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Cav,

I'll research a little before I post because I can't comment on the crux of your statement without looking into it. The economy was down for two years (largely due to a pre-Bush slump and 09/11) but is now in the largest growth we've seen in twenty some odd years. My shop is established and remains steady in good economys and bad.

My tax bill was significantly less than under Clinton, but to be honest, the Flower Shop is only one of my businesses. I also own three duplex rentals. My wife is a Vice-president of a large insurane company and I also work as a field insurance premium auditor... so our combined income puts us in a bracket where we were helped substantially.

A question for you. If a couple makes $35,000 and through tax credit and deductions pays no taxes, how do you give them tax relief?? Are you in favor of unearned tax rebates (aka entitlements)? If so, then we're really talking apples and oranges. My conservative way of thinking leads me to believe that if a person pays no taxes at all, then they aren't entitled to a reduction in taxes that they've never paid.

Thom... still waiting for your response. I'm just an ole country boy from Louisiana. I'm easy going and would really like to hear your input and response.

How has Bush's economic plan been working out? Just a question... Republicans have had control of the Senate, Congress and the Supreme Court for four years... How is their plan working... lmao!!!

Zero net jobs in nearly four years is my favorite FACT!

You guys are hilarious. LMAO indeed. Bush inherited a sluggish and slowing economy which was set back even further by the horrendous socio and economic impact of 9/11. Despite these things, the economy has rebouned and jobs growth is returning and will likely be positive for the Bush first term if things stay on course.

You guys can keep bashing Bush but he wasn't in charge when the guys who carried out those cowardly attacks were planning and implementing the plot. That guy would have been Clinton who failed miserbly ever to take any decisive action against Al Qaeda or terrorsim in general. Now we have the newest Democratic candidate desperate for advice on how to salvage his campaign. And who does he turn to for advice and help... err... umm.. that would be Clinton.

ROFL at you guys.

Cheers,

grond

Sorry guys....

That would be a triple post caused by a computer malfunction. Maybe a moderator can delete the other two. My apologies.

Cheers,

grond

grond: great posts, btw. no, i wasn't expecting folks to take my "i know other small biz owners" comment as fact -- that was in answer to hog's assertion that we should take your individual case ("hands on experience") to be THE example to follow. and no offense, but you are one of many small business owners -- and your other business dealings in real estate and insurance makes yours an a-typical case at that (unless you are SOLELY referring to your income from the shop alone). anyway, just so's you know, i DO appreciate your input here. :)

careful, though, about how we talk about the economy. i tend to listen to economists about it, and they have been telling us all along not to take "the numbers" at face value. you know the old twain quote about lies, damned lies and statistics. well, when bush takes fast food restaurant jobs and re-classifies them as "manufacturing" instead of "service sector," then it's going to look like the manufacturing biz is booming, when in fact it is not.

most recently, i read a piece about how the bush admin has been reporting falsely high deficit #'s and will, in october, release the real numbers -- making it look as though the deficit has been lowered when, in fact, it has not just remain unchanged but has actually WORSENED.

i'm aching too much now to go dig up a bunch of web sites, but that's what i've been reading from associated press stories and the latter was, i think, from msn's slate.

btw, hog -- i think rather screwed the pooch (in answer to your question). i don't think the papers are genuine after waiting for a bunch more eyes to get on them. the consensus is generally that they're fake. sucks to be dan! lol

hog: surely you realize that there is more to construction and development than what you see in your own neighborhood. wilmington is currently booming in construction, too -- condos to house the relatively wealthy folks moving from up north to retire mostly. the local economy, however, remains stagnant with a high unemployment rate across the board.

i invite you to read this:

In February, the Bush administration proposed reclassifying employees of fast-food restaurants as manufacturing workers. The idea appeared in the Economic Report of the President, which questioned the inclusion of fast-food restaurants in the service sector and suggested reclassifying such businesses as manufacturers. The report said that the current system for classifying jobs "is not straightforward ... When a fast-food restaurant sells a hamburger, for example, is it providing a 'service' or is it combining inputs to 'manufacture' a product?" David Huether, the chief economist for the National Association of Manufacturers, said that expanding the definition of "manufacturing" would produce statistics showing more jobs in that sector, WHICH HAS BEEN IN DECLINE.

(Source: David Johnston, "In the New Economics: Fast-Food Factories?" New York Times, February 20, 2004. See article at: independent-media.tv.)

Cav, I have read this before... not sure which link it was on... but to push this one instance and stand steadfast on it does what??

Lets take the making of a Hamberger... Ok you have empolyed the person who takes the order.. you have employed the person who does the cooking of that Hamberger... you also have a Manager who sets the schedules for these employee's and thus you have your Happy Meal... behind the scenes is what? you have the Manufatcurer (Employee's who maintain the assembly line and their supervision)of these Hambergers to which come frozen from a warehouse (warehouse workers who get the orders and shipments out to these Chain fast food resturants, plus their supervision) then you have the Truck Dirvers and companys who haul this Manufactured goods to their Locations...

and to through out Wealthy people moving up north who are building condos to house mostly retirement is not an arguement... these people still give to the economy and they also are producing jobs with spending to build in these locations... you are trying to spin something that isn't there... the gloom and doom economists could not actually give you an accurate date we may fall into a recession... they want to dwell on the fact that it's going to happen... they are less reliable then a weather person....

My Dad always told me, You want to make money and feed your family... stick with Construction... because as long as people are going to be F*ckin theirs going to be some building going on!!!!


BTW have you downloaded and read Kerry/Edwards Plan for America yet??

Hog

Thom,

The point I was trying to make was that I have to HIRE people to qualify. Hiring someone costs more money than the tax break I'm getting. I would rather hire someone because I need them... because the economy is booming. A straight tax break to people who pay taxes puts more money in their hands to spend. More money in their hands to spends means more money will spent... which means the economy will continue to grow.

Increasing taxes has the opposite effect, except for the select few on whom the governments bestows their contracts and of course it increases the spending on administrative/non-productive clerical and compliance staff which does nothing for the economy.

Cheers,

grond