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Last post 5 hours ago by frankj1. 30 replies replies.
NYT Op Ed: Voting by Mail Is Crucial for Democracy
rfenst Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 31,546
For a man who votes by mail himself, Donald Trump is strangely obsessed with the idea that it is the most dangerous method of casting a ballot.

The president was at it again this week. “Rigged Election,” he tweeted of New York’s well-publicized struggles with counting mail-in votes. “Same thing would happen, but on massive scale, with USA.”

Voting by mail is a “catastrophic disaster,” he later said, “an easy way for foreign countries to enter the race.” Any election conducted by mail would be “INACCURATE AND FRAUDULENT.”

Finally, the hammer: “Delay the Election until people can properly, securely and safely vote???”

In a word, Mr. President: No.

NYT
DrMaddVibe Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 48,700
Perhaps the President got the idea from someone wanting to reclaim their time?

https://nypost.com/2020/05/27/jerry-nadler-warned-of-possible-paper-ballot-fraud-in-2004/

I'll be casting my vote in person.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEPjWTglBqY
ZRX1200 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 52,303
Robert it does contribute to fraud.
Speyside Online
#4 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 10,700
This isn't even a debatable action. Follow the law!!!
Gene363 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 25,126
Funny, the ballot box worked for past elections, but people , some of which have an inordinate hate for the current administration, want to change to mail in ballots, things that make you say hummm.

At this time we have a Priority Mail package that has been in the mail for 11 days and between two POs for for 6 days. The PO is not what it used to be.
ZRX1200 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 52,303
Funny is Obama standing in a room full of people telling them we need mail in balloting because standing in a room full of people is dangerous.

Glad to see the hypocrisy with the half white guy isn’t dead.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 48,700
ZRX1200 wrote:
Funny is Obama standing in a room full of people telling them we need mail in balloting because standing in a room full of people is dangerous.

Glad to see the hypocrisy with the half white guy isn’t dead.



But wait...at a funeral service that normal Americans are forbidden to have.

Still here?

The mayor just exempted all attendees of the event from self-quarantine guidelines.

Yeah.
rfenst Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 31,546
ZRX1200 wrote:
Robert it does contribute to fraud.

So what, if the fraud isn't enough to alter the results.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 48,700
rfenst wrote:
So what, if the fraud isn't enough to alter the results.



Did you watch the YouTube vid I posted?

3%.
rfenst Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 31,546
Gene363 wrote:
Funny, the ballot box worked for past elections, but people , some of which have an inordinate hate for the current administration, want to change to mail in ballots, things that make you say hummm.

At this time we have a Priority Mail package that has been in the mail for 11 days and between two POs for for 6 days. The PO is not what it used to be.


Like Bob Dylan sung: Times they are a changin'.
Mail in ballots will result in more people voting. That's a good thing, no matter how they vote.
MACS Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 68,608
If you won the lottery... would you sign the ticket and mail it in? Or would you deliver it in person?

Why? Now remember that.

(Victor will be along shortly to tell me how stupid that is...)
tonygraz Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 13,651
If for some reason you could not deliver that lottery ticket in person by the expiration date, would you just throw it in the trash ?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 48,700
If only one had relatives or friends that would give a ride to claim the prize.


Maybe someone could invent a ride sharing company. I'd imagine they'd be popular with some.
BuckyB93 Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 8,760
I wasn't going to my lottery ticket but I'll give it to you for a case of Bud Dry and a carton of smokes.
Gene363 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 25,126
rfenst wrote:
Like Bob Dylan sung: Times they are a changin'.
Mail in ballots will result in more people voting. That's a good thing, no matter how they vote.


Only if they are allowed to vote just once, legally and the pipeline to the counting collection point it secure. The integrity of the voting process is critical, anything that dilutes or reduces that integrity is detrimental and leads to a lack of confidence in government. The voting process must have sunshine on the entire process, save identification of the individual voters choices.

