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Kawak Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 11-26-2007
Posts: 4,025
America loves it when he's on vacation and not in Washington F'ing things up!

Obama loves taxes and the poor that want freebies:

A little story for rickamaven and dpolesmokers

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for lunch and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men ate lunch in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily lunch by $20." Lunch for the ten now cost just $80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to eat. So, the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20,"declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man," but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I got" "That's true!!" shouted the seventh man.

"Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for lunch so the nine sat down and had lunch without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore.

In fact, they might start eating overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.
HockeyDad Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
Why the heck would the rich guy even hang out with those peasants? The top 3 at the absolute most should be hanging out at a much nicer restaurant while the other 7 can go eat cake.
chiefburg Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 01-31-2005
Posts: 7,384
At the risk of being flamed, I am a supporter of giving tax breaks to the rich. It's those tax breaks that allow cheaper products and allow them to employ more people. I know many who would disagree with this but it seems like simple logic to me. The less I am taxed, the more I can return to the business, thus growing and employing more people.

What many fail to realize is the ripple effect tax breaks have. For instance, not only can the employer hire more employees, they can offer better benefits. As business picks up, it also increases shipping (employing UPS, FEDEX, etc, or your independant trucker), middlemen make more money and employ more, advertising increases which employs ad people, radio, newspaper, tv, etc..........

Need I go on...

Go ahead, flame away.......
dpnewell Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
Wasting your time Kawak. Lib minds don’t have the ability to comprehend such a lesson. BTW, the second example is short by a buck. Heck yea I'm anal. HA!
Kawak Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 11-26-2007
Posts: 4,025
dpnewell wrote:
Wasting your time Kawak. Lib minds don’t have the ability to comprehend such a lesson. BTW, the second example is short by a buck. Heck yea I'm anal. HA!


Yea your probably right. Lets try it this way so Libs can understand...

Suppose that every day there are ten men in the cheese line all ten are given 100 blocks of cheese...etc...etc...

hensed Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2003
Posts: 1,268
chiefburg wrote:
At the risk of being flamed, I am a supporter of giving tax breaks to the rich. It's those tax breaks that allow cheaper products and allow them to employ more people. I know many who would disagree with this but it seems like simple logic to me. The less I am taxed, the more I can return to the business, thus growing and employing more people.

What many fail to realize is the ripple effect tax breaks have. For instance, not only can the employer hire more employees, they can offer better benefits. As business picks up, it also increases shipping (employing UPS, FEDEX, etc, or your independant trucker), middlemen make more money and employ more, advertising increases which employs ad people, radio, newspaper, tv, etc..........

Need I go on...

Go ahead, flame away.......


Your my hero Applause
fiddler898 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,782
Trickle-down economics? How did that work in the 80s?
HockeyDad Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
fiddler898 wrote:
Trickle-down economics? How did that work in the 80s?



Perfectly!
jackconrad Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
Hey Remember Da Glass is Half Fool !
donutboy2000 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 11-20-2001
Posts: 25,000
fiddler898 wrote:
Trickle-down economics? How did that work in the 80s?



Trickle down economics brought down the Soviet Union !
jpotts Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-14-2006
Posts: 28,811
fiddler898 wrote:
Trickle-down economics? How did that work in the 80s?


Well...lemme see. We had the biggest, and longest-running economic boom pretty much ever since Reagan and his ever-reviled tickle-down economics were implemented and embraced (even by Bill Clinton).

We had two years of "trickle-up" economics from Idi Amin Jr., and it has given us a protracted recession pretty much from the get-go.
HockeyDad Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
donutboy2000 wrote:

Trickle down economics brought down the Soviet Union !




...and now Russia is stronger than ever!
Brewha Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
This “little story” is typical of neo-con misdirection:

The Tenth Man owns the restaurant and is making a profit daily. To offset the fact that he is paying himself and apparently subsidizing the others, he simply raises the price of the meals. And he does it at all of his restaurants and so does his rich friends. With the prices fixed, profit is assured, and the Nine Men (who are too wholly stupid to figure out what is going on) are free to fight over the crumbs.

In time they come to love the Tenth Man, for being so benevolent.
HockeyDad Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
Neo-con went out of the nation's vocabulary a few years ago.
Brewha Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
Thank you Mr. Webster. Do you care to share what the current terminology is?
tweoijfoi Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 09-22-2010
Posts: 395
Brewha wrote:
Thank you Mr. Webster. Do you care to share what the current terminology is?


What is the definition of sarcasm?
DrafterX Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,574
I heard 'gullible' wasn't really a word.... somone just made it up and stuff...Mellow
HockeyDad Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
Brewha wrote:
Thank you Mr. Webster. Do you care to share what the current terminology is?




