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rfenst Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,473
Scanners and pat-downs upset airline passengers.

No kidding.

However, I peronally have no problem with a whole body scan, provided the x-ray dose for my frequency of travel, is indeed safe. The alternative choice of being "professionally" groped has no appeal to me. On the otherhand, pilots and stewardess fly so frequently, exposure to cumulative x-rayel could indeed pose a health risk. Something may need to be figured out for them.

Anyhow, airline travel is not, in my opinion, a right the state has to provide for. Perhaps each individual airline could make the scan a non-negotiable, contractual pre-condition to boarding any flight. If the passenger won't permit the scan and refuses the alternative pat-down, screw them. No ticket refund either!

Now, with the potential risk of x-ray, why aren't they using technology similar to MRI, which has not been shown to be dangerous?

Discuss...
Northsidepk Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-22-2010
Posts: 2,263
IMHO the only RIGHT the state should provide is POST and DEFENSE.
wheelrite Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
As old and ugly as the Stewardess Brigade has become I don't think a few extra gamma rays will make much difference...
rfenst Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,473
wheelrite wrote:
As old and ugly as the Stewardess Brigade has become I don't think a few extra gamma rays will make much difference...




Aren't gamma rays what turned Dr. Bruce Banner in the Incredible Hulk?
Sure don't need any of that knd of stuff going on mid-flight, do we?
wheelrite Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
rfenst wrote:
Aren't gamma rays what turned Dr. Bruce Banner in the Incredible Hulk?
Sure don't need any of that knd of stuff going on mid-flight, do we?



most of the Stewardess' look like a geriatric version of Rosie Odonnell
SteveS Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
wheelrite wrote:
most of the Stewardess' look like a geriatric version of Rosie Odonnell


it doesn't get much worse than that ...
ZRX1200 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,682
Alex Jones can be kooky, but I agree with him on this. Unproven safety and privacy/legal issues with the scan. I.e what about young folks being "targeted" for physical attributes or TSA predisposal to perversion.
And the grope down is something if you weren't a TSA agent would get you arrested.
And this is all done by a govt. That refuses to secure our borders. No thanks, I won't be flying.
TMCTLT Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
I most certainly have a problem with the government and the airline industries refusal to profile when EVERYONE knows which race of people on the whole pull hi-jackings!!!! I flew a number of years back to Seatle from Detroit, had already made it through the metal detector bags passed thru scanner fine. Then I was asked to step back thru and take off my shoes and put them on conveyer. Now they clearly profiled me for some reason, I think it's a Damn shame that because we've become so "PC" that everyone's rights are waved to keep the OBVIOUS ones from being Hasseled!! It's a chicken- chit attitude that's goona cost us in the long run!!! IMHO
drrjr2 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 11-08-2010
Posts: 91
I have hip replacements in both hips , every since 9/11 I get singled out for extra attention , its a fact of flying ,that first two years after 9/11 I was strip searched 3 times at the airport even though I carry a card stating I have the after market parts , I feel if you don't want this to happen drive to your destination ,I believe the enhanced security is worth it ,as far as the MRI thing that won't work for everyone , I can't have one because of the metal in my hip and thigh , those things will pull any metal in your body right out , also my step son works for a company that does maintance on MRI machines and I've seen pictures where it has pulled someones ring off thier finger along with the skin because the ring was so tight
DrMaddVibe Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,633
The part that bothers me the most about this story is that he declined. Left the line and went back to the ticket counter. He was given a refund for a non-refundable ticket and then was dragged back for non-compliance.

THAT is an outrage.

We're targeting old ladies and babies while middle easterners can smuggle PETN in the underwear onto planes?

WTF!Brick wall
rfenst Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,473
TMCTLT wrote:
... Then I was asked to step back thru and take off my shoes and put them on conveyer. Now they clearly profiled me for some reason....



No offense intended, but perhaps the sole reason you were asked to return and take your shoes off was that you simply failed to take them off for scanning in the first place.



Does anyone have any statute or court casde that says or stands for the proposition that airline travel is a legal right?Think
HockeyDad Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,213
rfenst wrote:
No offense intended, but perhaps the sole reason you were asked to return and take your shoes off was that you simply failed to take them off for scanning in the first place.



