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Here is how the right wing 'elites' are manipulating you.
FuzzNJ Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
In their own words. These are excerpts from a document entitled "The Integration of Theory and Practice: A Program for the New Traditionalist Movement", authored by Eric Heubeck with input from Paul Weyrich, the founder of Free Congress Foundation, financed by Scaife and Coors. It was scrubbed from their website in 2006, but preserved by others.

"It is not enough to say that conservative philosophy is more sensible than that of the Left. If we leave it at that, we will only attract "sensible" people to our movement. But "sensible" people do not go to the barricades, they do not make great sacrifices for a movement. And the experience of the conservative movement has shown this to be the case. We need more people with fire in the belly, and we need a message that attracts those kinds of people. As Plato said, "madness comes from God, whereas sober sense is merely human." We should keep this in mind if we expect our people to make superhuman sacrifices for the movement. We must reframe this struggle as a moral struggle, as a transcendent struggle, as a struggle between good and evil. And we must be prepared to explain why this is so. We must provide the evidence needed to prove this using images and simple terms. Putting the debate in terms of mere freedom, the "leave us alone" mentality, does not inspire apocalyptic fervor".


"Our movement will be entirely destructive, and entirely constructive. We will not try to reform the existing institutions. We only intend to weaken them, and eventually destroy them. We will endeavor to knock our opponents off-balance and unsettle them at every opportunity. All of our constructive energies will be dedicated to the creation of our own institutions.

"We will maintain a constant barrage of criticism against the Left. We will attack the very legitimacy of the Left. We will not give them a moment's rest. We will endeavor to prove that the Left does not deserve to hold sway over the heart and mind of a single American. We will offer constant reminders that there is an alternative, there is a better way. When people have had enough of the sickness and decay of today's American culture, they will be embraced by and welcomed into the New Traditionalist movement. The rejection of the existing society by the people will thus be accomplished by pushing them and pulling them simultaneously."

"We will use guerrilla tactics to undermine the legitimacy of the dominant regime. We will take advantage of every available opportunity to spread the idea that there is something fundamentally wrong with the existing state of affairs. For example, we could have every member of the movement put a bumper sticker on his car that says something to the effect of "Public Education is Rotten; Homeschool Your Kids." This will change nobody's mind immediately; no one will choose to stop sending his children to public schools immediately after seeing such a bumper sticker; but it will raise awareness and consciousness that there is a problem. Most of all, it will contribute to a vague sense of uneasiness and dissatisfaction with existing society. We need this if we hope to start picking people off and bringing them over to our side. We need to break down before we can build up. We must first clear away the flotsam of a decayed culture.

"In terms of our long term prospects, because we will be seen as a purely defensive movement, not interested in imposing our views on anyone, only interested in being left alone, we will surely gain the sympathy of the public. The dominant culture will see its life-force being sapped, and it will grow terrified. It will do whatever it takes to destroy its assailant. This will lead to the perception that the dominant leftist culture is empty, hollow, desperate, and has lost its mandate to rule, because its only basis for authority is coercion, much like the communist East Bloc. Sympathy from the American people will increase as our opponents try to persecute us, which means our strength will increase at an accelerating rate due to more defections--and the enemy will collapse as a result."

"Our movement must be highly provocative. The thing we have most to fear is that we will be ignored.

"Cultural conservatives must understand the predicament we are in. We must be willing to take measures that perhaps we would be unwilling to take under different, more ideal circumstances....."

"We must perform a brutally honest analysis of what motivates human beings. We must understand what makes them tick, whether that motivation is attractive or not. We must channel undesirable impulses to serve good purposes...... It is a basic fact that an us-versus-them, insider-versus-outsider mentality is a very strong motivation in human life. For better or for worse, this has to be recognized and taken advantage of for the good of the movement....


