America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 20 years ago by Danielg. 116 replies replies.
3 Pages<123>
One Nation Under God...
Jump to Bottom | Previous Topic | Next Topic
RDC Offline
#51 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 11:17 AM EST
Joined: 01-21-2000
Posts: 5,874
Know God, Know Patience
No God, No Patience
Tobasco Offline
#52 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 11:28 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809

Some people are ignorant to other folks feelings about God. Like using the term xian or calling Christ a "big long haired white dude". Its just not right.

I think this person knows it isnt right, but likes to try and insult others with subtle remarks. And act like they are done innocently, when they obviously arent.

If this person truthfully doesnt realize what he's doing, then there is an obvious lack of knowledge in this subject. This person should move on and quit insulting others. Just my opinion...

Mag
DrMaddVibe Offline
#53 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 11:35 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,633
Actually Mike...I think these types of people need to read the Constitution, The Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights. Reading the Federalist Papers would be wise too.

Don't like God in your life? Give me your money. It has God all over it. I won't be offended to spend your God money!
xrundog Offline
#54 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 11:48 AM EST
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
The main issue about the pledge began with the saying of it in schools. Usually the same schools where they want to have a prayer. This all has a Christian bias. Why? Because like you guys say, this country was founded on Christian principles. Now, I'm thinking about the non-christian kid in school. He doesn't have to pray you say. Sure, but by not doing so, the kid seperates himself. He's excluded. Might feel the same way with the pledge. "His" God's name is Brahman. Or is maybe nameless and referring to it is inappropriate. If he doesn't say God, someone WILL notice. And you can bet he'll be picked on. I think today it's more appropriate for religion to be private. Yes, it's inevitable that some references will come up. But what we all have in common is our CITIZENSHIP in this great country. I think it is better to emphasize our common experiences and de-emphasize our differences.
jdrabinski Offline
#55 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 12:05 PM EST
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
"Some people are ignorant to other folks feelings about God. Like using the term xian or calling Christ a "big long haired white dude". Its just not right."

Get it straight, here: I called GOD that. I have it on the authority of the Vatican itself, witnessed with my own eyes. On the Sistine Chapel ceiling:

Big - He's God, for God's sake. Of course He's big.
Long Haired - He has long hair. No two ways about it.
White - He is white. Not even much olive tint to his skin, as I recall, but I am actually color-blind, so I might be a bit off on that.
Dude - He is, after all, "He."

Lighten up. And I am actually factually correct on this.

Are people here offended by xian? Please. I correspond with a priest, an old English professor of mine (I went to a Jesuit college), and he always writes 'Xian.' In fact, that's where I learned the abbreviation.

Is he 'denying' his own faith? Please. Chill.

John
DrMaddVibe Offline
#56 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 12:11 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,633
XDog, that doesn't make sense.

That's as bad as one person that live close to you has an allergy to BBQ chicken. You make it on your grill and it cheeses this person off. They can smell it, and they can remember what it tasted like, but if they eat it they'll have an allegic reaction, and if this person came over to your house or picketed your business you'd stop grilling BBQ chicken. Now you're put out because you can't have what you want! That's not any type of freedom that America is based on! The majority does rule. Tyranny, schmnarry! Don't like it...sway people to your side. So far this whole case is built on the 9th district and this divorced father that's wired the same way as CBid's nutty "professor"! How many of you know that this kook's daughter stood in front of her school and actually led hed school in reciting the Pledge way before this nut job filed this frivilious suit? She did. Anyone know why mom got custody? Look it up. The dad is a flaming goofball!

America is built on tolerance, but it doesn't mean you have to cave in because someone says to. The same goes for the ACLU thread that's on here. Representing child molesters for free is a violation of who's legal(and I stress LEGAL)rights!?! Would they represent the sodomized kid?

You don't petition the judicial system to introduce legislation. That's the rub. Not one politician would DARE stand on Capitol Hill and raise their fist to say they're going to take the word God out of everything.
tarheel4lyf Offline
#57 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 12:11 PM EST
Joined: 09-23-2002
Posts: 2,543
Questioning 50,000 people can never give you the breakdown of America when there are at least 281,421,906 people in America. Religion and CHRIST are never shoved in your face or down your throat, except by the people that go door to door. What is shoved down people's throats is the anti-religion sentiment.
Tobasco Offline
#58 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 1:12 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809

JD

I dont care where you got your info from. You are incorrect. I'm a lector in my church, I'm now a euchurstic minister and alter server too. I read to the clergy from the old and new testimant every week.

