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Trade Gone Bad
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patman Offline
#1 Posted: Sat, Jan 24 2004, 5:44 PM EST
Joined: 12-22-2003
Posts: 262
Ok, Mosta y'all don't really know me but I responded to a guy here 'bout month or so back lookin fer a few ISOMs to trade. I sent a few and a hand full of other stuff and I have not heard back from him and he aint responding to my e-mails.

The deal we struck was this:

I send 2 Monte #2s and a few others and he would send whatever he thought was fair.

Maybe I was a little too nieve seens how this was my first trade and all. BTY I have not traded with anyothers as of yet. Though I am in the Newbie b-day club. and I did ssend KingofSmithville a few on a new PIB (Pay it Backwards) deal.

Those really aint trades though I's just bein nice I guess.

I know that trading is riskey business and all so I aint lookin' fer no handouts 'er nuthin'. I'm just currious as to what can be done to get in contact with this fella?

Any help would be greatly appriciated.

[email protected]

Thanks.
hdking Offline
#2 Posted: Sat, Jan 24 2004, 5:54 PM EST
Joined: 10-12-2003
Posts: 1,155
Pat
i cant say what happened to the other guy, but i would be happy to do a trade with you. anything you looking for.
patman Offline
#3 Posted: Sat, Jan 24 2004, 5:56 PM EST
Joined: 12-22-2003
Posts: 262
Nope, not really. I'm still holding on to that Maximmus that you gave me though. I appriciate it man.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#4 Posted: Sat, Jan 24 2004, 6:48 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
patman

i think you should tell us all what his posting name is. it is extremly rare for someone to get screwed on a trade other then maybe you don't like some of the cigars you get. i have sent cigars to a bunch of people and can't remember anyone not completing their end of the bargin. sometimes the guys are a little slow, and sometimes i am a little slow.

i think you should mention his poster name for all our protections.

RICKAMAVEN@
HOTMAIL.
COM
usahog Offline
#5 Posted: Sat, Jan 24 2004, 6:52 PM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Well this is why I don't get into box passes or many Trades much.. I'd rather Bomb the **** outa somebody (especially new folks) and leave it at that... corse last time I did a trade with someone it took myself months to send off the package.. not that I didn't have it.. other things going on here on the homefront and finally getting out to the post office.. just from keeping an eye on the boards though.. there is not many if any I WOULDN'T hesitate to trade with... usually there is a better class of people here from when I first joined and CBid Forums and others can keep people on the up and up...

Sorry to hear about your trade.. and Welcome Aboard Pat!!!!

Hog
CWFoster Offline
#6 Posted: Sat, Jan 24 2004, 7:05 PM EST
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
Hey Patman, we gotta hook up pretty soon anyway to get together on fudge! Why dont we make it sooner than later and I could share some of my recent good fortune with you. Rickamaven sent me some interesting, tasty gars, and I got some from Jazzman, that were quite frankly better than I would have expected either from the name (Ras Tafaris) or from his description (Yard gars) I been doing pretty good due to the generosity of some mighty fine BOTL! And if I can help my Bro get the bad taste out of his mouth, I'd like to!
gorob23 Offline
#7 Posted: Sat, Jan 24 2004, 7:19 PM EST
Joined: 05-11-2003
Posts: 2,323
Patman Ya gotta help us out. Maybe it was a misunderstanding maybe it was a trade gone bad. I have meet too many good one's here to know whoit could be with out your help. Rob
Liz62803 Offline
#8 Posted: Sat, Jan 24 2004, 7:51 PM EST
Joined: 01-21-2004
Posts: 2,921
maybe there is a reasonable explanation for their tardiness, real life has the tendency to give someone CRS (can't remember sh*t) or maybe they went out of town and forgot - haven't checked their email or whatever. I'm not making excuses for anyone, but benefit of the doubt - innocent till proven guilty (yes too much court tv and crime and criminals message groups I know) maybe seeing their name in print in regards to a trade gone bad will jog their memory or make them see the errors of their ways, but by no means should you give up trading - just maybe if this has been a trade gone bad - be more selective - if you read the boards you can tell who is the good traders and like Clive said - he hasn't had a bad trade yet - so hope things go well for you in the future :-)
patman Offline
#9 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 3:06 AM EST
Joined: 12-22-2003
Posts: 262
I actually posted this in hopes oh him reading this and thinkin that would give his memory a nudge if ya know what I mean. I will wait for a few days before I mention his name to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I will say that he has not posted on the board since he received my cigars. I e-mailed him to see what the deal was and he seemed VERY pleased with the sticks I sent him. That was the last contact we have had. I have e-mailed him since then and he has not responded. Like I said by Wednesday or so I'll be putting his name and e-mail out there for all to see. Until then I can only hope that his memory or conscience wakes up...


