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Last post 2 years ago by ZRX1200. 48 replies replies.
Thank God at least one Democrat has some common sense.
Abrignac Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,278
SEPTEMBER 29, 2021
MANCHIN STATEMENT ON INFRASTRUCTURE AND RECONCILIATION NEGOTIATIONS

Washington, DC – Today, U.S. Senator Joe Manchin (D-WV) released the following statement about infrastructure and reconciliation negotiations.

“Every Member of Congress has a solemn duty to vote for what they believe is best for the country and the American people, not their party. Respectfully, as I have said for months, I can’t support $3.5 trillion more in spending when we have already spent $5.4 trillion since last March. At some point, all of us, regardless of party must ask the simple question – how much is enough?

What I have made clear to the President and Democratic leaders is that spending trillions more on new and expanded government programs, when we can’t even pay for the essential social programs, like Social Security and Medicare, is the definition of fiscal insanity. Suggesting that spending trillions more will not have an impact on inflation ignores the everyday reality that America’s families continue pay an unavoidable inflation tax. Proposing a historic expansion of social programs while ignoring the fact we are not in a recession and that millions of jobs remain open will only feed a dysfunction that could weaken our economic recovery. This is the shared reality we all now face, and it is this reality that must shape the future decisions that we, as elected leaders, must make.

Since the beginning of this reconciliation debate, I have been consistent in my belief that any expansion of social programs must be targeted to those in need, not expanded beyond what is fiscally possible. Our tax code should be reformed to fix the flaws of the 2017 tax bill and ensure everyone pays their fair share but it should not weaken our global competitiveness or the ability of millions of small businesses to compete with the Amazons of the world. Overall, the amount we spend now must be balanced with what we need and can afford – not designed to reengineer the social and economic fabric of this nation or vengefully tax for the sake of wishful spending.

In August, I recommended we take a strategic pause to provide time to develop the right policies and to continue to monitor how the pandemic and economic factors are affecting our nation’s fiscal situation before we spend more. Throughout September, I have made it clear to all those who would listen the need to means test any new social programs so that we are helping those who need it the most, not spend for the sake of spending.

While I am hopeful that common ground can be found that would result in another historic investment in our nation, I cannot – and will not - support trillions in spending or an all or nothing approach that ignores the brutal fiscal reality our nation faces. There is a better way and I believe we can find it if we are willing to continue to negotiate in good faith.

If there is one final lesson that will continue to guide me in this difficult debate ahead it is this: America is a great nation but great nations throughout history have been weakened by careless spending and bad policies. Now, more than ever, we must work together to avoid these fatal mistakes so that we may fulfill our greatest responsibility as elected leaders and pass on a better America to the next generation.”
bgz Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Good, I like him, and I like Sinema. I know that makes me a progtard, but I'm ok with that.

I wish we had more democrats like them.
Abrignac Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,278
bgz wrote:
Good, I like him, and I like Sinema. I know that makes me a progtard, but I'm ok with that.

I wish we had more democrats like them.


Those two are far from Progtard.
RayR Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
You'd have to give them partial progtard status, but I would say that about most Republicans too.
Now B-G-Z I would say is 3/4 progtard.
ZRX1200 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,604
Hope the old man has a good team, AOC is gonna wear a dress in his name soon.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,431
Careful Donkey man...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9005475/Manchin-steps-feud-AOC-accusing-rival-Dem-active-Twitter-anything.html


Muleface is after ya!
Smooth light Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
If AOC gets out of the cage at the border, that Obama set up.
bgz Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Whistle wants to f*ck her... I have to agree with DMV on this one (noooOOoOOOo) she's got a mule face.

I've seen Ron though, he would probably f*ck anything.
RayR Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
bgz wrote:
Whistle wants to f*ck her... I have to agree with DMV on this one (noooOOoOOOo) she's got a mule face.

I've seen Ron though, he would probably f*ck anything.


I figured you would be the one who thought her 'death stare' was HOT! Drool
bgz Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Nah... I know better. You get done hittin that sh*t and have to take a step back. She'll bite your head off if you don't.
rfenst Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,323
I don't have any problem with what Manchin holding out like he is, but passage of something for less than $3.5 million is inevitable. He and Sinema need to come up with counter-proposals, even if they draw their top line very low.
Dg west deptford Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
It's blessed to be thankful for common sense in the D column indeed!
VERY RARE & NEARLY EXTINCT!


