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VERY unpopular opinion. But I'm used to that.
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tailgater Offline
#1 Posted: Thu, Jan 5 2023, 8:59 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Bills/Bengals should have finished the game.

NOT playing doesn't do anything to assist the injured player. It doesn't help him recover. Or survive.
So it's not "for" him. It's for the other members of the teams.

I get it: it was traumatic.
But in football we often have people get carried off the field. And typically it's because of the play on the field. This wasn't. It could have happened while raking leaves or playing with his kid, and there wouldn't have been medical personnel nearby to save his life.


But to get back on point, the NFL has now set a precedent.
They must cancel games when somebody goes down unconscious. Otherwise it will be deemed insensitive.

I get the human factor. And I don't blame the coaches or the refs.
There's a reason Goodell makes $50MM a year. He needed to step up and make the difficult call. You can't leave it ambiguous. You can't say "take the time you need". You have to say "Wow. That was unsettling. Hope he's OK. Let's break for 15 minutes and come back out here and make him proud."

They screwed the pooch on this one. And it's gonna come back to bite them in the azz.
Jakethesnake86 Offline
#2 Posted: Thu, Jan 5 2023, 9:09 PM EST
Joined: 12-29-2020
Posts: 4,250
I think they only canceled in this situation because he was dead laying in the grass. Not because he was unconscious. I think the call was right at that specific moment none of the players or fans were interested in football
This was the most serious injury ever on a football field I didn’t think he would live through the night.

I do believe the game should be finished. Exactly where it left off. Obviously that changes momentum and such But I don’t see another way.
Palama Offline
#3 Posted: Thu, Jan 5 2023, 10:54 PM EST
Joined: 02-05-2013
Posts: 23,819
Jakethesnake86 wrote:
I think they only canceled in this situation because he was dead laying in the grass. Not because he was unconscious. I think the call was right at that specific moment none of the players or fans were interested in football
This was the most serious injury ever on a football field I didn’t think he would live through the night.

I do believe the game should be finished. Exactly where it left off. Obviously that changes momentum and such But I don’t see another way.


Agree with JTS except for the part about Hamlin’s injury being the most serious injury on the football field. Chuck Hughes died during a game in 1971.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Hughes
Whistlebritches Offline
#4 Posted: Thu, Jan 5 2023, 10:58 PM EST
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
Palama wrote:
Agree with JTS except for the part about Hamlin’s injury being the most serious injury on the football field. Chuck Hughes died during a game in 1971.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Hughes


Yes sir Chuck was a local boy,graduated from Abilene High.Only NFL player ever to die on the field.Still sad to this day.


As for the game...........I'm just glad I wasn't the one who had to make that decision.
ZRX1200 Offline
#5 Posted: Thu, Jan 5 2023, 11:24 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,662
They should have finished, it was the fantasy championship week and I have Mixon and Josh Allen.
MACS Offline
#6 Posted: Fri, Jan 6 2023, 9:38 AM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,888
I agree they should have finished. Incredibly important game, and now how do they finish it?
drglnc Offline
#7 Posted: Fri, Jan 6 2023, 9:50 AM EST
Joined: 04-01-2019
Posts: 718
If they didn't have to use an AED and perform CPR on the field just to keep him alive i would probably agree.

This was a bit more then an unconscious player. This was a dead player that had to be revived and then kept alive manually on the field so an ambulance could be brought to get him.

as for "But in football we often have people get carried off the field. And typically it's because of the play on the field. This wasn't. It could have happened while raking leaves or playing with his kid, and there wouldn't have been medical personnel nearby to save his life"... They didn't know at the time what happened/caused it. they didn't know what caused it and the Doctors have now said that it most likely WAS due to the play on the field. they are saying it was probably the Hit that was in the perfect spot at the perfect time that caused it.

I have no problem with he postponement but i do feel they should have had the game continue the next day or Wednesday. they could have insured both teams games for this weekend are Sunday instead of Saturday and then it would have bene no different then a Sunday team playing the following Thursday.
drglnc Offline
#8 Posted: Fri, Jan 6 2023, 9:52 AM EST
Joined: 04-01-2019
Posts: 718
MACS wrote:
I agree they should have finished. Incredibly important game, and now how do they finish it?

they don't... they already announced that the game is not being played and that the score/stats are what they are.

