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Last post 21 years ago by rayder1. 45 replies replies.
Popular vs Electoral Votes
DrMaddVibe Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,618
This is EXACTLY why we have the electoral college! Once again proving that the forefathers of the United States of America were some of the brightest minds!

He didn't win. Get over it and be THANKFUL!
81828.jpg
jdrabinski Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
That proves nothing except that there are vast stretches of land with very few people living there. If you want to make this claim, please explain why the person with the most votes can lose. It's a tough sell for most people (and it would be to you if roles were reversed in the last election). A pretty map may impress grade-school kids, but it proves nothing.

It is a pretty map, by the way.

John
DrMaddVibe Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,618
If ANYONE else had posted that infantile comment, I might've responded to it with a through explaination on how our forefathers KNEW that it wasn't just about populated cites that would carry the vote of an entire state and thereby reducing the campaigning a candidate would have to do to get his word out. Unfortunately it was from an "educated man" that can't seem to break the socialistic dog collar that's choking of the oxygen supply to his brain!

Oh, that's right you're a professor!

"WAKE UP!" - RATM
xibbumbero Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2002
Posts: 12,535
Dubya won,give or take a few improprieties. I wonder if Republicans would say that Gore won had the situation been reversed and having recieved A million less votes? BTW,I'm not thanking God,but I'm praying to him a lot lately. X
Robby Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
come on JD! Look again without you bias. You really think the red on that map is "sparsely populated", look again, now one more time... Come on JD! You’re intellectually bankrupt if you take that position!! Why not stand that argument on its head and say, look at the blue areas? Ok, there are some dense metros there. Indeed, and there are bastions of liberalism, i.e., Boston, New York City, SF, etc… But PLEASE! Don’t do yourself a disservice with this kind of guano. This is the map I was referring to in my post against ASS the other day. It tells a story…
jdrabinski Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
Robby,

De facto, anyone can conclude that this map is misleading. Bush lost the popular vote, thus, the red of the map must be telling us one of two things:

1. There aren't very many people in these counties.

or

2. Bush barely won the counties he won, thereby making both the vote closer AND the map misleading...as Bush would have just barely won, not won decisively.

You pick. Either way, your blowhard response looks ridiculous.

DMV,

You say 'you are a professor' as if that's an insult. Do you intend it to be? If so, you need to explain.

John
Robby Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
hehehe "blow" aa ahhh hehe "hard"
xrundog Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
The Electoral College ensures that votes in North Dakota carry the same weight as votes in New York City. Without it, the big Cities would be electing all the Presidents.
Charlie Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Are we going to try and rewrite the electorial college so the Liberals can trounce the Republicans in all future elections? Not!

GWB won fair and square-thank God for that! Now Algore can go about inventing more wonderful things such as the internet and whatever else he so claims.

Charlie
Robby Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
What is ridiculous is the point that Gore got more votes. What is the point? Who's president? It's almost as ridiculous as me continuing to carry on about the blow jobs Clinton was getting in the Oral Office, who cares!? It was despicable, it makes good board fodder, but in the end, it's just a talking point. Just like your position that Gore got more votes. Despite the fact that the major networks announced that Gore had already won Florida while the polls were still open in the more conservative pan handle section and other parts of the U.S. ... Can you say, liberal media conspiracy? Even with this thinly veiled attempt at rigging the election, BUSH STILL WON!! And probably would have done so with more votes as opposed to the virtual dead heat, which seems to put the libs in to such a dead heated state.
E-Chick Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2002
Posts: 4,877
Are we still on this?
Robby Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
Mom! He started it!
Charlie Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Did not!

Charlie
jdrabinski Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
Robby,

?

Liberal media because exit polls showed Gore winning? How is that 'rigging' the election? Get a little precision with terms, ok?!

The question is not insignificant; it concerns the legitimacy of a leader who is taking a VERY conservative trajectory as president, doing things not reflected by the voters' profile...no matter how you think of it. So legitimacy, sometimes called 'mandate', is a real and ongoing question.

I never said, by the way, that he isn't president. But he is a president with an asterik, like when Maris broke Ruth's record. That's my analogy.

John
jjohnson28 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 09-12-2000
Posts: 7,914
Alright guys and gals just so we can keep things straight around here.I was the first one to call jdrabinski a "Blowhard" OK? is that clear? Good! :0)

Carry on...
xrundog Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
Seems to me Benjamin Harrison won his Presidency the same way. I never see an asterisk by his name though. I am sure Grover Cleveland bitched mightily! Oddly enough, Grover won the next term. Does history repeat itself?
John, you know as well as I do that this administration watches polls. If the polls shift drastically, we will see a shift in policy. They have that second term to think of. That's opinion, not fact.
jdrabinski Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
jjohnson,

Ha ha ha...I remember thinking of that, and thinking (to recall a recent exchange) that such was also a case of the pot calling the kettle black. lol!

But thanks for setting us straight.