Does anyone have any statute or court casde that says or stands for the proposition that airline travel is a legal right?Think



It is not a legal right but it vital to business and our nation's economy. We're not going back to horse and buggy.
HockeyDad Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,213
The solution is simple:

1. Not every security lane has one of the new TSA-porn.com machines because the process would be too slow.
2. Go to a line with just standard metal detectors.
3. Hide your **** on some old black lady's wheelchair.
4. Feign outrage if they stop her and point out that TSA are ****tards.

If this is too complicated, just follow the Muslims.......they've figured this out a long time ago.
rfenst Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,473
HockeyDad wrote:
It is not a legal right but it vital to business and our nation's economy. We're not going back to horse and buggy.



Of course arline travel is important to business and the nations economy, but so too is flight passenger safety. Hypothetically, what if passengers refused or cut back on flight travel, including business travel, out of safety fear- kind of like what happened after 9/11, but on a smaller scale? That would certainly be much worse for busines and the economy than denying boarding to those who refuse to be searched, wouldn't it?
ZRX1200 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,682
^ right.....then the Feds can take over the airlines too.......

Too big to fail.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,633
rfenst wrote:
Of course arline travel is important to business and the nations economy, but so too is flight passenger safety. Hypothetically, what if passengers refused or cut back on flight travel, including business travel, out of safety fear- kind of like what happened after 9/11, but on a smaller scale? That would certainly be much worse for busines and the economy than denying boarding to those who refuse to be searched, wouldn't it?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wR3qDP1ZJk

Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4O_G1Ur0Nc

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TopfX6-YLkI

Part 3


Part 3 is really what you want, but it's all good!

Here's a thought...give EVERYBODY guns on a plane. You want to get on a plane at least you know what you're getting into. Clothed...naked...work out the details however you need it to go. At least you'd know if some muslim pulled out a box cutter he was going to get shot by everyone on the plane.
rfenst Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,473
^

#3 wouldn't work.


DrafterX Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,601
I was checking this young beautiful blonde babe going thru security once not long ago... she was a ahead of me a bit... those sick bassards singled her out and made her jump around in the body scanner thing... she obviously was not a threat... and how many TSA dudes is it suppose to take to watch the monitor..??
chiefburg Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 01-31-2005
Posts: 7,384
rfenst wrote:
Of course arline travel is important to business and the nations economy, but so too is flight passenger safety. Hypothetically, what if passengers refused or cut back on flight travel, including business travel, out of safety fear- kind of like what happened after 9/11, but on a smaller scale? That would certainly be much worse for busines and the economy than denying boarding to those who refuse to be searched, wouldn't it?


Robert,

I would like to boycott the airlines as a show of force and to put pressure back on the government. I still choose to fly for two reasons: 1) The Navy makes me fly at times, and 2) Flying just saves so much time. I'll admit that I'm hooked and not sure what the easy way out is.

I've been stopped for special screening while in my Navy uniform. I'm a 52 year old white male in my Navy uniform with all the proper ID (holographs, etc), and I still get pulled aside. I think I made the comment to the TSA guy "For real?" He then got an attitude and asked sternly if I had a problem! I let it go because I'm sure they would have delayed me and made my life miserable when they knew full well that I wasn't a terrorist nor a threat to the airlines. I've seen old ladies in wheelchairs get special screening. I've mentally handicapped people get special screening. I've seen crippled 80 year olds get special screening. What we are using is intrusive and, to our knowledge, hasn't really prevented any terrorist attacks. Common sense must be inserted into this somewhere.

I say we get the government out of this (with the exception of international flights where immigration is an issue) and let the airlines develop and impose their own systems. I'm all for profiling as well. Profiling has been used for over 100 years and it works (for the most part). Inconveniencing millions of people daily when we are looking for Arab terrorists is insane and costing the taxpayers billions!
TMCTLT Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
rfenst wrote:
No offense intended, but perhaps the sole reason you were asked to return and take your shoes off was that you simply failed to take them off for scanning in the first place.



Does anyone have any statute or court casde that says or stands for the proposition that airline travel is a legal right?Think



Robert, Also no offense intended. But this was before it became mandatory for all to take off your shoes, I was singled out for some F'n reason unknown to me!!!! I am sorry that those like yourself cannot wrap your mind around PROFILING those who do these kinds of things vs. making the entire citizenry of OUR country go through this unnecessary bull****. The PC attitude of many in this country is exactly what these terrorists are looking for..................
Nice of you all with this attitude to help them out.