With voting machines/paper ballots there are a lot of witnesses in many locations that maintain sunshine on the process. In addition, the individual voter must show up in person with identification, not drop one or one thousand ballots into an unattended mailbox. We have long established absentee voting procedures in place for those that cannot get to a polling place, I do not believe the potential, IMO small, prospect of more voters is balanced out by the reduction of confidence in the voting process.
frankj1 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 34,736
Trump lives in fear of losing, sometimes that has meant weaseling out of the payment end of contracts...
Always it means blaming others whether deserved or not.
This often means setting up excuses in advance, and hoping to tweak things in his favor. Or strong arm them.

Tantrum over losing the popular vote to Clinton, preceded by pre-excuses that leveled charges that were groundless.
Dragged them up later to "prove" he was right (he wasn't).

Claiming the Mexican ancestry of a US born judge meant he couldn't get a fair trial.

and on and on and on...

And now claiming for months that mail voting would be an atrocity (though he does it).
There is absolutely nothing to support yet another typical set up to cast blame for a feared loss by Trump...
where are the chaotic situations about which he is spreading fear? don't bother googling.

here's my well formulated conspiracy theory that has been in the crock pot for a while and appears to be ready to consume by the blind faith band:

After setting the stage by trashing it relentlessly, Trump appointed a massive money donor and supporter to run the Post Office, despite zero experience in the industry.

Mail has slowed considerably since. Employees are told to punch out no matter how busy, no paid overtime, end delivery routes no matter how much is left on the truck, sorting machines have had running times cut back!!!, blah blah blah...all while many employees bravely killed themselves due to virus related personnel shortages.

A system that certainly had money problems but almost all would agree got chit delivered as promised better than UPS et al has now been physically handicapped in an effort (conspiracy theory time) to discredit its ability to handle mail-in ballots!

He hired this guy with this dastardly goal in mind...force failure on USPS to provide cover if I lose...cuz he knew mail-in was coming
If I win it's because I overcame the devil, if I lose I can point fingers and say I told you so.

It's a set up.

The more things change the more Trump remains the same.
HockeyDad Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 38,648
We will send mail in ballots to everyone In California. I have no idea who has lived in my house prior to me and is still registered to vote. It’s like Christmas. I’m getting presents but I don’t know how many.
tonygraz Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 13,651
I would expect that only registered voters can get a mail-in or absentee ballot.
ZRX1200 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 52,303
Yup.....illegal aliens and dead people included.

#checkingvoterrollsisracist
Whistlebritches Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 19,375
The main reason dems are so enthusiastic about mail in voting is because it circumvents the voter ID laws they have loathed since day 1.If even 50% of illegals swung right of center you'd be hearing a completely different argument from the left.I hear dems automatically get 100% of the deceased vote...........so y'all got that going for you.
frankj1 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 34,736
unfounded fears.
Evidence?
History of claimed abuse?

second request...
Can Trump back up his claims?
Whistlebritches Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 19,375
frankj1 wrote:
unfounded fears.
Evidence?
History of claimed abuse?



Well here's one and it's in Trump's favor...................still reprehensible.I hope this **** er loses his voting privileges for life and spends some quality time in the gray bar hotel.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/07/10/west-virginia-mail-carrier-guilty-election-fraud-altered-ballot-requests/5412010002/

frankj1 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 34,736
if everyone wanted to be honest, the fear from the right is that if everyone eligible to vote did so, and it was at least 98.2% legit, Dems would win the POTUS race.

all the rest is unfounded white noise.
Whistlebritches Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 19,375
frankj1 wrote:
if everyone wanted to be honest, the fear from the right is that if everyone eligible to vote did so, and it was at least 98.2% legit, Dems would win the POTUS race.

all the rest is unfounded white noise.



More voter id fear Frank??? It is not voter suppresion to have one prove they are indeed who they claim to be and I for one have never heard a compelling argument in opposition of this law.

If you believe in Biden.....cough....snort.....wheeze.....fart.......he should win the POTUS race
rfenst Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 31,546
Another perspective:

Black voters reluctant to mail it in
Mistrust of mail-in voting outweighs fear of pandemic

Associated Press
DETROIT — Despite fears the coronavirus pandemic will worsen, Victor Gibson said he’s not planning to take advantage of Michigan’s expanded vote-by-mail system when he casts his ballot in November.