"This is not to discount the importance of reminding ourselves on a regular basis why we ought to hate leftist ideology, in order to keep ourselves motivated to better fight it. But we must be aware that this is what we are doing as we do it--such propaganda must be seen as a catalyst for action, not a substitute for action."


"Movement Must Serve as a Force of Social Intimidation in Its Intermediate Stage

"We must create a countervailing force that is just as adept as the Left at intimidating people and institutions that are used as tools of left-wing activism but are not ideologically committed, such as Hollywood celebrities, multinational corporations, and university administrators. We must be feared, so that they will think twice before opening their mouths."

"There will be three main stages in the unfolding of this movement. The first stage will be devoted to the development of a highly motivated elite able to coordinate future activities. The second stage will be devoted to the development of institutions designed to make an impact on the wider elite and a relatively small minority of the masses. The third stage will involve changing the overall character of American popular culture.

"We will initially operate according to the belief that it is more important to win over the elites (or create a new, better one) than to build up a mass movement. Furthermore, it is more important to have a few impassioned members than a large number of largely indifferent members. The amount of energy, élan, and self-assurance that we are able to inculcate in the leaders of our movement will ultimately determine its success or failure.

"...The strong appeal of a feeling of exclusivity and superiority will give our members a reason to endure the slings and arrows of popular disapproval.

"The New Traditionalist movement will appeal to the masses, but not immediately. The ideas of the masses never come from the masses. To the extent that the masses are more conservative than the elites, this is primarily because the masses have a long collective memory, and they still value the beliefs articulated by a long-lost elite. The conservative instincts of the American people will continue to erode unless a new elite is formed to refresh that memory.

"We must recognize that literature and philosophy do not appeal to the masses. This is why we must develop ways to spread our philosophy using non-rational means--especially the moving image......

"......if the intended audience is made up of people who do not already agree, they most likely will not be reading such a specialized publication, but rather reading a newspaper or watching television news, or more likely, they will not follow public affairs at all."
robertknyc Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2003
Posts: 5,475
Guess he's not done with CBID.
chiefburg Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 01-31-2005
Posts: 7,384
Sounds pretty reasonable to me. Did you find something wrong with this Fuzz? This is good stuff and I haven't seen it before. As such, I appreciate you digging it up and posting. America is crumbling and it's the Left's fault. Conservatives do need to take over.

Thanks!
HockeyDad Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
In other news, the Warriors beat the Clippers 122-112.
Kawak Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 11-26-2007
Posts: 4,025
Resistance is futile fuzz!
snowwolf777 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 06-03-2000
Posts: 4,082
Please repost in 72-point red capital letters so I can read it.
FuzzNJ Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
I realize that whatever I post here will be immediately dismissed by everyone here, even by people who don't read it. I find it interesting that this kind of propaganda is just fine with you. The plan calls for these new 'elites' to go on tv and radio to push the ideas relentlessly to make the 'masses' follow and do the more violent and dirty work the 'elites' wouldn't do.

They actually say that the masses don't come up with these ideas by themselves, read Tea Party. Total manipulation, making you think the idea came from you, but it didn't, and they actually spelled out the entire plan for you to read, and still, nothing to see here.

"We will initially operate according to the belief that it is more important to win over the elites (or create a new, better one) than to build up a mass movement. Furthermore, it is more important to have a few impassioned members than a large number of largely indifferent members.

The ideas of the masses never come from the masses. The conservative instincts of the American people will continue to erode unless a new elite is formed to refresh that memory.

"We must recognize that literature and philosophy do not appeal to the masses. This is why we must develop ways to spread our philosophy using non-rational means--especially the moving image......"
jackconrad Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
(\ /)
(.’.’.)
(")_(") Yes we all have super secret meetings with people we never heard of before. I mean C'mon who listens to the people ? Mr. National Healthcare or Mrs. Green Geenes Pelosi?
FuzzNJ Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
jackconrad wrote:
(\ /)
(.’.’.)
(")_(") Yes we all have super secret meetings with people we never heard of before.



