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Last post 21 years ago by RobertParrott. 18 replies replies.
Is This Fair?
Jeffersonn Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 01-15-2002
Posts: 105
I live in California and was reviewing the governor's Budget Summary for 2002/3 over the holiday ( I know, but I do find it interesting...)
Here's a fact that I'd like your opinion on:
In the state of CA, those making 100k or more per year comprise only 10% of taxpayers yet pay approximately 75% of all income tax received by the state (those are NOT typo's...)
At the other end of the scale, those making 20k or less per year represent 37 percent of all CA taxpayers and pay... ready?... only 0.5%, yes, less than one percent of taxes recvd by the state.

One other look: those that make 50k and up (approx 30% of the taxpayers)pay about 92% of the state's income tax, leaving the rest of the population (70% of the state's taxpayers) to pay only 8%.
KEEP THIS IN MIND WHEN IT IS SUGGESTED WE "TAX THE RICH" TO BALANCE THE STATE BUDGET!
So, I ask you, is this fair?
xrundog Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
That's California. It's not fair. It's how you get the vote of that 70%! They do love their social programs in Ca. you know.
Sonny_LSU Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 11-21-2002
Posts: 1,835
Do remember that you could be looking at a logrithmic relationship between total income of the wealthy versus the lower income bracket. For example, if 10 people earn a total of $5 billion and 1000 people earn $50k, the 10 people make 1000 times more money than the 1000!
SteveS Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
Fair or unfair, what it IS is logical ... given the entire nature of the graduated income tax boondoggle in the first place, just who did you expect would be paying the bulk of the tax burden ??? IF one assumes (as I do not) that there is anything "fair" about the graduated income tax in the first place, who do you think SHOULD be paying the lion's share of the tax ?? ... SHOULD those with low incomes be more heavily taxed? ... SHOULD those who are lucky and/or good enough to make a six figure income be even MORE disproportionately penalized for their luck/ability? ... would you not agree there are more men than women whose income is in the $50k - $100k range ? ... or do women whose income is in that range somehow manage to pay a lower rate of tax? ... if so, how?

Hey, let's face it ... 75 years ago, a tax on incomes was still not constitutionally permitted ... then, during the Great Depression, FDR (hero of the masses) pushed the idea of an income tax onto the public and got the ammendment passed which would allow it ... the bill of goods that was sold to the voters was that it would be a "graduated" tax which would not fall on the shoulders of the average working man, but would stick it to the "big corporations" and to the "rich" ... well, the voters couldn't see what inflation would bring and bought the plan ... a tax falling on SOMEone else always sounds better than one falling on ones own self ... and who WERE the rich??? with the average guy making less than $5k, an income of $25k looked huge ... an income of $50k surely constituted riches ...

So, just wait 'til inflation kicks in for a little longer ... 'til the average guy is making $75k and those with a little luck, initiative and ability who are in that range now have income that've risen to $150-200k ... given the confiscatory nature of the graduated income tax, you'll have a hell of a lot more to complain about then than you do now, because in terms of the original model, you won't just be unimaginably rich, you'll be FILTHY rich ...
Tobasco Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809
Sonny, You are speaking of a very few when you get into incomes that high.
I made about 90K last year. My wife part time,20K. Add it up.
People in other states probably would think I live a custom home on a golf course or in the foothills. Well I dont.
As a matter of fact. With taxes & cost of living in the SF/Bay area. We are average! Its NOT fair.
I have owned my business 15yrs. Automatic transmission repair. The licensing & EPA & insurances are bad news as well.
Dont get me wrong. We are doing well. But not as well as I could elswhere. Thats the breaks I guess.

Mag
SteveS Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
Mag, I don't think I was clear about my own position ... I agree ... it's not fair ... in fact, the whole damn set-up is unfair ... the government is the single entity best able to help control inflation, but as the main beneficiary of inflation, they have no real interest in doing so ... in fact, their interest is best served by continued inflation ...

The public was sold a bill of goods by a president who knew full well what he was doing ... we've got a huge and out of control monster on our hands now instead of a reasonably sized properly run government, whether at the state or federal level ... the monster feeds on US, the taxpayers, like a gargantuan parasite ...

