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Last post 21 years ago by E-Chick. 32 replies replies.
"But, Saddam didn't ... "
SteveS Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751

I copied this article from another site and posted here for the edification of those who continue to bleat the liberal mantra that Saddam did not attack the US, so why are we taking action against him ... I have no illusion that this will alter the thinking of the liberals among us, however much I might wish it could.
I cannot help but wonder whether those who are so unwilling to take the action against Saddam that is so clearly warranted would have also followed that same thought pattern and opposed the entry of the US in WWII on the grounds of "But why Germany and Italy? ... they didn't bomb Pearl Harbor"

No need for action has been more clear in my entire life ... few cases in history have been as compelling as this is now ... is there NOTHING that would motivate those who are so reluctant now? Would ANY cause be sufficient to spur them to action ??? Sadly, the answer is ... seemingly not ...

here's my post:

The real pea is under Dems' heads

http://www.NewsAndOpinion.com | Last week's capture of al-Qaida bigwig Khalid
Shaikh Mohammed suggests that the Democrats may have been overhasty in claiming
the war with Iraq was distracting President Bush from the task of pursuing the "real
terrorists." Mohammed is described as the CEO of al-Qaida, with Osama bin Laden as
chairman of the board. Mohammed was the mastermind of the Sept. 11 terrorist
attacks, the bombings of American embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, and the attack
on the USS Cole.

If impeached former president Bill Clinton had ever caught a fish as big as Mohammed,
he would still go down in history as America's worst president, but at least he would
have a single foreign policy accomplishment. Last September, Clinton was among those
braying that it was insanity to go to war with Iraq rather than concentrating on
al-Qaida: "Saddam Hussein didn't kill 3,100 people on Sept. 11; Osama bin Laden did."

The Democrats love this argument. Their infantile obsession with Osama bin Laden to
the exclusion of all other Arab terrorists allows them sound like hawks while opposing
all anti-terrorism initiatives. They angrily denounce war with Iraq as an unnecessary
distraction from their single-minded focus on capturing Osama bin Laden.

In the week before Mohammed's capture, they were all reading from the same hymnal.
Bernie Sanders, socialist congressman from Vermont said: "The man who killed 3,000
innocent Americans, his name is not Saddam Hussein. His name is Osama bin Laden."
Rep. Dennis Kucinich, Democratic presidential candidate and strange-looking little man,
said: "Iraq was not responsible for the attack on the World Trade Center or the
Pentagon."

Also days before the Bush administration captured a major al-Qaida leader, an article
in The New York Times referred to "the Bush administration's inability to achieve one of
the main goals of its anti-terror effort, the capture of al-Qaida's leaders." Norman
Mailer said the Bush administration turned to Iraq when -- I quote -- "the campaign in
Afghanistan failed." He must still be reading The New York Times from October 2001,
when the Times was predicting America's defeat in Afghanistan. Unable to capture the
top al-Qaida leaders, Mailer said, Bush "decided the real pea was under another shell.
Not al-Qaida, but Iraq."

Whoops. It turns out that, unlike the Democrats, a Republican administration can
walk and chew gum at the same time.

After an arrest like that, Clinton would have held 17 press conferences to praise
himself and attack Republicans. Bush has held no press conferences on the capture of
this major al-Qaida leader. And yet the Times has repeatedly characterized the
administration's bland, straightforward statements about the arrest as "triumphal."
"Triumphal" is apparently New York Times code for: "Bush was right and we were
wrong."

Not only has the Bush administration figured out how the world's only superpower can
fight more than 12 guys at once, but the Democrats' premise is absurd: Terrorism
would not instantly vanish if Osama bin Laden were eliminated. Mohammed's career in
terrorism is a good example of the far-flung networking among Arab terrorists.
According to The New York Times, Mohammed was a free-lance terrorist until around
1998 when, down on his luck, he joined up with al-Qaida. Since Sept. 11, he has
helped al-Qaida reinvent itself by "solidifying alliances with other terror groups and
permitting midlevel agents to plan and execute attacks."

