds before it breaks open and spills out everywhere....you say save the immigrants but you don't want to support the effort with anything more than words...where is your monetary support?....sounds to me like your saying support the children, but not in my neighborhood or with my money....where do you think the money comes from?
Taxes and cutting back on programs for the elderly and mentally
Disabled....instead of just saying stop the. ....quit yer bitch in and offer up a solution....

Shared detention. Kids with their parents together.
RMAN4443 Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 6,216
HuckFinn wrote:
Shared detention. Kids with their parents together.

So let them all in....?...and support them with your SS check?
frankj1 Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 29,024
HuckFinn wrote:
Shared detention. Kids with their parents together.

thought it was obvious.
RMAN4443 Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 6,216
Anyone here with a sick relative who payed taxes their whole life, but cannot afford their medication and will die because of it? Send the illegals back to their own country, and let's take up a collection for my MIL's meds
frankj1 Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 29,024
RMAN4443 wrote:
So let them all in....?...and support them with your SS check?

people getting sent back/deported aren't just told to leave. There is a legal process, then eventually out the door.
Really no need for such atrocities by a country like ours...unless one is counting on using this as bargaining leverage...which may be worse.
frankj1 Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 29,024
RMAN4443 wrote:
Anyone here with a sick relative who payed taxes their whole life, but cannot afford their medication and will die because of it? Send the illegals back to their own country, and let's take up a collection for my MIL's meds

we aren't saying let them stay, we are talking about families that will be sent back.

RMAN4443 Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 6,216
After how many millions are spent in court? Why not just skip the legal battles and turn them back?
frankj1 Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 29,024
RMAN4443 wrote:
After how many millions are spent in court? Why not just skip the legal battles and turn them back?

I don't know how many millions.

Is it coming from funds already alotted to border security?

Legal battles can be eliminated in many areas, pretty sure if you think about it, you may not feel it's worth the money saved...just to protect the few innocent.

I'd be willing to have money diverted to medicine for your MIL, but then we'd both be called Socialists.
RMAN4443 Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 6,216
frankj1 wrote:
I don't know how many millions.

Is it coming from funds already alotted to border security?

Legal battles can be eliminated in many areas, pretty sure if you think about it, you may not feel it's worth the money saved...just to protect the few innocent.

I'd be willing to have money diverted to medicine for your MIL, but then we'd both be called Socialists.

I've been called worse
HuckFinn Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Seems clear, to me anyway, that Donald decided on this and won't call it off until he's guaranteed his wall.
DrafterX Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 89,563
It's child abuse by the parents.. why would they force their kids to break the law when they coulda just walked up to da gate and asked for entry.. it's only an issue because Pelosi and her followers want it to be... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 89,563
If there was a wall this wouldn't be happening would it... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 29,024
DrafterX wrote:
If there was a wall this wouldn't be happening would it... Mellow

only for the millions that flew in legally and never left.
unless they use a low flying plane.
DrafterX Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 89,563
Catapults..?? Huh
frankj1 Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 29,024
RMAN4443 wrote:
I've been called worse

at my house!
frankj1 Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 29,024
DrafterX wrote:
Catapults..?? Huh

but who sends the last guy?
Mr. Jones Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 10,983
Send them to SWEDEN...

SWEDEN IS NOT A S**T HOLE
DrafterX Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 89,563
I doubt he'd have to wait long... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 89,563
San Francisco needs more refugees... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 17,952
frankj1 wrote:
but who sends the last guy?


he's the one with the long handled loppers...
HuckFinn Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
DrafterX wrote:
If there was a wall this wouldn't be happening would it... Mellow

Mexico is paying for it right?
Must be. Donald swore.

In that case, I'm in.

delta1 Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 17,952
Don't think a wall would be effective...except as a visible Trumpian monument...kinda like the General Lee on horseback statues were erected in cities where blacks were being "subversive" in the 20's and 30's...

Mexicans have shown an ability to dig long tunnels, under solid walls along the CA-Mex border...

Mexico may not pay for our wall, but they may be willing to pay for tunnels under the wall...

