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Last post 13 years ago by bloody spaniard. 70 replies replies.
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big mistake
HockeyDad Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,134
So if Jordan contributes land for a Palestine and not tiny Israel, does that mean Israel annexes the West Bank and Gaza and anyone there now becomes full Israeli citizens?

I can see a flaw in the idea......
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
HOCKEYDAD

fyi


Arab Israelis

Israel is home to a highly diverse population from many different ethnic, religious, cultural and social backgrounds. Of its 6.3 million citizens, over one million, constituting nearly 20 percent of Israel's population, are not Jewish. Almost all are Arab Israelis, mainly residents from before the establishment of the State of Israel or their descendants.
The Arab Israeli Sector:

Although defined collectively as Arab citizens of Israel, the Arab Israeli sector includes a number of different groups - primarily Arabic-speaking - each with its distinct identity.

Muslim Arabs, the largest group, constitute three-quarters of the Arab Israeli sector and most are Sunni Muslims. Nearly one-tenth of Israel's Muslim Arabs are Bedouins, formerly nomadic shepherds. Christian Arabs form the second largest group in the Arab Israeli sector. Although many denominations are nominally represented, the majority of the Christian Arabs are affiliated with the Greek Catholic, Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches. The Druze, some 100,000 Arabic-speakers living in 22 villages in northern Israel, are a separate cultural, social and religious community. The Circassians, comprising some 3,000 people, are Sunni Muslims, although they share neither the Arab origin nor the cultural background of the larger Islamic community. While maintaining a distinct ethnic identity, they participate in Israel's economic and national affairs without assimilating either into Jewish society or into the general Muslim community.
Legal and Political Status:

Arab Israelis are citizens of the Israel with equal rights. In 1948, Israel's Declaration of Independence called upon the Arab inhabitants of Israel to "participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions".

The political involvement of the Arab sector is manifested through both national and municipal elections. Arab citizens run the political and administrative affairs of their own municipalities and advance Arab interests through their elected representatives in the Knesset, Israel's parliament. Arab Israelis have also held various government positions, including that of deputy minister. At present a member of the Druze community is serving as a government minister.

The Declaration also promises that Israel will "ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex" and guarantees "freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture".

Israel has extensive anti-discrimination laws. Moreover, since the founding of the State, the status of Arab Israeli women has been significantly improved by legislation stipulating equal rights for women and prohibition of polygamy and child marriage. Israel remains one of the few countries in the Middle East where women enjoy equality in rights and personal freedoms, including the right to vote and be elected to local and national office.

The only legal distinction between Arab and Jewish citizens is not one of rights, but rather of civic duty. Since Israel's establishment, Arab citizens have been exempted from compulsory service in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). This exemption was made out of consideration for their family, religious and cultural affiliations with the Palestinians and the rest of the Arab world, given the on-going conflict. Still, volunteer military service is encouraged and IDF service was made mandatory for Druze and Circassian men at the request of their community leaders.
HockeyDad Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,134
Rick,

That copy-n-paste isn't even relevant to the situation unless you are saying that you are in favor of a one-state solution and that Israel should annex the West Bank and Gaza and everyone there now becomes full Israeli citizens.

I'll support the one state solution, any other takers?
HockeyDad Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,134
Meanwhile protesters are gunned down in Syria, protests in Jordan turn violent, US defense secretary Gates visited Israel and told them they had better get off their azz and get ahead on the arab world turmoil, and a Facebook page now exists calling for another Intifada.

Israel's response to all this is to ask Facebook to remove the page.
jackconrad Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
lll
(_` )_('>
(__,~_)8
_YY_ Passover da Gravy Please..
rfenst Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,330
HockeyDad wrote:
Meanwhile protesters are gunned down in Syria, protests in Jordan turn violent, US defense secretary Gates visited Israel and told them they had better get off their azz and get ahead on the arab world turmoil, and a Facebook page now exists calling for another Intifada.

Israel's response to all this is to ask Facebook to remove the page.



No doubt Gates urged renewed joint peace efforts, particularly in light of changing dynamics created by recent Arab political upheaval. No doubt that he also urged restraint in reprisal for the recent torrent of rockets launched from Gaza towards Israeli citizen targets and for the terrorist bus attack in Jerusalem that killed and injured dozens. Do you have a cite for the twist for your "Israel isn't doing anything" spin on it?
HockeyDad Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,134
I didn't say Israel wasn't doing anything. They asked Facebook to remove the page. Facebook, Twitter and social media in general have been key to the uprisings in Tunisa, Egypt, Labya, and Bahrain and Israel takes the threat seriously.

http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Article.aspx?id=213886

After the five Israeli settlers were murdered in Itamar, the next day Israel announced that 500 new West Bank settlement homes were approved in retaliation.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/13/501364/main20042701.shtml

....and the Nakba Law was passed.

http://jta.org/news/article/2011/03/23/3086536/knesset-passes-nakba-law
HockeyDad Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,134
Not everybody was happy with the 500 new West Bank homes approved. Some wanted 1000 per dead settler from the attack.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/yishai-israel-must-build-1-000-new-units-in-settlements-for-every-person-murdered-1.348879
HockeyDad Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,134
Israel also deployed the brand-new Iron Dome anti missile defense system on Friday near Gaza.

This system was built by an Israeli defense company and fully paid for with US tax dollars. Obama is trying to appropriate another $200 million USD so Israel can buy more.

Each battery costs around $100 million USD and has 20 missles.
frankj1 Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
HockeyDad wrote:
Rick,

That copy-n-paste isn't even relevant to the situation unless you are saying that you are in favor of a one-state solution and that Israel should annex the West Bank and Gaza and everyone there now becomes full Israeli citizens.

