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Money, Banking and the Economy
rfenst Offline
#151 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 35,007
Could you at least enjoy yourself until then.
bgz Offline
#152 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 10,988
RayR wrote:
That's exactly the issue with inflation, with a monetary system based on a central bank cartel and especially one that has made the monetary system completely fiat, the scam relies on inflating the money supply and artificially manipulating interest rates. It becomes an endless supply of bailouts for the government and its cronies so they can keep spending and amassing debt without restraint
They've sold the public that inflation is normal, which it is not in an honest monetary system. They try to keep their inflation targets low enough that the proles won't recognize they are getting slowly cooked as the elites are getting richer. They have even convinced people, even people that should know better, that the FED is essential to a capitalist economic system. No con can go on forever, sooner or later it's going to end badly.


In an "honest" monetary system most people would be broke af... history has proven that.

It shouldn't tell you there's a problem with the system... it should tell you there's an inherent problem with the concept of "money".

rfenst Offline
#153 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 35,007
bgz wrote:
In an "honest" monetary system most people would be broke af... history has proven that.
It shouldn't tell you there's a problem with the system... it should tell you there's an inherent problem with the concept of "money".

In what sense is there an inherent problem with money, Ben?
Smooth light Offline
#154 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,459
They want it all, and ration it out to you, what a joke.
RayR Offline
#155 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 3,591
bgz wrote:
In an "honest" monetary system most people would be broke af... history has proven that.

It shouldn't tell you there's a problem with the system... it should tell you there's an inherent problem with the concept of "money".



Ya, well I'd like to know when in history when there was an honest monetary system that most people were broke af?
So when people could count on a dollar always being worth a dollar and prices were either stable or even decreasing in a capitalist economy people were getting poorer?



bgz Offline
#156 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 10,988
RayR wrote:
Ya, well I'd like to know when in history when there was an honest monetary system that most people were broke af?
So when people could count on a dollar always being worth a dollar and prices were either stable or even decreasing in a capitalist economy people were getting poorer?





Inflationary currency works better with entropy than deflationary currency.

Deflationary currency works in a way where you are able to work and hoard. Holding puts demand on the short supplied currency... work stutters, energy production slows down.

Inflationary currency promotes encouraging more work to be put into the system, so people can't just work and hodl and expect their savings to have the same buying power 20 years from now that it does today.

It's a more effective solution. You can still hodl gold if you want... nothing is stopping you from doing that.
rfenst Offline
#157 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 35,007
RayR wrote:
Ya, well I'd like to know when in history when there was an honest monetary system that most people were broke af?
So when people could count on a dollar always being worth a dollar and prices were either stable or even decreasing in a capitalist economy people were getting poorer?

If there has never been an "honest monetary system, why would you expect one in the U.S. right now? Go with the flow. "Buy your ticket and take your ride." Might as well make the best of the system what we are stuck with.
rfenst Offline
#158 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 35,007
bgz wrote:
Inflationary currency works better with entropy deflationary currency.
Deflationary currency works in a way where you are able to work and hoard. Holding puts demand on the short supplied currency... work stutters, energy production slows down.
Inflationary currency promotes encouraging more work to be put into the system, so people can't just work and hodl and expect their savings to have the same buying power 20 years from now that it does today.
It's a more effective solution. You can still hold gold if you want... nothing is stopping you from doing that.

Perhaps ,one should review the historical appreciation of gold before investing in it.
bgz Offline
#159 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 10,988
I hopped off at 2k several years ago... not sure where it's at now... or 19xx something is more accurate.
rfenst Offline
#160 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 35,007
[b
bgz wrote:
]WSJ[/b]
Inflationary currency works better with entropy deflationary currency.
Deflationary currency works in a way where you are able to work and hoard. Holding puts demand on the short supplied currency... work stutters, energy production slows down.
Inflationary currency promotes encouraging more work to be put into the system, so people can't just work and hodl and expect their savings to have the same buying power 20 years from now that it does today.
It's a more effective solution. You can still hold gold if you want... nothing is stopping you from doing that.

Perhaps, one should review the historical appreciation of gold before investing in it.
See http://www.cigarbid.com/...ast-50-Years-Teaches-Us

Quote:
WSJ
Bullion’s performance over the past 50 years relative to stocks, bonds and inflation
Even though the price of gold is 50 times as high as in 1971, stocks have performed even better. The S&P 500 has produced an annualized return of 11.2% since August 1971, assuming dividends were reinvested along the way. That compares with 8.2% annualized for gold.