They know full government take over of everything is the only way to sustain so common sense must be canceled

After all common sense sounds too much like a mean Trump tweet

Thank God for Mercy through Manchin!
ZRX1200 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,604
bgz wrote:
Whistle wants to f*ck her... I have to agree with DMV on this one (noooOOoOOOo) she's got a mule face.

I've seen Ron though, he would probably f*ck anything.



Ron sent me a screen shot of you asking for a pair of his skivies for you to “pooning” with ???

Mellow
HockeyDad Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,134
rfenst wrote:
I don't have any problem with what Manchin holding out like he is, but passage of something for less than $3.5 million is inevitable. He and Sinema need to come up with counter-proposals, even if they draw their top line very low.


Passing something for less than $3.5 million sounds good.
rfenst Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,323
HockeyDad wrote:
Passing something for less than $3.5 million sounds good.

I don't like it at all and wouldn't settle it for anywhere near $3.5T.
rfenst Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,323
rfenst wrote:
I don't like it at all and wouldn't settle it for anywhere near $3.5T.

Manchin just announced his topline is $1.5T.
Smooth light Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
Grandpa tell me again why money is so cheap you can wipe your azz with it.
HockeyDad Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,134
rfenst wrote:
Manchin just announced his topline is $1.5T.


The important thing is Democrats must raise taxes, increase debt for future generations, and spend money which will be funneled to special interests. I accept that this is how it is and make sure to be involved in the special interests.

The debate is just the amount, not the reason why.
RayR Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
This country is run by the batchit crazy, deranged criminals from an insane asylum and has been for a long time. Mark Twian once called congress the "native criminal class" for good reason. Once again they have to raise the debt ceiling and go more into more debt to pay their current debt obligations so they don't have to default (go officially bankrupt). WTF!

B-G-Z, Don't read stuff on these links!

Debtpocalypse Now: Here’s What Will Happen if US Defaults on Its Mountain of Debt
By Ilya Tsukanov
Sputnik News


September 30, 2021

Quote:
On Monday, Senate Republicans blocked legislation to raise the debt ceiling and allow the US to avoid an impending government shutdown and possible default. On Tuesday, the GOP also pooh-poohed a proposal by Democrats to allow for the debt ceiling to be raised with a simple majority vote, instead of the 60 vote supermajority ordinarily needed.

The United States is hurtling toward the historically unprecedented prospect of defaulting on tens of trillions of dollars in debt as government funding is set to expire on 30 September, the end of the current fiscal year. On Tuesday, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen warned that the government was on track to running out of money by 18 October if the borrowing limit was not raised soon.

More...

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/09/no_author/debtpocalypse-now-heres-what-will-happen-if-us-defaults-on-its-mountain-of-debt/


This is Getting Really Insane
Posted Sep 30, 2021 by Martin Armstrong

Quote:
Well, my phone has been red hot today. There are some people in Washington who should call to get a reality check. Biden’s plan for spending is in trouble, and even Democrats are starting to wonder who the hell is pulling these strings. There have been proposals to save the planet and impose about an 8 cent per mile driven tax, which could be $2,000 per year — just to drive! There was an emergency meeting with Biden and Senate Majority Leader Charles Schumer (D-NY) in the White House, and people were wondering if Biden was coherent.

Biden is risking putting companies out of business and creating a massive crisis by fining companies $70,000 per employee who has not been vaccinated. Never in my entire life have I become so disgusted with politicians. This is completely out of control. Spending 15%+ of the total national debt in a single year is more than the cost of waging World War II. These insane politicians no longer represent the people and are burning down everything this country was founded on. Washington is directly opposed to the people who work in this country. Then we have Nader who thinks if they manufacture a $1 trillion coin and buy back their own debt that this is realistic. I have been warned after 10 years of meetings that they will default on national debts, for they have no plan of ever paying them off no less reducing their spending.

More...

