America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all...

Sounds real good to me. Do you think that 'God' should be removed from the pledge?

Mag

No! I think we should add Brahma,Allah and the All Powerful Force. Or maybe where the word God is, we could put: "State your deity here".

Why is it that we have to be tollerant of Islam, budah, satanism, etc, etc. Yet Christianity and its teachings are thrown out the window.

Nice analogy Phenix

The word for today is....xian




Will that be egg-drop or wonton soup?

I belive in this country and what it stands for. Yes this country was made for people of all kinds and backgrounds to be FREE. However is freedom realy free??
I don't belive we should be able to tell people "you must say the pledge of legions" if you don't belive in God, well that's your perogative, and you should be able to choose! However I don't think we should be able to just erase the pledge, and tell people that because the word "God" is in it, it goes against religious freedom!
This country was founded by Christian men, escaping religious persecution, so everythimg this men grafted had their belifs in it. Why do we allways bitch and complain. GET OVER IT!!
I myself belive in ONE God, all powerfull, omnipresent, I belive that he is the only way. But I cannot make others belive the same way I do, nor do I expect everyone. But onthe other hand, why should my rights be any less than those of a muslim or an atheist? I have rights as well!!! Am I not as important because of what I choose to belive?

"Make our new neighbors feel welcome"

Yep, that's what I'm getting at. Well-put, direct and straightforward.

John

Sorry XDog. That's not one of my unalieniable rights, I don't have to bend for anyone! If you want to bend, get bent all you want!

Don't Tread On Me!

Anyone name this document? Does anyone read this and understand this anymore? If not, then perhaps the WRONG people are here and THEY need to LEAVE!

We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name and by the authority of the good people of these colonies solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British crown and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain is, and ought to be, totally dissolved; and that, as free and independent states, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do. (PAY ATTENTION EVERYONE, HERE COMES THE HOOK!)And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.

For a little more clarification:
http://www.postersfromtheheart.com/divine_providence.htm

"...fortunes..." Bill Gates owes me some money:-)

RDC...United we conquer...divided we fall.

It wasn't part of the original Pledge of allegiance and shouldn't have been added! This has been covered too many times and the same crap keeps coming up.

The religious people who feel better about themselves and their faith by having God in their pledge want it, and everyone else who realizes that we don't need it in the pledge because it was not originally there and does not deserve to be there, want it out.

Argue away, but I hope the SC does what's right and takes it out...

Perhaps its time to relook at how open we are as a nation. Take a self-imposed "time-out" from the world's "beat cop" and use the time to reflect on what our nation means to us.

Wide open public debate. A return to townhalls, and here is where most will fail...waiting till a person is done stating their viewpoint. American's used to enjoy listening to debates(see Lincoln vs. Douglas), but have relegated themselves into snippet thinking. Instant gratification and media bombardment have permeated men's minds. People(some)don't want to think for themselves. It requires thinking and action.

While taking ourselves out of circulation would give us a chance to heal, I wonder what the rest of the world would do without us and our money? Think for a second how better off, we could be if we stopped and healed ourselves(nation)and actually became "United" again!

RDC - so, that doesn't make it right or necessary.

There was a lot of BS that went on during the cold war, people being persecuted as communists with no evidence as one example and CHANGING our pledge of allegiance to make us feel better about ourselves as another.

This has been discussed before the court case and has been fought since it's enception. Most people just choose not to listen, or choose not to care...

As for the notion that "nowhere does it state that we are a xian nation", that's not the point.

Nowhere does it state that people have the right not to be offended, yet everyday we hear of lawsuits made over nothing more than off-colored remarks.

Let's face it, if the words "under God" were not already in place, nobody would be fighting to put them in. It's the fact that they are there, and to remove them takes time and effort.
And for what?
Really?

Actually non-believers make up 14-17% and growing, here are some FACTS if you really want to know...

During 2001-FEB to APR, the Graduate Center of the City University of New York conducted an American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS). It was a massive poll, questioning 50,281 American adults about their religious affiliations during 2001-FEB to APR. 2 They obtained some results that are noticeably different from the Pluralism Project's data. The differences are mainly because they asked their poll subjects what religion they considered themselves to be, rather than what religion they were actually affiliated with.
Results included:
76.5% of American adults are Christian (52% Protestant; 24.5% Catholic).
14.1% do not follow any organized religion; they are Agnostics, Atheists, Humanists, Secularists, or have no religious affiliation.
1.3% are Jewish.
0.5% are Muslim, followers of Islam.
0.5% are Buddhist.
0.4% are Hindu.
0.3% are Unitarian Universalist.
0.1% are Neopagan (Druids, Pagans, Wiccans, etc)
There are many more small religions, each of whom are followed by fewer than 0.1% of American adults.

