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Last post 2 months ago by frankj1. 32 replies replies.
Republicans Being Nanny-Staters
8trackdisco Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 56,449
The Dems don't have a monopoly on nannyism (or ninnism).

71% of poled Wisconsin residents want medical marijuana.
Over 50% (think it was 53%) want recreational legalized.

The Republican controlled house (since 2011) allowed a hearing on the last day of the political calendar yesterday around creating a tightly written proposal. It will have to be reintroduced in January with a long, drawn out road ahead.

I do prefer the state house and senate to be a bit right of center. Frankly, conservatives simply govern better.

But Jimminey Crickets, at least get medical marijuana over the line. It is either because they want to be a nanny for their residents, or the are so deeply in the pockets of the pharma industry they don't dare upset their feeding trough.

Do any of you live in Republican dominated state senate and house state that actually actively promoted medical and got it legalized? How long did it take? How long has it been in place? What have been the medical and societal benefits (and costs) you seen/experienced?

As usual, I'm curious.
ZRX1200 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 57,150
Stupid doesn’t live in one zip code or ideology.
MACS Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 74,941
I'm pretty damn conservative (as we all know) and I've always been a proponent of legalization of pot.

Prohibition does NOT work. We found that out in the early 1930's, right? The war on drugs has been an abject failure. It is way past time to let it go.
BuckyB93 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 12,256
Once they get a taste of the tax harvest they can get from pot sales, it will be a slam dunk. Here in MA there's the general 6.25% state sales tax, a 10.75% luxury tax then an additional city tax depending on the town (my town tacks on another 3% tax for pot sales).

"Since adult-use retailers opened in Massachusetts in November 2018, gross total sales have now reached $2.54 billion, according to data from the Cannabis Control Commission."
https://www.wcvb.com/article/massachusetts-marijuana-excise-tax-revenue-exceeds-alcohol-for-first-time/38834509

There are probably 5 pot shops within 30 min drive from my house with one in my town about a 5 min bike ride away.

https://weedmaps.com/dispensaries/in/united-states/massachusetts/gardner-ma

As for the medical and societal benefits (and costs) you seen/experienced, I don't smoke it myself but I have a friend fighting breast cancer and her medical marijuana has allowed her to get off at least 2 prescription drugs she was taking without the side effects that she was having with the pills.

Let's not get fooled though, big phama will be and are players in arena for the legalization of cannabis. They just gotta figure out how they fit in at the feeding trough to get slice of the pie too. Once it becomes more accepted and common, they will have their own strains of pot and patents on them just like they do for pills and shots.
HockeyDad Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,095
“Marijuana is a gateway drug.” ~ Wheelrite
HockeyDad Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,095
LOS ANGELES — California’s cannabis market is booming nearly five years after voters legalized recreational weed. But there’s a catch: the vast majority of pot sales are still underground.

Rather than make cannabis a Main Street fixture, California’s strict regulations have led most industry operators to close shop, flee the state or sell in the state’s illegal market that approaches $8 billion annually, twice the volume of legal sales.

Local government opposition, high taxes and competition from unlicensed businesses are complicating California’s push to build a thriving legal market. Many of those factors are baked into California law, including rules allowing city leaders to shut out licensed cannabis enterprises. Meanwhile, the state has relaxed penalties against illegal operations in the name of racial justice.

Infighting between industry groups and lobbying dysfunction in Sacramento have stalled potential legislative fixes, with no clear end in sight. The scale of those problems has California’s iconic cannabis industry — the legal side, at least — lagging behind other states that have regulated the market.

“You don’t have a real cannabis industry if the dominant portion of it has no interest in being legal,” said Adam Spiker, executive director of the Southern California Coalition, a cannabis trade association. “There’s no other regulated industry in the world that I know of that operates like that.”

Licensed cannabis shops offering legal goods are sparsely scattered across the state — there are roughly 2 per 100,000 people, one of the lowest rates in the nation among states that support legal recreational sales.

By comparison, Oregon has 17.9 retail shops for every 100,000 residents. Colorado boasts a similar ratio, and Washington state’s rate is more than triple California’s.

California has just 823 licensed brick-and-mortar cannabis shops, but close to 3,000 retailers and delivery services operate in the state without a permit, a February 2020 market analysis by Marijuana Business Daily found.