cruiser Offline
#10 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 4:38 AM EST
Joined: 06-15-2001
Posts: 739
I got stiffed from a guy name SA (STEVE ALLEN)I trustet and went out purchased some Pleiades from a store 20miles away and got those gars for half price send it to him the first time he e-mailed me and said I send the check and it must been loost, than he said I checked the check did not clear so He send me another one which I never received either and he does not answer his e-mail anymore. Loos $ 68.00 plus a hour drive.
sketcha Offline
#11 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 4:41 AM EST
Joined: 03-26-2003
Posts: 3,238
I have seen traders on this site struck with illness, family emergencies and the like which puts them in a position unable to respond for a time. This may be one of those. Who knows?
Slimboli Offline
#12 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 5:29 AM EST
Joined: 07-09-2000
Posts: 16,139
sketcha --- I don't mean to sound cold or anything ... but that is not really an excuse.

Bottom line ... if you can't hold up our end of the deal ... then don't get involved in the first place. A sickness or illness in the family shouldn't stop anyone from sending a simple email explanation.

Reputation is EVERTHING, when it comes to trading cigars. After all, you are dealing with (for the most part) someone you don't really know. This can be a costly venture ... and ther ARE a lot of people who will come on these forums (not just CB's) to scam people out of their wares, because most people are very trusting ... and it's an easy target.

It happens more frequently than you may be aware of ... and these people (given ample time to make it right) should be ousted if they don't follow through!
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#13 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 6:42 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
WHO IS THE CULPRIT or the one who might have forgotten.
Slimboli Offline
#14 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 7:12 AM EST
Joined: 07-09-2000
Posts: 16,139
... forgotten Rick?

If you are prone to 'forgetting' something that you have going on with someone ...

... they shouldn't be trading in the first place.

I stand firm on this ... and is the main reason that I will not trade with anyone that I haven't traded with before, or heard 'good trader' comments about from others.

It's just not worth the 'let down' or frustration ... especially if you go into it full of 'good will' ...
Slimboli Offline
#15 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 7:19 AM EST
Joined: 07-09-2000
Posts: 16,139
Like usahog said, I don't mind 'bombing' someone ... because I don't expect anything in return and I get a great deal of personal satisfaction from it. That way I don't set myself up for disappointment.

If they return the gesture ... that shows me a great deal about the character of that individual. If they don't ... my opinion of them has not changed, because I didn't expect anything from them.
chipslave Offline
#16 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 7:20 AM EST
Joined: 06-19-2003
Posts: 3,145
I totally agree with Slim on this... If anyone cares. :)
chipslave Offline
#17 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 7:25 AM EST
Joined: 06-19-2003
Posts: 3,145
By the way Slim... Haven't had the pleasure of trading with you yet. Hope that changes in the near future ;)
CWFoster Offline
#18 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 8:06 AM EST
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
I agree with Slim for two reasons. First, as new as I am to this hobby, I'm alot more likely to get something back that's new, and everybody I've met so far on here has pretty good taste. Second, I don't yet have that much but what I've been gifted, and I like to honor a gift by trying it if someone thought I'd like it, (I'm working on the trading stock though!) and I'd rather send what I have to send, and let them decide what they think it's worth. That way, I don't get a bum rep based on my inexperience.
Charlie Offline
#19 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 8:19 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
CWF, good point of view, a trade is from the heart as is a bombing!