The NFL has canceled the Bills-Bengals game that was previously postponed on Monday night. The league has also planned a vote Friday with two adjustments for the AFC playoffs on the table.

While the NFL's cancellation decision will not impact which teams make the playoffs, it may impact seedings, which is why the league has come up with several potential rule changes to even out the competitive inequities that not playing the game will create.

Under the proposal that will be voted on by owners, the AFC Championship could potentially become a neutral-site game if any of the three following scenarios are met:

Scenario 1: If Buffalo and Kansas City both win or both tie in Week 18, then a Buffalo vs. Kansas City championship game would be at a neutral site.
Scenario 2: If the Bills and Chiefs both lose in Week 18 and Baltimore wins or ties with the Bengals, then a Buffalo vs. Kansas City championship game would be at a neutral site.
Scenario 3: If Buffalo and Kansas City both lose and Cincinnati beats Baltimore, then a Bills or Bengals vs. Chiefs championship game would be at a neutral site.

The NFL is also giving the Ravens a chance to possibly host a wild-card game even though Baltimore can't mathematically win the AFC North. Even if the Ravens win on Sunday against the Bengals, that would put them at 11-6, which would still be a half game behind the Cincinnati, who would finish 11-5 with a loss.


Under that scenario, the Ravens wouldn't win the division even though they swept the Bengals AND had a better division record. To fix that problem, the proposal on the table is that the NFL will flip a coin to see who hosts a Ravens-Bengals wild-card game if:

1. The Ravens beat the Bengals on Sunday, and ...
2. If the two teams are scheduled to play each other in the wild-card round.

Both the AFC Championship proposal and the Ravens proposal will be voted on Friday.
MACS Offline
#9 Posted: Fri, Jan 6 2023, 11:21 AM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,888
^Just saw that. Incredibly unfair to those 2 teams. Standings and playoff seeding are now affected. Pretty dumb.
tonygraz Offline
#10 Posted: Fri, Jan 6 2023, 2:40 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,320
One of those things that will promote disagreement. I've been involved in two games where a player had to be taken off the field and in neither case was the game postponed or cancelled. In one case the injured player's team was motivated to win, but did not.
Palama Offline
#11 Posted: Fri, Jan 6 2023, 3:53 PM EST
Joined: 02-05-2013
Posts: 23,819
It’s one thing for a player to be injured and carried / walks off the the playing field. Even if an ambulance has to be called in and take the player to the hospital, he / she is relatively okay. As noted by Charles, in Hamlin’s case, he died and had to be resuscitated so that’s a whole different story. They had to perform CPR on him for 9 minutes! I’m sure his teammates felt like it was 90.

For me, the fact that it happened on a seemingly “normal” play would, if I were a player at that game, shake me to the core and I wouldn’t want to continue to play in a game that, juxtaposed to what had happened, be totally meaningless.
rfenst Offline
#12 Posted: Fri, Jan 6 2023, 4:16 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,436
I say it needed to be played the next day.
ZRX1200 Offline
#13 Posted: Fri, Jan 6 2023, 4:45 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,662
I think the league reaction is in large part due to the media 💩 storm when Tua got hurt on a Thursday night game.
delta1 Offline
#14 Posted: Fri, Jan 6 2023, 7:00 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,823
they shoulda just dug a 6 foot hole, threw Hamlin in and resumed the game...human race has gone soft since the gladiators fought and died, drenched in blood and gore, in the arena...where have you gone Russell Crowe?
HockeyDad Offline
#15 Posted: Fri, Jan 6 2023, 7:15 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,196
They way his recovery is going maybe they delay it a week and he will be able to play in the makeup game.
Palama Offline
#16 Posted: Fri, Jan 6 2023, 7:26 PM EST
Joined: 02-05-2013
Posts: 23,819
HockeyDad wrote:
They way his recovery is going maybe they delay it a week and he will be able to play in the makeup game.


Too late in the season to re-schedule.
tonygraz Offline
#17 Posted: Fri, Jan 6 2023, 8:05 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,320
Coincidence ? Postponement of Sunday's Big East women's game Uconn against Depaul was just announced today because Uconn cannot put 7 healthy scholarship players on the floor in accordance with BiG East conference rules. They have been playing with 7 or 8 for over a month now and went from 8 to 6 with 2 injuries in last night's game, Uconn currently is ranked 5th in the nation despite all the injuries (including a former player of the year).
Mr. Jones Online
#18 Posted: Fri, Jan 6 2023, 10:08 PM EST
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,467
I am just super curious???