-Attendance at religious services
According to the ARIS survey, in the United States, 76.5% of adults identified themselves as Christians during early 2001. 2 This number is dropping almost one percentage point per year. There has also been a drop in the percentage of American adults who attend religious services regularly. It has gone from 49% in 1991 to 36% in 1996. Reduction in attendance is a worldwide phenomenon among industrialized countries. The US is believed to have the highest attendance rates; Canada has about 20%; Australia, England and the rest of Europe are 10% or less. The general trend is downwards as societies become more secular.

These numbers are almost always taken from public opinion polls, in which people are asked how often they attended church or other religious service during the previous month. Until recently, it was assumed that people tell the truth when asked this type of question. A second way of estimating these numbers is to take a small geographical area (e.g. a county) and actually count the number of attendees. This has been done in some counties in the U.S. and Canada. They show church attendance at about half the above figures. It seems that people often tell the pollsters what they think that they should be doing, not what they actually do.

Only rarely are people polled about the importance that religion plays in their life. It is simple to identify oneself as following a particular religion. But that term covers both the devout, sincere believer and the nominal adherent. One source 5 described the results of a 1993 in-depth survey of about 4,000 American adults. They concluded that:

30% are totally secular in outlook
29% are barely or nominally religions
22% are modestly religious
19% regularly practice their religion.


http://www.religioustolerance.org/us_rel1.htm

A google search of "God" pulls up "about 58,300,000 links.

Who is this God and why is he so popular on the internet?

A google search of "Devil" pulls up "about 10,400,000 links.

Who is this Devil and why is he not as popular as God?

Many people I know believe in a greater power, but don’t belong to any one religion. That does not make them a believer in nothingness

because it's LIBERTY and JUSTICE for all, not just the majority...

Well said tonester666,, but see some of the people on this board will label them racists and such for speaking there point of view.

The first post a ever made on cbid, I was called a racist, a gun nut and a few other things,. And I never once said one word about race nor guns. That’s just the liberal way and most people don’t want to be called that sort of stuff.

65gtoman - I'm a gun nut! I own three and am looking to buy my forth soon.

Mike,

Rights and principles are there to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

Simple majoritarian rule is tyrannical...a simple 51% would mean that whatever that 51% wants, goes. The other 49% would be screwed, without recourse or protection. No one wants to live like that, I think.

Also, I often hear ambiguous claims about 'lawsuits' because someone was 'offended.' Would someone please direct me to one? I never actually SEE one, just hearsay to make a rhetorical point.

Why can't xians (x = 'chi,' DMV...familiar convention and abbreviation) practice in privacy? Why the insistence on having their symbols on EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE? I find it incredibly imperialistic, actually.

A little privacy for all, please!

John

Chi-ians? WTF are those? The people that wanted to kill that Cubs fan the other night?

How's 'bout...DON'T TREAD ON ME!

You are part of the problem.

SteveS wrote:

"don't see that word being in the pledge as constituting the imposition of a state religion"

How are we to take the word God, except as a religious name?

DMV...do you not know this convention? It isn't like I invented it. Asking to not have christian (I spelled it...feel better?) stuff everywhere treads on you HOW? So far as I can see, putting it there in the first place treads on ME. Keep it at home. Where it belongs.

John

Steve you beat me to it.

A little contradiction from cw. If you read some of the history that has been alluded to here you will know that separation of church and state does in no way reflect that God must be stricken from all government publications, buildings, etc.

Look at your money if the word God causes so much grief for you get rid of everything you own that says in God we trust. You are free to move somewhere that agrees with you.

The vocal minority have twisted and pushed this country where we do not wish to see it go. Cut off Cali and the majority of the minority go with it.

Who crams it down your throat? Are you forced to say the pledge or pray? Does anyone force you to go to church? Do Christians, Hindus or Muslims knock on your door daily saying repent and be saved my BOTL? They don't where I live. So don't tell me I can't have God there and I won't tell you you have to be a believer.