Charlie
Cavallo Offline
#20 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 9:19 AM EST
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
what CWF said. bingo.

and slim said, "A sickness or illness in the family shouldn't stop anyone from sending a simple email explanation." he also pointed out that if you're prone to forgetting, you shouldn't be trading.

here's my personal take: i have major health issues. i AM prone to forgetting (thanks to the meds). but thankfully i have a NOTEBOOK and a PEN and can write down who sent me what, what trades i have agreed to and any other info that is needed. it's not too much effort to just WRITE IT DOWN.

secondly, while i may have to jot down reminders, i do have a very, very strong memory in a way -- i never, ever, ever forget a good deed done to me (or a slight, for that matter, though i try to let go of those rather than hold on to negativity).

i might not be able to turn right around and bomb someone back who has gifted me with cigars, but i will "get even" as soon as i can. and in the meantime, i will give all the props i can give to the guys who have shown such generosity and kindness.

again, that's not too much effort, no matter how i'm feeling physically. and even if i don't have a dime to use for postage, it doesn't cost a penny to jump on here and say a good word about a brother (or sister) so everyone knows "hey, this is a great B/SOTL."

then when i'm able to do more, i can do more -- send him some sticks, a cd, whatever.

yes, "$*it happens," but i find that there is not much of an excuse for not at least staying in communication.
i've still not been able to write out all the emails i want, but i can post a dang message here saying "this is what's going on guys; i've not forgotten."
CWFoster Offline
#21 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 9:19 AM EST
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
BTW, there are a few people on here I owe a couple of gars to to cover postage, on some gifts, and a few gratitude bombs I feel the need to send. I blew up my budget on the auctions this payday, and will catch up on the mail come the first. I've emailed the people in question, but want to make sure no one thinks I forgot!
penzt8 Offline
#22 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 9:46 AM EST
Joined: 06-05-2000
Posts: 1,771
Pat,

you have his name and address so file a complaint with the post office. Basically you have a case of mail fraud which I believe is a federal offense. You have correspondence between yourself and the other individual that laid out the terms of the trade. It's no different that someone making a purchase via the mail and then not sending the check. If it was done intentionally, then it's fraud.
ajeroth Offline
#23 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 10:17 AM EST
Joined: 07-17-2003
Posts: 1,000
Only one problem with that.... The way I understand it your not supposed to send cigars through the mail. I know we all do. But if you told the postal clerk what was in the box theres a good chance they wouldn't accept it. Am I wrong on this one?

ajeroth
gorob23 Offline
#24 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 10:39 AM EST
Joined: 05-11-2003
Posts: 2,323
I just thought I would toss my .02 worth here.

Send cigars thru the mail mmm I will let someone else handle that one, can you say CBID :)

I JUST now figured out I need to keep better track of the gifts sent my way. So I started to attach a little label that I used for the box pass with the persons name on the smoke. I try and respond to the folks that sent me a gift AND I try and NEVER give away a gift smoke that I haven't tried. I figure "you" were nice enough to send it to me I should try it at least. As far as getting back at someone I tried that with fbcoach and he made me feel like " Cool Hand Luke" in the fight scene with George Kennedy. And DMV I still have to get to MDR to hear that cd and fire up that Full Sail. But I said that's where I will smoke it and that is how it shall be!

Lets just see where this one ends up.
patman Offline
#25 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 10:43 AM EST
Joined: 12-22-2003
Posts: 262
Honestly I am not looking to kill this guy or see him face federal charges. I do however want my two Cuban Monte #2s back considering I gave him 2 of 4 that I had and the other 6 good cigars that I gave him just to be nice. Ither that or a fair amount of great sticks to compensate and even out the trade. Which is all that I was looking for to begin with.



