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Last post 21 years ago by groucho. 22 replies replies.
'Human Shields' Take Stand in Baghdad
usahog Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
This is Pushing the 1st Ammendment out of Context....

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Feb. 24 -- Entering a makeshift dormitory that he intends to make his home for next several weeks, Ube Evans, a stagehand from Britain, smiled triumphantly as he snared a cot near a window and a refrigerator. But it was only after he walked outside to gaze at his surroundings that he pronounced himself satisfied with the new accommodations.

An enormous electricity generating plant, with four grimy smokestacks soaring into the sky, was no more than 50 yards away. "This is close enough," he said with a nod of contentment. "This is just perfect."

Evans and 14 other antiwar protesters from around the world have decided to hunker down in a conference room at the Baghdad South Power Plant with the hope that, if the Bush administration launches a war aimed at toppling Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, their presence will dissuade the U.S. military from bombing the facility. The activists are among more than 200 foreigners, including some from the United States, who have arrived here recently with encouragement from Hussein's government to serve as "human shields" to protect power plants, water treatment facilities, hospitals and other installations critical to the civilian population.

Those who have volunteered to put their bodies on the line range from wide-eyed college students to limping retirees, Norwegians to South Africans, atheists to head scarf-wearing Muslims, all of whom said they passionately oppose a U.S. military invasion of Iraq. Many traveled aboard two double-decker buses from London that lumbered through continental Europe, Turkey and Syria before pulling up to their staging area here, a small Baghdad hotel bubbling with the guitar-strumming bonhomie of a hippie commune and the energy of a political campaign headquarters.

"We're putting the American government on notice," said Ken Nichols O'Keefe, a former Marine who served in the 1991 Persian Gulf War but has since renounced his U.S. citizenship and now coordinates the human-shield campaign. "If they bomb these sites, which have absolutely no military justification, it won't be collateral damage. It will be murder."

The intended use of human shields in Iraq has evoked grim memories of the period before the Gulf War. After Hussein's army captured Kuwait in August 1990, Iraqi soldiers rounded up more than 2,000 foreigners, many of them oil workers, and forced them to live for months in Iraqi military bases and industrial plants. They were released a month before the war began, after Hussein was subjected to intense international pressure.

Although antiwar activists have sought to act as shields in other conflicts, most recently in the West Bank during Israeli attacks, organizers here called the size and scope of this effort unprecedented. While they acknowledged that their presence in Iraq probably will not lead the Bush administration to back down, they said they hope to force the Pentagon to exclude a host of targets, including the Baghdad South Power Plant, which the U.S. military bombed in 1991.

"Nobody wants to die, but ultimately that is the price the shield volunteers are willing to pay," said Joe Letts, the driver of one of the double-decker buses.

The presence of human shields has been eagerly promoted by Hussein's government, which views them as a part of a last-chance strategy to improve its battlefield odds by attempting to force U.S. commanders to alter their bombing plans in and around Baghdad. Unlike journalists and official visitors, whose entry visas can take weeks to process, many of the activists received theirs in under 48 hours -- and in some cases immediately on arrival at the border. The government also is paying to house them in several small tourist hotels around Baghdad and is setting up free international telephone lines and e-mail connections so they can promote their activities in their home countries.

The government has provided the activists with a list of sites where they can stay. The organizers spent the past week visiting sites and eliminating those deemed too close to military installations.

U.S. military officials have insisted they have no plans to target civilian installations, but they have not specifically commented on whether they would bomb power plants as they did in 1991. Even though the shields are volunteers this time, U.S. officials have warned Iraqi officials that their support for the placement of civilians around possible targets would be considered a war crime.

"Deploying human shields is not a military strategy," Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said last week. "It's murder, a violation of the laws of armed conflict and a crime against humanity."

Human Rights Watch, a New York-based advocacy group, has condemned both sides for their stance toward the shields. "If Iraq uses people as human shields, that is a war crime," said Kenneth Roth, the group's executive director. "But Secretary Rumsfeld only told half the story. . . . If the United States attacks targets that are shielded by civilians without demonstrating an overwhelming military necessity to do so, that would be a war crime too."

Despite the apparent enthusiasm on the part of the Iraqi government, it is not entirely clear they will allow the shields to stay where they want to during a war. Some diplomats have speculated that the government could conclude that the volunteers are too much trouble to have around and force them to leave the country. The manager of the Baghdad South plant hinted he might try to shepherd the shields into a bomb shelter on the premises. And some of the activists have expressed concern that they could be forcibly relocated to other sites of greater military or political value at the last minute.