Yes, that's EXACTLY what I said. /sigh
jackconrad Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
(\ /)
(.’.’.)
(")_(")Shhhhh! They could be listening !
leonardo Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2007
Posts: 911
Thanks for posting that. I was wondering how they were doing it.
wheelrite Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
Fuzz,what are you cooking for the Commune today ?
Brewha Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
A broader truth is that those in power rule the masses through many tools; ideology, emotional manipulation, entertainment, fear and so on. I think it has pretty much always been like that. And the masses seldom see it, and don’t what to believe it when they ‘do. So it goes.

Orwell ended 1984 on the note that the lead character “loved big brother”. Spot on if you ask me.

But then I would tell you that the difference between reality and fiction is that fiction is supposed to make sense . . . .
leonardo Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2007
Posts: 911
There is no way that a reasonable person could be a conservative. The only explanation is that the right wing elites are manipulating people. The progressives better get busy with some of their own manipulations before it's too late.
FuzzNJ Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
What's sad is people end up supporting policies that work against their own interests. Like tax cuts for the wealthy, repealing health care and no 'death taxes' etc. The masses that carry signs and rally for these things are not going to benefit from these things, and in most cases they will be hurt by them. But they have been convinced it is the 'moral' and 'patriotic' thing to do because it's labeled as socialist or worse communist. It's tragically and pathetically sad.
HockeyDad Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
People need to be manipulated but the Communist Manifesto has already failed. Think of this as "trickle down" manipulation.

Being elite.....that's where its at!
Kawak Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 11-26-2007
Posts: 4,025
It must suck not being able to think for oneself...Think

I feel for the likes of fuzzy, brewski and polesmokers...Boogieman! Anxious
wheelrite Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
FuzzNJ wrote:
What's sad is people end up supporting policies that work against their own interests. Like tax cuts for the wealthy, repealing health care and no 'death taxes' etc. The masses that carry signs and rally for these things are not going to benefit from these things, and in most cases they will be hurt by them. But they have been convinced it is the 'moral' and 'patriotic' thing to do because it's labeled as socialist or worse communist. It's tragically and pathetically sad.


Fuzz splain,,,

How does ending the Death Tax hurt anyone ?

How do tax breaks for the wealthy benefit the 50% of people who pay no Fed.Tax ?

There is already Govt provided Health Care for the truly needy.so how does killing Obama care hurt them ?

Fuzz all your stuff is talking points from the Huffington Post and other America bashing Lib sources...
Brewha Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
Kawak wrote:
It must suck not being able to think for oneself...Think

I feel for the likes of fuzzy, brewski and polesmokers...Boogieman! Anxious


If only we all had your worms eye view of the world Kawak . . . .
FuzzNJ Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
HockeyDad wrote:
People need to be manipulated but the Communist Manifesto has already failed. Think of this as "trickle down" manipulation.

Being elite.....that's where its at!


Because the Communist Manifesto is the only other option. Stupid comment HD.
FuzzNJ Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
Kawak wrote:
It must suck not being able to think for oneself...Think

I feel for the likes of fuzzy, brewski and polesmokers...Boogieman! Anxious


Interesting comment considering the topic and evidence presented.
HockeyDad Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
Boo hoo!

You need to get one thing straight. We control both parties. We manipulate everyone. You were manipulated into "raising awareness". Go ahead and rise up against the machine.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x205379
wheelrite Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
Fuzz,,,

any reply to post #18 ?
FuzzNJ Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
wheelrite wrote:
Fuzz splain,,,

How does ending the Death Tax hurt anyone ?

How do tax breaks for the wealthy benefit the 50% of people who pay no Fed.Tax ?

There is already Govt provided Health Care for the truly needy.so how does killing Obama care hurt them ?

Fuzz all your stuff is talking points from the Huffington Post and other America bashing Lib sources...