How many more illegals are those who came in with visas and never left when their right to stay expired?...that's a much larger number than illegal border crossers on foot...
Speyside Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 8,557
How far should the wall extend into the gulf of Mexico, the gulf of California, and the Pacific ocean? How high into the air should the wall extend? How far into the ground should the wall extend. What should be done with the roughly the thousand miles the wall won't cover?
DrafterX Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 89,563
Landmines.. Mellow
HuckFinn Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Seems likely that the wall would stop a lot of illegal entry. But the cost to build is crazy. And yearly maintenance estimated at over 100 million. Plus any wall would probably being easy to get around. There'll be digging under it, complex tunnel systems likely, climbing the fence using wire cutters to remove barbed-wire and locating and digging holes in vulnerable sections. Not 100% effective but worth the cost? Nope.

Many illegals snuck in by boat through the Gulf of Mexico or the Pacific Coast or just flew in and overstayed their visas. Build that dome!

I'd like to see a referendum. Wonder what the majority of Americans think. Wall anyone?

Plus conservationists claim it'll disrupt wildlife refuges and private sanctuaries besides breaking laws like the Endangered Species Act and the National Environmental Policy Act.

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free but not now and dear lord, not theeeese freaking people!.”



Like i said if Mexico's payin'? Why not. Screw the wildlife.


RMAN4443 Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 6,216
HuckFinn wrote:
Seems likely that the wall would stop a lot of illegal entry. But the cost to build is crazy. And yearly maintenance estimated at over 100 million. Plus any wall would probably being easy to get around. There'll be digging under it, complex tunnel systems likely, climbing the fence using wire cutters to remove barbed-wire and locating and digging holes in vulnerable sections. Not 100% effective but worth the cost? Nope.

Many illegals snuck in by boat through the Gulf of Mexico or the Pacific Coast or just flew in and overstayed their visas. Build that dome!

I'd like to see a referendum. Wonder what the majority of Americans think. Wall anyone?

Plus conservationists claim it'll disrupt wildlife refuges and private sanctuaries besides breaking laws like the Endangered Species Act and the National Environmental Policy Act.

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free but not now and dear lord, not theeeese freaking people!.”



Like i said if Mexico's payin'? Why not. Screw the wildlife.



Yeah,we've already established, you don't want to pay for anything to do with it....you just want to bitch about it...
HuckFinn Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
RMAN4443 wrote:
Yeah,we've already established, you don't want to pay for anything to do with it....you just want to bitch about it...

Like most everyone here, yeah, I do like my bitchin'

I am against the wall idea. You like it? I don't.

This isnt the Roman Empire or China or Berlin. Is it?

The 21st century and a wall is the best we can come up with?
Probably because Donald wants Trump in big gold letters on it somewhere.

If the issue of illegal immigration is as bad as some would have us think, (despite the fact that every year the numbers decrease) then beef up security. Spend money on high tech cameras, add military personnel, drones, whatever.

Spend my money that way.

Besides, who's gonna paint it?
DrafterX Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 89,563
I know a guy... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 86,141
DrafterX wrote:
I "know" a guy... Mellow




I bet you "know" lots of guys
frankj1 Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 29,024
DrafterX wrote:
I know a guy... Mellow

you want I should "hire a painter"?
DrafterX Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 89,563
No, that's ok... They'll prolly stucco it.. Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 86,141
DrafterX wrote:
No, that's ok... They'll prolly stucco it.. Mellow



Freak
DrafterX Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 89,563
Mellow
delta1 Offline
#94 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 17,952
RMAN4443 wrote:
Yeah,we've already established, you don't want to pay for anything to do with it....you just want to bitch about it...



well....Trump's Wall ...isn't in the budget...and will cost between $20 Billion to $40 Billion (depending on materials/labor and who is doing the estimate)...you think we tax-payers should give back the few bucks we got from Trump's tax-cut...maybe we should all dig into our pockets a little deeper?

Maybe we should ask big US businesses to give back some of the bigger tax cut they got last year? No wait, they like having cheap illegal laborers...
DrafterX Offline
#95 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 89,563
We're just going to quit giving money away to countries that send people thru our southern border... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#96 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 17,952
but ... wouldn't that would make things worse in those countries...and if things get worse, wouldn't more people in those countries do horrible things to other people there....forcing some of those people to wanna leave and go somewhere else ...
DrafterX Offline
#97 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 89,563
Prolly.. but we'll have a wall.. Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#98 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 86,141
Trump needs to do a better job of having Mexico pay for it. He seems to ignore that part.
DrafterX Offline
#99 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 89,563
How much is not having a wall costing us..?? Huh
DrafterX Offline
#100 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 89,563
Hey TW, do you get a free watch when you adopt a Mexican refugee..?? Huh
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