The guy is 24...

How many seasons did he play so far?

Does every player get an unconditional disability insurance policy upon day one of signing with a pro NFL FRANCHISE?

DO YOU THINK THIS KID WILL EVER PLAY AGAIN?
( I HIGHLY DOUBT IT)

I PERSONALLY THINK the kid should get a $250k to $500k
Guaranteed salary for life for what happened to him at such a young age...maybe even given a good job for life at the NFL HEADQUARTERS IF SUCH A DISABILITY POLICY DOES NOT EXIST...HE DESERVES SOMETHING FROM THE LEAGUE...

HE BETTER NOT JUST GET KICKED TO THE CURB and told sighh-A-NARRROW and the NFL hope he goes away and he gets no money at all ....

THAT NFL LEADER ( RogerGoodell)IS A PRICK!!!
HE WANTED A PRIVATE JET AND HEALTH INSURANCE FOR HIS ENTIRE FAMILY FOR LIFE!!! HIM, HIS WIFE AND HIS SPAWN ( WHICH is really rediculous)...in his last salary very recent negotiations...

He better not screw this poor kid over...
rfenst Offline
#19 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2023, 8:33 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,436
Mr. Jones wrote:
...I PERSONALLY THINK the kid should get a $250k to $500k
Guaranteed salary for life for what happened to him at such a young age...maybe even given a good job for life at the NFL HEADQUARTERS IF SUCH A DISABILITY POLICY DOES NOT EXIST...HE DESERVES SOMETHING FROM THE LEAGUE...

HE BETTER NOT JUST GET KICKED TO THE CURB and told sighh-A-NARRROW and the NFL hope he goes away and he gets no money at all ....

I agree they owe all his related medical expenses over the course of the rest of his life. I sure hope his contract was front-end heavy, but I doubt it. I would support lifetime disability payments for him until he is able to return (if ever), but perhaps not as great as you suggest.
DrafterX Offline
#20 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2023, 9:14 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,588
So, suppose Hamlin was on da sideline sipping Gatorade while checking out cheerleaders and got leveled by an out of bounds tackle.... 250-500k for the rest of his life..?? Huh
burning_sticks Offline
#21 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2023, 11:05 AM EST
Joined: 08-17-2020
Posts: 152
I'm just torqued they aren't just following their own rules, which call for the use of winning percentage as the determining factor going forward to settle the season. Who do they think they are some state legislature, changing voting rules midstream?
rfenst Offline
#22 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2023, 1:01 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,436
DrafterX wrote:
So, suppose Hamlin was on da sideline sipping Gatorade while checking out cheerleaders and got leveled by an out of bounds tackle.... 250-500k for the rest of his life..?? Huh

Yes. He would still be on the job. His earning potential was incredible and he should be treated like any other employee injured on the job.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#23 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2023, 2:03 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,715
If there is disability somewhere in the terms, I'd bet there's some calculation for number of years. A professional athletes "ability to work" is temporary in the best of circumstances
Palama Offline
#24 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2023, 2:28 PM EST
Joined: 02-05-2013
Posts: 23,819
The updates have been so positive, I wouldn’t be too surprised if we see him back on the field in a few weeks (…assuming Buffalo wins a playoff game or two…).

Our fantasy football league donated $50 to his charity toy foundation:

https://www.gofundme.com/f/mxksc-the-chasing-ms-foundation-community-toy-drive
BuckyB93 Offline
#25 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2023, 3:10 PM EST
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,243
Before returning to the field, I would be cautious If I were him.

I would want to get as much assurances and tests done as I could to try to determine what caused it. Is there a real underlying heart condition (for one reason or another like genetics, a flaw in my ticker...) or was it that one in a million thing where a blow to the chest at the exact time of the heart beat cycle interrupted things.

