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Last post 21 years ago by Lazygardner. 22 replies replies.
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tailgater Offline
#1 Posted: Tue, Mar 25 2003, 4:07 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
How can anybody that calls themself American support Michael Moore's deplorable words the other night?

Hiding behind the First Amendment is just that: Hiding.

Since when is it considered "American" to demoralize our troops that are now engaged?

Cripes, it wasn't too long ago when citizens of this very ilk spat at and swore at the veterans returning from Viet Nam. Was that OK too????

These Heros are half a world away fighting for our freedoms and safety. Calling their mission "fictitious" is as Un-American as words can be.

Moore used his stage to spew beyond his normal anti-republican lies. He crossed over the line.

To ignore that, or even worse, to SUPPORT that is the most heinous statements ever posted on these boards.

Our children are dying over there and you choose to demoralize them by belittling their efforts and their purpose. Shame on you. And you know who you are.
Slimboli Offline
#2 Posted: Tue, Mar 25 2003, 4:36 AM EST
Joined: 07-09-2000
Posts: 16,139
Man ... if we all thought alike, think of what a boring world it would be.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion ... and some people, it seems, just have a hard time dealing with that.

Charlie Offline
#3 Posted: Tue, Mar 25 2003, 5:14 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Slim

Opinions are mixed and varied, it is the time and place of expression that causes the rub. Look how much money our peace loving demonstrators are costing the city of San Francisco, let alone takin police away from other important areas of need.

Charlie
RDC Offline
#4 Posted: Tue, Mar 25 2003, 5:29 AM EST
Joined: 01-21-2000
Posts: 5,874
Speaking of the Anti-War individuals... why is it that when they have a rally many of them are violent and get arrested, while the supporters (ME!) do not get arrested?
Slimboli Offline
#5 Posted: Tue, Mar 25 2003, 5:41 AM EST
Joined: 07-09-2000
Posts: 16,139
Charlie --- your point is well taken, but 'God bless America' that they have the right to do it ...

RDC --- that question is a 'no-brainer' ...
tailgater Offline
#6 Posted: Tue, Mar 25 2003, 7:17 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
This isn't about disagreeing in principle.
This is about actions (words) that will likely cause further detriment and danger to our young men and women.
Don't for one second be so naive as to believe that Iraqi's are not using outtakes like moore's as a sort of propaganda to rally their troops. Just as we Americans feel proud when thousands of Iraqi soldiers surrender with little effort, the Iraqi's will beat their chests with pride when they feel Americans are weakening their determination.

I want this war to be ended yesterday. I'm proud of the groups of people who gather to support our troops. And I'm also overwhelmed with emotions when I read about local PEACE rally's that don't turn into anti-republican propaganda forums.
Peace rallys should be peaceful, not hurtful. One local Peace gathering had good hearted folks with Peace signs, began with a candle-light vigil, and ended with songs including God Bless America.
How refreshing.

Freedoms should be embraced, not exploited.

I stand by what I said.
Not because of intolerance, as you suggest. But because of immense pride in this country of ours. Because it's OK to disagree with our government, but it's not OK to endanger those who protect it.

Look at the big picture. Is it impossible to suggest that Iraqi emotion can turn into momentum?

Consider the consequences, then act responsibly. Moore didn't do that. Nor do the war protestors who block streets. What if somebody needed to get to the hospital, but was stuck in the traffic jam?

Inconsiderate? It goes way beyond that.
This isn't "My way or the highway" mentality. I'm not the one who's likely to get hurt by their thoughtless diatribe. But neither are they.
Slimboli Offline
#7 Posted: Tue, Mar 25 2003, 7:24 AM EST
Joined: 07-09-2000
Posts: 16,139
Reminds me of and old grade school saying ...

... sticks and stones will break my bones ... but words will never hurt me.
tailgater Offline
#8 Posted: Tue, Mar 25 2003, 7:46 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Had moore taken the opposite approach and called the Iraqi people "sand ****s", his career would be over.

Instead, he called our troops' mission "fictitious" and his words are embraced by First Amendment junkies.

Would the left be so ready to accept his freedom of speech had he labeled the enemy as such?

Robby Offline
#9 Posted: Tue, Mar 25 2003, 1:00 PM EST
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
uh oh, were you thinking that, or did you actually type it! =:-o
groucho Offline
#10 Posted: Tue, Mar 25 2003, 10:14 PM EST
Joined: 11-27-2001
Posts: 44
also:

he mentioned for the hundrenth time "the appointed president"

this SOB makes me sick. he hides behind "anti-war" sentiment, but he's really just anti-bush, anti-conservative, etc.

blah, blah, freakin' blah

Micheal "Less is" Moore: please go away and STFU.
cwilhelmi Offline
#11 Posted: Wed, Mar 26 2003, 8:39 AM EST
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
tailgater -

If you support Free Speech then it doesn't matter if it's Michael Moore or the KKK, they both have a right to be heard. I choose not to listen to either of them and vehemently oppose both of them. But in the end, either you support Free Speech or you don't, there is NO gray area.

