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I hate Illinois Nazis.

One question for you counselor, why is it that the legal system ALWAYS seems to put MORE emphasis in upholding the rights of groups and individuals like this while NOT recognizing that the families and friends of the fallen have the right to expect to some civility and understanding while burying their loved ones? If groups like this want to make their point have the Bastards address our Federal Gov. in Wash. as they are the ones who send our troops to do their bidding around the world!!!!

Here is one of my takes takes on what you said above:


First They came... - Pastor Martin Niemoller


First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.


"First they came…" is a famous statement attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group.




(And if anyone thinks this poem is really about: communism, unions, Jews, Christians or WWII, then feel free to substitute any ofther groups in our society or in history...)

Robert, I'm honestly having a difficult time discerning your point here. I am indeed trying to think things through a bit clearer rather than simply engaging in an emotionally charged conversation. And it does seem to me that my previous point is the case more often than not....

Hope you and yours are enjoying your Easter holiday

Paul

Pretty sure he's said he's Jewish, frequently. I hope he's enjoying the day as well though.

Maybe I don't understand your question, but I will try some more. The legal system is ideally designed to weigh the family's need against our current society's desire for Freedom of Speech. If a decision were to solely be made on the family's emotion, the greater good of our society's freedom of speech will get lost every time. We often need to keep the emotionally charged aspect of a disputed matter out of the decision, which is very, very difficult to do. We also need to focus on the exact, precise issues involved and not the "peripheral" issue, no matter how much they affect certain individuals' lives. As to limiting freedom of speech solely to redress towards the government, doing that guts our individual and group rights to express ourselves with one another.

Paul,

You did absolutely nothing wrong for me to forgive you for. All that you did was meaningfully wish my family and I well in the very best way that you know how to. It is not your responsibility to remember every-one's particular religion. Although we celebrate different holidays, you can wish me Happy Easter, Merry Christmas and the like every single time you wish to. It will never offend me because I know you simply mean it.

Robert

I got tired of reading some of the replies.


But will someone please actually explain to me how their right to "free speech" was violated. Robert???? any other of you constitutional scholars??



So if a cop pulls me over and I am delayed to a speaking engagement my free speech has been violated.

If I get my ass kicked for saying, "FuzzNJ is just the nanny high jacking his wife's computer". My first amendment rights have somehow been violated?

When my car got towed in FCucking OKC, was my free speech violated? Oh Jesus Christ, I better get a lawer and sue the stupid redneck laundry mat attendant that thought I was from Texas (rental car plate), and had my stuff towed. Did I mention that I think OKC is the most miserable city I have ever had an extended stay in..... twice.


Really, sometimes I think I am surrounded by idiots.

I am not a Constitutional scholar, but I have studied the Constitution in law school and took an advance course on freedom of speech. There are some very good, accurate and well written Wikipedea articles you can read about this stuff. There is also a lot out there on the Internet that discusses the First Amendment in less technical legal terms than the SCOTUS does.

Any how, you really need need to read the entire opinion from the SCOTUS website or Internet. Just automatically skip the citations so that it reads and flows better. That is the Constitutional Opinion and it explains the SCOTUS' full reasoning, based in part on stare decisis. If the are Dissents or Concurrences, read them too. Agree or disagree with it, is the ultimate law of that case.

Here are some "legal explanations":

As to the cop: No. Not if the cop pulled you over for a legitimate traffic infraction and was not targeting you specifically in order to prevent you from being able to speak publicly, as planned. On the other hand, if the stop would not have otherwise occurred or was made for the purpose of delaying you or preventing you from speaking, the stop is "pretextual" and the Fourth Amendment becomes a part of the mix. Your First Amendment rights would likely have been violated.

As to getting your ass kicked: No, if it were Fuzz or any other private citizen who kicked your ass. Yes , if it was some governmental employee acting within the scope of his/her employment ("color of law"), or such a governmental employee condoned it or prevented the cops from responding promptly to protect you. Interestingly, this probably could dovetail into another freedom of speech issue known as the "chilling effect".

OKC: WTF does this have to do with the First Amendment?

No decent, sane American wants these people to communicate their particular message. But, from a strictly legal perspective- their message is fully within their (and our) rights t express, particularly if they express it within the boundaries of the law (parade permits, particular distances from funerals, etc.).

Why don't they say the funeral is Friday, and have it on Wednesday instead?
Do that a couple of times, then when they figure out what is being done, switch it to a day after...
Keep them guessing until they run out of money and patience.

Personally, I like the blocking them in tactic. Its simple and effective.