If it's the former, I'd steer away from playing again. If it's the latter then take the rest of the year off to make sure everything is working right and come back next year.
tonygraz Offline
#26 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2023, 4:31 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,320
Many football players that are seriously injured in a game never play as well in a comeback. The thought of what happened is hard to get out of their mind.
Jakethesnake86 Offline
#27 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2023, 5:33 PM EST
Joined: 12-29-2020
Posts: 4,250
I don’t think he’ll play again. I’m not sure how I feel about paying someone 250k a year. Football is a game. I think they should take care of the young man for sure if he’s permanently disabled

Plenty of players are injured and forced out of sports in general. I think it’s up to the young man himself to figure out how to make a living moving forward. If he is disabled for life that’s different. If he can work, well…

I also believe there’s unknown problems or this type of situation would happen more frequently. It wasn’t a violent hit. Pretty standard.

I do hope he can play again but I don’t think it would be a wise move
DrafterX Offline
#28 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2023, 5:35 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,588
Well, you said you'd never go camping with ZRX again but look where that got you... Mellow
MACS Offline
#29 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2023, 7:11 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,888
DrafterX wrote:
Well, you said you'd never go camping with ZRX again but look where that got you... Mellow


Ball gagged in a van down by the river?
DrafterX Offline
#30 Posted: Sat, Jan 7 2023, 7:27 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,588
Every weekend... or so I heard...Mellow
ZRX1200 Offline
#31 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2023, 12:21 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,662
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/damar-hamlins-collapse-highlights-the-violence-black-men-experience-in-football/?amp=true&fbclid=IwAR0CXCKDOAGKz4LpkJiu6qv29QYudkM9fkLjmrfhPGCappuuoziU6bhv6d4&mibextid=Zxz2cZ
8trackdisco Offline
#32 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2023, 12:59 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,103
Palama wrote:
Agree with JTS except for the part about Hamlin’s injury being the most serious injury on the football field. Chuck Hughes died during a game in 1971.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Hughes


Daryl Stingley got paralyzed on the field against the Raiders. That game carried on.

The big thing I disagree with on T-Gators post is, there is NO good reason Roger Goddell should earn 50 million a year.
8trackdisco Offline
#33 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2023, 1:06 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,103
MACS wrote:
I agree they should have finished. Incredibly important game, and now how do they finish it?


And if the AFC championship game is between KC & Buffalo, it has to be played on a neutral field? Chiefs lose the earned home field advantage? A horrible disservice to a season's worth being the best in the conference.
ZRX1200 Offline
#34 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2023, 1:21 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,662
Bills are responsible for his medical but he doesn’t deserve any $ any regular employee would be subject to.
dkeage Offline
#35 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2023, 1:30 PM EST
Joined: 03-05-2004
Posts: 15,161
8trackdisco wrote:
And if the AFC championship game is between KC & Buffalo, it has to be played on a neutral field? Chiefs lose the earned home field advantage? A horrible disservice to a season's worth being the best in the conference.

Not a chefs fan, but that is very wrong
BuckyB93 Offline
#36 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2023, 2:22 PM EST
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,243
ZRX1200 wrote:
Bills are responsible for his medical but he doesn’t deserve any $ any regular employee would be subject to.


^ This.
Not to be cold hearted and stuff...

Most full time employment compensation packages include things like accidental death and dismemberment (AD&D) insurance paid fully or in part by the employer. I'm sure his contract includes this. He's a member of a union after all.

Prolly has some nice benefits that the average person doesn't have. If not, his agent sucks.
Jakethesnake86 Offline
#37 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2023, 2:55 PM EST
Joined: 12-29-2020
Posts: 4,250
Agreed with both you guys Bucky /Z.
ZRX1200 Offline
#38 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2023, 3:02 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,662
I’ve always thought the NFL made enough money if they were serious about claiming to be about safety they should group fund one medical research building. And have it available to retired players and as a learning and research facility for medical staff. They could do scholarships for contracts like ROTC…..just a thought I had.
Palama Offline
#39 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2023, 3:34 PM EST
Joined: 02-05-2013
Posts: 23,819
ZRX1200 wrote:
I’ve always thought the NFL made enough money if they were serious about claiming to be about safety they should group fund one medical research building. And have it available to retired players and as a learning and research facility for medical staff. They could do scholarships for contracts like ROTC…..just a thought I had.


All talk, no walk.

If the League were REALLY serious about player safety, they wouldn’t have Thursday games without some sort of scheduling relief (e.g., having a bye week prior to the Thursday game), wouldn’t have expanded to 17, even 16 games and condensed the bye weeks instead of starting them so early and then going so late.