John
Robby Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
Well, I must say leadership is refreshing as opposed to blowing with the wind of the polls... You and I don't have information that he does. I believe he's acting in our best interests despite what the Sadam supporters feel.
jdrabinski Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
"You and I don't have information that he does."

Huh? So we do whatever he says? No. This is not a benevolent dictatorship...or so I hope it isn't.

"I believe he's acting in our best interests despite what the Sadam supporters feel."

What basis do you have for that? The evidence of past decisions seem to suggest he acts in the interest of the wealthy and the oil industry. Do why are you so optimistic about Bush's altruism? There doesn't seem to be any basis for that.

Also, as to the issue of polls, I don't think this president listens to them. Think of the Alaska wilderness decision. This is SERIOUSLY unpopular, and the president has pushed it since day one. Why? Well, would his roots in the oil industry have anything to do with it? Or Cheney's roots in the same? NO! NEVER! Errr...ok, yes, of course it does.

Ever wonder who was in that secret meeting to form energy policy with Cheney? You know, the one he has refused to disclose? Ah, democracy Bush-Cheney style.

John
Robby Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
Heh, "******-tatter"

The last time I checked, I was employed by a corporation? When corporations prosper, they invest, spend, grow, hire, pay salaries... I like corporations, I don't live on a commune.

As for his altruism? I don't know if he's an Alto, that seems a bit high, a tenor maybe.

I hear the caribou in Alaska which were forecasted to die out when the pipeline when it have actually prospered...

Secret meetings??? Can you say Travelgate? Whitewatergate? and oh, the infamous "Tailgate"? He's got some catching up to do before he even gets CLOSE to your hero...
barryneedleman Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 08-23-2000
Posts: 1,689
All, enough about the electoral college, this is one of the controls that our founding fathers provided to provide some sort of balance between the rural and urban areas (along with the different issues those areas have). Same reason that each state has 2 Senators and the Representatives vary by population. Right now the Dems are having problems with the electoral college and the Repubs are having problems with filibuster. The reason that neither have been changed is that the party that could benefit from either will vary with time. If you don't like this aspect of our government change it.

By the way, the map doesn't mean a hell of a lot except that Gore couldn't carry much except the major urban areas.

And for the voices re: Fla voting issues, remember there are issues on both sides but what is done is done - fix the issues (chads, calling the winner before polls close, confusing ballots, etc.).

Just my half dollar.
usahog Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Why is there Facts of Cases in Chicago that Gore/Gore's people were trading Cigarettes for VOTES???

What a Way to TRY AND WIN!!!!!

I Wonder How many Dead folks cast there Votes also???

BUT WE SEE JUSTICE PREVAILED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hog
Robby Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
Would you have voted for Gore for a box of good cigars? =:-o They should have canvassed the boards on c-bid. It would probably have put them over the top!!
xibbumbero Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2002
Posts: 12,535
"Justice prevailed",LOL. Only history will tell. Until then it's all a matter of your POV. X
usahog Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
"Would you have voted for Gore for a box of good cigars?"

Not a chance in Hell... I would rather Have eatin rotten Sushi than take a chance of the Cigars being Tainted by Monica!!!

Hog
xibbumbero Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2002
Posts: 12,535
I voted for Gore not expecting anything in return and so did a mllion more Americans. All we got was A Dubya,a downward spiraling economy and a nation about enter another war. X
Robby Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
Yeah, surely Sadam would have disarmed now if Gore was in office. Good point. Just the thought of his intimating persona (you know, controlling legal authority and all that?). Bin Laden would have surrendered by now to. Man are we getting screwed!!
eleltea Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2002
Posts: 4,562
President Gore, President Bush. Either way, a boy president. Different set of rich friends to divvy up the government money machine. George Wallace said it 50 years ago: Ain't a nickles worth of difference in the two. The republicans of today are a little more like the old JFK (hawkish tax cutter with a social conscience) Democrats and the Democrats of today are more like the Socialist Workers Party of the same era. Time marches on.
tailgater Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Prof,
It is easy to suggest that the election results in FLA were skewed to the left due to "exit polls".
The Pan handle of florida is fairly conservative. They are also in a later time zone. They see the evening news and discover "gore wins florida". They don't vote.
The suggestive powers of the media are only effective when they are subtle. The exit polls were taken in predominately liberal cities. The results were not surprising. But they were wrong.
I don't think this can be classified as a "conspiracy" because quite honestly the Libs are not that smart.
But I agree. The map is pretty.
Robby Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
The only ones I trust doing an exit poll are the proctologists. They're specialists at "exits"... My company tried to contract some for a "back" order problem we were having. However, we had to let them go. It seems they were always in arrears... I'm never comfortable when a poll get's too close to my exit...
jdrabinski Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
tailgater,

How is bad exit polling anything other than a mistaken calculation? The voting was over before they posted anything about the results. What would be the point of the 'liberal conspiracy'? To mislead the public for a few hours before the vote was counted? Huh? Say wha?