The unchecked cannabis ecosystem has caused major economic and environmental damage in California. Many of the state’s estimated 50,000 illegal cultivation sites have been found to use banned pesticides that can poison wildlife and water supplies and are believed to account for hundreds of millions of gallons in water stolen from farms and neighboring communities each year.

Law enforcement agencies in the last few months alone have broken up sprawling grow operations in the arid Antelope Valley and urban Alameda County, discovering around 50 tons of processed cannabis goods and more than 100,000 plants, a haul valued well above $1 billion.

California Attorney General Rob Bonta announced earlier this week that the state had seized 165 weapons and more than 33 tons of infrastructure like water lines and toxic chemicals after conducting close to 500 raids this year.

“The victims of illegal marijuana cultivation are many and the toll is severe,” he said during a news conference. “Families whose water supply is polluted by outlawed pesticides, exploited labor exposed to dangerous and illegal working conditions, farmers deprived of clean soil and water.”

California, like many states, has lowered its penalties on illegal marijuana businesses, a response to a disproportionate number of arrests targeting communities of color under drug criminalization. Many in the industry say they generally support criminal justice reforms, but that the current penalty of a misdemeanor and $500 fine is simply too low to dissuade illicit activity.

Unlicensed dispensaries shuttered for city code enforcement violations often pop up again, sometimes right down the street. And cultivation sites like the one raided in Antelope Valley often resume operations just days later, law enforcement officials concede.

Every state establishing a legal market has had to contend with illicit operations, but the underground market in California is far more entrenched. Many of today’s unlicensed businesses legally served customers for decades under the state’s medical marijuana laws that passed in 1996 but went underground after voters approved the recreational pot initiative Proposition 64 passed in 2016. Some operated in cities that banned weed sales, while others balked at the new regulatory fees and taxes.

The new law forced longtime business owners to make tough decisions, said Elizabeth Ashford, vice president of communications at cannabis delivery company Eaze.

“They were totally allowed under the law just minutes ago,” she said looking back to when the new regulations were established. “Did anybody really think those folks would just be like, ‘Well okay, we’re just going to close our doors’?”

California’s cannabis law lets local officials decide whether to open the door to cannabis or slam it shut. So far, most are opting for the latter.

A whopping 68 percent of California cities ban cannabis retail, including wide swaths of the Central Valley. Other areas have imposed strict caps on the number of available licenses, limiting market growth.

San Diego has just 25 pot shops for a population of 1.4 million; San Jose has 16 stores for 1 million people.

Some local officials say the industry harms children or argue dispensaries would attract crime. Others point to the difficulty of drafting ordinances, complying with strict environmental reviews and dealing with potential lawsuits from applicants who aren’t awarded licenses.

Public meetings in places like Mountain View in the Silicon Valley and Anaheim have devolved into hours-long marathons filled with protests and name calling when the topic of allowing cannabis shops comes up.

Spiker, who helps develop local cannabis regulations, said some elected officials fear a pro-cannabis stance could cost them their seats.

“Just because Prop. 64 passed in a community at say 60 percent, it doesn’t mean that the 40 percent that voted ‘no’ won’t organize a recall effort or a strenuous bid to get you thrown out of office your next election,” he said.

The dearth of retail stores — and legal shelf space — gives unlicensed businesses a large, unserved consumer base. It also contributes to an oversupply of goods produced by the state’s 6,000 licensed cultivators that has caused the price of wholesale cannabis to plummet, hurting legal growers.

“Local control has, let’s just be honest, crippled the California market and prevented it from reaching its potential,” said Hirsh Jain, founder of cannabis consulting firm Ananda Strategy.

Industry leaders say there is little chance state lawmakers will take away that power, largely due to fierce support for local control from law enforcement and city and county officials.

Citizen initiatives and Covid-related budget deficits have spurred some jurisdictions to open their arms to weed. By Jain’s count, 28 cities will open their first dispensaries in 2022 and 37 more that will pass a retail ordinance.

Businesses that manage to secure a license have another problem: competing with their unregulated competitors.

The price of cannabis products sold in legal dispensaries can be two to three times higher than nearly identical items sold in unlicensed shops, which aren’t subject to cultivation or excise taxes that drive up costs for retailers.