First it was renamed 'death tax' to make it sound evil by Frank Luntz. Second it only applies to estates worth more than 5 million. That excludes the overwhelming majority of estates. When the time comes, my family is fortunate enough to have to pay it should it stay at that level.

Secondly, people can't pay taxes if they have no money. The top 1% of people in the country hold more wealth now than they ever have. The middle class hardly exists anymore. It's not because of the lack of hard work, it's because of public policy.

As far as health care is concerned, the bill helps small businesses afford to give their employees health care, it allows children to remain on their parents policy longer which is great because the job market sucks and most starting jobs don't offer health care. And it stops insurance companies from dropping someone for whatever reason they want. Plus, more people with insurance makes a bigger pool. This is intended to reduce bankruptcies due to medical bills, the number one reason for bankruptcies in this country.

I'll ignore the last comment, it's just fluff and adds nothing.
FuzzNJ Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
wheelrite wrote:
Fuzz,,,

any reply to post #18 ?


Patience grasshopper. What, my life revolves around you or something?
HockeyDad Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Integration_of_Theory_and_Practice

The Integration of Theory and Practice: A Program for the New Traditionalist Movement was an American conservative political activism call to action published in 2001 by the Free Congress Foundation



It is weird how all of a sudden it is making the rounds again in blogs. It seems like there my be some manipulation going on here.

FuzzNJ Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
HockeyDad wrote:
Boo hoo!

You need to get one thing straight. We control both parties. We manipulate everyone. You were manipulated into "raising awareness". Go ahead and rise up against the machine.


This is true, manipulation happens all the time.

HockeyDad wrote:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x205379


I bet you think that's clever.
wheelrite Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
FuzzNJ wrote:
First it was renamed 'death tax' to make it sound evil by Frank Luntz. Second it only applies to estates worth more than 5 million. That excludes the overwhelming majority of estates. When the time comes, my family is fortunate enough to have to pay it should it stay at that level.

Secondly, people can't pay taxes if they have no money. The top 1% of people in the country hold more wealth now than they ever have. The middle class hardly exists anymore. It's not because of the lack of hard work, it's because of public policy.

As far as health care is concerned, the bill helps small businesses afford to give their employees health care, it allows children to remain on their parents policy longer which is great because the job market sucks and most starting jobs don't offer health care. And it stops insurance companies from dropping someone for whatever reason they want. Plus, more people with insurance makes a bigger pool. This is intended to reduce bankruptcies due to medical bills, the number one reason for bankruptcies in this country.

I'll ignore the last comment, it's just fluff and adds nothing.


Wrong on all examples other than you wanting to give up your inheritance,which should be voluntary .

Kawak Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 11-26-2007
Posts: 4,025
Brewha wrote:
If only we all had your worms eye view of the world Kawak . . . .


You may want to think about that. Anything else is way beyond your capabilities.
HockeyDad Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
What I think is clever is that you got manipulated into starting a thread about manipulation and you used a highly manipulative title.

Those darn right wing elites!
FuzzNJ Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
wheelrite wrote:
Wrong on all examples other than you wanting to give up your inheritance,which should be voluntary .




I'm convinced. Wow, your insight is remarkable as usual.
leonardo Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2007
Posts: 911
That's from 2001? WTF? If the right wing elites are so good at manipulating, how the heck did the liberal elite take over first Congress and then the White House? Or does it take 9 years for the manipulation to become effective? This just gets confusinger and confusinger...
Ragin' Cajun Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2009
Posts: 835
FuzzNJ wrote:

As far as health care is concerned, the bill helps small businesses afford to give their employees health care, .


I usually stay away from the polotics, but this statement is the exact opposite of what the plan accomplishes. I just finished a rather in depth CPE study of the health care plan provisions as I must be prepared to discuss them with my clients. The plan will actually force small businesses to drop the employer plans and pay the penalty. The funny thing too is the penalty per employee of not offering any plan is smaller than the penalty of offering a plan and having an employee use the exchanges. (2k vs 3k)

Another note, the 'cadillac' plan 40% penalty on the insurance companies that starts in 2018 will actually be imposed on approximately 60% of current plans if the government does not change the threshholds.