"If that happens, I wouldn't be happy, but there are some things that are beyond our control," said Evans, the stagehand. "That's a risk we're willing to take to prevent this war."

The shields are a mix of first-time protesters and veteran activists. One Briton at the power plant spent weeks in a tunnel under the Manchester airport to protest runway expansion. One American, Ryan Clancy, an English teacher from Milwaukee, said he has never attended a street demonstration.

"I was increasingly frustrated with what I was seeing on TV," said Clancy, 26, who said he found out about the shields while watching CNN. On a lark, he applied to join over the Internet. A few days later, he sold his 50 percent stake in a record store to buy his airline tickets and flew to Italy to join the bus convoy.

Ordinary Iraqis appear confused by the presence of the shields. When the buses drove through Baghdad to the power plant, with the activists making peace signs and waving "No War" banners, they elicited few shouts of encouragement or honking horns in response.

At the plant, which was hit by six bombs in 1991 and still operates at only half its prewar capacity, director Ihsan Obeidi said he expected the presence of the shields to spare the facility from another airstrike. "These are good people who are helping innocent Iraqi people," he said.

But other workers seemed less optimistic. Sabah Hassan, an engineer in a blue boiler suit, said that if the bombs start falling, he would not hesitate to flee. "I will go home," he said. "The foreign volunteers can stay."

jdrabinski Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
Did you read the whole thing?

"Human Rights Watch, a New York-based advocacy group, has condemned both sides for their stance toward the shields. "If Iraq uses people as human shields, that is a war crime," said Kenneth Roth, the group's executive director. "But Secretary Rumsfeld only told half the story. . . . If the United States attacks targets that are shielded by civilians without demonstrating an overwhelming military necessity to do so, that would be a war crime too."

Damn good point. I wonder if you appreciate that.

Funny, too, that you as a soldier would have no regard whatsoever for the courage to sacrifice one's life for an idea...in this case, the idea of peace over war. I guess you can't respect anything other than your own reactionary party line? Seems that way.

John
usahog Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Did you read the whole thing? "Yes I Did and I posted it as the Whole Story"

"Human Rights Watch, a New York-based advocacy group, has condemned both sides for their stance toward the shields. "If Iraq uses people as human shields, that is a war crime," said Kenneth Roth, the group's executive director. "But Secretary Rumsfeld only told half the story. . . . If the United States attacks targets that are shielded by civilians without demonstrating an overwhelming military necessity to do so, that would be a war crime too."
"military necessity, Meaning... to save the lives of many US and Coalition Forces then anything deamed to be a threat is open game in a war... this is not a heavyweight fight in Vegas....No Hitting Below the Belt... Read the Rules of Engagement Books out there on this.... Fiction and Non Fiction"
Damn good point. I wonder if you appreciate that.
"Yes it makes me sick to see a bunch of Tree Huggers trying to avert something that if Sanctions are not met.. there is no turning it around...these people are interfearing with elected Officials and appointed people in other area's who as a whole WE the People put them there in Office."

Funny, too, that you as a soldier would have no regard whatsoever for the courage to sacrifice one's life for an idea...in this case, the idea of peace over war. I guess you can't respect anything other than your own reactionary party line? Seems that way.

"I have a deep regard for Sacrifice and also Courage... But non whatsoever for Stupidity!!!"

Hog


Mr.Mean Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 05-16-2001
Posts: 3,025
I wonder if these people have ever been blown up before. I think it would hurt.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
"But other workers seemed less optimistic. Sabah Hassan, an engineer in a blue boiler suit, said that if the bombs start falling, he would not hesitate to flee. "I will go home," he said. "The foreign volunteers can stay."

THAT sums up their attitude towards Freedom right there! Let someone else to all the hard work and sacrifice. That's why Saddam is STILL alive and running their show! They can't even act like a shield!

Nuke 'em!
gdurfor Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2001
Posts: 288
f**k them ass*oles. Do they believe that if they were at the WTC the terrorist would have aborted
the attack. What a bunch of F**kin Airheads. They should be target number 1.
justforfun Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 03-06-2002
Posts: 797
I'm all in favor of their ideals and support them. I just support stupidity. If they choose to follow through on their committment, then they can die as martyrs in their own minds. They should make for great target practice.

