America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 3 months ago by Abrignac. 17 replies replies.
Civil Forfeiture Victims to Get Jury Trials in Indiana
Jump to Bottom | Previous Topic | Next Topic
Gene363 Offline
#1 Posted: Mon, Nov 13 2023, 11:03 AM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838
Great news, I hope it's a trend across the USA. Civil asset forfeiture is as close to crime as you can get.

It will be fascinating to hear prosecutors explaining to a jury how your money is criminal and should be forfeited despite you, the owner, not being guilty of any crime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFmq_DQfZQ4
ZRX1200 Offline
#2 Posted: Mon, Nov 13 2023, 1:30 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
Amen.
Homebrew Offline
#3 Posted: Mon, Nov 13 2023, 4:41 PM EST
Joined: 02-11-2003
Posts: 11,885
I hope that, in the absence of a crime, they allow them to go after them for damages, on top of the return of the originally conviscated money.

Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)Beer
RayR Offline
#4 Posted: Mon, Nov 13 2023, 5:01 PM EST
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,927
No civil asset forfeiture? That's no way to run an authoritarian regime. What's next? Outlawing criminal prosecutions for Thought Crimes?

Coincidentally, in 1984 Congress passed a law allowing civil asset forfeitures. Orwell would be proud.
Originally intended to be used against drug kingpins and the mob, as always the government gets carried away when they smell loot that can be stolen legally.
Mr. Jones Offline
#5 Posted: Mon, Nov 13 2023, 6:33 PM EST
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,443
Tons of C.A.S.H. IN YOUR POSSESSION???

YOU BETTER HAVE DOCUMENTATION OF HOW YOU EARNED IT....

OR


THE COPS JUST TAKE IT AND YOULL NEVER GET IT BACK.
rfenst Offline
#6 Posted: Mon, Nov 13 2023, 7:57 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
Mr. Jones wrote:
Tons of C.A.S.H. IN YOUR POSSESSION???

YOU BETTER HAVE DOCUMENTATION OF HOW YOU EARNED IT....

OR


THE COPS JUST TAKE IT AND YOULL NEVER GET IT BACK.

All but one civil forfeiture case (on both sides) I was involved in involved known drug dealers. The other one quickly documented where the cash (90K) came from and why he had so much cash in his posesion, so he got it back quickly.

The others stupidly and voluntarily consented to searches and when the cash was found, they denied knowing it was there or that it was theirs. No sympathy here for the crooked ones.

Florida gives you "two "bites at the apple." The first "bite "is with the judge to challenge probable cause on an emergent basis, and can result in dismissal and return of the $$ pretty quickly, all things considered. The second bite is a quick jury trial on the full merit of the seizure.

Bottom line is to never give a cop permission to search and never deny the $$ is yours if it is legal.
ZRX1200 Offline
#7 Posted: Tue, Nov 14 2023, 1:55 AM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
Lying to a cop, terrible crime.

Cop lying, solid investigative tool.
rfenst Offline
#8 Posted: Tue, Nov 14 2023, 7:05 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
ZRX1200 wrote:
Lying to a cop, terrible crime.

Cop lying, solid investigative tool.

Yes.
See SCOTUS opinion(s).
MACS Offline
#9 Posted: Tue, Nov 14 2023, 7:09 AM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,823
rfenst wrote:
Yes.
See SCOTUS opinion(s).


Agree. Lying on the stand is not the same as lying to a criminal to solve a crime.

Cops should absolutely NOT lie in reports or in any other circumstance... except to fool a criminal.
rfenst Offline
#10 Posted: Tue, Nov 14 2023, 7:12 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
MACS wrote:
Agree. Lying on the stand is not the same as lying to a criminal to solve a crime.

Cops should absolutely NOT lie in reports or in any other circumstance... except to fool a criminal.

Agreed.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#11 Posted: Tue, Nov 14 2023, 10:13 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
My bad....thought this was the Bobby Knight memorial thread.

RIP Sluggo.
ZRX1200 Offline
#12 Posted: Tue, Nov 14 2023, 3:19 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
Yeah they shouldn’t lie in reports or in court right….

Thank God that never happens, love that qualified immunity.
rfenst Offline
#13 Posted: Tue, Nov 14 2023, 3:24 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
ZRX1200 wrote:
Yeah they shouldn’t lie in reports or in court right….

Thank God that never happens, love that qualified immunity.

Unscrupulous prosecutors refer to it as "testilying."

The good ones refuse to put the cop on the stand or let the cop tell the whole story as a narrative- without asking any questions to benefit the testimony.

Too much of the legal system involves professionals lying on the stand.
Mr. Jones Offline
#14 Posted: Tue, Nov 14 2023, 9:26 PM EST
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,443
Don't get me started on lying cops!!!!

Dont even mention dirty cops...I met several hundred
over 6+ yrs...

Dont even mention "honest cops"...I never knew one or met one my entire life...
ZRX1200 Offline
#15 Posted: Wed, Nov 15 2023, 4:16 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
https://reason.com/2022/01/18/kansas-and-california-cops-used-civil-forfeiture-to-stage-armored-car-heists-stealing-money-earned-by-licensed-marijuana-businesses/


More “good guys”….with great power comes great responsibility, I’m glad all the responsibilities are foisted upon citizens who have rights, and are being treated by people who get special protections.


How about we end qualified immunity and bring back hangings for oath breakers.
RayR Offline
#16 Posted: Wed, Nov 15 2023, 6:19 PM EST
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,927
In the wild west there were gangs of thieves who robbed stage coaches. Fast forward to the 21st Centry and it's now the law men who rob armored cars.
Abrignac Offline
#17 Posted: Fri, Feb 2 2024, 8:34 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
ZRX1200 wrote:
Yeah they shouldn’t lie in reports or in court right….

Thank God that never happens, love that qualified immunity.


Actually prosecutors or required to keep what’s known as a Brady List. It’s a list of officers who have been proven to be untruthful. Among other reasons it’s pretty much an affirmative grounds for an appeal if any of the testimony given in any way has an effect on the verdict. As such an officer who is listed on that list should never put on the stand.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Back to Top