Furthermore, the only reason gold came even this close to matching stocks over the past 50 years was its huge return during the first decade following Nixon’s announcement. Take away that decade, and gold has lagged behind even intermediate-term Treasury notes. Over the past 40 years, gold has risen at a 3.6% annualized rate, compared with 12.2% for the S&P 500 and 8.2% for the Treasurys.

This doesn’t mean gold has no role to play in a diversified portfolio, however, even assuming the future will be like the past. Because the correlation of its returns with those of either equities or bonds has often been low or even negative, its presence in a portfolio can reduce volatility. Over the past 50 years, a stock-and-bond portfolio could have improved its risk-adjusted performance by adding a small allocation to gold—around 5% or so.

Still, even gold’s volatility-reducing potential isn’t guaranteed, since gold’s correlation with stocks has varied widely over the years. In fact, there have been occasions in which gold’s correlation to the stock market has been positive, which is just the opposite of what it should be to reduce a portfolio’s risk.
RayR Offline
#161 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 3,591
I get it. All you economic fascists and commies hate the idea of honest money. Hard money that keeps the gubment and its cronies out of as much mischief as possible and protects the buying power of the earning of the people.
That's the purpose of hard money, honest money...it's not about commodities like gold as an investment, it's about protecting the buying power of the currency you own so that you can make investments. Has holding your paper script in a savings account or under your mattress reaped you investment rewards? No...it's gone negative and lost you buying power.
Of course, I don't read chitty newspaper articles that explain to me why we should put our faith in worthless paper with dead presidents on it. Your ignorance of history is appalling.

Robert says "Buy your ticket and take your ride." Might as well make the best of the system what we are stuck with." In other words, screw your kids and grandkids who will feel the pain for you getting your now. Support the progtard status quo!. The FED banksters and your shameless pols thank you.

Ben just lives in the Matrix, whatever the Matrix tells him is real is his reality. The Matrix tells him "we'll debase your money, so just work harder slave, try to catch up if you can with us plundering you through the decades as we laugh at you hamsters on a treadmill"

bgz Offline
#162 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 10,988
RayR wrote:
I get it. All you economic fascists and commies hate the idea of honest money. Hard money that keeps the gubment and its cronies out of as much mischief as possible and protects the buying power of the earning of the people.

That's the purpose of hard money, honest money...it's not about commodities like gold as an investment, it's about protecting the buying power of the currency you own so that you can make investments.



You can invest in all the "honest money" you want. Nothing stopping you... as mentioned above. Hell, I would buy me some honest money if it would ever take a healthy sh*t...

Think of "money" aka "usd" as a metric. What ever you're trading, that's what you use to determine whether you made "money" or lost "money".

You can use anything as a metric that you choose.

There's nothing stopping you.

RayR wrote:

Has holding your paper script in a savings account or under your mattress reaped you investment rewards? No...it's gone negative and lost you buying power.


Why the f*ck would you put money under your mattress and expect it to grow?

It's not a f*ckin' bean stalk.

Put a meatball sandwich under there, tell me how that works out for you.

RayR wrote:

Of course, I don't read chitty newspaper articles that explain to me why we should put our faith in worthless paper with dead presidents on it. Your ignorance of history is appalling.

Robert says "Buy your ticket and take your ride." Might as well make the best of the system what we are stuck with." In other words, screw your kids and grandkids who will feel the pain for you getting your now. Support the progtard status quo!. The FED banksters and your shameless pols thank you.

Ben just lives in the Matrix, whatever the Matrix tells him is real is his reality. The Matrix tells him "we'll debase your money, so just work harder slave, try to catch up if you can with us plundering you through the decades as we laugh at you hamsters on a treadmill"



Yep... put in the work, get paid... isn't that the American way?

If you stop putting in work... and you stop contributing... and you put your cash under a mattress, well... you get what you get.

That's our world

Sounds to me like you're the one in the matrix... the first version... the nice happy utopia one.