As to the OP theory, if you don't think this same mentality and 'plan' has been considered and used by the left you are either naive or stupid. Niether policital party has your best interest in mind, just their own pursuit of power and money.
wheelrite Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
FuzzNJ wrote:
I'm convinced. Wow, your insight is remarkable as usual.



With all due respect,Fuzz
Convincing you does not concern me.Preventing people with your Politcal and Social opinions from being in a postion of authority does concern me.

FuzzNJ Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
Ragin' Cajun wrote:
I usually stay away from the polotics, but this statement is the exact opposite of what the plan accomplishes. I just finished a rather in depth CPE study of the health care plan provisions as I must be prepared to discuss them with my clients. The plan will actually force small businesses to drop the employer plans and pay the penalty. The funny thing too is the penalty per employee of not offering any plan is smaller than the penalty of offering a plan and having an employee use the exchanges. (2k vs 3k)

Another note, the 'cadillac' plan 40% penalty on the insurance companies that starts in 2018 will actually be imposed on approximately 60% of current plans if the government does not change the threshholds.

As to the OP theory, if you don't think this same mentality and 'plan' has been considered and used by the left you are either naive or stupid. Niether policital party has your best interest in mind, just their own pursuit of power and money.



I do think the plan does not go far enough and it was a big sell out to insurance companies. From CNNmoney:

* By no later than 2014, states will have to set up Small Business Health Options Programs, or "SHOP Exchanges," where small businesses will be able to pool together to buy insurance. ("Small businesses" are defined as those with no more than 100 employees, though states have the option of limiting pools to companies with 50 or fewer employees through 2016; companies that grow beyond the size limit will also be grandfathered in.)

The Congressional Budget Office has estimated that the exchanges would ease small business insurance costs, albeit only marginally: premiums in the small-group market are forecast to fall between 1% and 4% under the exchanges, while the amount of coverage would rise by up to 3%.

* For the next four years, until the SHOP Exchanges are set up, businesses with 10 or fewer full-time-equivalent employees earning less than $25,000 a year on average will be eligible for a tax credit of 35% of health insurance costs. (Companies with between 11 and 25 workers and an average wage of up to $50,000 are eligible for partial credits.)

The tax credit will remain in place, increasing to 50% of costs, for the first two years a company buys insurance through its state exchange. The Congressional Budget Office predicts that the tax credit will affect about 12% of individuals covered via the small-group insurance market, lowering their cost of insurance by between 8% and 11%.

* Insurers will no longer be able to set rates or exclude coverage based on pre-existing conditions, and can vary premiums only by geographic location, age, and tobacco use.

These restrictions, however, would not kick in until 2014. Going into effect immediately: a ban on lifetime limits on coverage, and on "rescission" (canceling policies already issued) except in cases of fraud.

* Starting in 2014, businesses with more than 50 employees will be required to either offer healthcare coverage or pay a penalty of $750 a year per full-time worker. The coverage offered will also have to meet minimum benefits -- covering both a specific set of services and 60% of employee health costs overall -- or else employers will face additional penalties.

* So-called "Cadillac" plans costing more than $10,200 a year for individuals or $27,500 for family coverage (not counting dental and vision plans) will be subject to a 40% tax on the portion of the cost that exceeds the limit. Though the tax would actually be paid by insurers, it's expected that it would be passed along to plan holders in the form of higher premiums.

Furthermore, if the House amendments approved Sunday pass the Senate intact under the reconciliation process, some other small business provisions will change:

* Part-time employees would be counted toward the 50-employee minimum on pro-rated basis based on hours worked, bringing more small businesses into the group required to provide coverage.