This leads to a perilous question: What excuse will Democrats use to oppose the war
on terrorism after Osama bin Laden is captured? We may soon find out. This week,
Time magazine is reporting that for the first time since the bombardment of Osama's
cave in December 2001, U.S. officials have been able to determine that Osama bin
Laden is alive. Mohammed is considered a key to bringing bin Laden to justice.

Human rights groups have responded to the capture of this major al-Qaida figure with
the plea: DON'T HURT HIM! They are hysterical at the possibility that the government is
torturing Mohammed for information. There are dark rumors that terrorists are being
stripped, humiliated, strapped down and subjected to total sleep deprivation with
lights and noise. Then it turned out the hapless victims of such brutal tactics weren't
terrorists, but airline passengers since Sept. 11.

No one even knows where Mohammed is being held, much less how he is being
treated. It's a tricky business interrogating terrorists. When questioning people who
live in caves, government officials have to go pretty far just to deprive them of the
comforts of home.

Soon liberals will be asking why we're even questioning Mohammed. As Bill Clinton
would say: Khalid Shaikh Mohammed didn't kill 3,100 people on Sept. 11; Osama bin
Laden did.

(The author of this article, JWR contributor Ann Coulter is the author of Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right).
efm Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 01-23-2001
Posts: 499
Three deep breaths, Steve. Wouldn't want you to blow a gasket in your self-righteous ferver.

I copy your message that anyone who don't think Saddam should be rubbed out is a treasonous dog. You're preaching to the choir. However, the article you posted to support you position is interesting as far as it goes but it don't really support your position at all except to say that Mohammed was "a free-lance terrorist" before he joined up with al-Qaida and has links to other terrorists. If you take that as proof that Saddam is in bed with al-Qaida you're pretty easy to convince. I'm not saying I disagree with your position. I'm just that I wouldn't shove that article in people's faces with a lot of patronising, condescending, holier-than-thou attitude as if it were proof of anything.
jjohnson28 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 09-12-2000
Posts: 7,914
Hmmmmmmmm, I guess the fact that Sadamm has advertised repeatedly a worldwide $25,000 reward to the families of anybody that kills Iseralis and or Americans dosen't wash as proof for you... Well OK? To each his own I guess...
cwilhelmi Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
This article doesn't cover half of the subjects we're using to justify our actions in Iraq. And as efm pointed out it isn't a smoking gun. I'm not saying that there isn't sufficient evidence to go in, just that this article doesn't do it.

The reason we're going in is to enforce the UN resolutions from 91', not because of Sadaam's supposed links to Al Quada and 9/11. But of course it was laiden with slander for the opposition as a means of proving the point, instead of just supplying facts.
jjohnson28 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 09-12-2000
Posts: 7,914
Bwahahaha! do you guys want proof he has links to terrorism or don't you?The fact that he has and will fund terrorist at will dosen't in itself wash with you people?...and before you come back with there are others,I'll counter with one at a time boys...one at a time...or would you propose a full scale world war on terrorism?I'm all for it but what about you and all the rest of the farkin pansies?Hmmmmmmm!**** or get off the pot boys and girls,**** or get off the pot!

You fuggers crack me up...what the f_ck do you want?LOLOLOL
SteveS Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
A) Nothing in what I wrote said or hinted that I felt the article I presented was a comprehensive, all encompassing statement of why the case for action against Saddam is so clear ...

B) While I AM sick of the liberal bull**** that, living where I do, I hear every day that "this is all about oil" ... or ... "he just wants to finish daddy's war" ... or ... "but why Saddam; HE didn't bomb us on 9/ll?" ... there is nothing in the part of this post that I wrote which can possibly be misconstrued to say that I have a "patronising, condescending, holier-than-thou attitude"

C) The terrorists who DID plan and carry out the attacks of 9/11 AND those such as Saddam who support them know full well that they cannot hope to put even a scratch on our military forces ... the very nature of the attacks was to scratch us in another way ... to turn our own strengths against us, to turn us against one another and demoralize us, to rob us of our will to carry out the sustained effort that will be required to win what will be a long protracted effort to win the war that is to come ... (in which the ousting of Saddam is only one battle).