The retired teacher from Detroit just isn’t sure he can trust it. Many Black Americans share similar concerns and are planning to vote in person on Election Day, even as mail-in voting expands to more states as a safety precaution.

For many, historical skepticism of a system that tried to keep Black people from the polls and worries that a mailed ballot won’t get counted outweigh the prospect of long lines and health dangers from a virus that’s disproportionately affected communities of color. Ironically, suspicion of mail-in voting aligns with the views of President Donald Trump, whom many Black voters want out of office.

Trump took it a step further last week, suggesting a “delay” to the Nov. 3 presidential election — which would take an act of Congress — as he made unsubstantiated allegations in a tweet that increased mail-in voting will result in fraud.

“I would never change my mind” about voting in person in November, said Gibson, who is Black and hopes Trump loses. “I always feel better sliding my ballot in.”

Decades of disenfranchisement are at the heart of the uneasy choice facing Black voters, one of the Democratic Party’s most important voting groups. Widespread problems with mail-in ballots during this year’s primary elections have added to the skepticism when making Black voices heard has taken on new urgency during a national reckoning over racial injustice.

Patricia Harris of McDonough, Georgia, voted in person in the primary and said she will do the same in November.
“I simply do not trust mail-in or absentee ballots,” said Harris, 73, a retired event coordinator at Albany State University. “After the primary and the results were in, there were thousands of absentee ballots not counted.”

In Georgia, roughly 12,500 mail-in ballots were rejected in the state’s June primary, while California tossed more than 100,000 absentee ballots during its March primary.

Reasons vary, from ballots being received after the deadline to voters’ signatures not matching the one on file with the county clerk. Multiple studies show mail-in ballots from Black voters, like those from Latino and young voters, are rejected at a higher rate than those of white voters.

In Wisconsin’s April primary, thousands of voters in Milwaukee said they didn’t receive absentee ballots in time and had to vote in person. Lines stretched several blocks, and people waited two hours or more.

In Kentucky’s June primary, more than 8,000 absentee ballots were rejected in Jefferson County, which includes Louisville.
Many people in Louisville’s historically Black West End neighborhood voted in person because they didn’t receive an absentee ballot or simply wanted to vote in a way familiar to them, said Arii Lynton-Smith, an organizer with Black Lives Matter Louisville.

“That’s particularly why we knew we had to have the poll rides as an option,” she said, referring to groups offering voters free transportation to polling places. “It’s not as easy to do an absentee ballot and the things that come along with it than it is to just go in person.

Mistrust by Black voters runs deep and is tightly bound within the nation’s dark past of slavery and institutional racism.
Black people endured poll taxes, tossed ballots, even lynchings by whites intent on keeping them from voting. Over the decades, that led to a deep suspicion of simply handing off a ballot to the post office. Black people were the demographic least likely to cast votes by mail in 2018, with only 11% using that method, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. By comparison, 24% of whites and 27% of Latinos reported voting by mail that year.

“For Black folks, voting is almost like a social pride because of the way they were denied in the past,” said Ben Barber, a researcher and writer for the Institute for Southern Studies in Durham, North Carolina.

Among the places where Black voters say they have had to overcome institutional obstacles is Shelby County, Tennessee, which includes Memphis. In the past, voters have received ballots for the wrong district, and groups have sued to challenge the security of electronic voting machines, invalidation of voter registration forms and failure to open polling places near predominantly Black neighborhoods.

The Rev. Earle Fisher, senior pastor at Abyssinian Missionary Baptist Church in Memphis and a prominent Black civil rights activist, is one of the plaintiffs in a state lawsuit calling for mail-voting access for everyone. He said he’s not pushing his community to vote by mail but wants to ensure it’s an option, given the health dangers.

To ease doubts, he wants voters to be able to drop off their ballot at a polling place so they won’t have to worry about the post office delivering it on time.

“I would like to see every righteous and creative method and measure taken, but we are up against a voter suppression apparatus that oftentimes is orchestrated by, or at least sustained by, people who are elected or appointed to office,” Fisher said.