You reactionaries will find the liberal media conspiracy anywhere. It is really quite comical. Here's the key: THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY! THE MEDIA IS OWNED BY GIGANTIC CORPORATIONS WHO HAVE NO INTEREST IN THINGS LIKE SOCIAL JUSTICE OR HIGHER TAXES OR WHATEVER YOU THINK LIBERALS REPRESENT. THEY JUST WANT TO MAKE MONEY.

Where would this bias and conspiracy come from? What a joke.

John
E-Chick Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2002
Posts: 4,877
Whichever colors the map dictates are for whom...Bush won...end of story...Thank GOD!
E-Chick Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2002
Posts: 4,877
Forgot something...

BLAH-BLAH-BLAH, BLAH-BLAH-BLAH-BLAH...
justforfun Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 03-06-2002
Posts: 797
All I see on the map is RED. After listening to all this rehashed banter, all I can see or think of is RED. RED WINS -- oops, RED WON! It's Deja Vu all over again - Yogi Berra.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
jdrabinski

maintain!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,618
Read..."Bias: A CBS Insider Exposes How the Media Distort the News", and tell us after reading this that it's JUST about money!!!!


"WAKE UP" - RATM
DrMaddVibe Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,618
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/elections/electionnight.html


Problems of Early Calls
This leads to the second, more serious problem afflicting the polls: the early call of Florida for Gore made between 7:49 and 8:10 P.M.EST on election night by all major networks (led by NBC) and the Associated Press based on the VNS exit poll.At the time, with other major battleground states such as NewYork,Michigan,and Illinois falling into the Democratic camp, it appeared to commentators
and observers that Gore was heading for a comfortable victory. There were a number of potential problems about this particular call. First, the result in
Florida was announced on the networks before polling stations had actually closed in all counties in the state,namely, the panhandle northwest, in the central
time zone, that tended to favor Bush. It is possible that this announcement could have discouraged some last-minute voters from casting their ballots, if they
believed that the outcomewas already cut and dried. This probably affected only a few Floridians, although, given the closeness of the eventual outcome, every vote counted. The second issue—calling the results from states on the East Coast before the polls have closed in theWest—is nothing new to the presidential election. The most famous example is President Jimmy Carter’s concession to Ronald Reagan in 1980 prior to the close of polls in California, thereby, it is argued, depressing electoral support for some Democratic House members in that state. But Republicans believe that the early call in Florida discouraged Californian Republicans from voting, for example, on their way home from work. Yet, studies remain divided about the effects of early network calls.On one hand,some argue that there is a modest “bandwagon” effect, with undecided voters
moving toward the candidate ahead in the polls.On the other hand,some suggest an “underdog” effect, with polls slightly strengthening the motivation and turnout
of those supporting the losing candidate. Given the lack of convincing evidence either way, a case can be made that both possible effects may cancel each other out.
(Taken from http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/presspol/news_events/Too%20Close%20to%20Call.pdf)
Robby Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
Indeed, "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you!" Oh, and sorry for poking fun at proctologists, those were some bad cracks, I'm glad they're behind us now.
RDC Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 01-21-2000
Posts: 5,874
Can you imagine what would be going on if Gore had won?
He'd be sending billions of dollars to Sadam to help his people and we never would have gone looking for Bin Laden.
MESIII Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 01-02-2003
Posts: 5
Charlie. I'm curious, can you tell me why "Thank God" for Bush winning? I'm not saying I wanted him to lose, but why "Thank God" for him winning. What the hell has he done? Please enlighten me. Al Gore could just have easily let the economy tank, have no plan to fix it and let Saddam make an ass out of him by winning the delay game. I just don't get it. In 2000 we, as a country didnt have a choice, they both sucked and theyre both LOSERS. Anyone want me to change my mind? SHOW ME RESULTS!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,618
Clinton was letting the economy tank LONG before the election with his non-diplomatic(foreign AND domestic) efforts!

Speak TRUTH if you're going to speak at all!
E-Chick Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2002
Posts: 4,877
Thank God for all of the blessings He has bestowed upon us...
hoagie55 Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 03-01-2003
Posts: 909
John, Take a look at this in 10-20 years and see if there is an asterick besides GW's name. I doubt you'll see it and I bet you he gets a good rating as a president by the professionals historians.

Robby Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
MESIII "and let Saddam make an ass out of him by winning the delay game" So you'll be cheering with me when we start dropping the MOAB? :-) Clearly you're not interested in any more delay, right? So you want to get this party started as the song says, right!!??
tailgater Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
As I previously stated, there was no conspiracy by the liberal media. They are not smart enough.
But their "miscalculations" combined with their insistence to call florida for Gore before the panhandle closed polls definately affected the results.
Certainly votes for both sides were never cast due to the result being announced. But in a predominately republican geography, who would have received more votes?
Or are you still looking for your hanging chad?
rayder1 Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 06-02-2002
Posts: 2,226
I learned something.

The further west you go, the counties get larger.

Sorry, I just read the first half dozen posts and got bored.

I'm going back in my box now.
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