* The $750-per-employee penalty for not providing insurance would rise to $2,000.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/22/smallbusiness/small_business_health_reform/
FuzzNJ Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
wheelrite wrote:
With all due respect,Fuzz
Convincing you does not concern me.Preventing people with your Politcal and Social opinions from being in a postion of authority does concern me.



You claimed I was 'wrong on all counts'. I'm saying you are full of it.
wheelrite Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
FuzzNJ wrote:
I do think the plan does not go far enough and it was a big sell out to insurance companies. From CNNmoney:

* By no later than 2014, states will have to set up Small Business Health Options Programs, or "SHOP Exchanges," where small businesses will be able to pool together to buy insurance. ("Small businesses" are defined as those with no more than 100 employees, though states have the option of limiting pools to companies with 50 or fewer employees through 2016; companies that grow beyond the size limit will also be grandfathered in.)

The Congressional Budget Office has estimated that the exchanges would ease small business insurance costs, albeit only marginally: premiums in the small-group market are forecast to fall between 1% and 4% under the exchanges, while the amount of coverage would rise by up to 3%.

* For the next four years, until the SHOP Exchanges are set up, businesses with 10 or fewer full-time-equivalent employees earning less than $25,000 a year on average will be eligible for a tax credit of 35% of health insurance costs. (Companies with between 11 and 25 workers and an average wage of up to $50,000 are eligible for partial credits.)

The tax credit will remain in place, increasing to 50% of costs, for the first two years a company buys insurance through its state exchange. The Congressional Budget Office predicts that the tax credit will affect about 12% of individuals covered via the small-group insurance market, lowering their cost of insurance by between 8% and 11%.

* Insurers will no longer be able to set rates or exclude coverage based on pre-existing conditions, and can vary premiums only by geographic location, age, and tobacco use.

These restrictions, however, would not kick in until 2014. Going into effect immediately: a ban on lifetime limits on coverage, and on "rescission" (canceling policies already issued) except in cases of fraud.

* Starting in 2014, businesses with more than 50 employees will be required to either offer healthcare coverage or pay a penalty of $750 a year per full-time worker. The coverage offered will also have to meet minimum benefits -- covering both a specific set of services and 60% of employee health costs overall -- or else employers will face additional penalties.

* So-called "Cadillac" plans costing more than $10,200 a year for individuals or $27,500 for family coverage (not counting dental and vision plans) will be subject to a 40% tax on the portion of the cost that exceeds the limit. Though the tax would actually be paid by insurers, it's expected that it would be passed along to plan holders in the form of higher premiums.

Furthermore, if the House amendments approved Sunday pass the Senate intact under the reconciliation process, some other small business provisions will change:

* Part-time employees would be counted toward the 50-employee minimum on pro-rated basis based on hours worked, bringing more small businesses into the group required to provide coverage.

* The $750-per-employee penalty for not providing insurance would rise to $2,000.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/22/smallbusiness/small_business_health_reform/



It's a moot point anyway..
After 2012 We'll have a Tea Party Controlled Congress and White House.Obama and his Marxist poilcies will be a bad memory blip in American History ,like Jimmy Carter,LBJ and JFK...Applause Applause
FuzzNJ Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
wheelrite wrote:
It's a moot point anyway..
After 2012 We'll have a Tea Party Controlled Congress and White House.Obama and his Marxist poilcies will be a bad memory blip in American History ,like Jimmy Carter,LBJ and JFK...Applause Applause



And that's another thing, Obama is nowhere close to being a Marxist. Last year American corporations made 1.6 Trillion dollars in profit, the most ever. If Obama was a Marxist, how would that be possible?
wheelrite Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
FuzzNJ wrote:
And that's another thing, Obama is nowhere close to being a Marxist. Last year American corporations made 1.6 Trillion dollars in profit, the most ever. If Obama was a Marxist, how would that be possible?


it's called "Incremental Change"

don't you listen to Glen Beck ?


btw,
Profit is not illegal like weed...
Ragin' Cajun Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2009
Posts: 835
Again, on the surface it 'appears' premiums could be lowered, but the reality is they will increase. The 40% 'cadillac' penalty will be imposed on approximately 60% of ALL current plans if the threshholds for imposing it are not changed.