On a lighter note, I saw a funny today that actually seemed like a great idea to me. Instead of a scanner to look everyone over, how about one that as the scanner finds a bomb on a passenger it simply detonates it right there. Threat REMOVED..... I like it !!!!!
fishinguitarman Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,154
They ALWAYS think I'm smuggling something in the front of my pants!
TMCTLT Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
^^^ And then they find that lrg baking potato and they find they were right!!!!!!!! Sorry Ray couldn't hep maself...........

Veggie terror
wtjvj Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 09-26-2006
Posts: 9,973
fishinguitarman wrote:
They ALWAYS think I'm smuggling something in the front of my pants!


probably that small brain your father warned you about....



you old buzzard.
fishinguitarman Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,154
BASTIDS!
TrishS@CigarBid Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 06-13-2001
Posts: 3,172
chiefburg wrote:
I've seen old ladies in wheelchairs get special screening. I've mentally handicapped people get special screening. I've seen crippled 80 year olds get special screening. What we are using is intrusive and, to our knowledge, hasn't really prevented any terrorist attacks. Common sense must be inserted into this somewhere.



My sister has artificial hips and knees due to juvenile RA. She can't lift her arms. When we traveled to Alaska this past May, she was put through the special screening. Huh One look at my sister will tell you she's not a threat of any kind but there she was, standing in front of God and country, getting scanned and then patted down. She's accepted it but it really made my blood boil. Cursing She hasn't dealt with enough nonsense in her lifetime to be humiliated like that???

I will say the TSA at our local airport did look embarressed and apologetic for having to do it.

I'm not really a fan of profiling, but there are some things that require a bit of 'common' sense. d'oh!
wheelrite Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
I touch my junk regularly...
chiefburg Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 01-31-2005
Posts: 7,384
TrishS@CigarBid wrote:
My sister has artificial hips and knees due to juvenile RA. She can't lift her arms. When we traveled to Alaska this past May, she was put through the special screening. Huh One look at my sister will tell you she's not a threat of any kind but there she was, standing in front of God and country, getting scanned and then patted down. She's accepted it but it really made my blood boil. Cursing She hasn't dealt with enough nonsense in her lifetime to be humiliated like that???

I will say the TSA at our local airport did look embarressed and apologetic for having to do it.

I'm not really a fan of profiling, but there are some things that require a bit of 'common' sense. d'oh!

Trish: I'll let you have some of my blood pressure medicine......I have plenty for when I have to fly....
DadZilla3 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2009
Posts: 4,633
TMCTLT wrote:
I most certainly have a problem with the government and the airline industries refusal to profile when EVERYONE knows which race of people on the whole pull hi-jackings!!!!


Political correctness: we have to pretend that we're not looking for the people we're looking for.
wheelrite Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
If you don't wanna get groped,wear a Berqua...

after all,Napolitano is considering exempting Muslim chicks from any screening...
rfenst Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,473
[quote=chiefburg] Common sense must be inserted into this somewhere.[quote] Herfing


Chief,

I hope you understand that I have been just "playing the devils advocate" here to draw out people's experiences and ideas...

Anyhow, a certain number of people are probably looked at much harder- on a purely random basis- where the officer has no discretion. For example, every 18th person or every 11th male and 19th female, or whatever. This is what is done to make drunk driving roadblock stops legal. The Supreme Court has determined that such a stop does not involve any officer discretion or profiling and, therefore, is lawful because the intrusion of/on the driver of each vehicle "de minimmis". Sort of a balancing test according to some...

As to old people, pilots, people in military attire and the like, think about what you would do if you were a terrorist and you knew these people simply never got stopped- you would disguise yourself as one of them or use one of them to get whatever you need to on board. So, as a matter of precaution, there may be a valid reason for publicly giving a harder look at people such as yourself. Think about it a bit...

As to the airlines, they are the very last people I want as the last line of security. We can't even trust them to take off or arive on time...its own standards. Etc., Etc.

FWIW, my father, who was pretty much wheel chair bound with Parkinsons, was searched all the time. he would have been a great type of person to "plant something on" or agree to mething on himself, if he were a terrorist.

I really don't know how succesful TSA is. Is their success to be measured by the number of people they stop or catch? Or, is it measured by some form of deterence or degree of societal sense of safety?