I will not file charges. His guilt is enough for me. As for the sticks. Well, I will be willing to trade with someone else. No regrets about the trade. It just sucks that I got burnt on my first trade.
Slimboli Offline
#26 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 11:02 AM EST
Joined: 07-09-2000
Posts: 16,139
... and it should not have happpened, patman ... never ... but especially on your first trade.

People who 'stiff' others are not capable of 'guilt' or remorse for doing what they did ...

... unfortuantely ... it's not in their character.
patman Offline
#27 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 11:09 AM EST
Joined: 12-22-2003
Posts: 262
Thnaks man... I think you are probably right...
CWFoster Offline
#28 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 11:38 AM EST
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
I feel for you man! I've been blessed to have only dealt with true BOTL on here!
Liz62803 Offline
#29 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 11:44 AM EST
Joined: 01-21-2004
Posts: 2,921
we sometimes learn our lessons the hard way - unfortunate, but look at it this way, lessons that we have learned the hard way are lessons that we tend to REMEMBER :-) from what I have read and from the experiences that Clive has had - there are MANY great BOTL out here that are awesome to trade with - so am sure you will have a lot better luck with the next trade you do !!!!!
mrtelcom Offline
#30 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 12:11 PM EST
Joined: 03-25-2004
Posts: 2,255
If you don't post his name and address, he will get someone else. Make every effort to contact him first, then out him.
sketcha Offline
#31 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 1:32 PM EST
Joined: 03-26-2003
Posts: 3,238
I understand Slim. However, I recall a certain BOTL going in for an emergency Quad bypass if memory serves. I don't think they brought him a laptop to the operating or recovery room.

When he regained his coherency many days later, he posted several apologies here and promises to catch up and I'm sure that he did.

I'm not excusing anyone and I don't know what length of time we're talking about here, but sometimes, however rare things happen that are out of our control.

Now on the flip side. If this guy is a thief, then we should sting him up by his balls and parade him through town. I, myself was very leary in the beginning to trade with anyone without getting to know them first for this reason. Now I have gained a good level of comfort with many folks here and am considering it.

JM $.02
johnfs Offline
#32 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 1:38 PM EST
Joined: 01-01-2003
Posts: 2,992
Patman I've looked at all your posts and I see that you have only been posting for this past month.
jazzman Offline
#33 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 1:44 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2000
Posts: 1,012
Meaning what?
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#34 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 2:00 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
sketcha

i'm sure that was me and i did send out the cigars i owed, not trades, but the football pool.
patman Offline
#35 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 4:35 PM EST
Joined: 12-22-2003
Posts: 262
Johnfs,

Pardon my ignorance but what is the point in your post?

Needless to say, you are correct. I have only been on this site for about a month. I noticed a post that was titled ISOM or seaking ISOM or something along those lines. Anyway, I replied and he e-mailed his home address and there it was. I sent the box of goodies and my backside has been killing me ever since.

So, like I said its been a month since I sent the cigars and I wand him to hold up his end of the bargin.

Is this a problem or am I wrong here in some way?
usahog Offline
#36 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 5:27 PM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
patman... what I think john was getting at is you state that this was a trade with someone on here.. yet you have only been here for a month or so.. and then you state that it was a trade seeking ISOM or ISOM.. yet unless you go by a different username.. doing a Search / patman /all messages nothing comes up... but of course you come up on threads where patman username is not listed.. one thing about Ol'Cbid... I think they log all messages by the users puter tag ID rather than their name...

So please like others have asked you.. point out this thread so we all can know who and what this bad trader is all about so no one else gets burned!!!!

and please help me get rid of this Gut feeling, you came onto posting this thread because of possible bitterness on other events on this forum???