Some buyers see little incentive to pay more for a legal product.

“Price is the biggest motivator for consumer choice,” Ashford said. “We know that from our own data, there’s no question that if you make things less expensive people will buy them.”

The difference between the legal and the illegal is not always obvious. Underground dispensaries are often indistinguishable from licensed shops and sell similar-looking items that may be counterfeit or diverted from the legal market. Illicit delivery services are also listed right next to legitimate operators on platforms like Google and Yelp.

Regulators warn that products purchased from unlicensed retailers pose a public health risk, pointing to a rash of lung illnesses related to untested vape cartridges that killed 68 people and hospitalized more than 2,800 nationwide in 2019.

Pro-cannabis state lawmakers have tried unsuccessfully to slash the tax burden in the face of opposition from SEIU, the powerful union that helped bankroll the 2016 ballot measure. The union disagrees with the industry argument that reducing tax rates will spur growth and eventually boost tax revenue, said Robert Harris, a lobbyist for SEIU.

“I’ve never heard of an industry that didn’t say, ‘Reduce our taxes, we’ll sell more and you’ll make more,’” he said.

Leaders within the cannabis industry say finding a solution for the tax problem is their top priority for next year. Nicole Elliott, director of the state Department of Cannabis Control, telegraphed that they might get support from Gov. Gavin Newsom, who championed Prop. 64 while running for office in 2016.

“I imagine that the administration will be very happy to partner with the Legislature on those discussions,” she said.

But finding consensus on a tax plan will be challenging. There is disagreement, for instance, about whether a tax cut should happen on the cultivation or retail side.

Lawmakers and Capitol staffers say this disunity makes legislative fixes nearly impossible to pass and perpetuates the status quo. That’s a scenario the industry can’t afford, given “the overhead costs that the illegal guy doesn’t do,” Spiker warned.

“The divide between legal and illegal is too big a gap to overcome.”
BuckyB93 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 12,256
I'm sure that this holds true in MA also. Speaking with those that smoke it regularly for recreational purposes, they typically buy it from "their guy." It's cheaper than the dispensaries as they don't have to pay the 20% taxes.

Those that have medical cards to buy it are exempt from the 20% tax so they typically buy it from the dispensaries.

It's a curious subject for me as I believe it has a place and benefits for medicinal purposes for both physical and mental treatments. If given a choice between pot or a pill that would have equal or risk based positive results, I'd probably go for pot.

At the risk of thread jacking, I'm very skeptical of big pharma even before the COVID thing (I don't want to turn this into another COVID thread). The whole opioid crisis was (is) seriously bad. I lay that at the feet of both big phara and their partnership with government.
BuckyB93 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 12,256
HockeyDad wrote:
“Marijuana is a gateway drug.” ~ Wheelrite


Alcohol is the number one gateway drug.
BuckyB93 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 12,256
NINE!
rfenst Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 36,625
8trackdisco wrote:
The Dems don't have a monopoly on nannyism (or ninnism).

71% of poled Wisconsin residents want medical marijuana.
Over 50% (think it was 53%) want recreational legalized.

The Republican controlled house (since 2011) allowed a hearing on the last day of the political calendar yesterday around creating a tightly written proposal. It will have to be reintroduced in January with a long, drawn out road ahead.

I do prefer the state house and senate to be a bit right of center. Frankly, conservatives simply govern better.

But Jimminey Crickets, at least get medical marijuana over the line. It is either because they want to be a nanny for their residents, or the are so deeply in the pockets of the pharma industry they don't dare upset their feeding trough.

Do any of you live in Republican dominated state senate and house state that actually actively promoted medical and got it legalized? How long did it take? How long has it been in place? What have been the medical and societal benefits (and costs) you seen/experienced?

As usual, I'm curious.

Florida's legislature is 2/3 Republican. We had a ballot state constitutional amendment vote and medical passed by over 70%. Legislature purposely dragged its feet like two to three years to enact enabling statutes that applied to the new constitutional right. They were/are draconian.

Then, some of tried to get THC maximum cut to like 5%. You'd have to smoke 3-4x more flower. Not a healthier requirement.

So, the State Supreme had to tell the legislature to get its @ss moving or it would rule.