But hey, it’s all about the $$$ so nothing that makes sense will ever be incorporated…at least nothing from us.
ZRX1200 Offline
#40 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2023, 4:50 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,662
Truth.
MACS Offline
#41 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2023, 6:32 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,888
And not playing the game, and calling it a no contest when Cincy was winning... screwed Cincy, and rewarded Buffalo and KC.

Cincy won today and is still relegated to the 3rd seed when they beat KC and were beating Buffalo.

I'm no Cincy fan, but that's some serious BS.
tailgater Offline
#42 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2023, 6:32 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
they shoulda just dug a 6 foot hole, threw Hamlin in and resumed the game...human race has gone soft since the gladiators fought and died, drenched in blood and gore, in the arena...where have you gone Russell Crowe?


You're finally coming around.
tailgater Offline
#43 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2023, 6:36 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185

I'm not even sure why this is a debate. The wrong choice was made, but everybody wants to pretend like it was the right one.
MACS Offline
#44 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2023, 6:40 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,888
8trackdisco wrote:
And if the AFC championship game is between KC & Buffalo, it has to be played on a neutral field? Chiefs lose the earned home field advantage? A horrible disservice to a season's worth being the best in the conference.


Cincy won today. If they had beaten Buffalo, which they were... they get the #1 seed due to beating KC. If anyone has a right to be pissed about the whole deal it's Cincy, not KC. They were handed the #1 seed by the league.
ZRX1200 Offline
#45 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2023, 6:53 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,662
Al did you lose FFL because of this too???
tailgater Offline
#46 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2023, 7:01 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
The league is pushing fantasy football. There are likely hundreds of millions, or maybe more invested in it.
Then they go and cancel a game that had "playoff" implications.

It might feel cold to mention the dollars and cents, but resuming the game wouldn't have a made a lick of difference to Hamlin.
tailgater Offline
#47 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2023, 7:07 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
in a previous life, my office had a glass front wall and was within a collection of offices that were situated around a dozen desks set up for the secretaries. In other words, you could see everybody and they could see you.

Our National Sales manager keeled over. We thought it was a heart attack, and he was given CPR by some co-workers and then the paramedics when they arrived.
We thought he was as good as dead when they carried him out.

Then we went back to work.

It took a while, and it was surreal. But we eventually were making calls and doing work stuff.




The manager didn't suffer a heart attack, it was some kind of aneurysm. And he lived. Which is weird.
Because after all, we all went back to work after they carted him out...
8trackdisco Offline
#48 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2023, 7:13 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,103
tailgater wrote:

It might feel cold to mention the dollars and cents, but resuming the game wouldn't have a made a lick of difference to Hamlin.


Yep, Hamlin wasn't watching. Knowing the NFL, they turned the TV on in the ICU so they got the additional rating.
frankj1 Offline
#49 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2023, 7:30 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,252
8trackdisco wrote:
Daryl Stingley got paralyzed on the field against the Raiders. That game carried on.


and that was a preseason/exhibition game!

as to the op, I think a major part of the decision was the effect it had on the players.
the original league reaction was to take five, get composed, return to action.

Seemed like the coaches may have represented their players feelings about having seen a person die, albeit temporarily, as opposed to even seeing a severe injury...something they all know could happen on any play to themselves...but who has ever entered the arena thinking they may take their last breath during the game?
8trackdisco Offline
#50 Posted: Sun, Jan 8 2023, 7:43 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,103
frankj1 wrote:
and that was a preseason/exhibition game!

as to the op, I think a major part of the decision was the effect it had on the players.
the original league reaction was to take five, get composed, return to action.

Seemed like the coaches may have represented their players feelings about having seen a person die, albeit temporarily, as opposed to even seeing a severe injury...something they all know could happen on any play to themselves...but who has ever entered the arena thinking they may take their last breath during the game?


18 months ago, same thing happened in the European (Football) Championship Tournament. A player from Denmark, Christian Erikson was walking, crumpled to the ground. It was spooky as you could see his eyes were fixed. His heart had stopped, medical personnel got his heart going and off to the hospital he went.

The game was delayed several hours but then restarted/completed. Same day. Guess Europe is tougher than Americans. Comes with home field advantage for two world wars. They truly know misery. They keep the stiff upper lip.

WARNING: Link below has some soccer content (speaking of unpopular content).

https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/2021/6/12/22530951/christian-eriksen-collapses-denmark-finland-european-championship
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