Who knows. Time to serach the net about the legal technicalities of all of this...



donutboy2000 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 11-20-2001
Posts: 25,000
wheelrite wrote:
I touch my junk regularly...



wheelrite Offline
#1 Posted : Sat, Nov 13 2010, 7:17 AM
Quote
Herf-A-Holic
Joined: 10/31/2006
Posts: 25,706

5 Martinis last night.
Had sex ,don't really remember much of it.



:-&
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
fly el al

they know what they are doing and why/ plan an extra hour and plan on arriving at your destination.
HockeyDad Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,213
RICKAMAVEN wrote:
fly el al

they know what they are doing and why/ plan an extra hour and plan on arriving at your destination.




The problem with that is you can only go to Israel.
gringococolo Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 02-04-2006
Posts: 4,626
There are only two types of people that object to body scanners:


1. Terrorists

2. Men with small penises and fat women.


BODY IMAGE OUTRAGE!!


I don't object to body scanners at all. Hell, I'll strip nekid in line if it would get me to the gate faster and safer. Buncha prudes!!
topper7788 Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 06-21-2006
Posts: 4,719
If they want to look at my privates it's fine with me.... Just for begeebizzes sake LADIES would you PLEASE learn what you can and cannot bring trough screening, and maybe a special line for families..... And genius, take off your f'n SHOES like your supposed too!!!!!! Jeez it's like half the planet has never flown before when you go through security... Now this sh*t, stop bitching we have a plane to catch!!!!

Oh, and for the most part I agree 98.2% of this stuff seems to be for show and is probably not making flying much safer. if body scans actually make it safer, then DO IT TWICE....
gringococolo Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 02-04-2006
Posts: 4,626
It's a deterant not an "I got you" measure. It mostly just narrows the ways that a terrorist can inflict damage. All this fussing is just making those basturds happy anyway. I don't give them the satisfaction of getting all worked up about a body scan. I have an FAA badge that will get me on the tarmac of the airport. I still get the screening.
rfenst Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,473
gringococolo wrote:
It's a deterant not an "I got you" measure. It mostly just narrows the ways that a terrorist can inflict damage. All this fussing is just making those basturds happy anyway. I don't give them the satisfaction of getting all worked up about a body scan. I have an FAA badge that will get me on the tarmac of the airport. I still get the screening.



Of course you do . You are a suspicous looking Mo Fo!
chiefburg Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 01-31-2005
Posts: 7,384
gringococolo wrote:
It's a deterant not an "I got you" measure. It mostly just narrows the ways that a terrorist can inflict damage. All this fussing is just making those basturds happy anyway. I don't give them the satisfaction of getting all worked up about a body scan. I have an FAA badge that will get me on the tarmac of the airport. I still get the screening.

It's funny you mention getting screened yourself (which makes sense). I was doing some research a month or so back (online) and wondered across one of the airline pilot blogs. These pilots were talking about the body screening and other security methods. In fact, they talked extensively about how airport security varies by airport. There are some that do virtually nothing and others that nearly strip folks naked. Also, they commented on how they are screened (as pilots) when many other airport workers don't get any screening. Part of their conversation focused on how food service and other folks can drive/deliver on the tarmac without any screening and how easy it would be to bring contraband onboard.

I'm sure the terrorists can figure out which airports to avoid and where we are most vulnerable. After all, all they have to do is read the blogs on the internet like I did!
Charlie Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
We need to PROFILE passengers and to get tougher on screening as well....no room for error in this business!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,633
They're going to start offering free pap smears and prostate exams in order to get people to use these fine government programs.

Next up for the kiddies...free abortions.

ANYTHING for the sake of safety.

Remember when it used to be "Do it for the kids"?

Papers please.

America is turning into a police state and people are willing to let it go that way too.

I highly encourage all of you to watch "V For Vendetta" again. It's happening.
TMCTLT Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
I think we've got a WINNER!!!!!!!



A great alternative to body scanners at airports[/b]
The Israelis are developing an airport security device that eliminates the privacy concerns that come with full-body scanners at the airports.

It's a booth you can step into that will not X-ray you, but will detonate any explosive device you may have on you. They see this as a win-win for everyone, with none of the whining about racial profiling. It also would eliminate the costs of long and expensive trials. Justice would be swift. Case closed!

You're in the airport terminal and you hear a muffled explosion. Shortly thereafter an announcement comes over the PA system: "Attention standby passengers — we now have a seat available on flight number ____. Shalom."
ZRX1200 Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,682
Rickmaven, the Israelis PROFILE!!