Finally, DeSantis started charging as much as $50 million per license to grow and sell. BIG bucks, eh? Why doesn't he charge CVS the same if it is constitutionally declared a legal medicine?

And, after all that finally got worked out, our wonderful Republican legislators tired to make it even more difficult for Florida citizens to be able to vote to amend our constitution and such in the future, by putting limits on who can canvass for ballot signatures, and how much any one (as opposed to an election candidate) single can contribute to like just $3k to promote a cause like this. What about free speech?

Pathetic.
rfenst Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 36,625
BuckyB93 wrote:
As for the medical and societal benefits (and costs) you seen/experienced, I don't smoke it myself but I have a friend fighting breast cancer and her medical marijuana has allowed her to get off at least 2 prescription drugs she was taking without the side effects that she was having with the pills.


Bucky, it has kept me off opiates for a few years now. YMMV.
JGKAMIN Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 05-08-2011
Posts: 798
BuckyB93 wrote:
Once they get a taste of the tax harvest they can get from pot sales, it will be a slam dunk. Here in MA there's the general 6.25% state sales tax, a 10.75% luxury tax then an additional city tax depending on the town (my town tacks on another 3% tax for pot sales).

Aren’t cigars taxed at like 40% in Mass.?
HockeyDad Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,095
rfenst wrote:
Florida's legislature is 2/3 Republican. We had a ballot state constitutional amendment vote and medical passed by over 70%. Legislature purposely dragged its feet like two to three years to enact enabling statutes that applied to the new constitutional right. They were/are draconian.

Then, some of tried to get THC maximum cut to like 5%. You'd have to smoke 3-4x more flower. Not a healthier requirement.

So, the State Supreme had to tell the legislature to get its @ss moving or it would rule.

Finally, DeSantis started charging as much as $50 million per license to grow and sell. BIG bucks, eh? Why doesn't he charge CVS the same if it is constitutionally declared a legal medicine?

And, after all that finally got worked out, our wonderful Republican legislators tired to make it even more difficult for Florida citizens to be able to vote to amend our constitution and such in the future, by putting limits on who can canvass for ballot signatures, and how much any one (as opposed to an election candidate) single can contribute to like just $3k to promote a cause like this. What about free speech?

Pathetic.


You need to move out here to California. We had a ballot initiative to decriminalize magic mushrooms statewide but it didn’t get enough signatures for Fall 2022. Oakland has already decriminalized them.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 10,737
Fucqin' is good for you, Jack. Gettin' some pu$$y beats having a war.
- RP
Speyside2 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 1,863
So deaths from untested vapes means untaxed weed is deadly? I had a bad Lenovo computer once. I guess that means Irish whiskey is no good.
frankj1 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 41,506
JGKAMIN wrote:
Aren’t cigars taxed at like 40% in Mass.?


The Massachusetts excise tax on cigarettes is $3.51 per pack of 20 cigarettes. If a pack contains more than 20 cigarettes, the excise tax increases.

Cigars and smoking tobacco are subject to a state excise tax of 40% of the wholesale price.

Smokeless tobacco is subject to a 210% state excise of the wholesale price.

As of June 1, 2020, all vaping products are subject to a 75% state excise tax on the wholesale price.

Payments of cigarette and tobacco excise tax are made by vendors, not by consumers. However, the cost of the excise will be included in the retail price.
8trackdisco Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 56,449
BuckyB93 wrote:
Once they get a taste of the tax harvest they can get from pot sales, it will be a slam dunk. Here in MA there's the general 6.25% state sales tax, a 10.75% luxury tax then an additional city tax depending on the town (my town tacks on another 3% tax for pot sales).

"Since adult-use retailers opened in Massachusetts in November 2018, gross total sales have now reached $2.54 billion, according to data from the Cannabis Control Commission."
https://www.wcvb.com/article/massachusetts-marijuana-excise-tax-revenue-exceeds-alcohol-for-first-time/38834509

There are probably 5 pot shops within 30 min drive from my house with one in my town about a 5 min bike ride away.

https://weedmaps.com/dispensaries/in/united-states/massachusetts/gardner-ma

As for the medical and societal benefits (and costs) you seen/experienced, I don't smoke it myself but I have a friend fighting breast cancer and her medical marijuana has allowed her to get off at least 2 prescription drugs she was taking without the side effects that she was having with the pills.