So dont tell me that you know more than I do about Christian terminology. You dont live it, I do. You will NEVER see God or Christ called 'dude' anywhere. That is in my opinion being very disrespectful.

Would you go up to the President, or a 4 Star General and call him dude? Of course not! God, Christ, the Pope or any other religions important persons or positions deserve respect. Even from non believers.

Mag

xrundog Offline
#59 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 1:16 PM EST
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
So trying to find a basic level where all Americans can abide together on a common footing doesn't make sense. Trying to love and understand your neighbor doesn't make sense. Where you guys live maybe it's just "one person". Where I live it's LOTS more. Lots of Vietnamese and folks from India. And I live a stone's throw from the Nation's Capital! We are Americans. I embrace my neighbor on that basis. What could be more American. Or more Christian? The BBQ chicken analogy is weak. What we are talking about is WAY more important. It's not right to sgregate or exclude someone in this country because of their religion. Or lack of it. These are issues that have been hotly debated since the first guy stepped off the first boat. The Constitution is a living breathing document which reflects the times in which we live. Things don't stay the same. Ever. Anywhere.

Hmmmm. A little disjointed. But the sentiment is right.
BeatDragon Offline
#60 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 1:53 PM EST
Joined: 02-28-2003
Posts: 4,754
Why are you people arguing opinions? It is absolutley absurd and a waste of time. He likes blue, he likes red, so what. Does it really make a difference. Are you all so self involved that you have to kick and scream at each other because you dont see things the same way? Why can't we just let each other have there own opinon and feelings without damning them for it! You dont agree, so what. Light up a stogie and change the subject. I read these posts and laugh, like this all so important that you have to have these tizzy fits when someone disagrees with you. Its the CigarBid chat room for (place whatever word you feel appropriate here) sake!

BE HAPPY PEOPLE!

Peace Out

BD
xrundog Offline
#61 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 2:15 PM EST
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
Beat, Of course you are right. I admit it. I took the bait. It just looked so damn tasty!
cwilhelmi Offline
#62 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 2:16 PM EST
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
Mag - "God, Christ, the Pope or any other religions important persons or positions deserve respect. Even from non believers."

Why? If I don't believe they have any significance to me then why should I respect them? I may have enough respect for my friends and family not to chastise them for believing differently or speaking badly about something they feel strongly about, but I owe no respect to anything religious.

Throughout all of these discussions I TRY not to offend anyone intentionally by being an **** (65gtoman excluded because he likes to attack me for no reason) on subjects we disagree on, sometimes I get fired up and respond before I re-read and if I offend someone, other than just the fact that we disagree and they don't like what I'm saying, then I'm truly sorry.
Tobasco Offline
#63 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 2:19 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809

BeatDragon

You just wasted some of your time, and didnt even add to the topic. Look how many posts are on this thread which isnt even a day old. Its not important to you obviously, but to others its worth debating.

I'm trying my best to debate without any insults. This is a touchy subject though, and can bring out some emotional responces.

Mag
Tobasco Offline
#64 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 2:38 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809

Chris are you really serious? You dont understand why respect is deserved by these people? Are you saying that you dont respect people that disagree with you?

Then you have no respect for me do you? Respect should be given to everybody. And in my opinion, people in religious positions sacrafice more of their time and give of their heart to help others in need. Isnt that a good enough reason too?

You dont have to believe, to see that churches of all denominations help the poor, help children learn values and morals, help the unfortunate people in other countries, comfort the sick and the dying.

Chris you really need to take another look at this. What is negative about any of the things I mentioned? The churches will help anyone, even non believers. How can this be taken so negatively by you. I dont understand your position. If you dont believe, thats fine. But to actually say that you have no respect for these people is hard for me to understand.