Maybe they can get Barbara Streisand, Alec Baldwin, Martin Sheen, and Rob Reiner to join them. Haven't the first two relocated out of the country, or at least they said they would if the Democrats lost the last election??
Charlie Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Too bad, I say blast them to Hell and back! If they are that stupid "to stand up" and shield for that Madman, who does not give one happy damn about them or anybody else!

Good, get rid of em! "Kill them all and Let God sort them out"!

Charlie
jjohnson28 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 09-12-2000
Posts: 7,914
Chaulk it up as thinnin' the herd...
Mrs. Usahog Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 02-06-2003
Posts: 405
LMAO at JJ!!!

Mrs. Hog
Charlie Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
We need to send some more of our riff raff to Iraq! Jessee Jackson would make the perfect Human Shield!

Charlie
Charlie Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
We need to send some more of our riff raff to Iraq! Jessee Jackson would make the perfect Human Shield!

Charlie
donutboy2000 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 11-20-2001
Posts: 25,000
During the Vietnam War Buddhist monks set themselves on fire to protest the war. Great idea for Penn, Sarndon, and Ferrell. What a strong statement. Think of the world wide coverage.
tarheel4lyf Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 09-23-2002
Posts: 2,543
Collateral Damage......
xrundog Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
I saw interviews with some of these guys on the news. Their hearts are in the right place. Iraq has them set up in great apartments with fully stocked fridges. The Iraqis are really glad to have them. Especially Saddam. That should be their first clue. But when the shooting starts I think they may realize how badly they've been used. Treason? I don't know. Doesn't intent have some bearing on treason? After the shooting, if any of these poor saps survives, lets welcome them back and forgive them for being dumb.
usahog Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
I would not or could not... if they are willing to sacrifice others lives to be stupid enough to go through with this... If the US and Coalition forces have to scrub a mission as to where they could have Tactically knocked out something that would save the lives of Ground forces, But couldn't because of these Clowns... then I would Hold them on the Highest War Crimes charges = to the Terrorists that threaten this country... and any Americans...or should I says So called Americans servive this what there doing... Ship them Straight the Hell to Camp X-ray and let them live with there Buddy's there!!!!!!!
because this is aiding and abedding the Enemy if we go to War!!! and they should be tried as such...
Total A$$holes is what they are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hog
mkraus47 Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 02-04-2003
Posts: 196
I understand this is a heated issue with all of us, but lets just look at it logically. The comments that were made (forgot who made them) about hitting a civilian guarded target being a war crime were made because they had to be said. P.C. this P.C. that normal B.S. Now, These "things" that willfully put themselves in harms way are nothing more than that, "things." They will be treated as such. They renounced citizenship (some of them officially) when they made this choice. I do not believe the U.S. will in fact not attack a target because they are there. They are not prisoners held against their will and releases us from liability. They effectually have become soldiers for the enemy. My personal opinion is that they are treasonous and shoud not be allowed to re-enter the us or any other country in our "camp" as it were. They choose to defend horrible dictatorships then they choose to live there as well. They will not live long in these countries. I suspect they already are starting to regret their choices. They made their beds, and they can lay in them, permanantly. Just my two cents- Mike
tarheel4lyf Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 09-23-2002
Posts: 2,543
ô¿ô
xrundog Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
If we don't officially declare war on Iraq (if it's a UN mission) then can they actually be considered traitors? Legally that is. I agree that strategic targets should not be avoided because of these dopes. In the event of military action I don't expect many of them to come back. Sadam will of course put them in the spots he most expects to be bombed. Hell! They might as well target the places that have the highest concentration human shields!
usahog Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
IMO I don't think the Administration is going to wait on the UN...and when GW kicks it off... he will declare it a war... there has already Been War Declared... "War On Terrorism" just because 911 was a few years ago... the Military and Administration has not sat down like Clinton Did... shooting off a couple
Missiles here and there and calling it Benificial enough for the people lost on 911.... the United States is not going to sit down no more and allow this ever to happen again!!!!!!!
and if need be I will Bleed for the Sovernty of this Cause!!!!!!!!!

Hog
donutboy2000 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 11-20-2001
Posts: 25,000
Nagasaki & Hiroshima
ducati996 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 01-02-2000
Posts: 3,475
Human shields suck.....and from an engineering point of view ....they don't work...the shrapnal goes right through them...lol
groucho Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 11-27-2001
Posts: 44
mona charon has written a book about the human shields, the hollywood left and others of their ilk.

it's titled "Useful Idiots", named after a phrase attributed to Vladimir Lenin, referring to communist supporters from other nations....HA!
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