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/politics/this-is-getting-really-insane/
frankj1 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
though I wish there were more D's like him and Sinema (and certainly ANY R's with enough ballz to buck Trump when they actually don't like him), it can not be overlooked that Joe M continues to derive a great income from the coal industry...so like him all you want but hold off on his canonization...even after he dies.
HockeyDad Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,134
We ship coal to China.
rfenst Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,323
HockeyDad wrote:
The important thing is Democrats must raise taxes, increase debt for future generations, and spend money which will be funneled to special interests. I accept that this is how it is and make sure to be involved in the special interests.

The debate is just the amount, not the reason why.

Exactly.
RayR Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
frankj1 wrote:
though I wish there were more D's like him and Sinema (and certainly ANY R's with enough ballz to buck Trump when they actually don't like him), it can not be overlooked that Joe M continues to derive a great income from the coal industry...so like him all you want but hold off on his canonization...even after he dies.


What do you have against coal? Are you a coal hater Frank? A greenpea who wants coal miners to learn how to code?
China has a shortage of coal which they rely on for the production of much of their electricity. Do you want Chinese people to die for lack of electricity? Do you want brownouts and blackouts in the cities and hospitals?
frankj1 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
there's a downside to every deal. Every single deal.
the decision is then made based on if one can live with the downside, if one has a brain.

If all decisions were to be based only on the upside, in this case the monetary gain, then the world would be saying it values greed over longevity.

Better to figure out how to get the world's worst polluters to make changes.

Difficult as that would be, it would be less of a challenge than putting your dream of how American politics should be in place.

Ever hear the axiom "don't chit where you eat?".
frankj1 Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
and I find it interesting you'd defend a pol who votes where his personal gain is considered over the general welfare.

Not sure if interesting is the word I mean...
Whistlebritches Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
bgz wrote:
Whistle wants to f*ck her... I have to agree with DMV on this one (noooOOoOOOo) she's got a mule face.

I've seen Ron though, he would probably f*ck anything.


I said I wanted to **** her brains out..............sadly someone beat me to it.
bgz Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Whistlebritches wrote:
I said I wanted to **** her brains out..............sadly someone beat me to it.


Damn... you coulda been famous... was you there play cleanup at least?
bgz Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
The brains I mean.
RayR Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
frankj1 wrote:
and I find it interesting you'd defend a pol who votes where his personal gain is considered over the general welfare.

Not sure if interesting is the word I mean...


A Senator should vote for what is in the best interest of the people and economy of his state, not vote for what some Yankee puritan busybody thinks is best for the "general welfare", whatever that means.
frankj1 Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
I think children could tell you what the term general welfare means. I know you also know what it means.
You even understand what it means to society, though you clearly choose to remain outside...that's absolutely fine...and root against it.

I might suggest as an example of an improvement to the general welfare of your part of the country would be to clear the Rust Belt air.
Even anarchists would benefit.
Abrignac Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,278
frankj1 wrote:
I think children could tell you what the term general welfare means. I know you also know what it means.
You even understand what it means to society, though you clearly choose to remain outside...that's absolutely fine...and root against it.

I might suggest as an example of an improvement to the general welfare of your part of the country would be to clear the Rust Belt air.
Even anarchists would benefit.


Not sure why you waste your time with him. Time and time again he has shown he has no interest in learned discourse. He reminds me of a pivot man in a circle jerk who constantly spins to catch the fallout.
RayR Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
frankj1 wrote:
I think children could tell you what the term general welfare means. I know you also know what it means.
You even understand what it means to society, though you clearly choose to remain outside...that's absolutely fine...and root against it.

I might suggest as an example of an improvement to the general welfare of your part of the country would be to clear the Rust Belt air.
Even anarchists would benefit.


"General welfare" is in the preamble of the U.S. Constitution, the preamble is merely descriptive of the ends of that document, it does not define any powers to the government. To say the government may do anything it wishes in the name of the "general welfare" is idiotic since the powers of the general government are limited and enumerated in the document.
You can't have it both ways and be taken seriously.
As James Madison put it, “It would be absurd to say, first, that Congress may do what they please; and then, that they may do this or that particular thing.”
But politicians may either be idiots or cunningly evil themselves and consider the people to be idiots (which is mostly right in too many cases) who would believe that the grand schemes they do are in the name of the "general welfare".