D) I find the extent to which they have already succeeded to be sad and alarming ... the very fact that there is so much debate about taking the most clearly called for action in my lifetime and one of the most clearly called for actions in history is evidence that the terrorists are better students of us than we are of them.

E) I am chilled to try to imagine what it will take to wake some of our citizens up ... to me, it is unimaginable that four commercial airliners full of our own citizens could be hijacked within our own country and used as flying bombs in three successful attacks with a fourth only averted by a handful of brave and alert men and STILL we have members of congress who vote against taking action and protest marches carried out on the streets of our largest cities ...

F) I will not be drawn into a personal exchange ... I appreciate what we have in this country and am supportive of taking the actions required to preserve our freedoms and our way of life, but those freedoms include a right to disagree ... thankfully, we are fortunate enough that this page in history was turned at a time when we have leaders who will take those actions
xrundog Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
Steve, using an article written as opinion by a mouthpiece of the conservative Republicans does not prove any facts. Watching Meet the Press and Face the Nation this morning, I was struck by the fact that This administration wants to take a specific action and is not really interested in what anyone either in this country, or outside it thinks. I agree that the Iraq problem must be addressed. But remember, the war on terrorism is NOT the main reason being given for actively disarming them. The main reason is the UN resolution. If action is taken without the UN, then how can that reasoning be justified? The Bush administration clearly does not believe in diplomacy. Bullying the UN is very likely to backfire. Colin Powell understands this. I don't thing his bosses do.I think they want to take action NOW because the 2004 election is looming. If their plan works they think they can win a mandate. If it fails though, Howard Dean is going to look like the smartest guy on the block. I hope it works out. It's one big can O' worms!
Charlie Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
I think Saddam should be taken from power and if it takes War to do so, so be it!

He is a Terrorist, despite what Marty Sheen and his crowd may think.

Charlie
cwilhelmi Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
what xrundog said...
usahog Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Bush doesn't give a **** about the up coming Elections..He cares about this Country... and has shown that by taking Action... to Protect it and Its people...Dicking Around With Saddam Hussain for 12 yrs and nothing getting done about it... while he builds his stock pile for a Payback on the Americans in any way shape or Form he can do this IE: Paying and Helping Terrorist Organizations to act out against Americans....you know what... I think your Opinions would all be different if there were more Terrorist activity going on in this Country like there was that Morning of Sept.11th... but who knows... because That isn't Happening now is it??? DUHHHHHHHHHH I wonder the F&*)^$CK Why?????
Because we have a Man in Office Who ain't taking No **** from anybody... and for his 4 year term he's going to make a difference and Protect the Country that he Loves... you Liberal SISSY'SSSssssssssss Can't take it!!!!!!!!!!

Go Hide in your Shells and let the world float on By!!!!

Hog
xrundog Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
Hog, I am properly chastened! Your name calling and sarcasm has convinced me you must be right. Your irrefutable logic.....oh, wait...you didn't use any. I believe that Saddam is linked to terrorism. I don't dispute it. Should he be disarmed? Yes! But Bush doesn't care about elections? I disagree. That is really naiive. He wants another 4 years. Else why the spin? Is it about the UN resolution or the war on terrorism? Pick one and go with it. The UN does not think the 2 are linked(unfortunately). I wonder what will happen to our economy if the UN places economic sanctions against US? Can't happen you say? I think it can. And we export a helluva lot of goods. Okay, all that said, when the shootin' starts, I'll be on board.
justforfun Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 03-06-2002
Posts: 797
I firmly believe the UN is, and always will be, IRRELEVANT!!!!
Charlie Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
He has not gone with a resolution in 12 years, why should we keep letting him get away with this? Blow his ass up!