Mag

BeatDragon Offline
#65 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 2:40 PM EST
Joined: 02-28-2003
Posts: 4,754
Mag,

It wasnt a waste of my time. I am not involved in the debate, which is what I was referring to. And I never will join these types of "Discussions", Here or any where else. I have my beliefs and I keep them to myself. I grew up in a very religeous invironment and have seen the hyopocracy in all factions of beliefs. So I just stay out of these discussions. Its not going to go anywhere or sway anybody. Might as well go scream at the sky. This topic can't be discussed, obviously, in a safe and sane manner. Not on this forum or anywhere else. To many strong beliefs shooting in different directions. Just let them be. Why is there a need to debate with people that do not, will not, see your side and vise versa. It just leads to animosity and hatred. No one will ever be right, or wrong but yet you all keep "shouting at the sky".
BeatDragon Offline
#66 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 2:45 PM EST
Joined: 02-28-2003
Posts: 4,754
Mag,

Your last post is a prime example of what I am talking about.

Chris doesnt see it your way. Never will. Yet you continue to push.

The I was taught is that Christ walked the Earth and who ever wanted to listen followed. If they wished not to, he let them be.
cwilhelmi Offline
#67 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 2:47 PM EST
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
Mag - did you read my whole post? I don't think you did!

I don't owe "God, Christ, the Pope or any other religions important persons or positions" repsect simply due to their religious beliefs is my point.

I think you missunderstood my post.

Tobasco Offline
#68 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 2:53 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809

Beatdragon

Why even debate anything at all then? These boards are here for discussions. Have you ever seen anyone change their position on political threads? I havent. But they are discussed here everyday.

I'm glad you know your limitations I guess. But thats you, and thats fine. So all I can say is move along and let us debate. Its not hurting you is it? Well, then nuff said...

Mag

cwilhelmi Offline
#69 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 2:54 PM EST
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
One other thing to clarify, I'm not saying I disrespect them because they're religious either, It doesn't factor into whether or not I respect someone so I won't respect someone for only that reason.
BeatDragon Offline
#70 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 2:55 PM EST
Joined: 02-28-2003
Posts: 4,754
Nope. Not hurtin me a bit

Carry on

See you at the carwash. Ill bring the Padrons!
Tobasco Offline
#71 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 2:59 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809

Ok Chris, I'll except that. Maybe I didnt interpret your post correctly as you said...

Mag
tonester666 Offline
#72 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 4:20 PM EST
Joined: 05-07-2003
Posts: 1,324
I agree that no ones's opinion will be changed by this banter. That happens when they are on their death bed and all of a sudden they think - what if I was wrong.

As far as tolerance why should we change what we have been doing when someone new comes to live here? Why aren't they the ones who need to be tolerant and accept what we believe? Not believe it just accept that we do.

I would not go to a country that bows towards Mecca and say this offends me stop it.

Sorry folks but the majority takes preference. Life is not fair and never will be.

jd many christians find it very offensive to replace Christ with X. Ask the folks you debate with if they use that term loosely or only when engaging with you.

As I said earlier separation of church and state was never meant to suggest that the government can not recognize God. Simply that the state can not mandate a religion like England did.
RknRmnd Offline
#73 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 5:02 PM EST
Joined: 10-16-2001
Posts: 407
Thanks Mag for bringing this point to the surface. Anyone convinced against their will is of the same opinion still. No matter what they say to the public. When I was in school it was an honor to say the pledge of allegiance to the United States of America. Maybe some don't like what that stands for. We also had a time of silence as to not offend anyone. Last time I looked at my legal tender .. did I say legal? Wow.. it had In God We Trust on it. Just one point to ponder as well.
RJ
Tobasco Offline
#74 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 6:08 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809
Chris, is this factual or just a guess as I suspect?

I QUOTE:

"The thing that cracks me up is most of the people who fight for this crap are the ones who are insecure in their beliefs and need to push it onto others to feel good about themselves. The majority of deeply religious people could care less because there are more important things for them."

Where do the facts come from to back up this statement?

Mag
Tobasco Offline
#75 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 6:10 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809
RknRmnd

Hey its good to hear from you! Light up a smoke and hang around a while... :>)

Mag
cwilhelmi Offline
#76 Posted: Thu, Oct 16 2003, 7:23 PM EST
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
My opinion and experience...
tarheel4lyf Offline
#77 Posted: Fri, Oct 17 2003, 7:47 AM EST
Joined: 09-23-2002
Posts: 2,543
it's funny how past personality conflicts become a factor in the debates here. Two people make nearly the same argument to another person, yet that person slams one while debating cordially with the other. This is why the forum is going to the ****.
Tobasco Offline
#78 Posted: Fri, Oct 17 2003, 9:14 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809

Which slam are you speaking of tar?