There is not one. Neo-cons got tossed out in 2006, 2008, and 2010. They're toast.
dpnewell Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
Brewha wrote:
This “little story” is typical of neo-con misdirection:

The Tenth Man owns the restaurant and is making a profit daily. To offset the fact that he is paying himself and apparently subsidizing the others, he simply raises the price of the meals. And he does it at all of his restaurants and so does his rich friends. With the prices fixed, profit is assured, and the Nine Men (who are too wholly stupid to figure out what is going on) are free to fight over the crumbs.

In time they come to love the Tenth Man, for being so benevolent.



Typical Liberal bull****. I own a small construction company. I wish I could just raise my prices to cover rising costs, but it doesn't work that way in the real world. I have to compete, and in this economy, I've had to lower my prices so much, that I'm barely squeezing by on $20k a year. Hell, my one current employee, who is just out of High School, and classified as a "helper" makes more then me. But of course, I'm just a greedy capitalist, living high off the little man.
MACS Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,858
dpnewell wrote:
Typical Liberal bull****. I own a small construction company. I wish I could just raise my prices to cover rising costs, but it doesn't work that way in the real world. I have to compete, and in this economy, I've had to lower my prices so much, that I'm barely squeezing by on $20k a year. Hell, my one current employee, who is just out of High School, and classified as a "helper" makes more then me. But of course, I'm just a greedy capitalist, living high off the little man.


I'm no businessman, but if you only make 20k and your helper makes more than you... I think you're doing it wrong.
HockeyDad Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
MACS wrote:
I'm no businessman, but if you only make 20k and your helper makes more than you... I think you're doing it wrong.



Yeah but the helper does the work while he sits in the truck with the AC on while wearing a white hard hat.
Lumpa Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 03-04-2009
Posts: 377
#11
Reagan:
boucoup defense tech research followed closely on by lower capital gains and upper bracket tax cuts
=
very potent entrepreneurial atmosphere.

That race is pretty much run out now.
Now as return on investment for our tax spending we get the demand of more spending, and little else.
Lumpa Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 03-04-2009
Posts: 377
MACS wrote:
I'm no businessman, but if you only make 20k and your helper makes more than you... I think you're doing it wrong.


Hopefully the $20k is AFTER expensing a couple vehicles, half the house (home office space), health care, well funded 401k,6 meals a week, etc., etc.

God Bless America!
The system CAN still work.
Brewha Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
dpnewell wrote:
But of course, I'm just a greedy capitalist, living high off the little man.


No dpnewell, by what you said, you are a middle class working stiff just like me. We work hard and only get to keep some of the value we generate.

We are not rich, and even if we were, we still would not be in the owner’s chair. Those people are wealthy –
These are the people who set up and own the Federal Reserve (a private organization BTW) and the like. They own all the important assets and lobby for all the laws they need or want to get rid of. We are the workers and we won’t be getting a fair deal.

This idea that the government wants to take money out of the pockets of anyone who works and give it to anyone who is lazy is the kind of anger inciting crap that people just love. It keeps us focused on fighting over the scraps. A few are taking more and more wealth while standing on the backs of most everyone – An we should love them for allowing us to do a job that is worth $1 and only getting paid 30 cents.

If the story is about fairness, is it fair that 40% own nothing - zero, and 10% own 59% of the assets in the first place?
Yes – “that is God’s way . . .”
HockeyDad Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
The 40% who own nothing should just go out and buy something. Now they're no longer in the 40%. Stop waiting for someone to give it to you or someone to steal it from those that have it.

Brewha Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
HockeyDad wrote:
Stop waiting for someone to give it to you or someone to steal it from those that have it.



You seem to suggest that (or maybe believe) that being poor means you are lazy and waiting for a handout. Guess the poorest states, say Mississippi, must be filled with lazy people than?
In a lot of South American countries there is little or no middle class; there is the very rich and the abjectly poor. And most everyone is poor. Amazing that only 1 or 2 percent of the population is hard working is it not?

The truth is that the ongoing concentration of wealth in the US is accelerating, and it hurts everyone – well almost everyone.

Most Americans are hard working – at least in my opinion. When I travel to the different states and see hardworking people struggling to make ends meet and then work with the upper white collars people who are moneyed more than avarice . . . well, it sure looks like someone is getting screwed.


Kawak Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 11-26-2007
Posts: 4,025
Brewha wrote:
You seem to suggest that (or maybe believe) that being poor means you are lazy and waiting for a handout. Guess the poorest states, say Mississippi, must be filled with lazy people than?
In a lot of South American countries there is little or no middle class; there is the very rich and the abjectly poor. And most everyone is poor. Amazing that only 1 or 2 percent of the population is hard working is it not?

The truth is that the ongoing concentration of wealth in the US is accelerating, and it hurts everyone – well almost everyone.