Charlie
xrundog Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
The UN is irrelevant? Please explain that. The UN strives to be an objective voice of reason to settle disputes in the world. When someone won't play, it is the UN's job to to do something about. For instance the trade sanctions. If you don't believe they can hurt, you are wrong. Problem is, some countries aren't following the rules. Why? OIL! And I don't mean us. Without the UN I think we would have seen a few more hot conflicts in the last century. Does the UN always do the right thing? No. It's run by people who always have their own agenda. Us included. Usually a compromnise can be reached. The thing that puzzles me about the administration's position is this: Every speech GWB gives, every news conference, every TV show, they all say that resolution 1441 must be enforced. That's the reason to go into Iraq. UN authority. Yet congress is told the executive branch doesn't need congressional authority to do so because this is the war on terror. And congress has given it's authority already. So I guess they are hedging their bets and will use whatever reason works in the end. Connie Rice is watching the polls. You can tell by the way she refuses to answer direct questions. Fortunately I know the Generals and Admirals will do their jobs better than this administration is doing theirs. Colin Powell excepted. I might like him for the top spot should he run!
usahog Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
It's All About MONEY!!!! the UN and the country's involved with the UN are armpit to armpit with deals with IRAQ... they have been seceratly dealing with Saddam on deals underneath the very same Sanctions that were imposed on Iraq for the past 12 years... and even our Previous Administartion Knew all this and let it slid... now that this country has someone in Office who wont tolorate the CRAP no more... the UN wants to try and let these sanctions work... give it more time... 12 F&$)(&CKEN Years is Plenty of time to see it not working.... Money Talks and BS Walks... Not No More!!!!! everyone wants to see spotted Owls in Alaska safe... now we are working at better ways to maintain a stability for Ourselves in America and there are allot of people with there hand in someones (Corprets) Pocket that don't like to see this happening...

The Very Same Lil Weasels who are Bitching right Now... What about North Korea are going to be the Same one's Pleading we ease up on North Korea when WE The United States Puts the Hammer Down... Iraq then N.Korea. then any other Simple Pimple who wants to F&*))CK with the US of A!!!!!!!!

I predict its not going to be long and the Gov. will have Ol' Osama In Custody Dead or Alive... I hope his ass is Stiff as a Board!!!!! but then what are the Dem's/Liberals going to B!tch about Bush when this happens???

If Al Gore would have been elected and 911 was still going to Happen (my Personal Opinion) then Ol'Al Buddy was going to Declare Marshal Law on the United States... Abolishing the Constitution and Government taking total control of everything... Right Down to Your's and Mine Freedom of Speech.. Instead Bush WON the Election and the Marshal Law didn't happen because the right Administration wasn't in Power....
thats why it was such an Argument that AL Win...
we don't need people in Government who think like that...
Don't jump on a band wagon and ask me to show facts to back up my Opinion.. there isn't enough MEG on CB to carry it all!!!!


Hog
usahog Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Another thing... it is always the UN looking to the USA to Police up and set Democracy in all these other country's in the time of Need be.. but now that its going to happen in Iraq they want to Block the US from fixing the Mess??? doesn't that for a second cross your mind as being Jacked Up?? start looking at the real Reasons these UN Country's don't want the US to clean this mess up.... that may open your eye's a Bit.. it's called the TRUTH!!!!!! and the FACTS!!!!!
Black and White in your Face Slam Dunk Baby!!!!!! Deal With It!!!!!!!

Hog
usahog Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
http://www.arabnews.com/Article.asp?ID=23519

And the Beat Goes On and On and On!!!!!!