The Rust Belt air or the polluted lakes or rivers was the cause of the local and state governments who reneged on protecting property rights when collecting gob of taxes and donations to campaign coffers from special interests took precedent. Sometimes the governments themselves are the biggest polluters or co-conspirators.
Sweeping federal feel-good one size fits all dicktates do nothing to solve problems, if anything they made things worse, they'll carve out exemptions for politically favored entities and create more expensive federal monstrosities like the EPA that thinks it knows what's best for everyone and can micromanage everything in your life if you just let them.



Smooth light Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
How about all the revenue for the government would have goten from the Excel -pipeline and other projects, if they got their taxes from the companies and personal.

We would be selling not begging. Joey B cut down that money tree.
frankj1 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
well that clarified a bunch of stuff I don't recall typing...
thought I was talking about the good senator from W.V. and his continuing to profit handsomely on air poison while holding a vote.
I guess you pick and choose the subjects for your outrage...as do most!
But most don't preach, most understand they have a pet corruption or two they back.
Cool. One of us!


anyway, Ray, I promised myself some healing time from sundown today until midnight Sunday.
I won't be able to gyrate ya during those hours, though I will be around.
Just can't get into it with people for a few...

Shalom
zitotczito Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 08-21-2006
Posts: 6,441
Like them both, NO! Not because Manchin is holding out for 1.5T, but because he is willing to accept that. Once a Federal Government program is established it can virtually never be ended. So funding this Democratic Socialist program wish list at lower levels is just a con by Manchin and others. When ever these short term programs are due to end, they just get refunded at higher amounts. Starting at 1.5T will be 3.5T or higher in fairly short order.
RayR Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
Agreed Zito, even 1.5T is a congressional criminal con job. Manchin is a Progressive, so he can't be trusted for anything but to try to pull the wool over American eyes. The heist is planned, they can't start it at zero dollars so they've manufactured a floor at 1.5T in the minds of the feckless proles and the media, so anything they can get above that is an even bigger win for their socialism.

Frank's got his eye off the ball, whining about Manchin making money on WV "air poison" as if that's the real concern.
rfenst Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,323
Manchin boxed himself in to a corner with his opening offer of $1.5T. He came in way too high at the wrong moment.
bgz Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Yeah... you should always try to wait for the other guy to throw an offer out there.
rfenst Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,323
bgz wrote:
Yeah... you should always try to wait for the other guy to throw an offer out there.

They did. $3.5T. It was Manchin's move.
bgz Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Oh well, can't win em all, lol.
Smooth light Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
As usual you don't have al clue.🤡
rfenst Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,323
Joe Manchin’s Intervention

Democrats are trying to pass a Bernie Sanders agenda on a Joe Biden mandate.

WSJ Editorial Board

House Democrats scrambled all day and failed Thursday to come up with the votes to pass the Senate infrastructure bill. But the bigger news this week is West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin’s declaration of what he won’t accept in the separate $3.5 trillion tax-and-spending bill. Think of this as an intervention to save the Democratic Party, and the country, from the left.

Progressives are furious with Mr. Manchin, and with Arizona Sen. Kyrsten Sinema, for refusing to go along with the Bernie Sanders entitlement dreamscape. As an act of retribution, they’ve threatened to scuttle the $1 trillion infrastructure bill that the two Democrats negotiated with Republicans.

Mr. Sanders wants the House to defeat the infrastructure bill, a Biden priority, and Speaker Nancy Pelosi had to delay going to the floor again Thursday because she lacked the votes to pass it. Unless it passes, the moderate liberals who support the infrastructure bill will know they’re riding in the back of the party bus.

***
Not so Mr. Manchin, who has the leverage in a 50-50 Senate to ride in the front, maybe even to drive the bus. They can’t afford to lose his vote, yet the left and the White House have behaved as if somehow the West Virginian would roll over in the end.