I personally would not use my Morgage payment to buy Cigars to make someone feel better about me and my dealings... well personally I wouldn't get involved in a deal unless I had the product already in my grasps to square off the deal...

but thats just me...

please do pull up this thread for all of us.. because I cannot seem to locate it.. and I can go back to threads of CBids first postings...

Thanks
Hog
Cigarick Offline
#37 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 5:28 PM EST
Joined: 07-28-2002
Posts: 3,078
Post his address. Maybe he needs to hear the finer points of cigar trading, rather than just read them.
patman Offline
#38 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 6:20 PM EST
Joined: 12-22-2003
Posts: 262
Hog,

First of all I really don’t have any bitter feelings about anyone. Not even the guy that stiffed me on our trade.

Second of all I do plan to post his name and address after Wednesday to see if he is going to come through or not.

As for my Mortgage payment, I would ask that you take a step back here for a moment. I made a statement (On a completely different thread) that was supposed to be humorous and you are manipulating it to be negative and pointed. This is not me and does not reflect the person that I am. If you knew me you would know that I say what I feel and harbor little or no resentment even when others feel that its warranted.


The trader in question? I have stated that he is not trading on the boards any more and if I see him you can be rest assured that I would take the opportunity to make my request known. So I don't feel that there is any real concern for someone getting burnt. If there were I would speak up sooner.


Lastly, As for your gut feelings and the post you are trying to locate. Your feelings regardless of their origination are not my concern. However I must say that I cant even find the thread it was on but I will be seeking advice as soon as Wednesday rolls around if I’m still light the sticks I was promised.

If I have offended you then I do apologize, however don’t assume that you really know, or should I say don’t verbalize your assumptions publicly without asking the individual or individuals involved to verify your thoughts. This is common courtesy especially in an environment such as a forum as we do not have the benefit of nonverbal communications. Without this common courtesy insults can multiply quickly and accusations will surly fly. This is a great place and I would hate to see that happen.

Again, I am not angry or offended. I am just speaking my mind, so there is no need to try and read it. Typically, I am an open book and anything goes.

Patman
bloody spaniard Offline
#39 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 6:21 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Patman, there's an old saying that a man's word is the greatest gift that he can give to HIMSELF. This fellow's behavior may be pathological (knows the difference between right vs. wrong but chooses to ignore it, such as a Slick Willy), but you may want to send him a final e-mail before you post him.

There's also a "scumbags and bad traders" page on: members.cox.net/ormazd/scumbagpage.htm. Good luck.
patman Offline
#40 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 6:25 PM EST
Joined: 12-22-2003
Posts: 262
Right on. I have e-mailed him twice in the last week and no responce as of yet. I figure if he aint checked his e-mail by then or stopped by c-bid to check the boards, then I'm gonna out him.
puskarich Offline
#41 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 6:59 PM EST
Joined: 01-04-2003
Posts: 2,143
I hope it works out for you, patman. It is a shame that some people have trouble following through on their end of the deal. Good luck.
usahog Offline
#42 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 7:03 PM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Patman.. sorry i posted my concerns here for all to see.. it was an observation I seen here and still puzzled that you would not render the information so many had asked for over and over because of the tight nit bonds of trading and all with many folks here on CBid... a place I do call home...

as for what I said I pretty much speak my feelings verbaly or in type such as here.. and again I personally seen some things here that do not add up... as I am sure John also tried to point out.. but for this thread I am done with adding to or questioning anything further...

no bitterness would have prevented this thread to begin with... but the one thread I was refering to yes I must have read it wrong because of that I appologize...

good luck in your quest for your loss's

Hog
choner Offline
#43 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 10:11 PM EST
Joined: 02-04-2003
Posts: 876
Sorry to hear about what happened.