Let's not get fooled though, big phama will be and are players in arena for the legalization of cannabis. They just gotta figure out how they fit in at the feeding trough to get slice of the pie too. Once it becomes more accepted and common, they will have their own strains of pot and patents on them just like they do for pills and shots.


Here's the thing. 30+ states are seeing the tax benefits. If 30 states are seeing it, why are they so slow to fill the troughs?

Yeah, big pharma will be in that market and try to corner the healthcare market as best they can. The margins in weed is probably their biggest problem with it legalized. The make much more on their side-effect ridden poisons for profit.

Like your friend with breast cancer, people can get off of their expensive RXs and have a higher (pun intended) quality of life.

8trackdisco Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 56,449
HockeyDad wrote:
LOS ANGELES — California’s cannabis market is booming nearly five years after voters legalized recreational weed. But there’s a catch: the vast majority of pot sales are still underground.

Rather than make cannabis a Main Street fixture, California’s strict regulations have led most industry operators to close shop, flee the state or sell in the state’s illegal market that approaches $8 billion annually, twice the volume of legal sales.

Local government opposition, high taxes and competition from unlicensed businesses are complicating California’s push to build a thriving legal market. Many of those factors are baked into California law, including rules allowing city leaders to shut out licensed cannabis enterprises. Meanwhile, the state has relaxed penalties against illegal operations in the name of racial justice.

Infighting between industry groups and lobbying dysfunction in Sacramento have stalled potential legislative fixes, with no clear end in sight. The scale of those problems has California’s iconic cannabis industry — the legal side, at least — lagging behind other states that have regulated the market.

“You don’t have a real cannabis industry if the dominant portion of it has no interest in being legal,” said Adam Spiker, executive director of the Southern California Coalition, a cannabis trade association. “There’s no other regulated industry in the world that I know of that operates like that.”

Licensed cannabis shops offering legal goods are sparsely scattered across the state — there are roughly 2 per 100,000 people, one of the lowest rates in the nation among states that support legal recreational sales.

By comparison, Oregon has 17.9 retail shops for every 100,000 residents. Colorado boasts a similar ratio, and Washington state’s rate is more than triple California’s.

California has just 823 licensed brick-and-mortar cannabis shops, but close to 3,000 retailers and delivery services operate in the state without a permit, a February 2020 market analysis by Marijuana Business Daily found.

The unchecked cannabis ecosystem has caused major economic and environmental damage in California. Many of the state’s estimated 50,000 illegal cultivation sites have been found to use banned pesticides that can poison wildlife and water supplies and are believed to account for hundreds of millions of gallons in water stolen from farms and neighboring communities each year.

Law enforcement agencies in the last few months alone have broken up sprawling grow operations in the arid Antelope Valley and urban Alameda County, discovering around 50 tons of processed cannabis goods and more than 100,000 plants, a haul valued well above $1 billion.

California Attorney General Rob Bonta announced earlier this week that the state had seized 165 weapons and more than 33 tons of infrastructure like water lines and toxic chemicals after conducting close to 500 raids this year.

“The victims of illegal marijuana cultivation are many and the toll is severe,” he said during a news conference. “Families whose water supply is polluted by outlawed pesticides, exploited labor exposed to dangerous and illegal working conditions, farmers deprived of clean soil and water.”

California, like many states, has lowered its penalties on illegal marijuana businesses, a response to a disproportionate number of arrests targeting communities of color under drug criminalization. Many in the industry say they generally support criminal justice reforms, but that the current penalty of a misdemeanor and $500 fine is simply too low to dissuade illicit activity.

Unlicensed dispensaries shuttered for city code enforcement violations often pop up again, sometimes right down the street. And cultivation sites like the one raided in Antelope Valley often resume operations just days later, law enforcement officials concede.

Every state establishing a legal market has had to contend with illicit operations, but the underground market in California is far more entrenched. Many of today’s unlicensed businesses legally served customers for decades under the state’s medical marijuana laws that passed in 1996 but went underground after voters approved the recreational pot initiative Proposition 64 passed in 2016. Some operated in cities that banned weed sales, while others balked at the new regulatory fees and taxes.

The new law forced longtime business owners to make tough decisions, said Elizabeth Ashford, vice president of communications at cannabis delivery company Eaze.