Mag
xrundog Offline
#79 Posted: Fri, Oct 17 2003, 9:42 AM EST
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
Just wanna make a comment on the "xian" issue. Do you guys find "xmas" really offensive too?
Tobasco Offline
#80 Posted: Fri, Oct 17 2003, 10:27 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809
No, xrundog Xmas is acceptable. In my opinion it's not the prefered version, but it isnt disrespectful.

The word "Christmas" means "Mass of Christ," later shortened to "Christ-Mass." The even shorter form "Xmas" - first used in Europe in the 1500s - is derived from the Greek alphabet, in which X is the first letter of Christ's name: Xristos, therefore "X-Mass."

Most folks dont even know this.

If you do a search for 'xian' though, nothing religious comes up. I checked that one on google. It's not an accepted abbreviation if Christian.

I hope this clears up the misunderstanding.

Mag
Cigarick Offline
#81 Posted: Fri, Oct 17 2003, 9:58 PM EST
Joined: 07-28-2002
Posts: 3,078
> Most folks dont even know this.

How many are "most folks," and how many of them have you interviewed?
Tobasco Offline
#82 Posted: Fri, Oct 17 2003, 10:52 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809
I dont need to interview.

I have been a lector at my church for almost 2 years. I read from the new and old testimate every week. This issue isnt addresed since Ive been reading. I'm nearly through all the readings.

Any more questions or remarks? I dont think you are going to know more about this, so dont waste your time.

I'm not just a lector, I'm a aucharistic minister and alter server. I will someday become a 'Knight of Columbus'

Mag
Steve*R Offline
#83 Posted: Sun, Oct 19 2003, 5:25 PM EST
Joined: 07-23-2001
Posts: 1,858
Irrespective of one's claims of religious authority and observance, it's necesary to face the reality that the U.S. is a nation founded on pluralistic principles, and that even the most conservative court will require that "under God" be deleted from the pledge of allegiance.
Danielg Offline
#84 Posted: Sun, Oct 19 2003, 6:42 PM EST
Joined: 08-16-2003
Posts: 24
Steve,
Even the devil knows the Bible word for word....

"For GOD so loved the world, that HE gave HIS only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in HIM should not perish, but have everlasting life."

HE still loves all of you! Deny HIM as did the Jews, but HIS love is greater than your hate.

dg
Steve*R Offline
#85 Posted: Sun, Oct 19 2003, 7:34 PM EST
Joined: 07-23-2001
Posts: 1,858
Danielg: With all due respect to you, I think you need to cherish your religious beliefs and not demean them on a commercial cigar bulletin board.

My religious beliefs have nothing whatever to do with an opinion on a future Supreme Court decision.
cwilhelmi Offline
#86 Posted: Mon, Oct 20 2003, 1:27 PM EST
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
SteveR - Well said!
Danielg Offline
#87 Posted: Tue, Oct 21 2003, 4:58 AM EST
Joined: 08-16-2003
Posts: 24
Steve,
What you call demeaning i call witnessing. Same as i do not practice "religion". You can "religiously" do many things in your life. "religious"? I "religiously" light up a cigar after a steak dinner. I "reliegiously" brush my teeth every night before bed. However I study and read the Bible as a Christian, not a "religious student".
I understand you have your beliefs, (or lack thereof) however I do not ask you to take your words somewhere else. I read them and acknowledge that there are some who are lost. I only offer you words of comfort.

John 3:16

Have a great day.

Oh CW, was that almost an "Amen" I heard out of you. ;o)
jdrabinski Offline
#88 Posted: Tue, Oct 21 2003, 6:04 AM EST
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
I think Steve may have a point here: there is something odd about 'witnessing' on a cigar bulletin board. It does seem demeaning to supposedly deeply held, precious beliefs.

Aren't cigars 'sticks of sin'? LOL!

John
65gtoman Offline
#89 Posted: Tue, Oct 21 2003, 7:35 AM EST
Joined: 06-12-2003
Posts: 858

Jehovah witness>? I would like to give you all some advice my lawyer friend gave me a few years ago, when they used to come to my door 3times every month.


“Look, they have a right to go door to door. You have a right to greet them with a gun. As for me, they used to knock on my door on Sunday (getting me out of bed on after a long Saturday night), I would profess my joy at seeing them. I would instruct them to wait until I got my bible from my bedroom. I'd then go back upstairs and go to back to sleep.”