What I'm saying is if you think it's unfair now, wait a few years ... it'll get even more so ... as your income rises to meet inflation, you rise even further into what was viewed as the frickin' stratosphere when the scale was established ... you AREN'T rich, except by the standards of the day when the tax program was set up ... and because you're making what was then a rich man's salary, you're paying for the stupidity of voters in the 30's who bought the lie that soaking corporations and the rich is fair ... and you'll pay an even higher percentage of your income tomorrow ... in another 20 years it'll be a LOT higher percentage, wait and see ...

Fair? ... hell no, we're bein' f**ked and not even bein' kissed ...
Tobasco Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809
One other thing. Businesses like mine require a decent amount of money to start, all at risk. We also provide jobs for others which helps bring in more taxes. I take the risk, but pay more because I made it. If I ever were to go under. The government wont help me out any more(subsidize)than the average employee(unemployment) that works for a company. Thats not fair either. Just my opinion.

Mag
Tobasco Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809
Steve, I get what you are saying now. You are right.

Mag
huskey Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 11-09-2001
Posts: 275
If you think the less fortunate should pay a similar
percent of their income as compared to wealthier citizens .......say everyone pays 10%. Your state
would be more broke than it already is. First of all,
state revenues would decrease and a need for
family assistance programs would increase.

The lower income bracket increase in taxes would result
in less food, health care items not a reduction in luxury items.

Everyone pays too much in taxes, but when it comes to
cutting government programs... yea right!
Clark
zimmyNY Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 06-19-2002
Posts: 2
GO GIANTS
Tobasco Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809
Husky, I see your point too. But if this state didnt give welfare out like it was water, that would help. Get rid of ILLEGAL ALIENS, and run a sales tax that would take the place of the income tax, so drug dealers and Illegals & people getting paid "under the table" would contribute also. We would all be better off. Just my opinion.

Mag
huskey Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 11-09-2001
Posts: 275
Mag, I agree. Assistance should be a last resort
not a right! That is why I think maintaining a good
relationship with your family, church, and neighborhood
is important. They can help in times of need.

Clark
Sonny_LSU Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 11-21-2002
Posts: 1,835
ahhh.....let me clarify my statement.....my analogy would be along the lines of how "big brother" would justify this situation. Is it fair? Absolutely not. My example was NTS (not to scale)....I exaggerated for descriptive purposes only;)

cruiser Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2001
Posts: 739
Is Life fair?
eleltea Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2002
Posts: 4,562
Our congressmen live better than kings, and yet their appetites grow larger every year.
Todog Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 05-05-2001
Posts: 804
How about moving to another state?
RknRmnd Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 10-16-2001
Posts: 407
Just ask yourselves what happened before taxation? Was the quality of life better or worse. Did you get what you earned. Did someone give your grandparents and parents something for nothing and raise you. That's the general concensus.. I could do it better than you if you give me what you have and step back! Makes me sick sometimes to see everybody suffering because of the selfishness of a few politicians. Happens in every state. What, do you think we would stop existing and not be able to care for our families if there was not someone there telling us how to spend our own money?
SteveS Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
Big-brother-ism is alive and well, growing by leaps and bounds ... until FDR began his alphabet soup groups with "entitlements" for all, it wasn't this way ... government at all levels has become omniverous ...

I could get on a huge soapbox and go off for days and weeks about all that's wrong, but bottom line is that is why I vote very heavily Republican ... the Dems are for more and bigger government and have boondoggled our government out of control ... all Repubs aren't necessarily the best, but they're for less government and so am I ...

I know I said it before, but at the risk of being repetitious, Hubert Humprey came right out and said it in plain English at the '48 Dem Convention in predicting that the Dems were in for a long run in power ... "who will vote for Scrooge when they could vote for Santa Claus?" he asked ... and time has proven him right ...

I, on the other hand have and will continue to vote for Scrooge because "Santa" is playing with MY money and I don't like the way he manages it ... or more accurately as he MISmanages it ...
RobertParrott Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 06-27-2001
Posts: 344
I have no idea who it was that said that democracy will fail when people realize they can vote them selves money.
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