The world we live in has monsters in it... big scary f*ckin monsters that want to get that loot.
Brewha Offline
#163 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 10,075
Bgz, he might be interested in that swamp land in New Jersey that you’re willing to let go for a steal.
To a friend, I mean.

bgz Offline
#164 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 10,988
Nah... he made it clear he don't like lizard people.
Smooth light Offline
#165 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,459
Come on man,buy a couple of slaves. That's how to get money to work for you 🤣🤣🤣.
Brewha Offline
#166 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 10,075
bgz wrote:
Nah... he made it clear he don't like lizard people.

What’s not to like?
rfenst Offline
#167 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 35,007
Ray,

You are clueless in the real world.
Go walk around with a pocket full of gold coins. You will feel much better.
Brewha Offline
#168 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 10,075
I can recommend the perfect neighborhood for the walk….
RayR Offline
#169 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 3,591
rfenst wrote:
Ray,

You are clueless in the real world.
Go walk around with a pocket full of gold coins. You will feel much better.


I sure would like to, gold coins signify a real store of wealth.
You can walk around with your worthless base metal coins.
Then we'll see who's clueless.
Brewha Offline
#170 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 10,075
We already see……
RayR Offline
#171 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 3,591
Brewha wrote:
Bgz, he might be interested in that swamp land in New Jersey that you’re willing to let go for a steal.
To a friend, I mean.



Not interested, New Jersey has high swampland taxes. Besides I heard the Jersy Devil is your real daddy and lives in that swamp.👿
Brewha Offline
#172 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 10,075
RayR wrote:
Not interested, New Jersey has high swampland taxes. Besides I heard the Jersy Devil is your real daddy and lives in that swamp.👿

At least I know who my father is….
rfenst Offline
#173 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 35,007
RayR wrote:
I sure would like to, gold coins signify a real store of wealth.
You can walk around with your worthless base metal coins.
Then we'll see who's clueless.

Better yet, why not then walk around with a bag full of different size gold nuggets for your purchases?

My "worthless" coins and "no good" paper money (LOL) are good for purchases all over the world. What day to day merchants accept gold for purchases here or elsewhere?

Again, this is about the real world we live in.
Brewha Offline
#174 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 10,075
Only for some…
RayR Offline
#175 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 3,591
rfenst wrote:
Better yet, why not then walk around with a bag full of different size gold nuggets for your purchases?

My "worthless" coins and "no good" paper money (LOL) are good for purchases all over the world. What day to day merchants accept gold for purchases here or elsewhere?

Again, this is about the real world we live in.


Don't be a douchenozzle, the gold has to be minted into a coin or token with a known weight and purity.
Precious metals like gold and silver are fungible. You can easily exchange them for funny money if you really needed to with any coin dealer or precious metals dealer. But hell ya, I'd take them in a heartbeat as payment.
You mean you'd stick your nose up in the air and say, "I can't accept that as real money..IT DOESN'T SAY IT'S LEGAL TENDER ON IT".LOL LOL LOL


RayR Offline
#176 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 3,591
Brewha wrote:
At least I know who my father is….


Ah!! So you admit the Jersy Devil is your daddy. I knew there was something Satanic about you.
rfenst Offline
#177 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 35,007
RayR wrote:
Don't be a douchenozzle, the gold has to be minted into a coin or token with a known weight and purity.
Precious metals like gold and silver are fungible. You can easily exchange them for funny money if you really needed to with any coin dealer or precious metals dealer. But hell ya, I'd take them in a heartbeat as payment.
You mean you'd stick your nose up in the air and say, "I can't accept that as real money..IT DOESN'T SAY IT'S LEGAL TENDER ON IT".LOL LOL LOL

Known weight and quantity will still cause significant swings in the value of your gold, even if minted by a government. The volatility on a day to day basis, is much greater than inflation .in the short run. Unless, of course, the U.S. decides to fix the price of gold again.
bgz Offline
#178 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 10,988
RayR wrote:
Don't be a douchenozzle, the gold has to be minted into a coin or token with a known weight and purity.
Precious metals like gold and silver are fungible. You can easily exchange them for funny money if you really needed to with any coin dealer or precious metals dealer. But hell ya, I'd take them in a heartbeat as payment.
You mean you'd stick your nose up in the air and say, "I can't accept that as real money..IT DOESN'T SAY IT'S LEGAL TENDER ON IT".LOL LOL LOL




I would take it at 20% under spot for my inconvenience of having to go sell it.
RayR Offline
#179 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 3,591
rfenst wrote:
Known weight and quantity will still cause significant swings in the value of your gold, even if minted by a government. The volatility on a day to day basis, is much greater than inflation .in the short run. Unless, of course, the U.S. decides to fix the price of gold again.