I'll support the one state solution, any other takers?

I believe Rick's post is extremely relevant, though it does counter much of the picture you have been painting. It helps the readers understand what really goes on in that part of the world, especially if they have been forming their opinions based on posts likening Israelis to racist, ethic cleansing neo-nazis. Waldheim (check out his early years!) and Arafat planted that seed in the UN.

It allows the thought that perhaps only certain segments of Arab society are what Israel needs to be vigilant against and that if those segments adopt the belief system of mainstream Islam, a meaningful and trustworthy peace could happen. But silent, moderate, decent, peace loving Muslims MUST step up to the plate.

It also allows the less informed among us to ponder how life would be if the Arabs had control instead. No one in their right mind would dare say Israelis/Jews would have the freedoms guaranteed to Arab Israelis. Though Jews are not allowed in many major Arab cities, Arabs may enjoy the benefits of Israeli citizenship. Ask me about my Jewish friends who's family lived in Egypt for centuries.

It also does show that Israelis are a pretty sad bunch of Stalag guards, n'est-ce pas?
HockeyDad Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,134
Actually I've been talking about the West Bank and Gaza and Rick's copy-n-paste only deals with Arabs living in Israel.

So you are saying that you are in favor of a one-state solution and that Israel should annex the West Bank and Gaza and everyone there now becomes full Israeli citizens?

Arabs may enjoy the benefits of Israeli citizenship, right?
jackconrad Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
Traditional hatred between the decendents to the Philestenians drives their hatred of the Jews. What a shame mankind has never gotten over something that happened so very long ago..
HockeyDad Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,134
Samson and Delilah outrage!
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
HockeyDad


i can feel a sense of scorn in the "copy and paste" phrase

you can't win a case of libel if what you said about someone is
truie and plagiarism isn't plagiarism, if it is obviously plagiarized.

here comes another copy and paste:

"Reagan granted amnesty to 4 million illegal immigrants
In 1986 when he signed the Immigration Reform and Control Act
of 1986.

So what would be so bad if we granted amnesty to illegals
again? We already did it once.

Why do cons think they can scare people by claiming that a dem
in office would grant illegals amnesty? Reagan already did it."

israel encouraged arabs to stay in israel with full citizenship.

the conquered arabs are a deferent story. they might even be
considered illegal immigrants and need a blue and white card
to work in israel.

i don't know how many generations to turn americans into
completely ignorant people, but i believe it was a jesuit Teacher
who said give me your child until he is 7 and he's mine for life.

hitler used the same principle on german kids.

if israeli schoolbooks were used to teach the history of the
middle east starting with the ottoman empire's collapse

1914
Nov 11, sultan declares jihad on allies

1914-15
Ottoman defeat by Russians at Sarikam

1915-16
Gallipoli Campaign fails
Siege of Kut, 13,000 allied soldiers captured
beginning of Armenian massacures

1917
Baghdad, Jerusalem captured,Arab Revolt

1918–1922
French given a mandate over Syria and the British given one
over Palestine and Mesopotamia

Nov 1, sultanate abolished


because zionists helped the english during the first world war,
the balfour declaration of 1917 was written.

Foreign Office,
November 2nd, 1917.

Dear Lord Rothschild,
I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His
Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy
with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to,
and approved by, the Cabinet:
"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment
in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will
use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this
object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done
which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing
non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political
status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".
I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the
knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely
Arthur James Balfour


there is more to follow like the british anticipating the state of israel disarmed what they could find of weapons
israel had to defend themselves and how an israeli unable to import cartridges figured out how to convert lipstick cases into bullets, and how when irael bought some planes fro the good old usa, installed rear view mirrors so the pilots could see what was behind them.

jpotts Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 06-14-2006
Posts: 28,811
RICKAMAVEN wrote:


it's a shame hitler didn't win. the world could have solved the jew problem permanently.


And like your idol Soros, you'd be helping the Nazis stuff the remains of "your people" into the ovens.

That's what good little atheist-socialists like you do.
jpotts Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 06-14-2006
Posts: 28,811
RICKAMAVEN wrote:
HockeyDad


i can feel a sense of scorn in the "copy and paste" phrase

you can't win a case of libel if what you said about someone is
truie and plagiarism isn't plagiarism, if it is obviously plagiarized.

here comes another copy and paste:

"Reagan granted amnesty to 4 million illegal immigrants
In 1986 when he signed the Immigration Reform and Control Act
of 1986.

So what would be so bad if we granted amnesty to illegals
again? We already did it once.




Yes. Because the answer to fixing a previous mistake is to stupidly repeat it on a much grander scale.

It is little wonder you voted for a wannabe Kenyan dictator...
HockeyDad Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,134
RICKAMAVEN wrote:



israel encouraged arabs to stay in israel with full citizenship.

the conquered arabs are a deferent story. they might even be
considered illegal immigrants and need a blue and white card
to work in israel.






Rick,

So you are saying that you are in favor of a one-state solution and that Israel should annex the West Bank and Gaza and everyone there now becomes full Israeli citizens?

or.....

Arabs should be expelled from Greater Israel (including the West Bank and Gaza) to form an ethnically pure state.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
HockeyDad 67

i believe i had an option, frivolous tho it may be, but what politically
can be taken seriously, in any part of the world, " the conquered arabs
are a different story. they might even be considered illegal immigrants
and need a blue and white card to work in israel.

as long as there is a newt gingrich, or a sarah palin that can be considered
a serious candidate for president by anyone, i take politics with a grain of salt,
in spite of my cardiologist's advice to avoid salt.
JonR Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
OH BOY! I smell another peace accord in the making, but I lost count, would that be the 6,841 or the 6,842 peace accord.

horse Think


JonR
bloody spaniard Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
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