Hog
efm Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 01-23-2001
Posts: 499
Okay Hog, stop beating aroung the bush and tell us what you really think. (smiley face)
xrundog Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
Okay hog, no surprise in that article. I agree with a lot of your points. But there are some things that I don't understand. So I ask questions. But nobody answers my questions. You tell me what you want to tell me. Which is stuff that I have conceded to already. Same stuff Connie Rice does on Meet the Press. I guess I will wait a couple weeks. There should be some interesting points for discussion by then. We'll have Iraq. Oh yes! But once we have it, will we want it?
usahog Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
No X we wont want it... this will mean instead of me going TDY to sunny Saudi Arabia or Kuwait.. or the Nice Country of Turkey.. I will be going TDY to Sunny Iraq.. and working to try a distill Peace and Democracy in the Region... and then Worry about Suicide Bombers trying to Extinguish my Cigar while I am enjoying the Sun and fine Refreshments of My MRE's and the Coffee that comes in those Packs is very scrumshis (sp) meantime I can be dreaming about how things are back home with my family and my Buddy's....

But if it is going to lessen the burden of Terrorists threats here on the Homefront I'm ready to check out the New Country side!!!! and I am adventurious so I will see while there if there's a chance of Checking out the Biblical side of Iraq... I would like to see rebuilt part of Babalon Saddam had dumped Billions into rebuilding......

Hog
efm Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 01-23-2001
Posts: 499
Hog, Just read an article from the web site you referenced about the history of that region. If you haven't seen it I think you'll find it interesting.

http://www.arabnews.com/Article.asp?ID=23504
Homebrew Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 02-11-2003
Posts: 11,885
Hmmmm,
That article seemed to point to Iran as in need of an attack on terror, more so than Iraq.
Homebrew
usahog Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
LMAO!!!!! There on the List also.... SO whats everybody got to say about them poor folks???

Hog
xrundog Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
That's the problem. The terrorists move from one sympathetic country to the next. Gotta annex the whole middle east I guess. Then Pakistan and some of the other "stans". Hey Hog, keep yer cigars dry(but not TOO dry)!
MESIII Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 01-02-2003
Posts: 5
This guy Steve sits up nights (11:58pm post time) and spouts off this crap. What a boring life.
There are a slew of things to be picked apart in what you're trying to convey, I'll talk about 1. Comparing the military might of Germany circa 1938 and Saddam Hussein, is like comparing a 4th grade bully and Mike Tyson, it can't be done. I'll leave it at that, because like Steve said, it isn't going to change anyones mind.
MESIII Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 01-02-2003
Posts: 5
If Bush cared about the country why isn't he working on fixing the economy too? I think more and more he's a one trick pony, like his daddy. It's going to be ok though, he'll be gone in less than 2 years.
donutboy2000 Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 11-20-2001
Posts: 25,000
Biological weapons make that 4th grade bully someone to be concerned about.
usahog Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
"If Bush cared about the country why isn't he working on fixing the economy too? I think more and more he's a one trick pony, like his daddy. It's going to be ok though, he'll be gone in less than 2 years."

Would you like to make a Wager on that statement MESIII ????

What isn't said by the Liberal Media is that 62% of this Country believe in Bush's way of the Country and this Possible War in Iraq...

So What ya wanna go for in 2 yrs???

Hog
cwilhelmi Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
Down to 52% Hog, at least that's what I heard over the weekend.
E-Chick Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2002
Posts: 4,877
Someone's on his period...
cwilhelmi Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
Not quite...
Homebrew Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 02-11-2003
Posts: 11,885
Seems to me Bush is losing more and more supporters over the economy. The dow is under 7500 for the first time since his father was president. And appears to be still dropping. Unemployment is higher than it was under his father. Moderate republicans are moving away from him because of his administrations attack on civil liberties, and his far right positions. I voted for him, wont do it again. As for Iraq, we need to take Saddam out, but not without the support of our allies. Oh yeah, Saddam has vowed to pay $25,000 to the families of Terrorists who attack America. But that is not enough to attack without other credible evidence. I mean after all, we are not at war with Saudi Arabia, even though most of the 911 attackers were from there, and finacial support for those terrorists was directly connected to a bank account of a Saudi Princess.
Just a thought
Homebrew
E-Chick Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2002
Posts: 4,877
Not you Chris...MESIII...
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