Also, to date, over 200 companies have been granted exemptions from following the new guidelines. Instead of major corporations sharing in the burden of the increased rates for implementing the exchanges, it will fall completely on small businesses who will not be able to shoulder the rather large rate increases.
wheelrite Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
Ragin' Cajun wrote:
Again, on the surface it 'appears' premiums could be lowered, but the reality is they will increase. The 40% 'cadillac' penalty will be imposed on approximately 60% of ALL current plans if the threshholds for imposing it are not changed.

Also, to date, over 200 companies have been granted exemptions from following the new guidelines. Instead of major corporations sharing in the burden of the increased rates for implementing the exchanges, it will fall completely on small businesses who will not be able to shoulder the rather large rate increases.


Many Unions have been granted exemptions too,why ?
FuzzNJ Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
wheelrite wrote:
it's called "Incremental Change"

don't you listen to Glen Beck ?


btw,
Profit is not illegal like weed...


lmao, no, I don't listen to Glen Beck regularly. I have tuned him in on occasion. As Lewis Black said, he seems to have Nazi Tourette's.

And no where did I even suggest profit was illegal or not good, it would be best if you didn't put words in someone else's mouth when discussing an issue.
FuzzNJ Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
Ragin' Cajun wrote:
Again, on the surface it 'appears' premiums could be lowered, but the reality is they will increase. The 40% 'cadillac' penalty will be imposed on approximately 60% of ALL current plans if the threshholds for imposing it are not changed.

Also, to date, over 200 companies have been granted exemptions from following the new guidelines. Instead of major corporations sharing in the burden of the increased rates for implementing the exchanges, it will fall completely on small businesses who will not be able to shoulder the rather large rate increases.


Another thing to keep in mind, legislation is not gospel. It can be changed if the situation warrants to make it work more effectively.
wheelrite Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
FuzzNJ wrote:
Another thing to keep in mind, legislation is not gospel. It can be changed if the situation warrants to make it work more effectively.



Bad Legilation is just that,bad.It does'nt need to be tweeked.It needs to killed.Kinda like prohibition.
FuzzNJ Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
Wheel, still waiting for you to show me where I was wrong on all of my points in post 24.
wheelrite Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
It was the beginning of the progressive era, "The income tax had just come in, in 1913. So, the public was very interested in progressive taxation and the estate tax was a natural piece of that kind of system."


Significant opposition first appeared in the 1920s when Andrew Mellon of Gulf Oil tried to repeal the estate tax during his stint as secretary of the Treasury during the Coolidge administration. Then, in the 1940s, Graetz says that opponents started labeling it the "death tax" in a bid to gain wider support for the repeal movement.

HockeyDad Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
It is time to negotiate the terms of FuzzNJ's surrender on this thread.
wheelrite Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
Fuzz needs some new propaganda material..
Kawak Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 11-26-2007
Posts: 4,025
HockeyDad wrote:
It is time to negotiate the terms of FuzzNJ's surrender on this thread.


Can libs surrender if they are always in that mode anyway? Can't he just bow?
FuzzNJ Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
wheelrite wrote:
It was the beginning of the progressive era, "The income tax had just come in, in 1913. So, the public was very interested in progressive taxation and the estate tax was a natural piece of that kind of system."


Significant opposition first appeared in the 1920s when Andrew Mellon of Gulf Oil tried to repeal the estate tax during his stint as secretary of the Treasury during the Coolidge administration. Then, in the 1940s, Graetz says that opponents started labeling it the "death tax" in a bid to gain wider support for the repeal movement.



Then I should say popularized it. He tested the phrase, advised the Republicans to start using it and it was put in the Contract with America. Now it's used almost all the time to refer to the estate tax.
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