Debating whether or not he should have said what he did, in the forum he chose is worthless. He was completely tactless and moronic in his speech, and the crowd showed their disapproval, as has everyone I've spoken with.

Yesterday the Iraqi television system crashed, so don't worry about a rebroadcast, and if you think Moore's little speech is enough to rally Iraqi troops then I think you're being quite naive. I would venture a guess that the majority of the Iraqi soldiers are not so blind as to think they will actually win, hence the enormous number of surrendering troops.
Charlie Offline
#12 Posted: Wed, Mar 26 2003, 8:47 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
I just hope that the Fat Bag of Puss ruined his career with that little act he put on at the Academy Awards ceremony!

Charlie
Slimboli Offline
#13 Posted: Wed, Mar 26 2003, 9:13 AM EST
Joined: 07-09-2000
Posts: 16,139
That won't happen, Charlie ... you know it as well as I do.

... his statements most likely just made him more well known (especially to those who weren't familiar with his work in the past), and will probably benefit his career in the long run.

Heck ... if Roman Polanski can get an Oskar after what he did, it just goes to show you that if the work is good enough ... nothing else seems to matter.
RDC Offline
#14 Posted: Wed, Mar 26 2003, 9:18 AM EST
Joined: 01-21-2000
Posts: 5,874
Screw Roman Polanski too!
Hey, doesnt he live in FRANCE these days?!?!
tailgater Offline
#15 Posted: Wed, Mar 26 2003, 9:39 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Chris, I believe there is indeed grey area.
It's like capital punishment: I'm against murder, but believe in capital punishment. Kinda grey, isn't it?

Freedom of speech should be embraced. By all. But to abuse it is wrong. Plain and simple.
I believe you and I disagree mostly on whether he actually abused it or not.
I think he did. Not because of what he said, but rather the timing. You think it's OK to blurt out anything at any time, even at the remote chance it could hurt our troops. So we differ.

In my opinion, our country would be better off without leeches like Moore. In fact, I think the earth would be a better place without him. And I think I've made that clear.

But this doesn't mean that we can't continue to discuss the merits of both sides over a nice cigar. Now THAT'S a freedom we both agree on.
cwilhelmi Offline
#16 Posted: Wed, Mar 26 2003, 11:17 AM EST
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
For me there is no gray area, if you don't like the way some people choose to use their freedom of speech then protest their cause or their movies or whatever. I realize that certain subjects like capital punishment allow for more gray area, when it comes to FOS I see a crystal clear line separating repression and expression.

And I definitely agree that we could debate this for hours along with some fine cigars and scotch!!
plabonte Offline
#17 Posted: Wed, Mar 26 2003, 12:45 PM EST
Joined: 09-11-2000
Posts: 2,131
There are limits to freedom of speech. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater, you can't say bomb in an airport, you can't go on stage with Aerosmith at their concert and sing on the mic with them.

Did Moore cross the line, I don't think so. He was after all invited up to the mic so he could address the crowd. Was his speech inappropriate? Maybe, but not any less then your use of the N word.

cwilhelmi Offline
#18 Posted: Wed, Mar 26 2003, 1:12 PM EST
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
Obviously there are limits, but there is also a clear line between protected speech and unprotected speech. Sorry for not stating the obvious sooner...
tailgater Offline
#19 Posted: Wed, Mar 26 2003, 5:02 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
the n word?

c'mon, this is America. Free speech, man...
use whatever words you want.

And thank you (!) for making my point.
Cigarick Offline
#20 Posted: Wed, Mar 26 2003, 5:53 PM EST
Joined: 07-28-2002
Posts: 3,078
> Did Moore cross the line, I don't think so.
> Was his speech inappropriate? Maybe

It was worse than inappropriate--it was tasteless, tactless, and totally ficticious.
Robby Offline
#21 Posted: Wed, Mar 26 2003, 6:05 PM EST
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
yeaup, yeaup, and yeaaaaaaup. But the reality is, he has the right to be an a$$hole if he chooses to... Like it or not. It's the necessary evil of free speach. Vote with your dollars...
usahog Offline
#22 Posted: Wed, Mar 26 2003, 6:24 PM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Like I have Stated let this SOB run his Yapper in a Bar down around Camp Pendleton or even down where I've been before Partying with the 101st Airborn and say exactly what he said that night.... He wouldn't make it out of the place... see its a matter of Tactness.... and like the Dixie Chicks... these People represent a higher standard something people used to look up to.. but in real life they turn out to be low life Scum...

Hog
Lazygardner Offline
#23 Posted: Thu, Mar 27 2003, 1:33 PM EST
Joined: 08-20-2002
Posts: 176
It's "Freedom of Speech" not a right to be heard. We can turn away and ignore people like Moore. I expected something on the telecaste, didn't know where it would come from, so I boycotted the Oscars. I heard that viewership was down 15% from last year. Was it the war coverage, or people like me simply turning away? LG
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