I used his first idea. Nobody likes other peoples views pushed onto them. The words (under god) taken in the context our forefathers intended shouldn’t offend anyone, taken out of context they offend most everyone) I say leave the words in there!


Its not under Christ its under GOD meaning a higher being not only Jesus Christ, it could mean the devil himself, if the devil was your GOD! Or even Scooby doo, if here was your GOD.

And if ones a non believer in anything, then silly words shouldn’t bother you, one would think.
buffallo Offline
#90 Posted: Tue, Oct 21 2003, 8:01 AM EST
Joined: 09-25-2003
Posts: 197
Well Put gto..

Ezell
tarheel4lyf Offline
#91 Posted: Tue, Oct 21 2003, 8:26 AM EST
Joined: 09-23-2002
Posts: 2,543
I like to pick my nose.
SteveS Offline
#92 Posted: Tue, Oct 21 2003, 8:33 AM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
yeah, and the rest of us can't tell you how much WE like it when you do that ...
tarheel4lyf Offline
#93 Posted: Tue, Oct 21 2003, 8:42 AM EST
Joined: 09-23-2002
Posts: 2,543
just thought we could use a small break in this thread
usahog Offline
#94 Posted: Tue, Oct 21 2003, 8:47 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
God Bless Ya'll!!!!

Hog
Steve*R Offline
#95 Posted: Tue, Oct 21 2003, 9:07 AM EST
Joined: 07-23-2001
Posts: 1,858
65gtoman, while I don't question the veracity of your lawyer friend's statement to you, regarding answering the door with a gun, when you know you are not in a situation of imminent danger. I will tell you with decades of legal experience behind me, answering your door, gun-in-hand, when you know the people at the door are Jehovah's Witnesses, and present no threat to you, is a criminal assault. Don't even think about doing it.

If your lawyer friend were reported to your state bar association for giving you that advice, he'd be subject to censure and possible suspension or disbarment proceeedings.
Steve*R Offline
#96 Posted: Tue, Oct 21 2003, 9:21 AM EST
Joined: 07-23-2001
Posts: 1,858
Danielg: If you examine both the Old and New Testaments you will find numerous references to the physical body of man being the image and vessel of God on earth. We all know that smoking, yes, even our beloved cigars, is not a healthful act. We participate in this forum, knowing full well, that our actions encourage behavior(smoking) which, by its nature, desanctifies the human body, God's vessel.

So, yes, I do believe to "witness" for your faith in a cigar forum demeans you and your faith.

And back to the original question: I still believe that the Supreme Court has no choice but to strike the words "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance.
65gtoman Offline
#97 Posted: Tue, Oct 21 2003, 9:25 AM EST
Joined: 06-12-2003
Posts: 858
How does one know if it’s the Jehovah's Witnesses? I have 4 different no trespassing signs on my land before even getting to my door, and on my door is a no soliciting sign, so therefore anyone the knocks on my door that I do not know, and is not wearing a uniform, I answer my door with gun in hand. That’s my right, and any lawyer will tell you that.

ps: he’s also a leading civil rights attorneys in the USA. But I will not be a name dropper lol (this was just in a conversion that came up one day, (only between him and me)

Right to Keep and Bear Arms..

You can answer the door with a gun in your hand, if you do not know who’s at your door. Call your local police up ask them.

65gtoman Offline
#98 Posted: Tue, Oct 21 2003, 9:30 AM EST
Joined: 06-12-2003
Posts: 858
How does one know if it’s the Jehovah's Witnesses, not some one that’s going to do me bodily harm?

I wanted to say
Steve*R Offline
#99 Posted: Tue, Oct 21 2003, 9:36 AM EST
Joined: 07-23-2001
Posts: 1,858
65gtoman: You wrote this yourself:

"Jehovah witness>? I would like to give you all some advice my lawyer friend gave me a few years ago, when they used to come to my door 3times every month.“Look, they have a right to go door to door. You have a right to greet them with a gun. As for me, they used to knock on my door on Sunday..........

You've already established in your post that you knew they were Jehovah's Witnesses.
tarheel4lyf Offline
#100 Posted: Tue, Oct 21 2003, 9:37 AM EST
Joined: 09-23-2002
Posts: 2,543
Anarchy!!!! Anarchy!!!!!!
Users browsing this topic
Guest
3 Pages<123>
Back to Top