Trump has made it clear that he believes widespread mail-in voting would benefit Democrats. He has falsely alleged — that it will lead to massive fraud, and the Republican National Committee has budgeted $20 million to fight Democratic lawsuits in at least 18 states aimed at expanding voting by mail.

The extent to which Black voters adopt it in November is likely to be dictated by the coronavirus. As infections surge, there are signs more Black voters may be willing to consider the option. In Detroit, for example, about 90,000 requests for mail-in ballots have been made so far — the most ever, City Clerk Janice Winfrey said.

How well the option is promoted also is important. In 2018, Democrat Stacey Abrams’ campaign mailed 1.6 million absentee ballot requests to Georgia voters during her unsuccessful bid for governor, emphasizing it was a safe, easy way to vote.

Record numbers of Black voters voted by mail in that election. That shows they will embrace the process if they hear from friends and family that it works, said Lauren Groh-Wargo, Abrams’ campaign manager.

NAACP President Derrick Johnson praised how Abrams was able to bridge that gap but said this year is different. The model can’t be replicated nationwide before Nov. 3, he said.

“Stacey did a good job in the four years leading up to 2018 to build out a program to get it done,” Johnson said. “The runway between now and November isn’t long enough to get it done.”
frankj1 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 34,736
Whistlebritches wrote:
More voter id fear Frank??? It is not voter suppresion to have one prove they are indeed who they claim to be and I for one have never heard a compelling argument in opposition of this law.

If you believe in Biden.....cough....snort.....wheeze.....fart.......he should win the POTUS race

I'd get an ID if required. I would. There has never been a reason to think it would matter, but I'd do it., but no one can say with a straight face that there haven't been several ways to try to suppress voting over the years, all by the GOP, and that should lead to an obvious answer as to why...and as rfenst says, wouldn't it be for the best if all eligible voters exercised that power?
Who's against that...? HA!

ID's wouldn't make things any safer than now, but I have no argument against wasting the money. How about if Town Hall contacts registered voters that are in remote areas and/or without transportation, like the way the DMV renews drivers licenses? Or mail stickers to put on drivers licenses, or on insurance cards, or on social security cards, or just mail cards to everyone registered to vote.

But no one can list even one known large scale case of election fraud in our history. This will be my third request. So clearly there isn't any well known election, certainly any time recently, that people can point to or we'd all know about it for years...perhaps a scan of all elections could turn up something?

And every single case of an individual voting improperly (more than once, for someone else) has not shown it to favor either party, and has not swung an election....despite lots of wink wink stuff of those who claim to know. And there may have been as many as a couple dozen last time. I've only read about two convictions, both voted Trump. No scandal. Just ironic.

Just got my mail in application last week.
Pretty sure, despite comments of others, that they are not being mailed to every address in the state but rather to every registered voter in the state. Got one in my name, one in my wife's name, that was it.
Checked with friends and neighbors...same for them.

Return addresses were to the towns in which each person lives. So far, the process seems to know who is registered in each residence...

It doesn't have to be permanent, but this year is not normal. We can not reschedule this. Plan B is an historically proven safe method.

how does the military handle voting for everyone in the armed forces all over the world?
HockeyDad Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 38,648
frankj1 wrote:
But no one can list even one known large scale case of election fraud in our history. This will be my third request. So clearly there isn't any well known election, certainly any time recently, that people can point to or we'd all know about it for years...perhaps a scan of all elections could turn up something?


I know right...that’s just how good they are at the voter fraud!
HockeyDad Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 38,648
California’s governor created an executive order to mail ballots to all registered voters at their last known address. He was sued for overreach and lost. The legislature then wrote a law for it. I’ll let you know how many ballots I get!
frankj1 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 34,736
HockeyDad wrote:
California’s governor created an executive order to mail ballots to all registered voters at their last known address. He was sued for overreach and lost. The legislature then wrote a law for it. I’ll let you know how many ballots I get!

are you getting ballot(s), or application(s) to receive a ballot/ballots?
frankj1 Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 34,736
HockeyDad wrote:
I know right...that’s just how good they are at the voter fraud!

ancient liberal secret...ssshhh.
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