Geez...I think I'll take my chances on those significant swings vs. that constant downward swing of funny money. LOL LOL
Precious metals never go to zero, where fiat paper money can.

Now, why would the gubment try to fix the price of gold in this purely fiat world? Are we in the days of FDR where he shamelessly stole the people's gold and then wearing his 'jamas in the morning fixed the gold price by dictate to a higher price than what he confiscated the gold for? Foreigners thought the dicktator was nuts. He was.

In your zeal to defend the status quo as if everything is somehow under control, you completely miss The Funny-Money Game and how it is played.

Quote:
The sense of general unease that I detect among those I meet and discuss economics and financial matters with is increasing —with good reason. Clearly, what everyone calls inflation, rising prices or more accurately currency debasement, will lead to higher interest rates, threatening markets which are unmistakably in bubble territory.

The consequences of rising prices and interest rates are still being badly underestimated.

In this article I get to the source of the inflation problem, which is the monetary debasement of the dollar and other major currencies. An important part of the problem is that mathematical economists have lost sight of what their beloved statistics represent —none more so than with GDP.

I explain why GDP is simply the total of accumulating currency and credit which is wrongly taken reflect economic progress – there being no such thing as economic growth. Once that point is grasped, the significance of this basic error becomes clear, and the fiat currency paradigm is revealed for what it is: a funny-money game that will go horribly wrong.

There is only one escape from it, and that is to own the one form of money that is no one’s counterparty risk; the one form of money that always comes to humanity’s rescue when fiat fails.

And that is gold. It is neglected by nearly everyone because it is the anti-bubble. The more that people believe in fiat-denominated assets, the less they believe in gold. That is until their funny-money games implode, inevitably triggered by sharply rising interest rates.

More...

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/09/alasdair-macleod/the-funny-money-game/
frankj1 Offline
#180 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 39,461
rayr,
ask Uncle Lew to tell you the scary story of the Hunt family and Silver Thursday.
Insist he tell you how they were saved and the irony of them owning a stake in the rescue bank!

silver, gold, platinum...none are as safe and pure as you have been promised.
Brewha Offline
#181 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 10,075
While your at it Frank, tell him about pearls and swine…..
frankj1 Offline
#182 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 39,461
only if he'd understand the value.
But I will make sure to wipe my feet when I leave,
rfenst Offline
#183 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 35,007
RayR wrote:
In your zeal to defend the status quo as if everything is somehow under control, you completely miss The Funny-Money Game and how it is played.

You still don't get it.

I don't defend the status quo. I didn't make it and have no control over it- or real impact on it. I am just a pawn in other people's money game and there is no way out. It is what it is.

So, I simply accept reality. And, I have learned to live within it by planning and adapting according to the changes that come with it.

That's all.

Abrignac Offline
#184 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 15,985
It must suck to live in a vacuum.
RayR Offline
#185 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 3,591
frankj1 wrote:
rayr,
ask Uncle Lew to tell you the scary story of the Hunt family and Silver Thursday.
Insist he tell you how they were saved and the irony of them owning a stake in the rescue bank!

silver, gold, platinum...none are as safe and pure as you have been promised.


And what about the fiat dollar Frank? Is it as safe and pure as it has been promised?

The Hunt brother's story is an interesting one of the high inflation of the 70's. Do you remember those days Frank? We could very well be seeing it again with all that gubment spending and money printing.
The Hunt's were rightly concerned about their vast oil fortune being eroded away by the depreciation of the dollar. In 1970 It was still illegal to own and trade in gold until the restriction was finally ended at the end of 1974 so silver looked like a good bet to dump some dollars. The price of silver was $1.50/oz and then went to $2.00 and in the next 3 years went to $3.00 and up and up until 1980.
They amassed a large amount of physical bullion. Even shipping forty million ounces of silver on three 707 chartered jets to Switzerland for safe keeping. Where they went wrong is they got wrapped up in the frenzy of high-priced futures contracts and probably didn't realize just how far the powers that be would go to save their azz and keep the dollar from imploding.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article27513.html



RayR Offline
#186 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 3,591
Brewha wrote:
While your at it Frank, tell him about pearls and swine…..