Most Americans are hard working – at least in my opinion. When I travel to the different states and see hardworking people struggling to make ends meet and then work with the upper white collars people who are moneyed more than avarice . . . well, it sure looks like someone is getting screwed.




VICTIM ALERT! VICTIM ALERT. This is just another example of the man perpetrating lies to keep a liberal down!
HockeyDad Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
At some point in time Bill Gates was working 40 hours a week with MS DOS while someone else was working 40 hours a week stocking shelves in a store. Nobody got screwed but somebody got much more wealth while somebody is still struggling to make ends meet.

Somebody right now is working 40 hours a week on cyberintelligent robotics while someone else is working 60 hours a week build hours. Which one do we think has created a better opportunity to create wealth over the long term?

America is the land of opportunity but opportunity has never been just handed to anyone. If you are satisfied about being just a "middle class working stiff" then that is great. Just stop crying about those who aren't satisfied and will do better than you. You have no right to any of their stuff. If you are not satisfied about being a "middle class working stiff", get off your azz and do something about it. If you need a place to start......education/training.
Brewha Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
Bill Gate is a college dropout – He IS well connected and comes from a moneyed family. And he IS smarter than most. People have the gold key to the crapper handed to them all the time as a graduation gift– look at G.W.Bush.

You guys seem to live in a world that is on the level. Everything is fair. The poor are poor because they deserve it. It must be comforting. Well some men are more equal than others.

Spare me the “pull yourself up by your boot straps” crap. This is the real world and he who has the gold makes the rules. The real criminals hangout on Wall Street and steal from all of us in way that are not even technically crimes – because the lobbyist sell the “regulation is bad for business” crap.

I’m an Industrial Engineer – a working stiff. I see people taken advantage of all the time. Maybe I need a few rich friends so that I can have some of the legendary American fairness . . . .
then I can hire a few undocumented workers . . . .
DadZilla3 Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2009
Posts: 4,633
Brewha wrote:
Bill Gate is a college dropout – He IS well connected and comes from a moneyed family. And he IS smarter than most. People have the gold key to the crapper handed to them all the time as a graduation gift– look at G.W.Bush.

You guys seem to live in a world that is on the level. Everything is fair. The poor are poor because they deserve it. It must be comforting. Well some men are more equal than others.

Spare me the “pull yourself up by your boot straps” crap. This is the real world and he who has the gold makes the rules.


The reality is a little more complex than that. Bill Gates might have had more than the average Joe Plumber at the start, but he wouldn't have made it to the multi-billionaire club if it weren't for his ingenuity and business smarts. Plus a lot of hard work. Warren Buffett may have been the son of a businessman and politician but that didn't earn him the moniker of 'The Sage of Omaha' and the third largest bank balance on planet earth.

I know a local guy who started out with jack squat out of high school who now owns a marina and a slew of car washes. I also know guys who started out fairly well off who couldn't write you a good check for $100.

For the most part, your life is what you make of it.
HockeyDad Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
The victimist never takes responsibility and always seeks to blame someone else.

It is the government....
It is Wall Street...
It is the wealthy....
It is the silver spoon children of the wealthy....
The deck is stacked against the victimist always....

Yes, some people are born into situations with more advantage and wealth. If you look hard enough, somewhere in that family tree you will find the point where someone made it all happen with hard work, ingenuity, and maybe a little luck.

If you are happy as an industrial engineer and a working stiff, that is great. If you are not, look for ways to improve the situation. Finding rich friends so you can leach off them is not a solution. Looking for handouts does not have much chance of success. Some people are happy digging ditches and some are happy being CEOs of Fortune 500 companies.

In the meantime, don't be pissed that my Palestinian neighbor owns two convenience stores, works 70 hours a week, a drives a new truck that he paid off with cash. You have no claim against his wealth and he had absolutely no advantages along the way.

Every day new immigrants arrive in the USA, start new opportunities, start new businesses, and leave the existing victimists in their dust. The American dream lives.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,541
HockeyDad wrote:
Every day new immigrants arrive in the USA, start new opportunities, start new businesses, and leave the existing victimists in their dust. The American dream lives.



Ahem...not everyone gets interest free loans. ESPECIALLY those actually born here!!!
HockeyDad Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Ahem...not everyone gets interest free loans. ESPECIALLY those actually born here!!!



That is what the "Obama Cone Of Protection" is for.....interest free loans!

Wait, wait.....


There is no "Obama Cone of Protection"


Brewha, dust yourself off and get to work. Do it for President Obama.
Kawak Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 11-26-2007
Posts: 4,025
HockeyDad wrote:
That is what the "Obama Cone Of Protection" is for.....interest free loans!

Wait, wait.....


There is no "Obama Cone of Protection"


Brewha, dust yourself off and get to work. Do it for President Obama.