ACLU won't let us......
plinytheelder Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 10-24-2006
Posts: 8,838
ZRX1200 wrote:
Rickmaven, the Israelis PROFILE!!

ACLU won't let us......


No they don't.
They have been trained to look at people and see the mannerisms the terrorists can't hide when they are about to do harm. They observe everybody systematically and look for their "tells". Thats not "PROFILING", they do it to everyone.

What none of you guys ever mention is one fact that has amazed me. The "shoe-bomber" came here from LHR. Thats Heathrow in England. Because of him, we all get to take our shoes off so the dumbazzes can verify we don't have anything hidden in them.
Now for the amazing part... Leaving Heathrow, you DON'T have to take your shoes off! WTF is up with that!

I would tell you what I really feel about TSA, but I'm flying down to Vegas this afternoon and don't want to draw too much unwarranted attention from them. Suffice to say I would not be very sympathetic to their work environment and duties.
chiefburg Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 01-31-2005
Posts: 7,384
Profiling and/or looking for mannerisms of terrorists is certainly better than what we have now. Frankly, many of the TSA folks I've had the pleasure dealing with are probably lucky to have a job. In fact, they probably got the TSA job because they couldn't find work elsewhere. Our current system doesn't do anything except make some people feel safe.

I know TSA has failed the test on many occasions when planted agents manage to get stuff through security checkpoints without detection. Yet, my 5 oz toothpaste that has less than 1 oz left is a security threat and must be confiscated. They fear the toothpaste so much they toss it in a bin right next to them and leave it until the bin is full. Yep, it's dangerous stuff.....

Seems that between the wife and I, we could fill about 8 3-oz bottles each and put them in our 1-quart ziplock bags and take them on the plane and merge them all together again. Yet, my 1-oz of leftover toothpaste is a major problem. I somehow feel that Proctor and Gamble (and others) are in cahoots with TSA and enjoy the confiscation of personal products just so we can buy them in the airport (which makes a profits) or on the distent end. Either way, these manufactures must be in hog heaven with TSA and its tactics!!
MCAddict Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 12-10-2007
Posts: 2,117
Prediction: This going to cause more people to hit the road in a car rather than flying.
Prediction: There's going to be a spike in new cars sales.
Prediction: Gas prices are going to skyrocket for some mysterious reason.Gonz
gringococolo Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 02-04-2006
Posts: 4,626
So has Robert taken over from jaderose as the "monkey inciter?" Lot's of dancing monkeys on this thread!!!!!!!!


Ooooo ooo oooo, eeee eeeee eeeee. [beats chest loudly]
rfenst Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,473
gringococolo wrote:
So has Robert taken over from jaderose as the "monkey inciter?" Lot's of dancing monkeys on this thread!!!!!!!!


Ooooo ooo oooo, eeee eeeee eeeee. [beats chest loudly]



Huh? Who are the monkies? Think
DrMaddVibe Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,633
Here they come....



Walkin' down the street...



We get the funniest looks...



From everyone we meet...


"Remember, remember, the 5th of November

The Gunpowder Treason and plot ;

I know of no reason why Gunpowder Treason

Should ever be forgot.

Guy Fawkes, Guy Fawkes,

'Twas his intent.

To blow up the King and the Parliament.

Three score barrels of powder below.

Poor old England to overthrow.

By God's providence he was catch'd,

With a dark lantern and burning match

Holloa boys, Holloa boys, let the bells ring

Holloa boys, Holloa boys, God save the King!

Hip hip Hoorah !

Hip hip Hoorah !

A penny loaf to feed ol'Pope,

A farthing cheese to choke him.

A pint of beer to rinse it down,

A **** of sticks to burn him.

Burn him in a tub of tar,'

Burn him like a blazing star.

Burn his body from his head,

Then we'll say: ol'Pope is dead."

HockeyDad Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,213
TSA employees are the equivalent of McDonalds employees with band-aids over their tattoos and piercings.

The place to be is selling the multimillion dollar x-ray machines, body scanners, and explosive sniffers. It is a huge business. Now we need to sell them for packages as well. It is a growth industry thanks to a couple of toner cartridges from Yemen.


The best time to fly was right after 9/11. There were nothing but business travelers and the National Guard manned the security checkpoints with orders to shoot morons. (I would like to believe they had those orders)

By the way, TSA is better than what we had before 9-11 when the airlines ran it themselves.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,633
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