Why don't you just do what Rick has been trying to get, and tell us his name and his e-mail. Maybe one of us knows him and can clarify things up. If we don't know him, then its good for all of us to know who not to trade with.

choner
choner Offline
#44 Posted: Sun, Jan 25 2004, 10:19 PM EST
Joined: 02-04-2003
Posts: 876
http://www.cigarbid.com/...geDisplay=0000000018049

Patman, I think the person you are looking for has posted recently. I hope this gets settled quickly.

choner

patman Offline
#45 Posted: Mon, Jan 26 2004, 12:47 AM EST
Joined: 12-22-2003
Posts: 262
Why is everyone having such a difficult time with me giving this guy the benefit of the doubt? If i were to out this guy and he really was just too busy to get back to me I would feel bad and I would be ruining this guys reputation. It amazing that while some were seeming to doubt that this transaction even existed others take it upon them selves to investigate and intervene and mediate.

I understand your concern about protecting a friend and all. I even respect it. However, I did not want to draw negative attention to him until i was convinced that this is warranted. The whole reason for my post was to see if there were other forms of communication that were available so I don’t make the mistake of outing someone unnecessarily.


Cavallo Offline
#46 Posted: Mon, Jan 26 2004, 12:49 AM EST
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
and hopefully w/o stepping on any toes, i DID see a message posted by patman directed to the person in the post choner mentioned. in that post, patman stated the concerns in this thread -- patman sent sticks and stated that he was expecting a return that he had not yet received.

so anyone skittish about who the "bad guy" is can find out easily now.

from the post choner mentioned, the guy posted on 23 January and said that things at "the restaurant" had been busy lately.

that said, it could just be a tardy trade.

THAT said, it doesn't take but a minute to post a message here (or email) saying, "i'm going to be late."

*thinks*

damn. and my wife's been trying to get that last point through to me (re: calling if i'll be late, gone longer, etc.) for a year now. LOL
Cavallo Offline
#47 Posted: Mon, Jan 26 2004, 12:54 AM EST
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
patman: i'm sure that if this IS just a case of poor communication, that will be made known. BOTLs are a mighty forgiving group when it's warranted. if there's been no harm, then there's no foul, and no one's name is smeared. end of story.

secondly, if you DO receive your due, i'm sure that you'll do the right thing by the guy and post to that effect, too.

sketcha: i'm glad that you're feeling more comfortable about trading with folks on here. if you have any doubts, though, ask around. if you're not comfy doing that, then do a search for the person's username and "trade" as keywords.

i think it does everyone a LOT of good to post when you have participated in good trades with someone. i'm very grateful to the BOTLs w/whom i've traded and who have posted positive comments about me. i try to do the same, without fail.

i'm new. they took a chance on me. the least i can do in return is help keep their name sterling and let others know, "this is a good guy. trade with him without reservation."

anyway, sketcha, just some ideas about finding out who is trustworthy for trades.
chipslave Offline
#48 Posted: Mon, Jan 26 2004, 3:28 AM EST
Joined: 06-19-2003
Posts: 3,145
He doesn't seem too busy to not be posting on that other site (CW)... Goes by the name Chef Richard.
patman Offline
#49 Posted: Mon, Jan 26 2004, 3:32 AM EST
Joined: 12-22-2003
Posts: 262
What other site?
patman Offline
#50 Posted: Mon, Jan 26 2004, 4:06 AM EST
Joined: 12-22-2003
Posts: 262
It doesn’t matter...

I just read on another thread that he will be sending the cigars today. This is why I was not willing to call him out just yet.

I cant believe the assumptions and accusations that flew over this. I must say that I'm kinda disappointed in a few of the brothers here. I am not angry just saddened by the sheer... heck I don’t know what to call it. Lack of trust or skepticism or whatever. So willing to defend something with out understanding the whole situation.

I feel like this ended on a positive note.

Blueeyes came through and he is still known as a good trader.

I got my sticks coming

And it is proven that people are truly honest and want to do the right thing.

Not a great trade but a goon one none-the-less.

Patman
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