Isn't it just easier to say "poor me"?
dsmokers Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2010
Posts: 569
So who is paying HockeyDad to be the voice of the machine? Damn!
Kawak Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 11-26-2007
Posts: 4,025
dsmokers wrote:
So who is paying HockeyDad to be the voice of the machine? Damn!


The rich! While sounding like a voice of reason HD is really a Liberal blogger that comes on this board thanks to the taxes of the rich. He spews their views and while he hates them all it beats real work.
Brewha Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
HockeyDad wrote:
Brewha, dust yourself off and get to work. Do it for President Obama.



Thanks HD, but I am not dusty. I may not be fully living the American Dream – but that is likely because I am awake.

Your neighbor is a working stiff just like me. He is not wealthy. He is doing OK, so good for him. If you would count him as wealthy, than I don’t think you understand what wealth is.

Always remember –
When you see a rich man he earned it.
When you see a poor man he deserves it.
Never doubt your faith or have faith in your doubts, because a questioning mind is an unhappy one.
And Liberalism means stealing from the middle class and giving it to anyone who can prove they are lazy (no not like Robin Hood, he only stole from the rich).

Sleep well.
ZRX1200 Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,651
The downward spiral is making me dizzy.....
HockeyDad Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
Actually my neighbor is wealthy. He probably has over $1 million USD in assets but you wouldn't know it from looking at him. He doesn't act the least bit wealthy by any social status definition. It begs the question, what is "wealthy", "upper class", or even "middle class" because there are no real definitions.

He may be part of the faceless, nameless "wealthy" that are keeping you down. Just remember that if you are not happy, it is never too late to change your lot in life instead of just complaining about your imaginary oppressor and accepting it.






dsmokers Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2010
Posts: 569
^you sure do play that corporate apologist role well.
HockeyDad Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
Right. So now it is those big bad corporations holding you down again. Them, and the wealthy.

At some point it just becomes idle whining. Raising awareness on a cigar forum isn't going to pass for action.
dsmokers Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2010
Posts: 569
You should have sent that last message to DMV for HIM to post. Never worry though, it's all still bs, and it will still get their little fingers typing. You bring more disagreement on this board than all the Rickamavens in the world every could. The ultimate sh*t stirrer you are. Only like Bloody you are educated, and have an agenda. Nice. You've got them in your pocket.

by the way, nobody is holding me down. I think you have me confused with your other target.
ZRX1200 Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,651
Why are you so obsessed with DMV???

And trying to be the biggest chit stirrer is worse than being #1.

Scoreboard Le HD!!
Brewha Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
HockeyDad wrote:
Actually my neighbor is wealthy. He probably has over $1 million USD in assets but you wouldn't know it from looking at him.

He may be part of the faceless, nameless "wealthy" that are keeping you down.



No, no, I’m not oppressed, and your neighbor in not wealthy.

“Rich” would mean he does not need to work.
“Wealthy” means he has a controlling interest.

This is about the distribution of wealth in America:
Top 1% own 38.1%
Top 96-99% own 21.3%
Top 90-95% own 11.5%
And it gets much uglier as you proceed downward. Bottom 40% of population has 0.2% of all wealth.

The rich really do get richer and the poor really do get poorer. Because he who has the gold makes the rules. And that is the rub.



Next time you wonder what happened to your retirement savings, remember that you want to help the ultra-rich get even more of it.

This idea that we are trying to steal from those with incomes that are a little above average (like you neighbor) is a farce. And a well deigned one at that.
HockeyDad Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
The solution is simple.....strive to be in the top 90%.

The stats are great but have you ever figured out how they are calculated. What are the income levels of the top 90%. How about their net assets? Until you know those types of numbers, it is still just an imaginary target (that has all the gold and makes all the rules!) Based on your definition, you just might find that until you start talking about the top 5%, nobody is rich or wealthy. Who are "them"?

I'm not going to tell anyone who doesn't like their lot in life to sit back and have a pity party because "The Man", corporations, or the wealthy have oppressed you. The Republicans aren't going to come save you. The Democrats aren't going to come save you. The corporations aren't going to come save you. Hempfest hippie music festivals aren't going to come save you. Pitchfork wielding mobs overthrowing the evil capitalist system aren't going to come save you. The Wealthy aren't going to come save you. They might all tell you they're coming to save you but I wouldn't wait.

Save yourself.
ZRX1200 Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,651
^WE????

Both sides do this in different forms.
HockeyDad Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
"An earthly kingdom cannot exist without inequality of persons. Some must be free, some serfs, some rulers, some subjects." ~ Martin Luther
ZRX1200 Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,651
Not for HD.....slow typing apologies.
HockeyDad Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
ZRX1200 wrote:
Not for HD.....slow typing apologies.



Your punishment shall be no dinner. No gruel for you.
Brewha Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
“It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

So, you wanna keep the godless rich in power? Pray
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