I heard Biden wants us to throw more pearls before his swiney administration so they can gobble them up.
rfenst Offline
#187 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 35,007
RayR wrote:
I heard Biden wants us to throw more pearls before his swiney administration so they can gobble them up.

If that is supposed to be a retort, it doesn't even qualify.
Did you even see what Frank did back there?
bgz Offline
#188 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 10,988
RayR wrote:
And what about the fiat dollar Frank? Is it as safe and pure as it has been promised?

The Hunt brother's story is an interesting one of the high inflation of the 70's. Do you remember those days Frank? We could very well be seeing it again with all that gubment spending and money printing.
The Hunt's were rightly concerned about their vast oil fortune being eroded away by the depreciation of the dollar. In 1970 It was still illegal to own and trade in gold until the restriction was finally ended at the end of 1974 so silver looked like a good bet to dump some dollars. The price of silver was $1.50/oz and then went to $2.00 and in the next 3 years went to $3.00 and up and up until 1980.
They amassed a large amount of physical bullion. Even shipping forty million ounces of silver on three 707 chartered jets to Switzerland for safe keeping. Where they went wrong is they got wrapped up in the frenzy of high-priced futures contracts and probably didn't realize just how far the powers that be would go to save their azz and keep the dollar from imploding.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article27513.html





So get more dollars then? Silver seems like it's out of steam... go green backs!
rfenst Offline
#189 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 35,007
Never mind.
bgz Offline
#190 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 10,988
rfenst wrote:
If that is supposed to be a retort, it doesn't even qualify.
Did you even see what Frank did back there?


Frank is the smoothest wordsmith on these boards.
RayR Offline
#191 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 3,591
bgz wrote:
So get more dollars then? Silver seems like it's out of steam... go green backs!


You do that, stock up on greenies. Cash in your crypto for greenbacks too. Buy high, sell low!Laugh

RayR Offline
#192 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 3,591
rfenst wrote:
If that is supposed to be a retort, it doesn't even qualify.
Did you even see what Frank did back there?


Frank who did what?Anxious

Your Bidey wants to tax you, he says he only wants to TAX DA RICH to pay for his socialism. Only a fool would believe his progtard pearls of wisdom.
bgz Offline
#193 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 10,988
RayR wrote:
You do that, stock up on greenies. Cash in your crypto for greenbacks too. Buy high, sell low!Laugh



Does it pay in leaves or does it pay in gold?

Don't matter.. as long as it pays.
bgz Offline
#194 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 10,988
RayR wrote:
Frank who did what?Anxious

Your Bidey wants to tax you, he says he only wants to TAX DA RICH to pay for his socialism. Only a fool would believe his progtard pearls of wisdom.


You ain't on Frank's level... you never will be.
rfenst Offline
#195 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 35,007
RayR wrote:
Frank who did what?Anxious

Your Bidey wants to tax you, he says he only wants to TAX DA RICH to pay for his socialism. Only a fool would believe his progtard pearls of wisdom.

Your reference to Biden taxing the rich is irrelevant to the conversation about Franks post. He doubled up on the pearls to swine reference, got very creative and showed (some of us) how witty he is.

You simply got played in CBid classical fashion in a way I hope you can laugh at.
RayR Offline
#196 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 3,591
bgz wrote:
You ain't on Frank's level... you never will be.


I'm glad..Frank is too evasive, likes to change the subject, go off on tangents, and gossip and stuff like an old Jewish lady. He thinks he's being cute and snarky. I rarely listen to him anymore, I probably should block him. He has less to say of any importance than even you.Sleep
Brewha Offline
#197 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 10,075
bgz wrote:
You ain't on Frank's level... you never will be.

Give him a chance B - at least until he turns 16.
bgz Offline
#198 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 10,988
RayR wrote:
I'm glad..Frank is too evasive, likes to change the subject, go off on tangents, and gossip and stuff like an old Jewish lady. He thinks he's being cute and snarky. I rarely listen to him anymore, I probably should block him. He has less to say of any importance than even you.Sleep


You ain't on my level... you never will be.
bgz Offline
#199 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 10,988
Like Bruce Lee said... be water.
Brewha Offline
#200 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 10,075
I’d rather be scotch and water…
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