“They were totally allowed under the law just minutes ago,” she said looking back to when the new regulations were established. “Did anybody really think those folks would just be like, ‘Well okay, we’re just going to close our doors’?”

California’s cannabis law lets local officials decide whether to open the door to cannabis or slam it shut. So far, most are opting for the latter.

A whopping 68 percent of California cities ban cannabis retail, including wide swaths of the Central Valley. Other areas have imposed strict caps on the number of available licenses, limiting market growth.

San Diego has just 25 pot shops for a population of 1.4 million; San Jose has 16 stores for 1 million people.

Some local officials say the industry harms children or argue dispensaries would attract crime. Others point to the difficulty of drafting ordinances, complying with strict environmental reviews and dealing with potential lawsuits from applicants who aren’t awarded licenses.

Public meetings in places like Mountain View in the Silicon Valley and Anaheim have devolved into hours-long marathons filled with protests and name calling when the topic of allowing cannabis shops comes up.

Spiker, who helps develop local cannabis regulations, said some elected officials fear a pro-cannabis stance could cost them their seats.

“Just because Prop. 64 passed in a community at say 60 percent, it doesn’t mean that the 40 percent that voted ‘no’ won’t organize a recall effort or a strenuous bid to get you thrown out of office your next election,” he said.

The dearth of retail stores — and legal shelf space — gives unlicensed businesses a large, unserved consumer base. It also contributes to an oversupply of goods produced by the state’s 6,000 licensed cultivators that has caused the price of wholesale cannabis to plummet, hurting legal growers.

“Local control has, let’s just be honest, crippled the California market and prevented it from reaching its potential,” said Hirsh Jain, founder of cannabis consulting firm Ananda Strategy.

Industry leaders say there is little chance state lawmakers will take away that power, largely due to fierce support for local control from law enforcement and city and county officials.

Citizen initiatives and Covid-related budget deficits have spurred some jurisdictions to open their arms to weed. By Jain’s count, 28 cities will open their first dispensaries in 2022 and 37 more that will pass a retail ordinance.

Businesses that manage to secure a license have another problem: competing with their unregulated competitors.

The price of cannabis products sold in legal dispensaries can be two to three times higher than nearly identical items sold in unlicensed shops, which aren’t subject to cultivation or excise taxes that drive up costs for retailers.

Some buyers see little incentive to pay more for a legal product.

“Price is the biggest motivator for consumer choice,” Ashford said. “We know that from our own data, there’s no question that if you make things less expensive people will buy them.”

The difference between the legal and the illegal is not always obvious. Underground dispensaries are often indistinguishable from licensed shops and sell similar-looking items that may be counterfeit or diverted from the legal market. Illicit delivery services are also listed right next to legitimate operators on platforms like Google and Yelp.

Regulators warn that products purchased from unlicensed retailers pose a public health risk, pointing to a rash of lung illnesses related to untested vape cartridges that killed 68 people and hospitalized more than 2,800 nationwide in 2019.

Pro-cannabis state lawmakers have tried unsuccessfully to slash the tax burden in the face of opposition from SEIU, the powerful union that helped bankroll the 2016 ballot measure. The union disagrees with the industry argument that reducing tax rates will spur growth and eventually boost tax revenue, said Robert Harris, a lobbyist for SEIU.

“I’ve never heard of an industry that didn’t say, ‘Reduce our taxes, we’ll sell more and you’ll make more,’” he said.

Leaders within the cannabis industry say finding a solution for the tax problem is their top priority for next year. Nicole Elliott, director of the state Department of Cannabis Control, telegraphed that they might get support from Gov. Gavin Newsom, who championed Prop. 64 while running for office in 2016.

“I imagine that the administration will be very happy to partner with the Legislature on those discussions,” she said.

But finding consensus on a tax plan will be challenging. There is disagreement, for instance, about whether a tax cut should happen on the cultivation or retail side.

Lawmakers and Capitol staffers say this disunity makes legislative fixes nearly impossible to pass and perpetuates the status quo. That’s a scenario the industry can’t afford, given “the overhead costs that the illegal guy doesn’t do,” Spiker warned.

“The divide between legal and illegal is too big a gap to overcome.”