Mr. Manchin has been sending signals for months that his support has limits. First he refused to break the Senate filibuster. Then he said he couldn’t support $3.5 trillion because it’s inflationary and the economy no longer needs the help. Then in our pages he called for a “strategic pause” on the spending bill to debate specific policies. He might as well have been Ted Cruz for all that Democratic leaders paid attention.

Then, in statements and remarks Wednesday and Thursday, Mr. Manchin laid down markers that Democrats can no longer ignore. He won’t support more than $1.5 trillion in new spending. He says “social programs must be targeted to those in need, not expanded beyond what is fiscally possible.” He’s willing to raise some taxes, but nothing like what’s in the $2.1 trillion House Ways and Means bill.

“What I have made clear to the President and Democratic leaders,” Mr. Manchin said in a statement, “is that spending trillions more on new and expanded government programs, when we can’t even pay for the essential social programs, like Social Security and Medicare, is the definition of fiscal insanity.” He’s right.

Democrats may be angry, but as the days go by they may recognize that Mr. Manchin is doing them a favor. With President Biden abdicating to the left, the West Virginian is providing a reality check on progressive excess.

Inflation is already a political problem for Democrats, and another spending blowout would further associate the party with rising prices and falling real wages. The economy may have enough post-Covid momentum to absorb the tax increases, but they will slow growth over time.

The overriding problem for Democrats is that they are trying to pass a Bernie Sanders agenda with a Joe Biden mandate. Mr. Biden won because he ran against Donald Trump’s chaotic leadership and promised to end the pandemic. Even then he lacked coattails as Democrats lost seats in the House and won the Senate only because Mr. Trump demoralized GOP voters in two Georgia races.

Mr. Biden ran explicitly against Mr. Sanders’s socialism in the primaries. As the nominee he felt obliged to endorse a “unity” agenda with Mr. Sanders. But that should have gone by the wayside with the small majorities in Congress. For reasons that are hard to understand, Mr. Biden came to believe he was FDR and could pass the Sanders agenda as his own.

He has no mandate for the vast expansions of government he is proposing, and if Democrats somehow manage to pass even half of it, they’ll be crushed in 2022. This is the political message if you read between the lines of Mr. Manchin’s warnings. As he put it on Thursday, progressive Democrats can campaign in 2022 on what they don’t pass this year in Congress. Then they might have a mandate for what they’re trying to jam through now without enough public support.

***
Unlike Mr. Manchin, we think even $1.5 trillion more in spending is far too much after Congress has spent $5.4 trillion in the last year. More than the amount of new spending, and even more than the tax increases, the real danger is from the many new entitlements demanded by the left. Even if they start small, they will always grow. And even if they are phased out to fit a 10-year budget window, they will never be repealed.

These entitlements are the largest stakes as Democrats try to pass whatever they can without a voter mandate. They would corrode the federal fisc and entrench government from cradle-to-grave. Meantime, Mr. Manchin is trying to save Democrats from themselves.
RayR Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
Duhmensia Joe is feeling the Bern and taking his orders from that crusty old Bernie Sanders with his commie infrastructure agenda of free K-12 woke brainwashing, free woke college brainwashing, free woke socialist healthcare with free abortions on demand, and free "gender affirming surgeries" for those with gender dysphoria. Everything will be free! just tax the rich and it'll cost $0.00! 💰💲💰💲💰
zitotczito Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 08-21-2006
Posts: 6,441
Of course he is. Biden the Brain Dead Buffoon lying hypocritical POS knows or at least his handlers know that the Democrat voters are even more brain dead then Biden is.
ZRX1200 Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,604
rfenst wrote:
Manchin just announced his topline is $1.5T.




No he actually did months ago. It’s always good to believe what you hear though.
ZRX1200 Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,604
Anyways, Jenn told us today it won’t cost anything so I’m totally relieved and am actively waiting for my 3.5 trillion free dollars.
Dg west deptford Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
Not a fan of a capitals gains tax hike, or a corporate tax rate hike for that matter because corporations don't pay taxes.
it won't cost a thing if it's stolen so Jenn could probably pass a lie detector test saying that
ZRX1200 Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,604
Lie detector test isn’t ever going to happen.

None of this happens without undying and ongoing compliance. And that happens on many levels and I’ll leave it at that.
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