My favorite line.... Many of those factors are baked into California law.. Good stuff.
I'm shocked SHOCKED California's government made a mistake.

You'd think states would talk with leaders of states which have made the jump and learn from their mistakes and apply the lessons learned. Perhaps that is too revolutionary a concept.


8trackdisco Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 56,449
BuckyB93 wrote:
The whole opioid crisis was (is) seriously bad. I lay that at the feet of both big pharma and their partnership with government.



Yes. Wonder how we could even calculate how many people could be eased off of opioids and treat people with PTSD with something natural, without having a laundry list of side effects.
8trackdisco Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 56,449
rfenst wrote:
Florida's legislature is 2/3 Republican. We had a ballot state constitutional amendment vote and medical passed by over 70%. Legislature purposely dragged its feet like two to three years to enact enabling statutes that applied to the new constitutional right. They were/are draconian.

Then, some of tried to get THC maximum cut to like 5%. You'd have to smoke 3-4x more flower. Not a healthier requirement.

So, the State Supreme had to tell the legislature to get its @ss moving or it would rule.

Finally, DeSantis started charging as much as $50 million per license to grow and sell. BIG bucks, eh? Why doesn't he charge CVS the same if it is constitutionally declared a legal medicine?

And, after all that finally got worked out, our wonderful Republican legislators tired to make it even more difficult for Florida citizens to be able to vote to amend our constitution and such in the future, by putting limits on who can canvass for ballot signatures, and how much any one (as opposed to an election candidate) single can contribute to like just $3k to promote a cause like this. What about free speech?

Pathetic.


Well.... that is less than uplifting. (don't want threadjack my own thread- but.... He's also one of the top three guys the elephants are going to be promoting. Greaaaaat.).

Maybe with all these counter productive and idiotic time and money wasters, he's got his eyes on the White House and is trying to attract democratic voters.
frankj1 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 41,506
8trackdisco wrote:
Yes. Wonder how we could even calculate how many people could be eased off of opioids and treat people with PTSD with something natural, without having a laundry list of side effects.

can you handle the ensuing shortage of cheetos?
8trackdisco Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 56,449
frankj1 wrote:
can you handle the ensuing shortage of cheetos?



Living in a cheese producing state, we might get Riiiiiiiich, Beooootch!
8trackdisco Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 56,449
frankj1 wrote:
can you handle the ensuing shortage of cheetos?


Orange Snacks Matter!
Orange Snacks Matter!
Orange Snacks Matter!
BuckyB93 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 12,256
(psst... I don't think Cheetos contain any cheese)
8trackdisco Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 56,449
BuckyB93 wrote:
(psst... I don't think Cheetos contain any cheese)



Please see Knowledge Recently Acquired thread... yah blasphemer.
BuckyB93 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 12,256
I stand corrected.
8trackdisco Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 56,449
frankj1 wrote:
can you handle the ensuing shortage of cheetos?



scratching out grocery list manically.

Cheetos.
Cheetos.
More Cheetos.

and.
Cheetos.
8trackdisco Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 56,449
BuckyB93 wrote:
I stand corrected.


I forgive you.
BuckyB93 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 12,256
8trackdisco wrote:
scratching out grocery list manically.

Cheetos.
Cheetos.
More Cheetos.

and.
Cheetos.


I sure could go for a bag of Cheetos right about now. I'm sure you could too so add them back onto the list. The puffy ones, not the crunch ones. Sometimes I go for the crunchy ones but today is not the day for crunchy ones.

There are a lot of Cheeto like snacks and off brand cheesey snacks that pretend they are Cheetos but they just aren't the same. Even the Cheeto balls and Cheeto paw shaped ones... not the same. Prolly made from the same ingredients and chemically identical to the original ones but they just don't taste the same. Prolly a mental thing on my end.

In summary, I could go for a bag of puff Cheetos right about now. Tomorrow may be different and I'd want the crunchy ones.

I'll also need a napkin or a shirt to wipe of the Cheeto stuff that's left on your fingers. Preferably a dark shirt. A white shirt would be a dead give away that you were eating Cheetos.

Two NINE!
frankj1 Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 41,506
this may not go over well, but I'd reach for the cheez its, given a choice
Sunoverbeach Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 10,737
I had a pretty serious cheez its problem a couple years back
frankj1 Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 41,506
I understand
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